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7800 computer - finally !


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#51 Cousin Vinnie OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Dec 14, 2005 6:21 AM

I want a computer! I heard they are "the wave of the future!"

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#52 Allan ONLINE  

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Posted Wed Dec 14, 2005 7:33 AM

I want a computer! I heard they are "the wave of the future!"

Vinnie

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Yes, they're great. I recommend the Mattel Aquarius. Mattel promises to make lots of software and hardware to support it.

Allan

#53 Curt Vendel OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Dec 14, 2005 7:54 AM

Hi Allan,

Its a terminal program. Apparently a modem was made but I have yet to track one down yet, so I'll keep that one on the shelf until I locate the modem module.


Curt

Would there be anyway to increase the RAM on the RAM carts? Just curious. It would be nice to have 64K or more.

Did you ever figure out what that third cart was from this picture or find anything else interesting in the stuff that the GCC guys gave you at the Vintage Computer Festival East?

Woops, forgot the picture.

Allan

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#54 Allan ONLINE  

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Posted Wed Dec 14, 2005 8:02 AM

Hey Curt,
So you don't think this would work (was written to be used) with a 1030 or similar modem?

Allan

Hi Allan,

  Its a terminal program.    Apparently a modem was made but I have yet to track one down yet, so I'll keep that one on the shelf until I locate the modem module.


Curt

Would there be anyway to increase the RAM on the RAM carts? Just curious. It would be nice to have 64K or more.

Did you ever figure out what that third cart was from this picture or find anything else interesting in the stuff that the GCC guys gave you at the Vintage Computer Festival East?

Woops, forgot the picture.

Allan

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#55 cbmeeks OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Dec 14, 2005 1:14 PM

Yes, they're great. I recommend the Mattel Aquarius. Mattel promises to make lots of software and hardware to support it.

Allan

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I have one! hahahaha

cbmeeks

#56 Mitch OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Dec 15, 2005 8:02 PM

Hi Allan,

  Its a terminal program.    Apparently a modem was made but I have yet to track one down yet, so I'll keep that one on the shelf until I locate the modem module.


Curt


That's cool, I think the terminal program was the only one of the original 7800 keyboard programs that hadn't been confirmed to be found yet. :)
I hope you can find what modem it works with.

Mitch

#57 Allan ONLINE  

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Posted Thu Dec 15, 2005 8:07 PM

Hi Allan,

   Its a terminal program.    Apparently a modem was made but I have yet to track one down yet, so I'll keep that one on the shelf until I locate the modem module.


Curt


That's cool, I think the terminal program was the only one of the original 7800 keyboard programs that hadn't been confirmed to be found yet. :)
I hope you can find what modem it works with.

Mitch

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Then we can send our Atari 7800 Basic programs back and forth to each other. Maybe even create the first 7800 BBS. :)

Allan

#58 Allan ONLINE  

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Posted Thu Dec 15, 2005 8:10 PM

Hi Allan,

   Its a terminal program.    Apparently a modem was made but I have yet to track one down yet, so I'll keep that one on the shelf until I locate the modem module.


Curt


That's cool, I think the terminal program was the only one of the original 7800 keyboard programs that hadn't been confirmed to be found yet. :)
I hope you can find what modem it works with.

Mitch

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It would be weird if it needed a different modem other than a 1030. Why would they have wasted designing a new modem when they had the SIO connected 1030?

Allan

#59 MaDDuck OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Dec 16, 2005 8:13 AM

Hi Allan,

   Its a terminal program.    Apparently a modem was made but I have yet to track one down yet, so I'll keep that one on the shelf until I locate the modem module.


Curt


That's cool, I think the terminal program was the only one of the original 7800 keyboard programs that hadn't been confirmed to be found yet. :)
I hope you can find what modem it works with.

Mitch

View Post


It would be weird if it needed a different modem other than a 1030. Why would they have wasted designing a new modem when they had the SIO connected 1030?

Allan

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Very good point!
Can a SIO handle a fater throughput that a 300Bps modem uses??
A modem is kinda low on the list right now (as far as I'm concerned!) I'm more excited by:
1. getting to master a new version of BASIC!!
2. See which ML calls are availible
3. possibly a RS-232 link of some type
4. Run homebrews from an ISO, burned onto a CD, hooked into the standard cassette interface!
5. Just something new to do on my 7800!
6. Proof everlasting that the Tramiels did NOT know what they were doing. I firmly believe the C-64 was the last good idea to ever be in his head!!

