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Stone Age (CCE)


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#51 Omegamatrix OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jan 1, 2014 11:05 AM

Very nice.

 

It would be good if you would use conditional assembler directives (e.g. IF ORIGINAL... ELSE...ENDIF). So that one can assemble the original version from the same source too.

.

.

Definitely. Once I get it all reversed that is. Current progress is most of the ram has been figured out. Once other interesting discovery I made is here:

.

StoneShapesTab_A:
    .byte $00 ; |        | 0   PF0,PF1,PF2
    .byte $E0 ; |XXX     | 1   PF2
    .byte $0E ; |    XXX | 2   PF2
    .byte $EE ; |XXX XXX | 3   PF2
    .byte $07 ; |     XXX| 4   PF1
    .byte 0,0,0
    .byte $70 ; | XXX    | 8   PF1
    .byte 0,0,0
    .byte $77 ; | XXX XXX| 12  PF1
    .byte 0,0,0
    .byte $E0 ; |XXX     | 16  PF0

StoneShapesTab_B:
    .byte $00 ; |        | 0   PF0,PF1,PF2
    .byte $A0 ; |X X     | 1   PF2
    .byte $0A ; |    X X | 2   PF2
    .byte $AA ; |X X X X | 3   PF2
    .byte $05 ; |     X X| 4   PF1
    .byte 0,0,0
    .byte $50 ; | X X    | 8   PF1
    .byte 0,0,0
    .byte $55 ; | X X X X| 12  PF1
    .byte 0,0,0
    .byte $A0 ; |X X     | 16  PF0

;---------------------------------------------------------------------
; For some reason level 1's data also appears here, and is never used.
; Maybe it was put here to help develop the PFx tables above, or the
; position table below. Either way it got left behind.

    stones ___X_X____
    stones XX_X_XXXX_
    stones ___X______
    stones _XXX_XX_X_
    stones ______X_X_
    stones XX_X__X_X_
    stones _X_XX_X_XX
    stones ___X__X___

;---------------------------------------------------------------------

HorizPosTab:
;                          column
;                          number
    .byte     LEFT_2 | 1   ; 1        HMPx | delay count
    .byte     LEFT_7 | 3   ; 2
    .byte     LEFT_6 | 4   ; 3
    .byte     LEFT_5 | 5   ; 4
    .byte     LEFT_3 | 6   ; 5
    .byte     LEFT_3 | 7   ; 6
    .byte     LEFT_2 | 8   ; 7
    .byte     LEFT_1 | 9   ; 8
    .byte  NO_MOTION | 10  ; 9
    .byte  NO_MOTION | 11  ; 10
Zero:
    .byte $3C ; |  XXXX  | $F494
    .byte $62 ; | XX   X | $F495
    .byte $66 ; | XX  XX | $F496
    .byte $6A ; | XX X X | $F497
    .byte $72 ; | XXX  X | $F498
    .byte $62 ; | XX   X | $F499
    .byte $3C ; |  XXXX  | $F49A
    .byte $00 ; |        | $F49B

.

I was wondering what that data was since it didn't seem to be used. Now it makes sense. :)



#52 Rom Hunter OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jan 3, 2014 8:06 AM

Great work, guys.

 

I changed the info on Atarimania's game entries of Stone Age:

http://www.atarimani...e-age_7500.html

 

8)



#53 MADrigal OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jan 10, 2014 9:41 AM

As I mentioned above, both Locomotive and Stone Age were published by VTech for the CreatiVision. Although Stone Age appears to have been barely released (if it was officially released at all) because it's insanely rare, and no box has been found as far as I know. So it wouldn't be a surprise that the 2600 version never made it out the door.

attachicon.giflocomotive_cv.jpg attachicon.gifstone_age_cv.jpg

 

Hello, I was pointed here by a dear friend who's watching this incredible thread.

 

Incredible to me, because I'm very much involved in CreatiVision, being the webmaster of the CreatiVEmu website (http://www.madrigald...n.it/creativemu) and having recently bought CreatiVision games sealed in Technovision shipper boxes (!).

 

I replied to an old thread here, so I please you to also read my impressions and request/offer for information:

 

http://atariage.com/...c-roms-manuals/

 

About Stone Age: it was *officially* released. I own the Finnish version of the cartridge. Sadly, it's loose. And in the past I had the CreatiVision cart here, for dumping purpose (the picture above comes from my website).

 

But a Finnish friend of mine knows a guy who claims to own a complete collection of boxed games, including Stone Age. I'm still waiting to get pictures of the game box. Didn't get them yet :(

 

Please feel free to contact me anytime to swap information on this matter! :)


Edited by MADrigal, Fri Jan 10, 2014 10:07 AM.


