Got a Flashback unit!

[Justin42]

Went to Target this morning to check out the $14.77 Greatest Hits sale and they disappointed me (as usual) with their bad selection.

 

I was about to leave empty handed and noticed the girl was unloading a large display of Flashback units! They're getting primo space in the electionics department, 2-3 shelves with a huge "$39.99" price over them. I went up and asked if I could buy one now (I think she thought I was a nutcase) and I just got home with it!

 

Pictures and more info forthcoming -- but anyone who wants one, they're available!! (I'm in the Los Angeles area)

[Justin42]

Ok, after a tiny bit of playing, it is very obvious this is NOT a real 7800/2600. The gameplay isn't right. The sound is definitely not a real TIA chip (Desert Falcon's sounds are entirely off) and the graphics aren't right either. (Lots of flicker on Desert Falcon, Battlezone [2600] looks NOTHING like the real thing). Control is okaaay but the controllers are a bit weird.

 

Asteroids (7800) looks identical to the 7800 version but plays nothing like it. (you can steer your ship while thrusting, and the ship just moves wrong-- hard to describe).

 

The 7800 games look better than the 2600 games. The sound just sounds like an NES chip (Which is probably is).

 

Plus, there are too many cables and they're too short (AC, AV [which you can use your own, thankfully], 2 controllers, etc).

 

On the plus side, it's packaged VERY nicely and looks very professional-- it's really well done.

 

My initial impression is to be pretty disappointed by this. I'm sure they'll sell quite well to people who haven't played the games in 20+ years, but for those of us who play these games routinely on real hardware, this isn't the AV-port-enabled mini-7800 nirvana we were hoping for.

[CPUWIZ]

My initial impression is to be pretty disappointed by this.

 

Please go and return it.

[Flojomojo]

Awwww, crap. I was hoping this would be retro done right. Is it better or worse than the Jakks Atari unit? Or the same?

 

How are the controllers? They don't have paddle spinners built in, do they? Do they have the same 8-pin connectors we know and love?

 

I'll probably end up getting one anyway, simp that I am ...

[Justin42]

The controllers feel like mini 7800 controllers, but slightly worse-- I'm not sure if the one I'm using isn't right, or if they're just really cheap, but they don't work incredibly well-- it's hard to have complete control. Depends on the game. I was just playing Yar's Revenge and finding it hard to go straight up.

 

They're standard 9 pin jacks but it warns in the manual not to use ANY "legacy" Atari hardware on it. Since the Pause/Reset buttons are on the controllers they might have tweaked the pinouts a bit. There's no paddles, unfortunately.

 

I haven't really used any of the Jakks hardware much; I don't own any of them and have just played them at store kiosks, etc. I have a feeling that it's about the same-- close, but not right for those who know. (Although I did play Dig Dug I think and it was NOTHING like the original) It depends on the game-- Centipede (7800) isn't bad, but Desert Falcon is so bad it's basically unplayable (horrible collision detection, HORRIBLE flickering [worse than a 2600 game!]). Battlezone looks nothing like the original and plays kind of weird. Asteroids isn't bad but doesn't play the same.

 

In general, the 7800 games survived better, probably due to the fact (?? if they're using NES hardware) that the emulation hardware is closer to a 7800 than the goofy 2600 setup. But again, depends on the game, Yar's Revenge isn't too bad.

[Flojomojo]

Yars' Revenge is decent on the Jakks disc, too. How about Missile Command? I'll bet I could tell if it's the same soft/hardware if I could hear that one in action.

 

I ran out to 2 different Targets in search of this thing and ended up with 2 bargain XBOX games and the Star Wars Galaxies expansion instead. I suppose I should just leave it at that, eh?

[Justin42]

No Missile Command on the unit. I also noticed the official Atari website for the unit claims that it had a retro Atari t-shirt included in the gift box? No mention of that anywhere on the box, and no t-shirt included.

[mos6507]

Now it's time to keep an eye out for the 2600-on-a-chip system which you'd expect to see before Xmas.

 

That's going to be the real-deal!

[Flojomojo]

Then, grab the T-shirt that fans everywhere have asked for! It’s a retro-chic ‘T’ with the legendary Atari logo, included exclusively with this gift pack.

Hm. I didn't notice that the first time around.

 

How is Gravitar? I thought the Jakks stick nailed that in graphics and gameplay, but not sound.

[Curt Vendel]

Now it's time to keep an eye out for the 2600-on-a-chip system which you'd expect to see before Xmas.

 

That's going to be the real-deal!

 

Maybe Christmas 2005, certainly not this year.

