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FB2 compatiblity list


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#1 jsoper OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Aug 26, 2005 1:17 AM

Just finished running my collection of about 255 unique carts through the FB2. I think it's a good cross-section of the full libary but sadly no supercharger or bankswitched Tigervision games. If you want me to try certain carts I don't have, you can ship them to me. I'd be happy to keep them and send you back the results. :D

Here is my list of 27 problem carts, they all worked when tried on my 7800 afterward. My main conclusion? I really need to play my collection more often. :)

Quadrun -- no voice
Berzerk VE -- ditto

Cosmic Ark -- screwed up starfield
Journey Escape -- ditto

Kool-Aid Man -- KAM just bounces back and forth in diagonal direction

Galaxian -- extra column of no-goodniks, don't die when hit

Mogul Maniac -- color bars on left side of screen

Dig Dug -- garbled player objects and playfield

Space Shuttle --rolls
Airlock -- rolls
Robot Tank -- rolls and shows "switch to reserve tank" screen

Plaque Attack -- ghosted player object on left side of screen
Sprintmaster -- slightly ghosted player graphic
Bermuda Triangle -- ghosted graphics on right side of screen
Worm War I -- slight ghosting
Desert Falcon -- major player graphic ghosting

Activsion Checkers -- won't load
Boxing -- ditto (boo-hoo, no dancing parameciums on FB2)
Dark Chambers -- ditto
HERO -- ditto
Stargate -- ditto (F8 bankswitch but with ram chip)
Blue Print -- ditto
Decathlon -- ditto (hmmm, didn't like either FE bankswitched game)
Pitfall 2 -- ditto ( David Crane chip might have trouble with 4.2v VCC)
Secret Agent -- ditto
Omega Race -- ditto
Berzerk -- wouldn't load (someone else reported it as working though)

Edited by jsoper, Fri Aug 26, 2005 1:53 AM.


#2 Flojomojo ONLINE  

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Posted Fri Aug 26, 2005 5:00 AM

I know it's a huge list, but it would be great if you could post the titles of the working games as well -- 90% compatibility isn't a bad ratio, but the list of broken games only gives a pretty negative visual impression of the FB2.

Thanks so much for posting this, BTW. I wish there were a similar list of games that don't run on the Yobo famiclone (Nintendo on a chip), but all I am able to find are vague references to various incompatibilities. I would think the NES scene is much larger than the Atari scene, so it's great that you took the time to test this out and share with us. :cool: :cool: :cool:

#3 jsoper OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Aug 26, 2005 11:11 AM

I know it's a huge list, but it would be great if you could post the titles of the working games as well

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Yikes! I'm not gonna do that, how about a picture instead? You can see most everything except Imagic and INTV titles but those two are mostly complete:

Posted Image

#4 Thomas Jentzsch OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Aug 26, 2005 11:59 AM

Did you check any homebrews?

#5 jsoper OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Aug 26, 2005 12:10 PM

Did you check any homebrews?

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Ummm...no but I do have a complete 5200 homebrew collection :)
2600 HBs always seemed too numerous to start collecting.

It seems to boil down to Ram games, FE bankswitching, and aggressive TIA tricks to my eyes.

#6 A.J. Franzman OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Aug 26, 2005 1:17 PM

You can see most everything except Imagic and INTV titles but those two are mostly complete:
[image]

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If you flip the Imagic, M-Network/INTV, Parker Brothers and any similar carts around the other way, they'll look upside-down but they should be readable. Another option is to turn the bins around, and hold your camera upside-down (or rotate the image 180 degrees in software). This way everything will be right-side-up and readable, but the camera angle will look a little odd.

#7 jsoper OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Aug 26, 2005 2:08 PM

<Cartman> You guys are busting my balls here, totally </Cartman>

#8 Flojomojo ONLINE  

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Posted Sat Aug 27, 2005 11:27 AM

I know it's a huge list, but it would be great if you could post the titles of the working games as well

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Yikes! I'm not gonna do that, how about a picture instead? You can see most everything except Imagic and INTV titles but those two are mostly complete:

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That picture was definitely worth a thousand words. Awesome!

#9 sidcrowe OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Aug 27, 2005 9:57 PM

What the......?

So the sound chip screwed version is even further screwed?

#10 A.J. Franzman OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Aug 27, 2005 10:10 PM

So the sound chip screwed version is even further screwed?

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It's probably worse than that - very likely ALL Flashback 2.0 units have the same game compatibility problems.

At least the percentage has increased from the initially reported ~75%; now it looks like ~90% of cartridges are compatible. Unfortunately the incompatible ones use some of the most advanced programming tricks, so the compatibility ratio for the most popular games will probably be a bit lower.

#11 sebastius OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Aug 28, 2005 4:21 PM

Wouldn't it just be a problem with proper voltage? Knowing that the real 2600 uses 5 volts, and the FBII iirc is using 3.3 volts on it's interface. The games with voice probably use a special chip, which may not be so forgiving as the average ROM chip?

Perhaps one of those 3.3->5v bi-directional interface chips (yes they exist) would solve a lot of problems. But as I am unknowing in the department of the FBII, and those chips as well, I couldn't say for sure.

Edited by sebastius, Sun Aug 28, 2005 4:23 PM.


#12 mojofltr OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Aug 28, 2005 4:48 PM

Yeesh! I hate to throw out a downer, but I'm starting to think that original hardware is the only way to go! :P

#13 A.J. Franzman OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Aug 28, 2005 6:20 PM

Wouldn't it just be a problem with proper voltage? Knowing that the real 2600 uses 5 volts, and the FBII iirc is using 3.3 volts on it's interface. The games with voice probably use a special chip, which may not be so forgiving as the average ROM chip?

