What's next for Batari BASIC?

[Jess Ragan]

I'm hearing some interesting things about the next release of Batari BASIC. There's talk that it will support bankswitching, for games up to 32K in size. I don't know what else will be included in the new release, but I'm personally hoping for the ability to display more sprites onscreen at once.

 

Batari, would you care to divulge more about the upcoming release of your most excellent 2600 programming environment?

 

JR

[+batari]

I'm hearing some interesting things about the next release of Batari BASIC.  There's talk that it will support bankswitching, for games up to 32K in size.  I don't know what else will be included in the new release, but I'm personally hoping for the ability to display more sprites onscreen at once.

 

Batari, would you care to divulge more about the upcoming release of your most excellent 2600 programming environment?

 

JR

986320[/snapback]

The WIP version on my hard drive supports bankswitching and it works. I'm working on optimizations still. I've relocated the graphics and can align them in preparation for the multisprite kernel (I hope to get it working tonight or tomorrow.) Definitely there will be bugfixes and minor features.

 

I *hope* but don't promise to get a text kernel (you will get a 12x12 screen that you can print to using PRINT statements), a few alternative kernels based on the main kernel (color striping, paddles, playfield in ROM: all with something else taken out, of course), PAL support, and hopefully, basic AtariVOX voice support.

 

Well, on that last one, I can't get an AtariVOX until late January, so I need someone with an Avox who can test binaries for me... any volunteers? Here's a sample binary - I have no idea if it will work, but if it will, it will produce a blank screen but will talk when you press the fire button. Let me know.

 

 

EDIT: change to the test Avox file... forgot to add the "end of phrase" character. I still have no idea if it will work...

avox.bas.bin

Edited December 21, 2005 by batari

[vdub_bobby]

and hopefully, basic AtariVOX voice support.

 

Fantastic! That is really cool!

 

I'd test it, except I don't have a CC or similar.

 

Something to consider adding also is support for the memory on the AVox/Memory card. Supporting save states would be pretty sweet.

[+Random Terrain]

I *hope* but don't promise to get a text kernel (you will get a 12x12 screen that you can print to using PRINT statements)

986475[/snapback]

That will be cool whenever you can do that. The things I'll also be happy to have in the future are multicolored sprites and smaller Playfield Pixels. Do you think we will ever have multicolored Playfield Pixels of any size?

[potatohead]

The WIP version on my hard drive supports bankswitching and it works.  I'm working on optimizations still.  I've relocated the graphics and can align them in preparation for the multisprite kernel (I hope to get it working tonight or tomorrow.)  Definitely there will be bugfixes and minor features.

All great stuff. The extra address space is going to seem just huge! Funny how that stuff works.

 

I *hope* but don't promise to get a text kernel (you will get a 12x12 screen that you can print to using PRINT statements), a few alternative kernels based on the main kernel (color striping, paddles, playfield in ROM: all with something else taken out, of course), PAL support, and hopefully, basic AtariVOX voice support.

 

Interesting on the text! Looks like I'll be wanting an AtariVOX as well. Always wanted to put speech in a game. I'll bet it can be used for sounds too.

 

Thanks for your hard work. For what it's worth, I have a ton of fun working with the results! Each release has really opened a lot of doors if you think about it. Going from alpha 0.1 to 2 was big. From 2 to 3 fleshed out language features and it seemed that was going to be a plateau. This next version is just as big of a jump.

 

Damn cool, that's all I'm trying to say. Much appreciated.

 

Merry xmas! (don't work too hard!)

Edited December 21, 2005 by potatohead

[Jess Ragan]

If you have to make sacrifices in this release of Batari BASIC, I honestly think AtariVOX support should be on the top of the list. No offense to the creators of this peripheral, but you should concentrate on squeezing the most power out of the barebones Atari 2600 before tackling the add-ons.

 

Thanks for all the hard work on Batari BASIC, by the way!

 

JR

Edited December 21, 2005 by Jess Ragan

[Richard H.]

