24 replies to this topic

[potatohead]

Ok folks, I took your feedback to heart and rewrote major segments of this game. This version is fully playable, but does not yet have all planned features.

Changes are:

Levelups: There are 10 levels right now. I might consider adding more, but let's see how these go. Each level has a distinct play mechanic, ooze color and difficulty. Some are harder than others, some leave ooze behind for the next screen, etc...

Ooze spreading: Before, if you chose to just sit there and camp out on the fire button, nothing bad happened. Now it does. The ooze spreads out when it hits the bottom. This slowly causes you to lose your playspace to the spreading ooze, or take a hit on your ship to go clean it out. Best keep the ooze at bay now.

Accuracy: Missing the ooze results in a delay to your weapon. Also, it can affect your score as the score counter will not increment during the delay of a missed shot. Not too big of a deal right now, but when the bonus target returns, you just might find your bonus won't count for missed shots. Also, some levels are tough. Not being able to fire will affect your ability to keep the ooze at bay.

For now, no target for powerups. Those are planned once I scrunch the code again. The infrastructure is there however and most of the powerups work. (Just no way to get them.)

So, what I am looking for this time is the viability of these ideas. Given some tweaking, in terms of the level length and parameters, does this make for a better game experience overall? If so, I'll go ahead and get it done with the powerups, etc... If not... let's just say I'll think about it for a while!

 oozev0.5.bas.zip   7.09KB   184 downloads  oozev0.5.bin.zip   2.45KB   190 downloads

I've got a bit of work to do on game start and end code. When you power up, or start your emulator, the game just starts. Reset starts a new game. I'll fix this when other more important things are done. (Like having a real game to actually start!)

As always, any and all feedback welcome. This is a lot of fun, honestly!

Edit: Forgot. The level parameter data is stored in the leveldata statement, right after the drawscreen. (Well, close.) Feel free to tweak these for your own level combinations. If you find good ones, please share!

The first parameter is the level time, second one is game tweak flags (fast, slow, etc...), third is the ooze difficulty (smaller is harder bigger is easier), fourth is ooze foreground color, fifth is background color, with the remaining parameters unused at the moment.

Edited by potatohead, Mon Aug 15, 2005 10:05 PM.

[sku_u]

There's no attachment.

[Random Terrain]

There's no attachment.

From the dotted line under his name, I think he is working on that.

[potatohead]

There's no attachment.

From the dotted line under his name, I think he is working on that.

I am...hold on a moment...

All done.

Edited by potatohead, Mon Aug 15, 2005 10:07 PM.

[sku_u]

Wow, you've definitely found the balance between futility and overly easy. Great job!!!

I have to play a few more to make sure, but it looks like you have a winner here. This is a highly addictive game, btw.

[Random Terrain]

Accuracy: Missing the ooze results in a delay to your weapon. Also, it can affect your score as the score counter will not increment during the delay of a missed shot. Not too big of a deal right now, but when the bonus target returns, you just might find your bonus won't count for missed shots. Also, some levels are tough. Not being able to fire will affect your ability to keep the ooze at bay.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Some may not agree, but I don't care. I will also be blunt. Don't f*ck with my fire button. It reminds me of the quote I have on this page:

http://www.randomter...-interface.html

Don't ever take control away from the joypad/keyboard unless you really want to piss off the player. When you press jump, make him jump. Fight animators or anyone else who tries to get you to do anything else. Instant response is key.
Dave Perry (Adapted)
Next Generation Magazine, January 1997

Taking away the power to fire will make those who didn't read the manual think something is wrong with their joystick, Atari, or your cartridge. Not cool, not fun, just annoying. If you must punish the player, find some other way that isn't as irritating.

Edited by Random Terrain, Mon Dec 17, 2007 4:01 AM.

[potatohead]

I will also be blunt. Don't f*ck with my fire button. It reminds me of the quote I have on this page:

LOL!! Blunt is totally good! No worries here. You've a solid point and I'll seriously consider it. Let's let some feedback roll in and go from there.

