Custom controller with Game Select and Game Reset

[Junie]

I now have a controller that works on the Atari 2600. Doesn't sound that impressive does it, there are instructions to do make a controller already. (By controller I am refering to a NES controller, and not a joystick)

 

My controller uses the controller's select and start buttons, they are wired to the Atari switches Game Select and Game Reset repectively.

 

I modified a regular NES controller. I went to work on it from scratch, and when compared to the instructions I found after my project was completed-- the basic instructions are simular. I also wired both controller buttons, B and A as the fire button.

 

So all 8 buttons, counting the 4 from the d-pad, function. The new controller uses a 15 pin connector, instead of the standard 9 pin.

 

I also had to modify my Atari 2600. I made a new controller port, player 1 (I will add player 2 later). The new port uses a 15 pin connector, with every pin wired to the Atari system PCB.

 

The original controller ports function normally, like there is nothing different.

 

The new controller port handles all 9 pins of the Atari joystick port, and the new added functions. The new added functions are TV Type (Color/Black and White), Game Select, and Game Reset.

 

This allows for controllers to use the functions, instead of you having to manually flip the Atari switches. So now I have room to create highly customized controllers with new functions.

 

I had to create a hole in my Atari to hold the new controller port. On the back of my Atari there is a big rectangular blank area, which works great. It has more than enough room for both controller ports.

 

I took a total of 15 pictures of my project as it progressed. I will later on create instructions with the images, so others can create the new controllers and new controller ports.

 

I will create instructions on how to create a controller to use the standard 9 pin, as well as the new 15 pin. Of course I will also include how to make the new 15 pin controller ports.

 

With the new 15 pin controller ports, I created them so many more new controllers can be used. Anyone else feel like creating new controllers? I plan to create many more new controllers, from various system controllers and from scratch.

 

And to think all this started so I can lay in bed and play H.E.R.O. without having to get out of bed to flip the Atari game reset switch.

 

Perhaps Albert and Alex will add my instructions (Created in HTML) here at AtariAge I plan to do many more hacks as mentioned, perhaps a new Atari 2600 section will be created.

 

(Weird I had to change my post because I exceeded the maximum amount of allowed images which is 8. Never knew smiley faces counted as a image, or if I use two of the same smiley it counts as two images not one..)

 

Here are some of the images below, so you can see what I am talking about. Let me know what you think.

 

[liveinabin]

Wow, what a great idea.

It might be an idea to move ALL the controls to the joypad (B+W/colour, difficulty etc.).

You could have a dedicated controller for Space Shuttle!

[Paul Slocum]

Cool! I used to have a Wico bat controller like that. I added a couple of buttons at the top.

 

I also made a big joystick with a button for up so Moon Patrol would feel like the arcade version. I blew out the I/O chip on my Commodore 64 doing this because it couldn't handle up and down at the same time!

 

-Paul

[beattheindierock]

Great idea. Sounds like an incredible amount of effort tho. I surely wouldn't even come close to having the patience to try that. So like if I sent you my 2600 and an NES controller to you could do the same to mine?

[Ze_ro]

I had plans for doing something like this too, although my idea was a little different. Basically, I was planning on adding a third 9-pin port that would carry all the switch information. Then, an altered controller would have two connectors, one of which would plug into the extra port, and could then control difficulty switches, reset and select, and so on... perhaps even the power switch could be done this way!

 

The only problem I see, is that you'd have to either disable the console switches (the difficulty, tv type, and power switches anyways), or find some way to "block" them while a controller is plugged into the port. The reason is that otherwise you could end up with a whole lot of bus contention if one switch is on and the other is off. You could end up with a half-voltage on a pin, or you might end up shorting things out. My solution would have been to make an extra switch on the console itself that would select wether the console or the controller set these switches.

 

However, due to school and general laziness, I never got around to doing all the soldering and all.

 

Oh, and does the normal joystick port still work fine? What if you have two controllers plugged in at once? (That is, one altered and one normal)

 

--Zero

[Junie]

quote:

---

Originally posted by liveinabin:

Wow, what a great idea.

It might be an idea to move ALL the controls to the joypad (B+W/colour, difficulty etc.).

You could have a dedicated controller for Space Shuttle!

---

 

Yeah all the controls are able to connect to the controller. I wired them all the controller port, someone just needs to make a controller with them. Space Shuttle, that is the game. I knew something used the Color/B&W switch, that's why it is hooked up as well

 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mr. Marcinowski:

Great idea. Sounds like an incredible amount of effort tho. I surely wouldn't even come close to having the patience to try that. So like if I sent you my 2600 and an NES controller to you could do the same to mine?

