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NEW MIO production run.


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#26 Mathy OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jun 7, 2006 5:09 PM

Howdy Kevin

Check this out...

Posted Image

Special thanks to Almost Rice for letting me borrow his....


Did you already add some lines? My extender is also a REV 1, but some connections are missing.

BTW, check out the trace just below pin 3. It looks like there's a gap.

Greetings

Mathy

Edited by Mathy, Wed Jun 7, 2006 5:10 PM.


#27 MEtalGuy66 OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jun 7, 2006 6:48 PM

Did you already add some lines? My extender is also a REV 1, but some connections are missing.

What you see there is 100% exactly the way Almost Rice's original ICD EXTNDR is made.


BTW, check out the trace just below pin 3. It looks like there's a gap.



YEah.. That would be my shitty screen-grabber program's fault...

Its only meant to be a rough representation of the board layout. The actual PCB design software has it in MUCH MUCH finer detail. (.001" accuracy)

And yes, I did measure the board with calipers. It is guranateed to "fit like a glove".

#28 Guitarman OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jun 7, 2006 7:01 PM

What is the specs for the PS? I just got a MIO and it did not include a PS.


It uses the standard PS for Atari drives, printers, 1200XL, etc.



I have played with some of the settings and I could not SDX to format it. I think I need the disk for the MIO.


If needed, I have the original ICD MIO disk. I can make an ATR of it for you if you would like.

With SDX, the MIO should format as a ramdisk. You can then set it up as a boot device. Leave the MIO power on and the Atari should boot to the ramdisk in the MIO.

Edited by Guitarman, Wed Jun 7, 2006 7:02 PM.


#29 Almost Rice OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jun 7, 2006 7:57 PM

<snip>
It uses the standard PS for Atari drives, printers, 1200XL, etc.
<snip>
If needed, I have the original ICD MIO disk. I can make an ATR of it for you if you would like.

With SDX, the MIO should format as a ramdisk. You can then set it up as a boot device. Leave the MIO power on and the Atari should boot to the ramdisk in the MIO.


I found that out on a later post. Also I do need the disk image. I think MetalGuy would need it eventually. I wanted the RD.com that would work with the MyIDE and BeweDos.

Edited by Almost Rice, Wed Jun 7, 2006 8:02 PM.


#30 Guitarman OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jun 7, 2006 10:30 PM

Ok. I'll get an image together for the MIO disk.

#31 sup8pdct OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jun 8, 2006 1:50 AM

Actually, I dont know. heh. The one I have for R&D didnt come with one either.. But.. looking at the design, it has a full-wave rectifier, and uses a 7805 regulator for the +5v, and a 78L15 for the +15v.. Both these devices have a max input voltage of 35v.. The 7805 is a 1amp regulator, and the 78l15 is 100ma... So to be safe, Id say the psu should be able to deliver between 18-30volts AC, 1000ma... Theres no way the device will draw this much current, but for stability's sake....
[/quote]


I dug out my MIO and had a look at it. Mine doesn't have a 78L15 (VR2) , C42, C43, D6, D1, J8, J7 or J10 installed.
I does have a couple of extra capactors soldered directly to chips , a resistor from TP3 to Gnd and some small wires added.
Pic here http://www.eftel.com...up8pdct/mio.htm It was for the never released 80 colum board.

one thing the MIO does that the BB doesn't is invert the data sent via the scsi bus (and the printer port) hence data stored on the HDD is also inverted due to the MIO hardware design. That means commands sent to the HDD controller must be inverted by the driver before being sent. That is why the BB has a MIO compatiability mode.

James

#32 sup8pdct OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jun 8, 2006 1:57 AM

What is the specs for the PS? I just got a MIO and it did not include a PS.


Actually, I dont know. heh. The one I have for R&D didnt come with one either.. But.. looking at the design, it has a full-wave rectifier, and uses a 7805 regulator for the +5v, and a 78L15 for the +15v.. Both these devices have a max input voltage of 35v.. The 7805 is a 1amp regulator, and the 78l15 is 100ma... So to be safe, Id say the psu should be able to deliver between 18-30volts AC, 1000ma... Theres no way the device will draw this much current, but for stability's sake....