WHEW!

#60 MegaManFan OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Dec 16, 2005 8:30 AM

Put me down for one too please - you've got e-mail. :D

Actually I think the modem idea excites me a great deal. I know it probably won't be available at the start since it's not top priority, but if Curt ever does find the modem module and it turns out to be something off the shelf or easy to produce, the possibilities are both amusing and limitless. I want to see two 7800's do a handshake and then have a live streaming conversation over xx00 baud, and that's just for starters!

#61 MaDDuck OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Dec 16, 2005 8:54 AM

Put me down for one too please - you've got e-mail. :D

Actually I think the modem idea excites me a great deal.  I know it probably won't be available at the start since it's not top priority, but if Curt ever does find the modem module and it turns out to be something off the shelf or easy to produce, the possibilities are both amusing and limitless.  I want to see two 7800's do a handshake and then have a live streaming conversation over xx00 baud, and that's just for starters!

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Picture something like MIDI maze with two linked 7800 systems....

#62 Shawn OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Dec 16, 2005 11:54 AM

Put me down for one too please - you've got e-mail. :D

Actually I think the modem idea excites me a great deal.  I know it probably won't be available at the start since it's not top priority, but if Curt ever does find the modem module and it turns out to be something off the shelf or easy to produce, the possibilities are both amusing and limitless.  I want to see two 7800's do a handshake and then have a live streaming conversation over xx00 baud, and that's just for starters!

View Post



Picture something like MIDI maze with two linked 7800 systems....

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Or how about a Doom type game where you can hunt down the other player on the other console? Oh yeah!! I know the graphics wouldn't be the best but thats not the point.

Also so I take it the modem cart works now?

#63 Curt Vendel OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Dec 16, 2005 12:07 PM

See, the carts are the other side of the coin in this, they are just ridiculously huge and overpopulated, so the idea is to consolidate them down with a 32x8 SRAM (maybe some surplus 62256's, 1 meg eprom (27010) and a GAL/PAL for the chip select logic and then a slide switch to select back/forth between VideoWriter and OSS 7800 Basic.

Basic schematic and PAL/GAL truth table are done for LO_RAM_CS, HI_RAM_CS, RAM_CS and EPROM_CS...

Once I've got the new KB design running all of the original carts correctly, I'll perfboard a proto of the new app cart and make sure it is working.




Curt

Would there be anyway to increase the RAM on the RAM carts? Just curious. It would be nice to have 64K or more.

Did you ever figure out what that third cart was from this picture or find anything else interesting in the stuff that the GCC guys gave you at the Vintage Computer Festival East?

Woops, forgot the picture.

Allan

View Post



#64 Allan ONLINE  

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Posted Fri Dec 16, 2005 12:29 PM

Put me down for one too please - you've got e-mail. :D

Actually I think the modem idea excites me a great deal.  I know it probably won't be available at the start since it's not top priority, but if Curt ever does find the modem module and it turns out to be something off the shelf or easy to produce, the possibilities are both amusing and limitless.  I want to see two 7800's do a handshake and then have a live streaming conversation over xx00 baud, and that's just for starters!

View Post



Picture something like MIDI maze with two linked 7800 systems....

View Post



Or how about a Doom type game where you can hunt down the other player on the other console? Oh yeah!! I know the graphics wouldn't be the best but thats not the point.

Also so I take it the modem cart works now?

View Post


No answer from Curt yet but hopefully he's concentrating on getting the keyboard itself made. We'll have to wait and see if it does telecommunication cart needs a special modem or wether it can use a 1030XL modem. I don't think you're going to get much out of it though. I dought you'll be able to use anything other than a 300 baud modem so forget Doom or even a MidiMaze game. It just would be neat to communicate back and forth through a regular telepone line with the modems. Now that so many companies offer all-distance calling (aka. no long distance charges) it won't cost anything to connect directly with other 7800s. Personally I'd be estatic just to be able to write some programs in 7800 Basic and swap them with other people. It will be interesting to see what kind of programs we'll be able to write with this basic. It would be cool to convert an J.D. Casten game.