 

 

 

Curt

[Agent X]

Ok, after a tiny bit of playing, it is very obvious this is NOT a real 7800/2600. The gameplay isn't right. The sound is definitely not a real TIA chip (Desert Falcon's sounds are entirely off) and the graphics aren't right either. (Lots of flicker on Desert Falcon, Battlezone [2600] looks NOTHING like the real thing). Control is okaaay but the controllers are a bit weird.

 

Asteroids (7800) looks identical to the 7800 version but plays nothing like it. (you can steer your ship while thrusting, and the ship just moves wrong-- hard to describe).

 

The 7800 games look better than the 2600 games. The sound just sounds like an NES chip (Which is probably is).

 

Plus, there are too many cables and they're too short (AC, AV [which you can use your own, thankfully], 2 controllers, etc).

 

On the plus side, it's packaged VERY nicely and looks very professional-- it's really well done.

 

My initial impression is to be pretty disappointed by this. I'm sure they'll sell quite well to people who haven't played the games in 20+ years, but for those of us who play these games routinely on real hardware, this isn't the AV-port-enabled mini-7800 nirvana we were hoping for.

 

WHAT?

 

That's a real bummer. I was really looking forward to picking up one of these units. I have the Jakks Pacific TV Games Atari joystick, and enjoyed it despite the botched sound and glaring inaccuracies in several of the games. I figured that since Jakks has raised the bar higher (with the Atari paddle and the recent Namco-based games), and that this was being released by Atari itself (not Jakks or another company) at a higher price point, that this would be a much more accurate reproduction of the 2600/7800 game experience.

 

Seriously, that's hugely disappointing, especially considering that it's selling for $40. Yeah, maybe a lot of casual gamers might not know (or care) that it's "NES-on-a-chip" hardware, but the Atari enthusiasts sure do. Heck, as an Atari 7800 fan, I'd find it insulting that they'd use "NES-on-a-chip" in a product that is purported to be based on the Atari 7800...that would be analagous to the makers of the Commodore 64 Direct-to-TV unit using the Atari 800 chipset. It would make me leery of buying another similar hardware product from the new Atari in the future, since this establishes a track record of them not being attentive to the details.

 

They did do an awesome job on Atari: 80 Classic Games in One! for the PC, so for software emulation, they might still be good...but I'm probably going to just avoid the hardware. I'll probably get the Jakks Atari paddle, but that's about it.

 

Just out of curiosity, what did they do to the paddle games like Breakout and Warlords?

 

Please post some screens of the games in action. I'm curious to see the similarities and differences.

[Brad2600]

Boycott Infogrames!

 

[Agent X]

Boycott Infogrames!

 

 

I just want to say that I'm not interested in boycotting Infogra...I mean Atari, or whatever you want to call them. However, I am interested in seeing them produce a quality product.

[Justin42]

Here are some pictures-- how do you make them appear inline? Do they need to be posted somewhere to use a URL?

 

Sorry for the low quality of a couple of the shots, I was taking them in a hurry earlier in the day.

 

Any specific games people want screen shots of? I'm going to try to hook it up to my PC with a video card so I can take better shots.

[Rob Mitchell]

That console and the controllers are tiny .. How is Saboteur?

 

Rob Mitchell, Atlanta, GA

[Flojomojo]

Awwww ... it's frickin adorable! I want it to be better.

[Justin42]

I've typed up some of my initial impression of half of the games. When you start it up, a cool little menu shows up (joystick controlled) that you select the game. If you select the 7800's cart slot, you get a short history of the system itself.

 

I have to say, playing it some more, I'm getting into it. I think I went in with extremely high expectations (I was REALLY hoping for a "real" 7800 in a tiny box, since it has AV ports and everything!). So when I plugged it in I was shocked to see some of the games. But I don't think it's all quite as bad as I originally made it sound -- that's not to say it's perfect. It's not. But given that all of these "all in one" consoles take liberties with the originals, I guess this was to be expected. I haven't played the Jakks games except a few times at stores and they were REALLY bad; in that sense, this really has been done pretty well.

 

So I offer this as a first impressions on a Sunday evening. I probably won't have time to get through the rest of the games tonight, and the rest of my week is a bit crazy, but if nothing else, I hope this will give a feeling of how the emulation is on all of the games.

 

--

Flashback impressions (part 1):

 

I should note, I didn’t have a 2600 growing up. My best friend did, but didn’t have a ton of games for it. I had a 5200 (no 2600 adapter) and lusted after the 7800 when it was announced (And was incredibly disappointed how it vanished). Finally getting a 7800 years later was an epiphany, I was really out of console gaming (due to having an ST and then a PC clone) but getting the 7800 was like a childhood dream come true. So in some ways, I have an incredible nostalgic fondness for the 7800 and was really excited the system was getting even a little recognition. But due to the fact I didn’t have a 2600, I don’t quite have a ton of playtime on all the games and may not recognize obvious flaws on every game. I’ll admit my lack of experience!