#54 PingvinBlueJeans OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jan 10, 2014 10:05 AM

Please feel free to contact me anytime to swap information on this matter! :)


Will do. Thank you for the information.

#55 cvga OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jan 10, 2014 5:33 PM

Is the CGE version of Stone Age difficult to find?



#56 Omegamatrix OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Jan 12, 2014 10:38 PM

Small update. The source is now 100% reversed. What's left to do is some more re-writing to make everything as clear as possible, ensure nothing is dead wrong, and to add some more insight. The disassembly is in pretty good shape now. No magic numbers, every label has a useful name, meaningful comments, some macros, and it can compile different versions.

 

 

I'm excited because it has been a while since a fully reversed source has been done. To me games like Stone Age are some of the most important to disassemble, because we know almost nothing about them. I hope to get it out this weekend, time permitting. :)



#57 MADrigal OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jan 13, 2014 2:41 AM

@Omega: wow!

 

Do you think the source has anything to do with the CreatiVision release, which could be found on ROM format here:

 

http://www.madrigald...tivemu/roms.php

 

Screenshot here:

 

 

 

Attached Thumbnails

  • stoneage.gif


#58 Thomas Jentzsch OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jan 13, 2014 3:25 AM

I doubt the source code of such very different systems can be compared at all.

Only more abstract stuff like game logic, scoring, screen layout, enemy AI etc. could be compared. But for doing that on code level, one would need the documented CreatiVision source too.

And probably comparing this from playing the games is much easier and faster.

#59 carlsson OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jan 13, 2014 9:31 AM

Are the level designs even the same? Unless I miscount something, the 2600 version seems to have a playfield of 10x11 stones while the CreatiVision has 11x8 stones.

 

When comparing scoring, as per the Brazilian instructions you should get 10 pts per stone you remove, 100 pts for smashing one dinosaur, 400 pts for smashing two dinosaurs with one stone, 1600 pts for smashing three dinosaurs and 6400 pts for smashing four dinosaurs.



#60 MADrigal OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jan 13, 2014 9:33 AM

The CreatiVision version has random mazes.



#61 Omegamatrix OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jan 14, 2014 12:45 AM

@Omega: wow!

 

Do you think the source has anything to do with the CreatiVision release, which could be found on ROM format here:

 

http://www.madrigald...tivemu/roms.php

 

Screenshot here:

 

They will be very different roms. Like Thomas says there will probably be very little in common.

 

I do think it would be very interesting to compare the two roms. I doubt I would take on completely disassemble the Creativision rom like I did for the 2600, but I might be able to read a raw disassembly well enough if studied the system a little more.

 

I took a brief peek on your forums. Some good stuff there, but as always, I have more things I want to do them time. ;) Is there a disassembler for Creativision roms?

 

 

 

One of the bugs I found in Stone Age (2600) is the joystick is always assumed to be single direction presses. If 2 or more directions are pressed at the same time then the stone will always be thrown to the right! It is a easy enough bug to fix. :)



#62 MADrigal OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jan 14, 2014 2:17 AM

A disassembler... hmmm no I don't think there's a specific one for CreatiVision. I presume a normal 6502 disassembler would do the job, doesn't it?



#63 Omegamatrix OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Jan 19, 2014 2:32 PM

Here is the Stone Age disassembly:

 

 

Attached File  StoneAge.zip   613.53KB   88 downloads

 

 

Inside are also NTSC, PAL, and PAL60 roms with the following changes:

 1) Changed colors from PAL to NTSC (for NTSC version).
 2) Fixed scanline count (from 246) to 262, and 312.
      - reduced some of the blank, unused screen from below the score bar to the first row of stones
      - centered the screen better
 3) Added the TechnoVision logo. The logo color was also changed to black.
 4) Swapped the players around. The CCE rom had the first player using the right joystick port, which is backwards.
      - switched joysticks and firebuttons
      - switched difficulty settings, so the first player uses the left difficultly switch
      - switched the lives display so that the first players lives is displayed on the left
 5) Swapped the hard and easy setting around. The CCE rom had the "B" setting as hard, which is backwards.
 6) Fixed a direction bug. If two directions were pressed at once, then the Caveman would always throw a stone to the right.
 7) Enabled some dinosaur graphics that were in the rom, but never used. Now the dinosaurs are more animated.
 8) Reduced the volume of the main music theme. The original blasted it out at full volume, and it hurt.
 9) Fixed positioning bug for columns 5 and 10. The dinosaur and caveman would be off by 1 pixel in these columns.