Allan

#65 shadow460 OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Dec 16, 2005 3:16 PM

After following this thread, I'm hooked,
Hello, Curt, welcome back to Atari. You've got mail!

The main thing I'm interested in it for is development. I assume it's capable of saving the programs you write.
Will it do more than BASIC?

#66 MaDDuck OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Dec 16, 2005 3:22 PM

Can it sub/replace the keyboard controllers?
Does it happen to map to controller functions?

#67 Mitch OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Dec 16, 2005 9:22 PM

Can it sub/replace the keyboard controllers?
Does it happen to map to controller functions?

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From what I've read in the tech docs the answers are no and no.
Though I suppose you could write a new homebrew that took advantage of it in either of those ways.

Mitch

#68 Allan ONLINE  

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Posted Fri Dec 16, 2005 9:27 PM

Can it sub/replace the keyboard controllers?
Does it happen to map to controller functions?

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Just curious why you asked this. Did you have something particular in mind?

Allan

#69 Brad2600 OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Dec 16, 2005 10:04 PM

This is a very interesting development indeed! :D

#70 Allan ONLINE  

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Posted Fri Dec 16, 2005 10:17 PM

See, the carts are the other side of the coin in this, they are just ridiculously huge and overpopulated, so the idea is to consolidate them down with a 32x8 SRAM (maybe some  surplus 62256's, 1 meg eprom (27010) and a GAL/PAL for the chip select logic and then a slide switch to select back/forth between VideoWriter and OSS 7800 Basic.

Basic schematic and PAL/GAL  truth table are done for LO_RAM_CS, HI_RAM_CS, RAM_CS and EPROM_CS...

Once I've got the new KB design running all of the original carts correctly, I'll perfboard a proto of the new app cart and make sure it is working.




Curt

   

Would there be anyway to increase the RAM on the RAM carts? Just curious. It would be nice to have 64K or more.

Did you ever figure out what that third cart was from this picture or find anything else interesting in the stuff that the GCC guys gave you at the Vintage Computer Festival East?

Woops, forgot the picture.

Allan

View Post

View Post


Hey, I missed this post. So any program that needs lots of RAM such as BASIC or a terminal program needs to have it on the cart? Interesting.

Allan

#71 Curt Vendel OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Dec 17, 2005 12:08 AM

Its simple to make an in-line SRAM card to add more memory, if you needed it...

It would appear that you might've been able (if released) to buy memory carts to add more memory into your 7800 and then plug your app cart in, I am wondering if eventually Atari would have made some kind of multi-cartridge ports adapter on the top of the 7800 to have 2-3 carts inserted (you have to think - app cart, memory cart/module, and maybe a high score cart too, so...)

To answer the other question about replacing the keypad controllers... its interesting that it was brought up... I've been messing around with a pic mcu to interface with a standard keyboard to issue our the 4 color sequences of the Atari keyboard controllers for Basic Programming for the 2600...

What I'd REEEEEALLY like to do is work with some on a monitor cart of sorts or maybe a terminal cart to take standard ASCII data and then display on the 2600 screen from a simply z80 based computer system I've been tinkering around making... It would essentially be a computer add-on for the 2600, but there is already plenty of Compumates floating around.



Curt


See, the carts are the other side of the coin in this, they are just ridiculously huge and overpopulated, so the idea is to consolidate them down with a 32x8 SRAM (maybe some  surplus 62256's, 1 meg eprom (27010) and a GAL/PAL for the chip select logic and then a slide switch to select back/forth between VideoWriter and OSS 7800 Basic.

Basic schematic and PAL/GAL  truth table are done for LO_RAM_CS, HI_RAM_CS, RAM_CS and EPROM_CS...

Once I've got the new KB design running all of the original carts correctly, I'll perfboard a proto of the new app cart and make sure it is working.




Curt

   

Would there be anyway to increase the RAM on the RAM carts? Just curious. It would be nice to have 64K or more.

Did you ever figure out what that third cart was from this picture or find anything else interesting in the stuff that the GCC guys gave you at the Vintage Computer Festival East?

Woops, forgot the picture.

Allan

View Post

View Post


Hey, I missed this post. So any program that needs lots of RAM such as BASIC or a terminal program needs to have it on the cart? Interesting.

