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River Raid Ending?


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#51 StanJr OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Mar 24, 2010 1:45 PM

Oh snap! That is sweet! A complete map of River Raid would be HUGE! And very cool. Who would even think of such a thing! kisrael, you rock!

:spidey:

#52 rbudrick OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun May 15, 2011 10:57 PM

Oh snap! That is sweet! A complete map of River Raid would be HUGE! And very cool. Who would even think of such a thing! kisrael, you rock!

:spidey:


I remember playing River Raid back in 1998 or so on an emulator and using a hack for unlimited lives or invincibility or something. I do remember the river repeating several times before I got to !!!!!!. So, I'm a bit confused by this thread where folks are saying it is random and doesn't repeat.

-Rob

#53 Nukey Shay OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun May 15, 2011 11:46 PM

The opposite was stated.

So I guess this answers the questions others have had then... is it at level 57338 that the game goes haywire?

No, it just repeats.



#54 rbudrick OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon May 16, 2011 10:14 PM

The opposite was stated.

So I guess this answers the questions others have had then... is it at level 57338 that the game goes haywire?

No, it just repeats.


Perhaps I'm misunderstanding what is meant by "levels." This doesn't mean bridge to bridge, does it? Because I didn't think it took that long at all to make it repeat.

-Rob

#55 Thomas Jentzsch OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue May 17, 2011 4:41 AM

From my River Raid disassembly:

Section generation:
; The river is divided into sections which are generated by random. The random
; number generator can generate 57337 different sections. Each section is
; divided into 16 blocks. The last block is the bridge. For each other block a
; random Id is generated, which defines the shape of the river. The river is
; randomly generated with or without islands.
; Each block is 32 lines high...



#56 rbudrick OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue May 17, 2011 10:06 PM

From my River Raid disassembly:

Section generation:
; The river is divided into sections which are generated by random. The random
; number generator can generate 57337 different sections. Each section is
; divided into 16 blocks. The last block is the bridge. For each other block a
; random Id is generated, which defines the shape of the river. The river is
; randomly generated with or without islands.
; Each block is 32 lines high...


I'm not sure off the top of my head how many screens that amounts to. Does this mean all 57337 combinations get used, being "random?" Or, does it not use all 57337 and start repeating before that?

-Rob

#57 maiki OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri May 20, 2011 6:33 AM

I guess another topic for hacks. Change the code so that the score / game does not crash. There would be many candidates for this fix.

#58 sermajic OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri May 20, 2011 9:53 PM

There's a video on youtube of the ending of river raid 2600, you land!

#59 Thomas Jentzsch OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat May 21, 2011 12:48 AM

There's a video on youtube of the ending of river raid 2600, you land!

No, you don't. Only the score is set to !!!!!! when you passed 999990 points and the game stops.

#60 Matthew OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat May 21, 2011 3:37 AM

River raid ending

#61 Thomas Jentzsch OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat May 21, 2011 3:47 AM

100% fake

#62 slapdash OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Sep 10, 2011 2:15 PM

Fake yes, but TOTALLY fake, or is there a ROM out there?

#63 Lord Tom OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Feb 15, 2013 3:11 PM

I made a "complete" map using some emulator scripting (600 sections should be enough to get to 1 million):
https://dl.dropbox.c...omplete map.png

Those who enjoy the game might also like this emulator-assisted speed-run (TAS) that gets to 100k as fast as possible:


I'm currently writing a bot to get to 1 million. Will post if/when that effort is done.

#64 thegoldenband OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Feb 15, 2013 3:44 PM

^Awesome! I've wondered in the past why no one had ever targeted the VCS for a TAS, so I'm very glad to see it happening.

It looks like the Atari 2600 section on TASVideos has nine games so far, which'll be ten if your River Raid run is added. In the thread I linked above (which I started, and which went absolutely nowhere) I mention Pitfall, Private Eye, and Miniature Golf as possibilities that intrigued me.

#65 Lord Tom OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Feb 15, 2013 4:36 PM

Thanks! It was only in the past several months that an atari 2600 emulator with the necessary features for making TAS's (BizHawk) became available. You may have noticed the tasvideos atari section has a "wishlist" thread, if you'd like to post suggestions:

http://tasvideos.org...pic.php?t=13374

I was interested to read on this forum players reporting having actually beaten River Raid, and that it took about 3.5 hours. Based on the 100k TAS, a million point effort would be just over 80 minutes.