.

.

Truthfully, I'm out of steam on this project. It's very tempting to go and do major re-writes the whole thing... but I choose to keep as much of the code as original as possible. I just gave it a little nudge here and there if it needed it. The disassembly is there if anyone else wants to learn more about the game, or perhaps design their own levels. Enjoy! :)



#64 Thomas Jentzsch OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Jan 19, 2014 2:40 PM

Very nice disassembly! :thumbsup:



#65 bfstats OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Jan 19, 2014 3:42 PM

That is SUPERIOR work, Omega! Not at all surprising.

 

Thanks for yet another contribution.



#66 Mobsie OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jan 27, 2014 11:38 AM

"Is there a disassembler for Creativision roms?" Yes we have a special version who insert the CreatiVision special Bios calls as labels and not as numbers. 

Also insert the CreatiVision specific needed cart vectors. 



#67 Omegamatrix OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Mar 19, 2016 2:40 PM

I was looking at the Technovision manuals on Atariboxed.com, and the manual for Save Our Ship is in English:

 

http://www.atariboxe...l_refnumber=540

 

The manual has a page for other games from Technovision. Stone Age appears there:

 

A time warp throws you millions of years into the past and you have to avoid the vicious dinosaurs and get through the twisting, turning network of caves. Your only defense are huge dinosaur eggs when you're in the STONE AGE!

 

When you look at a screen shot you wonder where are the eggs?

 

Stone Age.png

 

 

The answer are the blocks that construct the maze were originally eggs. Look at the screen shot MADrigal showed for the CreatiVision version a few posts above.

 

CreatiVision Stone Age.gif

 

I strongly believe that Technovision was the original company for Stone Age.



#68 Foxsolo2000 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Mar 19, 2016 4:21 PM

I think you are right.  Great work Omega



#69 MADrigal OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Mar 19, 2016 4:43 PM

i never had any doubt about Stone Age being producd by VTech (Technovision label) :)



#70 Rom Hunter OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Mar 21, 2016 6:25 AM

Yes, the Salora box cover already gave that away:
Attached File  90-0205-01.pdf   1.1MB   46 downloads

8)



#71 Foxsolo2000 OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Mar 21, 2016 12:25 PM

The question remains though that if Stone Age made it did any of the others listed in the manual make it as well but under different titles?



#72 MADrigal OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Oct 12, 2017 4:45 PM

Hi all

 

Just wanted to let you know that, after years and years of research, I was able to get good quality scans of the Stone Age game box.

 

The one I found is the 'Salora Manager' version - this being the Finnish version of the Laser 2001 (computer being the 'sequel' to the CreatiVision).

 

Salora Manager, Laser 2001, and CreatiVision were all made by VTech (Video Technology), who also released games for VCS 2600 under the 'TechnoVision' label.

 

Artworks utilised in Manager and Laser 2001 game boxes were utilised also on CreatiVision game boxes.

 

So even though I have never seen any CreatiVision Stone Age box, I am keen to think the artwork is the same as the Finnish Salora version.

 

Scans of box, manual and cartridge of the Salora Manager game are available on my website:

 

http://www.madrigald...idge.php?id=101

 

Hopefully this will help graphic artists to design a true-to-life Technovision Stone Age box :-)
 



#73 Rom Hunter OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:13 AM

Hi all

 

Just wanted to let you know that, after years and years of research, I was able to get good quality scans of the Stone Age game box.

 

The one I found is the 'Salora Manager' version - this being the Finnish version of the Laser 2001 (computer being the 'sequel' to the CreatiVision).

 

Salora Manager, Laser 2001, and CreatiVision were all made by VTech (Video Technology), who also released games for VCS 2600 under the 'TechnoVision' label.

 

Artworks utilised in Manager and Laser 2001 game boxes were utilised also on CreatiVision game boxes.

 

So even though I have never seen any CreatiVision Stone Age box, I am keen to think the artwork is the same as the Finnish Salora version.

 

Scans of box, manual and cartridge of the Salora Manager game are available on my website:

 

http://www.madrigald...idge.php?id=101

 

Hopefully this will help graphic artists to design a true-to-life Technovision Stone Age box :-)
 

 

http://atariage.com/...ames/?p=3253305

8)


Edited by Rom Hunter, Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:13 AM.


#74 Marc Oberhäuser OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:52 PM

Here we go:

Attached Thumbnails

  • SA2600.png
  • SA2600B.png


#75 MADrigal OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Oct 13, 2017 3:18 PM

Marc, that is GORGEOUS!!!!!!






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