I ran mine from 9VAC ie a 1050 power supply. It worked fine, even the serial port. Mine doesn't have the 78L15 (re earlier post). also it the 78L15 is at the end of a voltage trippler circuit so 9V ac is fine.

James

#33 Mathy OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jun 8, 2006 11:11 AM

Howdy Kevin

Did you already add some lines? My extender is also a REV 1, but some connections are missing.

What you see there is 100% exactly the way Almost Rice's original ICD EXTNDR is made.


Oops, silly me. The green traces are the traces on the BACK of the Extender. Sorry!

greetings

Mathy

#34 MEtalGuy66 OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jun 8, 2006 11:15 AM

Excellent picture...
This is the latest serial number build I have seen to date..

Notice the larger, higher wattage diodes in the rectifier stage, and how the board is not delaminated, or discolored there. (good fix. Where have I heard that before? heheh)

Notice the "blue wires" done on the component side of the board this time, instead of the back side.. This is a propogation timing fix for the A8 adress line. It runs through 2 extra inverter gates in series (pins 1-4 on U7) to delay the assertion of A8 slightly within the bus cycle. All MIOs have this, but its wired on the solder side of the board on earlier built units.

Notice the 2 extra 33pF caps on U1... This is the first Ive seen of this..

Notice that none of the extra pin headers (extra power, video, or extra 50pin bus) are populated.. Also notice that the 2 electrolytic caps and 2 diodes (voltage doubler) as well as the 78l15 regulator are left out. And.... The DB9 external Video connector is left off!!! By this stage in the game (serial number 1688,) ICD was DEFINITELY not planing to put an 80 column card in this box.

Kewl picture. Thanks alot. I will add it to my collection.

#35 MEtalGuy66 OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jun 8, 2006 1:49 PM

Ok. I have figured the cost of making the ICD EXTNDR board, at $40.00US each, including shipping!

BUT... In order to get the parts & boards at this cost, I have to have at least 12 orders..

Im starting a separate thread for this board..

see "New XE PBI EXTNDR production Run" to order.

#36 Mathy OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jun 8, 2006 4:13 PM

Howdy Kevin, folks

Check out this Polish site for some picture of how the original MIO interface looks (with case) and another "inside look".

Greetings

Mathy

#37 drac030 OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jun 8, 2006 4:33 PM

Hmm, Mathy. These photos have been made by JR> and posted here in this topic: http://www.atariage....showtopic=76383 There's even a notice left about it in the article you cited (see the bottom of the page).

Edited by drac030, Thu Jun 8, 2006 4:33 PM.


#38 sup8pdct OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Jun 11, 2006 10:55 PM

Excellent picture...
This is the latest serial number build I have seen to date..

Notice the larger, higher wattage diodes in the rectifier stage, and how the board is not delaminated, or discolored there. (good fix. Where have I heard that before? heheh)

Notice the "blue wires" done on the component side of the board this time, instead of the back side.. This is a propogation timing fix for the A8 adress line. It runs through 2 extra inverter gates in series (pins 1-4 on U7) to delay the assertion of A8 slightly within the bus cycle. All MIOs have this, but its wired on the solder side of the board on earlier built units.

Notice the 2 extra 33pF caps on U1... This is the first Ive seen of this..

Notice that none of the extra pin headers (extra power, video, or extra 50pin bus) are populated.. Also notice that the 2 electrolytic caps and 2 diodes (voltage doubler) as well as the 78l15 regulator are left out. And.... The DB9 external Video connector is left off!!! By this stage in the game (serial number 1688,) ICD was DEFINITELY not planing to put an 80 column card in this box.

Kewl picture. Thanks alot. I will add it to my collection.



Those extra caps soldered directly to the chips are to make it stable. Apperantly, ICD used to add caps to make it stable before shipping them out. I found I had to add extra ones my self to make it stable for both XL and XE. also note that one of them isn't connected to anything. PS. one cap has 33 on it, the other one has 68.

James

#39 MEtalGuy66 OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jun 12, 2006 10:40 AM

Those extra caps soldered directly to the chips are to make it stable. Apperantly, ICD used to add caps to make it stable before shipping them out. I found I had to add extra ones my self to make it stable for both XL and XE. also note that one of them isn't connected to anything. PS. one cap has 33 on it, the other one has 68.

James


Yeah. Thats a pretty common practise. I was just commenting that this later serial number build is the first Ive seen with extra caps in that particular location. The extra cap on U5 is fairly common.