#66 Lord Tom OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Mar 31, 2015 7:09 PM

Here's a complete movie I made (TAS using emulator/savestates, NOT realtime) of River Raid being beaten very quickly from start to finish; just under 83 minutes.

 

https://youtu.be/GXEmPenZN0g


Edited by Lord Tom, Tue Mar 31, 2015 7:12 PM.


#67 Supergun OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Apr 8, 2015 5:44 PM

River raid ending

Fake yes, but TOTALLY fake, or is there a ROM out there?

This went unanswered & I also have the same question. Like, was it photographic fakery, frame by frame editing, or an actual edited / hacked 2600 bin they took the time to assemble that does just what the video shows.

Either way, I don't know why, but I have always loved that video. It just gives off a certain vibe that feels real, despite knowing it's not. I think it's the simplicity of it that makes it come off as authentic. The type of exuberance & excitement they have, jumping up & down, barefoot!, the pile of carts on the floor, the old TV, etc. For whatever reason just adds to the realism. You know, like it's almost pretty much how my genuine reaction would have been as it was happening. That sweaty palms / nervous elation feeling. I felt it when I first found the magic dot & secret room in adventure. Also felt it when I completed Fathom.

Somehow, the video captures that perfectly.

Very few Atari games gave "closure". NES era is what brought that about. (game endings) So the few that did, despite the limitations, still felt like accomplishments to me.

Edited by Supergun, Wed Apr 8, 2015 5:52 PM.


#68 kisrael OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jul 12, 2017 8:15 PM

BTW, Lord Tom is way too modest in what he accomplished. He rewrote the damn engine in Java and got a script to try bajillions of permutations to get the fastest possible 'bot playing ....

I've been messaging with him, and I've written up what he said, as well as an overview of the game and Carol Shaw,
http://kirkdev.blogs...-no-return.html



#69 Rom Hunter OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jul 13, 2017 3:34 AM

BTW, Lord Tom is way too modest in what he accomplished. He rewrote the damn engine in Java and got a script to try bajillions of permutations to get the fastest possible 'bot playing ....

I've been messaging with him, and I've written up what he said, as well as an overview of the game and Carol Shaw,
http://kirkdev.blogs...-no-return.html

 

Thanks for sharing!

 

8)


Edited by Rom Hunter, Thu Jul 13, 2017 3:36 AM.


#70 davyK OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jul 13, 2017 5:52 AM

I remember maxing out Megamania and found it rewarding for the game to end - so I'm glad they chose to do that with their games.

 

For River Raid it might have been nice for Activision to add an extra game variation that starts with a random seed. Would have added a bit of extra value for those who maxed the game out.



#71 davyK OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jul 13, 2017 8:00 AM

Could be a nice hack version of the game.


Edited by davyK, Thu Jul 13, 2017 8:02 AM.


#72 vidak OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Jul 16, 2017 7:23 AM

You can always try assembling Thomas's minidig decompile with a different seed. It's not hard!

#73 davyK OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Jul 16, 2017 11:56 AM

But it would be nicer to add an extra game mode that uses a random seed. I suspect you would need to find too many spare bytes to do that?
 

Maybe I should check the assembly out. I've only done PAL60 conversions up to now - that would be a nice step up for me.



#74 Thomas Jentzsch OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Jul 16, 2017 12:25 PM

But it would be nicer to add an extra game mode that uses a random seed. I suspect you would need to find too many spare bytes to do that?

Since the random generator is not perfect (else it would create 64k-1 screens before repeating), you better fix that too. Else your random seed might end in a very short sequence. Alternatively you could allow starting every e.g. 100 bridges.

For getting enough space, I suggest you start with removing the screen saver code (like I did for Pitfall!x256). That should provide some ROM and RAM.



#75 davyK OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Jul 16, 2017 12:39 PM

Since the random generator is not perfect (else it would create 64k-1 screens before repeating), you better fix that too. Else your random seed might end in a very short sequence. Alternatively you could allow starting every e.g. 100 bridges.

For getting enough space, I suggest you start with removing the screen saver code (like I did for Pitfall!x256). That should provide some ROM and RAM.

 

Noticed your disassembly has a switch for adding in 4 NOPs if disabling screensaver so that would be a start!

 

You also show two memory locations storing constants that might free up a byte or two of RAM.
 

Coding this would be a big step up from PAL60 changes. I don't believe it means messing about in the kernel (I hope) apart from maybe displaying the game version number when SELECT is pressed? Maybe I should give it a go.


Edited by davyK, Sun Jul 16, 2017 12:47 PM.





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