---

 

I thought perhaps after I have a few more controllers created for this 15 pin hook-up I'd offer the service to do it-- Plus sell the new controllers.

 

Actually if you want to pay for shipping of your Atari both ways, pay for the parts, and not hold me responiable for anything-- Sure I'll do it.

 

I won't charge you anything to do it, as far as me making any money. I'll just take the experince right now, and perhaps get some new ideas-- Concider it a Christmas present.

 

Also if you want I can modify the controller without the game select and game reset functions, and wire it to a standard 9 pin connector. This will allow you to have a controller, without the functions, but the Atari won't need to be modified.

 

E-mail me if your interested.

 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ze_ro:

I had plans for doing something like this too, although my idea was a little different. Basically, I was planning on adding a third 9-pin port that would carry all the switch information. Then, an altered controller would have two connectors, one of which would plug into the extra port, and could then control difficulty switches, reset and select, and so on... perhaps even the power switch could be done this way!

 

The only problem I see, is that you'd have to either disable the console switches (the difficulty, tv type, and power switches anyways), or find some way to "block" them while a controller is plugged into the port. The reason is that otherwise you could end up with a whole lot of bus contention if one switch is on and the other is off. You could end up with a half-voltage on a pin, or you might end up shorting things out. My solution would have been to make an extra switch on the console itself that would select wether the console or the controller set these switches.

 

However, due to school and general laziness, I never got around to doing all the soldering and all.

 

Oh, and does the normal joystick port still work fine? What if you have two controllers plugged in at once? (That is, one altered and one normal)

 

--Zero

---

 

The normal joystick ports work fine, just like nothing has been done.

 

There is no need to make a switch to make the player choose the new controller port or the original. I have throughly tested it.

 

I have pushed up on the joystick and down on the controller, the result is whichever is used last is what is done.

 

For example you press up on the controller and down on the joystick, the player will go down. The last controller/joystick used will over ride the previous one.

 

As for the switches and controller switches, once again no need. I used the controller reset and the system reset switch at the same time, no problems.

 

I have even held down the game select and game reset on the controller and the system and still no problem.

 

I have done many other various tests and nothing has shorted out, caused any problems, or anything that it was not suspose to do. So it appears that this does not cause any problems, or using both the joystick and controller at the same time, the controller buttons or system switches at the same time, or any combinations-- still no problems.

 

I have thought about running the power switch to the controller, but I haven't for three reasons. There is no need for it, as mentioned all 15 pins are used so I would have to use a 25 pin connector instead, and lastly I wouldn't feel safe running the power thru the controller.

 

Your idea of making the switches available as a additonal controller is a great idea. If I can find a nice project box, it would be a great new "controller" for the 15 pin.

 

[ 12-22-2001: Message edited by: Junie ]

[mvigor]

I think that a potential problem is not with the press-and-release type buttons, but with the on-off switches, like B&W/Color. If the console's B&W switch is in color mode and you flick the modified controller's switch to B&W mode, there might be a problem there. Have you tested this as well?

[Junie]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Matthew Vigor:

I think that a potential problem is not with the press-and-release type buttons, but with the on-off switches, like B&W/Color. If the console's B&W switch is in color mode and you flick the modified controller's switch to B&W mode, there might be a problem there. Have you tested this as well?

---

 

That is a interesting thought, on and off type switches. No I have not tested this, the NES controller doesn't have a additonal button to wire it to, and I didn't need it.

 

I will do a test of this and post the results shortly.

[Junie]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Junie:

That is a interesting thought, on and off type switches. No I have not tested this, the NES controller doesn't have a additonal button to wire it to, and I didn't need it.

 

I will do a test of this and post the results shortly.

---

 

Ok I have preformed the tests and it works perfectly, no problems.

 

How I have it setup is that you put the Atari Color/B&W switch on color. Then you can change it with the controller, on = B&W and off = Color.

 

The controller switch over rides the Atari switch, when the controller switch is on. When the controller switch is off it defaults to the Atari switch, which is Color.

 

I have also tested it by putting the Atari switch into B&W mode and setting the controller to on (B&W mode), it is B&W and has no problems. I played for a few minutes to be sure.

 

So in other words-- The controller switch will change the display to B&W when on (No matter if the Atari switch is Color or B&W), when it is off it defaults to the Atari switch.

 

To actually use the controller to change the display to Color and then B&W (And vice vesa) the Atari switch needs to be on Color.