Allan

View Post



#72 Allan ONLINE  

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Posted Sat Dec 17, 2005 7:48 AM

Its simple to make an in-line SRAM card to add more memory, if you needed it...

It would appear that you might've been able (if released) to buy memory carts to add more memory into your 7800 and then plug your app cart in, I am wondering if eventually Atari would have made some kind of multi-cartridge ports adapter on the top of the 7800 to have 2-3 carts inserted (you have to think - app cart, memory cart/module, and maybe a high score cart too, so...)

To answer the other question about replacing the keypad controllers... its interesting that it was brought up...  I've been messing around with a pic mcu to interface with a standard keyboard to issue our the 4 color sequences of the Atari keyboard controllers for Basic Programming for the 2600...

What I'd REEEEEALLY like to do is work with some on a monitor cart of sorts or maybe a terminal cart to take standard ASCII data and then display on the 2600 screen from a simply z80 based computer system I've been tinkering around making... It would essentially be a computer add-on for the 2600, but there is already plenty of Compumates floating around.



Curt


See, the carts are the other side of the coin in this, they are just ridiculously huge and overpopulated, so the idea is to consolidate them down with a 32x8 SRAM (maybe some  surplus 62256's, 1 meg eprom (27010) and a GAL/PAL for the chip select logic and then a slide switch to select back/forth between VideoWriter and OSS 7800 Basic.

Basic schematic and PAL/GAL  truth table are done for LO_RAM_CS, HI_RAM_CS, RAM_CS and EPROM_CS...

Once I've got the new KB design running all of the original carts correctly, I'll perfboard a proto of the new app cart and make sure it is working.




Curt

   

Would there be anyway to increase the RAM on the RAM carts? Just curious. It would be nice to have 64K or more.

Did you ever figure out what that third cart was from this picture or find anything else interesting in the stuff that the GCC guys gave you at the Vintage Computer Festival East?

Woops, forgot the picture.

Allan

View Post

View Post


Hey, I missed this post. So any program that needs lots of RAM such as BASIC or a terminal program needs to have it on the cart? Interesting.

Allan

View Post

View Post


Yea, I always thought the cart on another cart thing was awkward. Some kind of sub-base unit on top of the main unit would have made more sense. What would have been cool is to make the 7800 modual like some of those prelimanary XL designs. Then you could have plugged in the High-Score-cart, memery carts, program carts, etc. All at once. Maybe even a toggle switch to move from cart to cart.

Allan

Edited by Allan, Sat Dec 17, 2005 7:50 AM.


#73 Ferris OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Dec 17, 2005 9:54 AM

That's not a bad idea. The whole modular aspect of the early Regan Cheng XL designs would have really played well with a modular 7800 system, beyond just a keyboard add-on. Sort of reminds me what Nintendo was planning in 1985 for the Nintendo AVS System. Check it out -

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

#74 Stephen OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Dec 17, 2005 5:28 PM

Very good point!
Can a SIO handle a fater throughput that a 300Bps modem uses??
A modem is kinda low on the list right now (as far as I'm concerned!) I'm more excited by:
1. getting to master a new version of BASIC!!
2. See which ML calls are availible
3. possibly a RS-232 link of some type
4. Run homebrews from an ISO, burned onto a CD, hooked into the standard cassette interface!
5. Just something new to do on my 7800!
6. Proof everlasting that the Tramiels did NOT know what they were doing. I firmly believe the C-64 was the last good idea to ever be in his head!!

WHEW!

View Post


The SIO port han handle up to 19,200, so yeah - a much faster modem could be used. Using APE + SIO2PC on my 130XE computer, I telnet at speeds ranging from 2400 to 9600Bps.

Stephen Anderson

#75 MaDDuck OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Dec 19, 2005 12:34 PM

Can it sub/replace the keyboard controllers?
Does it happen to map to controller functions?

View Post


Just curious why you asked this. Did you have something particular in mind?

Allan

View Post



Not really.....
Just curious, that's all! Besides some original button driven games (asteroids, space invaders, etc...) play better on a KB than a pad/stick

I hope Curt builds these to original spec, as I have a spare 600XL keyboard (NOS) laying around that would be preferable to KB controllers!!




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