Edited by MEtalGuy66, Mon Jun 12, 2006 10:43 AM.


#40 mio2repair OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Jun 25, 2006 7:30 AM

Hello,
I have some old MIo's to repair.
I am unsure what rom I have and would like to know the difference between them what byte is changed to what and also what the schematic is to trace the problems as they have ben attempted to repair by someone else before.
If I could get a blank board like you are making just in case there is too much wrong to figure one of these out what would you want?
There may be a chance your board will not work with more than 256k.
Is there refresh for the high addess lines or is there some reason you would not need to add it?
Thank You

#41 MEtalGuy66 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Jun 25, 2006 11:45 PM

Hello,
I have some old MIo's to repair.
I am unsure what rom I have and would like to know the difference between them what byte is changed to what and also what the schematic is to trace the problems as they have ben attempted to repair by someone else before.


I have binaries for both Roms (the 256k and the 1024k versions) You are welcome to them. give me an email adress.

If I could get a blank board like you are making just in case there is too much wrong to figure one of these out what would you want?

$150.00 for a fully populated one. Thats the only way they are being sold, as the situation currently stands. Keep watching this forum, for updates though, because that may change.

There may be a chance your board will not work with more than 256k.

Uhhh. You are wrong about that.

Is there refresh for the high addess lines or is there some reason you would not need to add it?

All Drams made within the last oh... 20 years or so are auto-refresh. Notice Im using a 30 pin SIMM... Not the original SIPP rams. All you need (and all there is lines for) on a SIMM module is adress, data, parity(if used which I am not), and CAS/RAS.

Thank You


Your welcome, but please PM me with any further comments, or post them in the other MIO threads. This thread is specifically for updated information on the New MIO production run. There are several other MIO related threads and plenty of people on here who'd be glad to offer their expertise/help as far as repair tips & strategies.

Edited by MEtalGuy66, Sun Jun 25, 2006 11:53 PM.


#42 MEtalGuy66 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Jun 25, 2006 11:59 PM

Thanks

Edited by MEtalGuy66, Wed Jun 28, 2006 12:39 PM.


#43 MEtalGuy66 OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jun 26, 2006 5:40 PM

JULY 1st is the CUTOFF DATE FOR ORDERING THIS BOARD!

paypal to kjones66@earthlink.net

MIO Mainboard, fully populated/tested functional is $150.00US

MIO Mainboard + XE PBI EXTNDR board is $190.00US

#44 atari4all OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jun 27, 2006 2:26 PM

JULY 1st is the CUTOFF DATE FOR ORDERING THIS BOARD!

paypal to kjones66@earthlink.net

MIO Mainboard, fully populated/tested functional is $150.00US

MIO Mainboard + XE PBI EXTNDR board is $190.00US


Not trying to rain on the MIO parade but all this seems VERY risky. To skip the prototype phase of a design
and go straight into production is not well advised. Even if you have verified every part of the circuit with
the origional, that in no way guarantee's that your board will work. Don't get me wrong, I am not questioning
your ability at all, its just that there are always gotcha's in any hardware design project. Assuming that the
hardware does work there is still the issue of finding hard disk drives that will work with the old SASI/SCSI
interface of the MIO. Even when the MIO was first released by ICD there were only a handful of the many
SCSI drives available that would actually work.

atari4all

#45 MEtalGuy66 OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jun 27, 2006 5:39 PM

JULY 1st is the CUTOFF DATE FOR ORDERING THIS BOARD!

paypal to kjones66@earthlink.net

MIO Mainboard, fully populated/tested functional is $150.00US

MIO Mainboard + XE PBI EXTNDR board is $190.00US


Not trying to rain on the MIO parade but all this seems VERY risky. To skip the prototype phase of a design
and go straight into production is not well advised. Even if you have verified every part of the circuit with
the origional, that in no way guarantee's that your board will work. Don't get me wrong, I am not questioning
your ability at all, its just that there are always gotcha's in any hardware design project. Assuming that the
hardware does work there is still the issue of finding hard disk drives that will work with the old SASI/SCSI
interface of the MIO. Even when the MIO was first released by ICD there were only a handful of the many
SCSI drives available that would actually work.

atari4all


Yeah those points have already been stated several times, and as far as skipping the prototype phase, thats not what's been done here.