I'm inclined to give you a really slow bullet instead of nothing --if that ends up being the better course of action, but something is gonna happen if you miss the ooze. Game balance is not good otherwise.

Edited by potatohead, Mon Aug 15, 2005 11:15 PM.

[sku_u]

Some may not agree, but I don't care. I will also be blunt. Don't f*ck with my fire button. It reminds me of the quote I have on this page:

http://www.randomter...n/controls.html

Don't ever take control away from the joypad/keyboard unless you really want to piss off the player. When you press jump, make him jump. Fight animators or anyone else who tries to get you to do anything else. Instant response is key.
Dave Perry (Adapted)
Next Generation Magazine, January 1997

Taking away the power to fire will make those who didn't read the manual think something is wrong with their joystick, Atari, or your cartridge. Not cool, not fun, just annoying. If you must punish the player, find some other way that isn't as irritating.

I definitely disagree here. I think stunning the ship temporarily adds a new element of challenge and will make people think twice about wasting their shots. I say keep it.

[potatohead]

BTW: This thread is for any commentary. Hate starting a new one each time, but I suppose that's how it's done. Features, high-scores (since the game has an end, why not?), etc.. all go here. Anyone care to chime in on that? What's the usual way of handling game-iteration feedback?

Development notes are both in the basic code, (Lots 'o comments) and in my Atari Age blog. You will see some assembly in there, but there is nothing that cannot be done with the language itself. I'm at the 4K limit, making new additions possible, but also demanding things get done the right way and the smallest way. (Still have a long ways to go on the latter.) The assembly is smaller, and in the case of clearing the playfield, faster. Probably will see more of it the next iteration.

[Random Terrain]

I will also be blunt. Don't f*ck with my fire button. It reminds me of the quote I have on this page:

LOL!! Blunt is totally good! No worries here. You've a solid point and I'll seriously consider it. Let's let some feedback roll in and go from there.

I'm inclined to give you a really slow bullet instead of nothing --if that ends up being the better course of action, but something is gonna happen if you miss the ooze. Game balance is not good otherwise.

I can give you a couple of ideas off the top of my head, but remember that I don't know what is possible since I am new to game making on the Atari 2600. I'm not doing too much except some simple things until the gosub bug is gone (I loves me some gosub). Here are two quick ideas:

1. Maybe the missile could bounce back if you miss and cause some kind of negative effect such as taking some points away from the score.

2. Maybe the ooze could have a sensitive base layer behind the stuff that drips down and if a line is clear to it and you 'miss' the dripping ooze and hit that base layer, the whole ooze would flash (very quick cycle of colors) and then the ooze would speed up a bit because you pissed it off.

[jussts]

Some may not agree, but I don't care. I will also be blunt. Don't f*ck with my fire button. It reminds me of the quote I have on this page:

http://www.randomter...n/controls.html

Don't ever take control away from the joypad/keyboard unless you really want to piss off the player. When you press jump, make him jump. Fight animators or anyone else who tries to get you to do anything else. Instant response is key.
Dave Perry (Adapted)
Next Generation Magazine, January 1997

Taking away the power to fire will make those who didn't read the manual think something is wrong with their joystick, Atari, or your cartridge. Not cool, not fun, just annoying. If you must punish the player, find some other way that isn't as irritating.

I definitely disagree here. I think stunning the ship temporarily adds a new element of challenge and will make people think twice about wasting their shots. I say keep it.

I'll vote, "Don't f*ck with my fire button." Take away points or something if you must, but don't muck with the controls.

[Jess Ragan]

I like the idea of a ricocheting bullet. Definitely give that some consideration... it would add an extra element of danger to the game, and more pressure on the player is always a good thing.

JR

[potatohead]

You know I like it too. It only takes a moment to get that done, so here is a playable version with the bullet bounce.  oozeV0.55.bas.zip   7.28KB   157 downloads  oozeV0.55.bin.zip   2.48KB   187 downloads

If the bouncy bullet is better, I can make a change or two and continue on that path; otherwise, no real harm done...

There is no indicator, other than the lives display counting down on the left of the screen, so beware. --This does make the player keep better track of what they are doing for sure!