If you have to make sacrifices in this release of Batari BASIC, I honestly think AtariVOX support should be on the top of the list

 

[+Random Terrain]

If you have to make sacrifices in this release of Batari BASIC, I honestly think AtariVOX support should be on the top of the list

986590[/snapback]

I don't have one. Do you? How many people have one? Support for it is at the bottom of my wish list since I will probably never have one unless it comes built into a new Flashback Atari 2600.

[Richard H.]

I don't have one. Do you?

Er, yes

 

 

How many people have one?

There's about 50 out there, 25 that Albert sold through AA and about the same I sold / gave away to developers and friends.

 

 

Well, on that last one, I can't get an AtariVOX until late January

Batari, I can't help with the AtariVox (I have only one left), but I'll send you a complimentary MemCard to play around with (PM me your shipping address)

[+Random Terrain]

I don't have one. Do you?

Er, yes

Oh, so you must have created them or had something to do with them. Good job there little buddy.

 

 

How many people have one?

There's about 50 out there, 25 that Albert sold through AA and about the same I sold / gave away to developers and friends.

986622[/snapback]

Oh my God! 50???!!! That's a huge number of people! Stop the presses! We need to make this the number one priority! Like I said, unless Atari is going to make it part of a new Flashback Atari 2600 so that millions of people will have it, who cares? Why would I want to worry about what 50 people can hear? Seems like a huge waste of time.

Edited December 21, 2005 by Random Terrain

[Richard H.]

Seems like a huge waste of time.

Thanks for the encouragement, I really appreciate it

[+Random Terrain]

Seems like a huge waste of time.

Thanks for the encouragement, I really appreciate it

986746[/snapback]

If you can get it in the hands of more people, a lot more, then I'll be all for it.

[potatohead]

Seems like a huge waste of time.

Thanks for the encouragement, I really appreciate it

986746[/snapback]

 

How can I get one?

 

Pushing the edge is what this is all about. Personally, I find new 2600 hardware to be very cool and interesting. --well worth the efforts.

 

I've got some dollars set aside for Supercats RAM cart, and would love to own one of these as well!

 

It is possible to build one easy enough?

Edited December 21, 2005 by potatohead

[+Random Terrain]

Pushing the edge is what this is all about.  Personally, I find new 2600 hardware to be very cool and interesting.  --well worth the efforts.

986982[/snapback]

That's different. Creating new hardware can be a good thing, but programming for a peripheral that almost no one has is kind of like spitting in the wind. batari can add all of the obscure features he wants; it's his language. It just seems like a waste of time unless you guys know something I don't. Is this a wink, wink, nudge, nudge situation?

Edited December 21, 2005 by Random Terrain

[supercat]

Seems like a huge waste of time.

Thanks for the encouragement, I really appreciate it

986746[/snapback]

If you can get it in the hands of more people, a lot more, then I'll be all for it.

986757[/snapback]

 

There's something of a chicken-egg problem. No point in many people buying an Atarivox if no software supports it, and not much point in developers supporting it if nobody has one.

 

Fortunately, Strat-O-Gems supports the Atarivox and is just so cool everyone needs to get one. Unfortunately, they're out of stock but should hopefully be available again soon.

[+Random Terrain]

There's something of a chicken-egg problem.  No point in many people buying an Atarivox if no software supports it, and not much point in developers supporting it if nobody has one.

986994[/snapback]

Oh, it's an if we build it, they will come kind of thing. Has an emulator emulated it yet? That might help sell it.

[+batari]

Seems like a huge waste of time.

Thanks for the encouragement, I really appreciate it

986746[/snapback]

It is possible to build one easy enough?

986982[/snapback]

For now, I think you can just buy a Speakjet chip ($20 if you buy here, $25 elsewhere) and it's like 4 wires to the 2600 and a couple for the speaker (I think - don't quote me on this.) This isn't a complete Avox, though, just the voice part... The real Avox also has 32k of nonvolatile memory.

[supercat]

Oh, it's an if we build it, they will come kind of thing. Has an emulator emulated it yet? That might help sell it.

986999[/snapback]

 

No emulator yet supports it. Part of the reason the "Deluxe" part of Strat-O-Gems Deluxe took longer (in coding time, not calendar time!) to develop than the original game.