 

Console itself:

VERY sharp and well designed. It looks very sleek. Of course, I love the 7800's looks so of course I love this! Buttons on the console (Power/Reset) work very well. Says “ATARI FLASHBACK Mini-7800" on the bottom of it (as well as the controllers). Weird. Has 2 joystick ports, 2 RCA ports (video/mono audio), and power input. It’s very small and very light. Controllers feel about ½ size of original 7800 controllers, but do have the same basic “play” and touch to them. 2 buttons (1 per side), as well as the new “Pause” and “Select” buttons. They should have put a “Reset” button on the controllers as well and they’d be perfect (Hell, I’d love one of these for my real 7800!). I’m sure they didn’t want people accidentally resetting during gameplay, though. I do notice on same games the control is a bit off (I don’t feel entirely “in control” of my character, or button pushing doesn’t register quite right). Since it’s different on different games, I assume my controllers are fine and it’s a flaw in the emulation.

 

The Pause button works most of the time, on most of the games. It works on everything in this part of the ‘review’. I think I noticed it not working on 1 or 2 of the other games (Solaris?).

 

On the downside, there are too many wires (power, AV, controller cables) and it starts losing the advantages of these “all in one” console. A battery-powered option would’ve been really nice!

 

And c’mon– why no Combat??? It’s a 2 player unit with 2 controllers!! That would’ve been perfect.

 

All games are the 2600 versions unless otherwise noted. I’m also only testing these in one player mode, or just playing with one controller if the game is 2 player only.

 

Adventure:

One of those games that I never really played or got into. Looks ok, controls ok. I’ve heard there are secrets lurking in the castle....

 

Air-Sea Battle:

Never played the original. Heavy dithering in the sky (not smooth gradients, there are weird diagonal lines in some levels of ‘blue’), but it’s such a simple game, that isn’t too big of a deal. Controls fine, good addition for a system like this.

 

Asteroids (7800):

Looks almost identical to the original game (no engine thrusters, though). Sounds are a bit off, but not too bad. Control is different– not better or worse (although it is a bit harder), it just plays differently than the 7800 original. You can thrust and steer together which allows you to cruise around a bit once you get used to it. I played the original a lot but don’t remember being able to do that (I don’t think I’m being forgetful). All in all, it’s a good version of Asteroids, just different. I wonder how many consumers are going to get really confused when the line art (or BIG chunky asteroids from the 2600 version) they remember is totally gone? The 7800's 2 player modes (competing, team, etc) all seem to have survived!

 

Battlezone:

Woah, first major problem. Game looks NOTHING like the 2600 version (or the pictures on the box, for that matter!). The sky is blue, and the ground is... solid green with black stripes? Huh? Sound is really weird as well, it sounds like there’s a level of static over it. It actually plays quite well considering the jarring graphic/sound difference, although it feels a *lot* harder to me than the original 2600 version. I either need to brush up on Battlezone, or only experts need apply!

 

Breakout:

Remarkably good given no paddle control. Graphics aren’t quite as bright as the original (?) And the sound is wrong, but it’s breakout, and it plays fine. It’s probably as good as any digitally controlled version of Breakout, and possibly one of the best. Gets hard fast due to digital controls, though.

 

Canyon Bomber:

Never played this game ever that I can remember. Seems fine, basically, in that it plays, controls well, etc. Sound doesn’t sound like a real 2600 but it seems irrelevant on a game like this.

 

Centipede (7800):

This is the first game I played on the system and at this point, I didn’t think it felt right, but I thought the system really was a 7800. It’s a good translation, a little loose in the controls, but playable. Graphics seem pretty much dead on, sound is a bit different. Feels maybe a little slower than the original? And all of the original 7800 two player modes (competing, alternating, team) seem to be there. So, aside from some minor faults (is that line of garbage at the very top of the playfield there on the original 7800 version? I can’t remember now), it’s really pretty good.

 

Crystal Castles:

This is a weird one to comment on, since I think some people don’t think it should’ve been on a real 2600 even! But with that said, it is one of the more ambitious 2600 programs, so making it run on non-native hardware must’ve been a trick. I haven’t played the original 2600 version much, but this one doesn’t seem too far off. The jewels seem a bit smaller (and harder to see), the sound is off, but in general, it’s a good translation of a 2600 version of a classic arcade game. It’s pretty fun.