[potatohead]

1. Maybe the missile could bounce back if you miss and cause some kind of negative effect such as taking some points away from the score.

That's done to compare the two ideas.

2. Maybe the ooze could have a sensitive base layer behind the stuff that drips down and if a line is clear to it and you 'miss' the dripping ooze and hit that base layer, the whole ooze would flash (very quick cycle of colors) and then the ooze would speed up a bit because you pissed it off.

Like this one, but no room for all of that.

[Random Terrain]

If the bouncy bullet is better, I can make a change or two and continue on that path; otherwise, no real harm done...

I like that much better. If you go with that, will the ship flash or will there be a special sound?

[potatohead]

If the bouncy bullet is better, I can make a change or two and continue on that path; otherwise, no real harm done...

I like that much better. If you go with that, will the ship flash or will there be a special sound?

I'll do something. Can't just take the ship. Just wanted folks to be able to compare both quickly while the idea was fresh.

[Omegamatrix]

I like the missile bouncing back. The levels are good too. kinda reminds me of Turmoil. I got to level three and all of a sudden the game went in slow motion. I am using Z26, and I don't know how to adjust the emulator to speed up the game again (if you can with the emulator). I kept going though and level four got crazy. The oozes' speed returned to almost normal, and my missiles got slower. I know that the speeds were on and the problem was just with the framerate (if that's the right term) running slower. Even in slow motion though I died right away. The only way I can see anyone having a chance of getting to level eight or so is if you utilize the top two lines of the screen to have the ooze start falling from there. One interesting note too is that even when the ooze killed me the game would continue to play and once the next level started the ooze would begin at the top again. The only way I truily died is if the bouncing missiles finished me off.

Keep up the good work. I like the direction this game is going!

[Thomas Jentzsch]

I definitely disagree here.  I think stunning the ship temporarily adds a new element of challenge and will make people think twice about wasting their shots.  I say keep it.

Agreed, but there should be some kind of visual indicator while the ship is stunned. Maybe simply changing/darkening the color.

[vdub_bobby]

I like the bouncy bullet *much* better than losing the ability to fire for a minute. Looking very good!

[potatohead]

I like the missile bouncing back. The levels are good too. kinda reminds me of Turmoil. I got to level three and all of a sudden the game went in slow motion. I am using Z26, and I don't know how to adjust the emulator to speed up the game again (if you can with the emulator). I kept going though and level four got crazy. The oozes' speed returned to almost normal, and my missiles got slower. I know that the speeds were on and the problem was just with the framerate (if that's the right term) running slower. Even in slow motion though I died right away. The only way I can see anyone having a chance of getting to level eight or so is if you utilize the top two lines of the screen to have the ooze start falling from there. One interesting note too is that even when the ooze killed me the game would continue to play and once the next level started the ooze would begin at the top again. The only way I truily died is if the bouncing missiles finished me off.

Keep up the good work. I like the direction this game is going!

The speed changes are on purpose. It is totally possible to survive through level 8. (Not really easy though.) I'll be doing some playtuning on that part of things. I was not sure what swings of difficulty made any sense. Was hoping for comments in this area, once folks played it a few times.

The game start bug has to do with you holding the joystick trigger. I'll fix that. Game is supposed to stop & wait for trigger no matter how you end up finishing the game...

[sku_u]

The speed changes are on purpose.  It is totally possible to survive through level 8.  (Not really easy though.)  I'll be doing some playtuning on that part of things.  I was not sure what swings of difficulty made any sense.  Was hoping for comments in this area, once folks played it a few times.

The game start bug has to do with you holding the joystick trigger.  I'll fix that.  Game is supposed to stop & wait for trigger no matter how you end up finishing the game...

I kind of like the difficulties they way they are currently balanced. I was able to play beyond level 8 without too much difficulty. I'm not crazy about the bouncing shot. It makes the game too easy IMHO. I liked the stun feature more. Maybe after the VGE is over, you could drop Albert a PM and ask him to feature your game on the front page. It'd direct more people here and hopefully get more beta testers. Right now you have 2 people who like the stun feature and 2 people who like the bounce back feature. That's not enough to get a good consensus, IMO.