[Dan Iacovelli]

speech wow, that a big thing for me since most of my games I did on the Ti-99/4a was done with speech(including laser man)

(btw: I was watching megaman axess a few weeks ago and they had

an villian on it called Laserman (only differnce is that mine is not a villian,but both are from the furure)

anyways, now I have to AVOX for my 2600 so Icould test my game speech when you do it.

(the print feature will be cool to have as well for title screens and like that)

[Jess Ragan]

If you have to make sacrifices in this release of Batari BASIC, I honestly think AtariVOX support should be on the top of the list

 

986590[/snapback]

 

I don't mean to devalue your work, Richard... it's very cool that you've made a speech synthesis unit for the 2600. My only issue is that, as Random Terrain already mentioned, few people who own 2600s also own an AtariVOX peripheral. It'll be great to include support for the peripheral in a later release of Batari BASIC, but right now, I feel that Batari should, well, focus on the basics.

 

JR

[potatohead]

I disagree. Push it and push it all hard.

 

Those Voxers will test and develop and those without won't. (I am likely just gonna build the speech part and wait until actual units are again for sale.

 

I seriously doubt any other feature will be lacking to a degree that actually matters to anyone if Vox support is intermixed at this time. --and if it does, well help out then, or wait. It's not like plenty can't be done with Bb right now.

 

One can add their own kernels, trigger a Vox and bankswitch right now. This next release just makes that stuff easier.

 

It's Batari's effort and he should be free to do what feeds the soul in that regard. It's not like he is getting paid. (Though I'm gonna donate Ooze royalties to Bb, once I get to a release state.)

 

I didn't think twice about getting one of these until I saw some recent games supporting it and had a request / suggestion for my own game. Thinking about it a bit, I realize the Vox could add a lot of value, and it's fun! If we prioritize according to the hardware for the masses, we then marginalize efforts to extend the fun.

[Richard H.]

I don't mean to devalue your work, Richard... it's very cool that you've made a speech synthesis unit for the 2600

I know, it's OK

 

Like Supercat said it's 'chicken and egg', it's hard to get lots of the units out there without a 'killer app' to kickstart demand.

 

I know Strat-O-Gems will have a positive effect, as it's the first game to REALLY use the AVox (the replay feature being something not possible without the unit).

 

Adding AVox support to BB now can only be a positive thing in the long term.

[Richard H.]

so I need someone with an Avox who can test binaries for me... any volunteers? Here's a sample binary - I have no idea if it will work, but if it will, it will produce a blank screen but will talk when you press the fire button. Let me know.

I just tried it, and when I pressed fire got a stream of sounds / allophones, not random but not words.

 

Perhaps the baud rate is off a little in the driver code ?

[~llama]

I know, it's OK 

 

Like Supercat said it's 'chicken and egg', it's hard to get lots of the units out there without a 'killer app' to kickstart demand.

 

I know Strat-O-Gems will have a positive effect, as it's the first game to REALLY use the AVox (the replay feature being something not possible without the unit).

 

Adding AVox support to BB now can only be a positive thing in the long term.

987461[/snapback]

 

And I've been looking at methods for saving games from the 7800 with it since receiving my donated MemCard

 

To defend Richard in his zeal for the AVox, he really is doing the best he can to get people to adopt the AVox and MemCard, and if the things I'm kicking around ever see the light of day (which, at this point is doubtful ) I'll support it.

[vdub_bobby]

Just to add my own two cents here...

 

First of all, 50 people is a lot. I'd bet that most homebrew games don't sell many more than 50 copies. Maybe in the 50-100 range.

 

2nd of all, I don't think you appreciate the coolness of the AVox/Memcard. It is like having a memory card for your 2600! How cool is that? The speech hasn't been truly tapped yet, I don't think, but you could do a heck of a lot of really cool things with a 32K binary and an AVox.

 

Finally, lay off the sarcasm. What's the point? Batari, Richard, all the homebrew authors are doing what they love, and are kind enough to take suggestions from, and share with, everybody else. And you give them a bunch of crap in return because they don't do what you want? News flash: they don't work for you.