Perhaps one of those 3.3->5v bi-directional interface chips (yes they exist) would solve a lot of problems. But as I am unknowing in the department of the FBII, and those chips as well, I couldn't say for sure.

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No. Already discussed: FB2 Cartridge-fied with Autodetect.

#14 batari OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Aug 28, 2005 6:23 PM

Wouldn't it just be a problem with proper voltage? Knowing that the real 2600 uses 5 volts, and the FBII iirc is using 3.3 volts on it's interface. The games with voice probably use a special chip, which may not be so forgiving as the average ROM chip?

The games with a voice do not use special chips.

Perhaps one of those 3.3->5v bi-directional interface chips (yes they exist) would solve a lot of problems. But as I am unknowing in the department of the FBII, and those chips as well, I couldn't say for sure.

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Lots of 3.3v chips are 5v tolerant for logic levels, and nearly 100% of 5v chips are tolerant of 3.3v as a logic high. The problem is with Vcc, which should be close to 5v.

I'd be willing to bet that if the voltage problems are with Vcc, a simple 7805 regulator connected to the Vcc pin on the cart slot would solve all voltage problems.

EDIT: I didn't see A.J.'s reply before I posted mine. so A.J.: is there any reason why one could not wire a 7805 from the AC adapter's power pins and use this to power the cart?

Edited by batari, Sun Aug 28, 2005 6:28 PM.


#15 Zonie OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Aug 28, 2005 6:58 PM

Can you guys imagine the calls Atari would be getting if they put the cart port on it in the factory?

Answer in thread above!

Long live my heavy sixer!

#16 Room 34 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Aug 28, 2005 7:02 PM

...how about a picture instead...


Wow... sorted by label color. Nice! :)

#17 sidcrowe OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Aug 30, 2005 3:35 AM

So the sound chip screwed version is even further screwed?

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It's probably worse than that - very likely ALL Flashback 2.0 units have the same game compatibility problems.

At least the percentage has increased from the initially reported ~75%; now it looks like ~90% of cartridges are compatible. Unfortunately the incompatible ones use some of the most advanced programming tricks, so the compatibility ratio for the most popular games will probably be a bit lower.

View Post


Yeccccccch :(

#18 Bruce Tomlin OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Aug 30, 2005 10:52 AM

At least the percentage has increased from the initially reported ~75%; now it looks like ~90% of cartridges are compatible. Unfortunately the incompatible ones use some of the most advanced programming tricks, so the compatibility ratio for the most popular games will probably be a bit lower.

I mentioned Cosmic Ark to Curt, and he said he wasn't even trying to get that one to work right. He did seem surprised about Galaxian, but so it goes.

#19 keilbaca OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Aug 30, 2005 12:15 PM

When I get around to it (and I really mean get around to it, I'm so behind on projects...), I'll put a cart slot in mine and test all the carts I got. I hope it plays Boing!, that's my fav...

#20 A.J. Franzman OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Aug 30, 2005 3:04 PM

...how about a picture instead...

Wow... sorted by label color. Nice! :)

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Maybe nice to look at, but when I want to play a particular game, the first thing I think of is its name. Do people really find sorting by maker (or rarity, or even label color) to be the most convenient way??? Sometimes I don't even remember who made a given title.

#21 Emehr OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Aug 30, 2005 4:33 PM

...how about a picture instead...

Wow... sorted by label color. Nice! :)

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Maybe nice to look at, but when I want to play a particular game, the first thing I think of is its name. Do people really find sorting by maker (or rarity, or even label color) to be the most convenient way??? Sometimes I don't even remember who made a given title.

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When it comes to Atari 2600 games I sort by color. At most I had about 140 games now I've trimmed back to around 90. At this quantity it's not too difficult to remember who made what or which game is a red label or text label, etc. Plus it just looks nicer on a shelf, especially when there are different cartridge shapes thrown into the mix. Not to mention Atari and Activision had standard fonts for their labels, making it more aesthetically pleasing to group them together. Same goes for INTV games.

When it comes to everything else, though (NES, Genesis, PS1, etc.), the games go in alphabetical order.

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#22 shadow460 OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Aug 30, 2005 10:32 PM

I sort first by company, then by some label types. For instance, Mattel and INTV are next to each other, but separate. Same with Sears and Atari, and the 7800 games are separate from the others. I've got two spots for Activision, one in the 7800 case and the regular spot.
My daddy sorted his by alpha. All but the Starpath games were sorted that way, and those were in numerical order in their own case.

Sorting by company has its problems though when you only have one cart from a maker, like Tooth Protectors.

#23 DanBoris OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Aug 31, 2005 11:15 AM

I remeber back when I was writing my 2600 emulator that the startfield in Cosmic Ark gave me a lot of trouble. It uses a pretty obscure technique that the FB2's TIA probably doesn't handle properly.

Dan

I mentioned Cosmic Ark to Curt, and he said he wasn't even trying to get that one to work right.  He did seem surprised about Galaxian, but so it goes.

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#24 Thomas Jentzsch OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Aug 31, 2005 11:24 AM

I mentioned Cosmic Ark to Curt, and he said he wasn't even trying to get that one to work right.

Hm, but then it seems to me that the hardware is only emulating the TIA. Where's the big difference to software emulations then? :ponder:

#25 jsoper OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Aug 31, 2005 12:03 PM

Hm, but then it seems to me that the hardware is only emulating the TIA. Where's the big difference to software emulations then?  :ponder:

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I've been wondering that since they aquired Atari, they should have direct access to all the schematics, gate descriptions, and layouts of both the 3 chip and 1 chip designs and should be able to replicate those circuits fairly easily. Couldn't they just convert the 1 chip schematic to CMOS?




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