One thing I can tell you for sure is that when this is done and on a cart, I will be buying a copy as it is a very addictive game.

[gambler172]

Hi Potatohead
great work;hope to see more nice Batari basic games.
greetings Gambler172

[potatohead]

I kind of like the difficulties they way they are currently balanced.  I was able to play beyond level 8 without too much difficulty.  I'm not crazy about the bouncing shot.  It makes the game too easy IMHO.  I liked the stun feature more.  Maybe after the VGE is over, you could drop Albert a PM and ask him to feature your game on the front page.  It'd direct more people here and hopefully get more beta testers.  Right now you have 2 people who like the stun feature and 2 people who like the bounce back feature.  That's not enough to get a good consensus, IMO.

I'm thinking this might end up being a powerup, or game variation. I've not had any contact with Albert yet, though I did submit the game using the in development form. It's ready for that level of attention at this point.

More feedback would be just great. Totally agree we have too small of sample right now. I like the stun feature better too. More game challenge and it keeps the player from just camping on the fire button. When that happens, the game becomes a lot easier. Started out with a latch that forced the player to ask for each shot, but it's too much and too tiring. ---something will have to happen here to keep game balance in check. Camping on the fire button just won't cut it.

Graphically, the bouncy bullet looks great though!

One thing I can tell you for sure is that when this is done and on a cart, I will be buying a copy as it is a very addictive game.

Agreed, and thanks. Once I got it to a playable state, I played it often looking for ideas. The kids have played this version a lot actually. I set it up in Stella fullscreen, with a gampad running through USB. They will just sit there and blast the ooze.

I'm considering one long level where it's not a cake walk, but enough of a challenge to let the player just zone on the ooze for a nice long while before moving on to the next levels. This would be a chance to get some good scores as well, as an experienced player could choose to walk the edge and let the ooze come down farther for the points alone. More risk, more reward.

Hi Potatohead
great work;hope to see more nice Batari basic games.
greetings Gambler172

Greets back! ---one at a time. This one sucked me in huge! Before starting anything else, a lot of polish remains on this one. Core game logic works well, but play balance is still iffy.

[sku_u]

Graphically, the bouncy bullet looks great though!

Definitely. You also chose a good sound effect to accompany it. Would it be possible to implement the bouncy bullet and stun feature randomly or possibly reserve the bouncy bullet for the earlier levels and the stun feature for the later levels or would that gobble up too much memory? If you do eventually use the stun feature, it'd be great to make it obvious with a sound or color change as Thomas suggested earlier.

[potatohead]

Graphically, the bouncy bullet looks great though!

Definitely. You also chose a good sound effect to accompany it. Would it be possible to implement the bouncy bullet and stun feature randomly or possibly reserve the bouncy bullet for the earlier levels and the stun feature for the later levels or would that gobble up too much memory? If you do eventually use the stun feature, it'd be great to make it obvious with a sound or color change as Thomas suggested earlier.

Adding a sound is no biggie. Adding a visual indicator of stunned status is on the to-do list. Was thinking about slowing the ship slightly, and changing it's color. I'll be thinking about what sound makes sense.

Early feedback indicated pure random is bad. Too much chance marginalizes skill and level progression. I've got the level data tabulated so that I can set & reset options on a level by level basis, making your by level idea a good one. Again, another few bytes to toggle the bouncy flag (when it gets written that is) on and off is doable.

One other point of discussion remains the target. Right now, the code is there to put target on screen and have hitting it do things. The whole fuel idea sucked and was tied to the target. If I am careful about space (and scrunch a coupla more things), the target can appear as a power up. Powerups possible:

knock back all ooze, extra ship, game state change [fast bullets, bouncy ones, etc...], extra level time, less level time, level warp...

If possible, I would like the target to be used in the final game. Seems a shame to waste a perfectly good sprite....

Edited by potatohead, Sat Aug 20, 2005 1:01 PM.