 

So yes the TV Type (Color/B&W) switch for my controllers work perfectly

[Ze_ro]

That's good to hear... but it's a bit of an unstable mix I would think. Here's my reasoning: If you have a wire, and it's connected to ground at one end, and 5V at the other end, and the middle of the wire is connected to the switch, then the voltage at the switch would actually vary depending on the length of the controller cord! Not to mention that the cord is almost zero resistance, so you'd have a high current flowing through it (This may not cause problems over a 15 minute game, but I'd be careful in the long run...)

 

The fact that the voltage at the switch is variable, it's hard to tell what mode the switch would be in if both settings conflict. If it happens to be exactly at the threshold voltage, it might switch between each state (sorta like frying the system with the on/off switch).

 

I'd suggest measuring some of the voltages and currents with a multimeter... simple on/off switches like select and reset shouldn't cause any troubles... but the Color/BW switch may be doing some funny stuff that you don't know about (Of course, depending on your design, the stuff I mentioned might not even happen)

 

--Zero

[Junie]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ze_ro:

I'd suggest measuring some of the voltages and currents with a multimeter...

---

 

I have now measured everything with just a joystick plugged, just a controller, and both plugged in. I took measurements of the three different types I mentioned with various button pushes for each joystick and controller, and with them both pushed.

 

The results are very satisfactory

 

The highest measurement difference was 0.7m DC volts (Which is 0.0007 of one volt. m stands for mila which is 1000).

 

As you can see there is a exteremly small change, the 0.7m came from both the joystick and controller buttons being pressed at the same time.Usually the difference is even smaller.

 

In the case of the TV Type (Color/B&W) switch there was no difference. Once the switch is changed, it jumps from 0m to 35m, then it goes back to 0m It gave the same measurements using the controller switch, Atari switch, and both switches at the same time.

 

And as for the Game Select and Game Reset switches the largest measurement difference was 0.6m (0.0006 of one volt). That measurement came from both the controller Game Select and Atari Game Select switches being pressed and held.

 

So as you can see from the measurments there is no difference even remotely worth reporting. The Atari and accessories original and new will have absoultely no problem with the new controller ports and controllers.

 

Thanks for raising the question, now that I have taken actual measurements with my DMM (Digital MultiMeter), I am now very confident with my project.

 

(In case you ask why I simplifed everything, it is so other Atarians without electronic knowledge can understand the results.)

 

[ 12-24-2001: Message edited by: Junie ]

[Junie]

Bump

[Junie]

For everyone who is interested in doing the modifications as I did, I completed the instructions.

 

The instructions are in HTML format and include many images so you can see exactly what I talk about.

 

You can view the instructions online at my website or download a ZIP file containing the instructions and images.

 

Find out more about my instructions Click Here.

 

I will also modify your Atari 2600 or sell you one with the new 15-Pin controller ports, or make the modified NES controller. E-mail me for more details, I hope soon to have more information about this on my website.

 

If anyone reads my instructions and does the modifications, let me know what you think of my instructions and the new controller/ports. Post to this message thread or e-mail me.

[jsoper]

The BW/Clr, reset, select, difficulty, and joystick direction signals are all read by the RIOT chip, which keeps signals high through pullup resistors.

 

These signals go low when connected to ground through a switch or button of some sort. There is never any contention because there is no active drive high circuit, only a passive high pullup resistor.

[Junie]

quote:

---

Originally posted by John Soper:

The BW/Clr, reset, select, difficulty, and joystick direction signals are all read by the RIOT chip, which keeps signals high through pullup resistors.

 

These signals go low when connected to ground through a switch or button of some sort. There is never any contention because there is no active drive high circuit, only a passive high pullup resistor.

---

 

Sure the RIOT chips reads the input, but what are you saying? Is there a problem or are you simply explaining what it does? Either way what is the problem, or why are you explaining it?

[jsoper]

I was explaining it because the previous posters seemed a little confused and were writing long messages about something that can be explained with one phrase:

 

Passive pullup resistors, no contention problems

 

[ 01-01-2002: Message edited by: John Soper ]

[Junie]

quote:

---

Originally posted by John Soper:

I was explaining it because the previous posters seemed a little confused and were writing long messages about something that can be explained with one phrase:

 

Passive pullup resistors, no contention problems

 

[ 01-01-2002: Message edited by: John Soper ]

---

 

Many thanks John, for your explaination. I myself learned something from reading your comments. After looking up the defination of the word contention, it makes more sense to me.