 

Desert Falcon (7800):

Oh geez, we were on a pretty good run and now this one. I don’t want to be overly negative, but this one shouldn’t have been here. It’s a bad translation of a 7800 “show off” game (at least in 1984!) which really shows the limit of the NES-on-a-chip the hardware’s running on. I remember the criticisms of this game that the game was a boring Zaxxon clone, but at least it was pretty. Well, here the graphics are totally wrong (along with a strange line of flickering between the playfield and scoring area) and incredibly flickery (worse than most 2600 games). The enemies are mostly the wrong colors, the sound is off. But if that wasn’t bad enough, the collision detection is entirely wrong – you can run into things you’re nowhere near, while enemies pass right through stuff (in the graphics) that they should’ve gone around. It also seems to get you into places when you die that just trying to fly away mysteriously kills you when you’re nowhere near anything. Sigh. One to avoid.

 

Food Fight (7800):

Now we’re back on track – as with most of the 7800 ports, this one survived pretty well. Graphically it’s pretty close (but not exact) to the 7800 version. As expected, the sound is wrong. Gameplay survived pretty well. The game “feels” different than the original (characters move noticably smoother) but it’s still a really fun game. In some weird way, this one may actually be better than the original 7800 version as it plays more to the strength of the NES. Feels harder than the original, though– the ice cream seems to melt faster and the chefs seem to pop up in the most obnoxious places, even on beginner.

 

Weird quirk: If you pause after eating the ice cream (As the food is adding up to your bonus), the sounds keep playing and the normal “PAUSED” indicator doesn’t show up.

 

(Ok, that's it for the left half of the menu...)

[Brad2600]

If you like the Flashback unit, I hope you will consider buying some common 2600 cartridges and a system.

 

The "real thing" is so much better.

 

(not that it's bad to buy the Flashback)

[Flojomojo]

Asteroids (7800):

Looks almost identical to the original game (no engine thrusters, though). Sounds are a bit off, but not too bad. Control is different– not better or worse (although it is a bit harder), it just plays differently than the 7800 original. You can thrust and steer together which allows you to cruise around a bit once you get used to it. I played the original a lot but don’t remember being able to do that (I don’t think I’m being forgetful). All in all, it’s a good version of Asteroids, just different. I wonder how many consumers are going to get really confused when the line art (or BIG chunky asteroids from the 2600 version) they remember is totally gone?  The 7800's 2 player modes (competing, team, etc) all seem to have survived!

It's been a long time since I've played 7800 Asteroids on the real hardware, but you can thrust and turn simultaneously using the joystick diagonals in the MESS emulation, so I don't think that's a change. Maybe someone wih a 7800 in hand could speak to this for sure.

 

I'm so glad the 2-player modes survived intact. Along with Warlords, those are the main simultaneous 2P games on this thing.

 

Thanks so much for writing up your detailed impressions. I'm looking forward to part 2.

[Justin42]

I'm gonna have to get my 7800 up tomorrow and do some A/B comparisons with the Flashback unit with some of my questions. It's quite possible that I just never discovered certain controls that are easier to do on the Flashback. (I usually use the gamepads on my 7800 and I never thought to thrust and steer at the same time!)

 

I do have a 7800 and have it hooked up most of the time (although I had to disconnect it to re-wire some other stuff), I've just never been in the position to get some of the early 2600 commons. The Flashback unit tends to have games I don't have, or haven't played as much (I tend to stick with the arcade titles on the 7800, most of which are licensed to other companies) so my impressions are a bit off from someone who may have played them religiously.

[sidcrowe]

That's just great. A product from the "real" Atari which is as artificial as anything from Jakk's.

 

Great job, grames. Just great

[Justin42]

To clarify the Asteroids point-- you CAN steer and thrust at the same time in "real" 7800 Asteroids. However, there is an inertia/thrusting issue that you can't just turn on a dime, you have to overcome the direction you're going.

 

In the Flashback unit, your steering while thrusting is much more direct-- there's no real inertia, you're just "driving" around (go forward, turn, etc). It's hard to describe the difference, but it is different.

[sidcrowe]

How can these people continue to fuck up games that can fit in a wristwatch?

 

"Defined a generation." No; not these games. Not these simulations.

 

Jakks can't do it, and neither can "Atari."

 

Is it impossible or something?

 

WTF?

 

[Albert]

Thanks for typing up your experiences thus far with the Flashback. I should have one in a few days and I'm looking forward to trying it out. The shot with it next to the CD is interesting, I didn't realize it was going to be quite that small.

 

..Al

[Gregory DG]

Wow, yet another disappointing Atari gizmo.

 

The thing is, those of us who play the real things on a regular basis know how terrible these things are. But people who haven't played Atari in 20 years won't know the difference. Worst yet, kids et al who haven't ever played Atari will get a distorted gaming experience.

 

But what does InfoAtari care? They'll make their bucks and lock out the homebrewers from writing games for the true systems.