 

In other words the pullup resistors take the joystick & switch signals and knock the signal higher to be read by the RIOT chip? So even with the switches wires to the controller, the signal still gets knocked to the proper signal heighth by the pullup resistors-- therefore no problems.

 

Correct me if I am wrong with the explaination above.

 

Have you thought about or did the modification yourself? Or what do you think about the new controller ports? It seems not to many people are interested, and I am just trying to get opinions.

[jsoper]

Hi Junie,

 

Thanks for the kind words, you're getting it.

 

I'll try to explain it better for others. A signal path can be connected to many things at once like drivers which are strong and pullups which are weak. If two drivers fight each other (one drives low, the other drives high) that's contention which is very bad. High current and possible damage.

 

If a driver and a pullup (or pulldown) resistor fight against each other, it's no problem, the driver wins.

 

In the 2600, the RIOT chip has an input pin for the GAME RESET signal (used as an example). The RIOT pin as an internal pullup resistor and will be high unless something drives it low.

 

In a normal 2600, the only way to make it go low is to push the RESET button. In your machine, there is a momentary button to ground which does exactly the same thing.

 

And yes, I have done that but in a slightly different way. I'm working on a merged console which will have ten different motherboards integrated together with common power supply, controllers, and AV jacks. The first part is done, combining a 5200 and 7800. One keypad button controls PAUSE for both systems, another button controls START, etc

John

[Junie]

quote:

---

Originally posted by John Soper:

Hi Junie,

 

Thanks for the kind words, you're getting it.

 

I'll try to explain it better for others. A signal path can be connected to many things at once like drivers which are strong and pullups which are weak. If two drivers fight each other (one drives low, the other drives high) that's contention which is very bad. High current and possible damage.

 

If a driver and a pullup (or pulldown) resistor fight against each other, it's no problem, the driver wins.

 

In the 2600, the RIOT chip has an input pin for the GAME RESET signal (used as an example). The RIOT pin as an internal pullup resistor and will be high unless something drives it low.

 

In a normal 2600, the only way to make it go low is to push the RESET button. In your machine, there is a momentary button to ground which does exactly the same thing.

 

And yes, I have done that but in a slightly different way. I'm working on a merged console which will have ten different motherboards integrated together with common power supply, controllers, and AV jacks. The first part is done, combining a 5200 and 7800. One keypad button controls PAUSE for both systems, another button controls START, etc

John

---

 

Thanks for the further explanation. If you don't mind, I'd like to include this information on my 15-Pin Testing page so others reading will know what is going on. Do you mind if I quote you, that way people will see that other people agree that this will not case any problems, and it's not just my opinion.

 

It sounds like you have quite the project yourself. I understand why you are merging the Atari 5200 & Atari 7800, it will give you access to play Atari 2600, 5200, and 7800 games-- but why are you using 10 motherboards?

 

Are the motherboards from Atari's or PC's? What purpose do they serve?

 

This will be quite the system, do you plan on building these for sell or will you give instructions on how to do it?

[jsoper]

Don't have to quote me, just steal it. It's pretty dry information anyway.

 

The ten motherboards are actually ten different console boards: 7800,5200,intv,02,CV,nes,snes,sega CDX,TG-16,Jag. By using plug-adapters and such it will also support: 2600, SMS, 32X, famicom, gameboy, jagCD.

 

Will not build any others (the first will take at least a year) or publish full plans, but will have a webpage and answer questions about it.

Cheers, John

[Lemmi]

quote:

---

Originally posted by John Soper:

The ten motherboards are actually ten different console boards: 7800,5200,intv,02,CV,nes,snes,sega CDX,TG-16,Jag. By using plug-adapters and such it will also support: 2600, SMS, 32X, famicom, gameboy, jagCD.

 

Will not build any others (the first will take at least a year) or publish full plans, but will have a webpage and answer questions about it.

Cheers, John

---

 

this sounds like a neat product, good luck with it John

[Junie]

quote:

---

Originally posted by John Soper:

Don't have to quote me, just steal it. It's pretty dry information anyway.

 

The ten motherboards are actually ten different console boards: 7800,5200,intv,02,CV,nes,snes,sega CDX,TG-16,Jag. By using plug-adapters and such it will also support: 2600, SMS, 32X, famicom, gameboy, jagCD.

 

Will not build any others (the first will take at least a year) or publish full plans, but will have a webpage and answer questions about it.

Cheers, John

---

 

Ok thanks for the information, I will update my page with it.

 

That sounds like a really cool machine. What will you do for the various cartridge slots? Have each one on panel board, or how exactly?

 

Good luck on your project. I can't wait to see how it all works out and see some actually images.