You have zero knowldege of what I have or haven't "prototyped", or any of the work that has been done by me or others, which has culminated in the final production spec of this product.

If you look at my reputation, of all the things Ive built and sold in the atari community, not to mention a 100% EBAY rating, I think you can take my word when I promise to deliver a 100% funtional and tested unit.
I also think, in light of the fact that I myself did the work on the layout of the new board, that I can confidently say that its a 100% electrical equivelant to the original design, and any issues that may arise will be
due to parts tolerances and/or changes in operating characteristics of more recently produced devices verus their 1987-1990 counterparts. I am fully prepared to deal with this during the assembly/testing phase, and have made ample allowances in both time and funding, as well as flexibility of build options and parts selection. Or As the locals put it, "This ain't my first Rodeo." I also think in light of the previous work Ive done with various production date MIOs, I am fully aware of the inherent "temperamentality" of the design, and am fully qualified to asess the "risk", as you put it.

As far as the SCSI device compatability issue, That is an inherant characteristic of the original design. Anyone who uses an MIO has to locate the appropriate additional hardware (drives, mfm-scsi controllers, etc.) to create a complete hardisk system. Original MIOs sell for quite a bit on EBAY.. In fact several times what I am charging for these boards. Nowhere have I represented that an MIO will work with all SCSI hardisks, and anyone who buys one of these is fully aware that what they are getting is a 100% functional equivelant to the original MIO interface. The purpose for this project, which Ive stated several times on this thread, is to make this device available to people who want one, for a decent price. Regardles of the shortcommings of the MIO, it is still the best supported hardisk interface for the ATARI 8-bit, especially from a spartados standpoint.

I hope this dispells any doubts you may have created in the minds of the people who had the good faith and guts to support me in this project.

But if thats not enough, I will personally guarantee full refund of 100% of EVERYONE's money in the event that I cannot deliver 100% functional, compatable, and tested STABLE units.


The people who have put their money forward in good faith here have my word and reputation to back them, and I really don't appreciate the pesimistic comments especially in light of the fact that there are possibly people on here with a lesser understanding of the nature of these projects than you or I.

I also notice, that whoever you are, you actually went through the trouble to create an new account on here today JUST to post this message, did not post any other messages to any other threads, and that all of the information in your user profile has been left empty, or kept anonymous. This leads me to believe that if in fact you are a person with any degree of credibility, knowledge, or personal experience to back what you've said, that you need to seriously GROW SOME BALLS and post under your normal account. If you just happen to be someone who coincidentally logged onto this forum for the first time, and happened to stumble apon this thread, and post only this single message on this thread, out of the entire forum, then you should at least enlighten me as to who you are, and on what basis you choose to criticize my ability to deliver what I have promised (because regardless of your "rain on the parade" disclaimer, that's exactly what you are doing.) I would really prefer you didn't do it here, as this thread is specifically for the purpose of following the PROGRESS of this project and providing updates to those who have invested their money. I'd really prefer it not become a controversy thread debating the specifics of how I choose to develop/produce the products.

That said.. Thank you for your advice...

Edited by MEtalGuy66, Tue Jun 27, 2006 6:29 PM.


#46 Guitarman OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jun 27, 2006 6:07 PM

In support:

Not knowing Ken that well but based on his reputation in the Atari community, I agreed to send my non-working MIO to him to help facilitate this project, as he offered to fix it in the process. Please note that being the Atari fanatic I am, a non-working MIO in my collection (which has been its condition for many years) is worth much more to me than none at all. Base on his reputation, I did not once have any doubt that I would see my precious MIO again, let alone the fact it would actually function again after almost 15+ years. For my gratitude for fixing my original MIO, I am also purchasing a new MIO board along with the XE-Extender (which was neither asked for or nessesary). I have purchased other products from Ken before (stereo pokey board) and he has done nothing short of creating superb products to keep our precious Atari system functional and expanding.

Will I continue to drop my money on untested, unprototyped pieces of hardware? If Ken has designed and built it, you can count on it!!

Edited by Guitarman, Tue Jun 27, 2006 6:08 PM.


#47 jaybird3rd ONLINE  

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Posted Tue Jun 27, 2006 8:30 PM

I must express my support for this endeavor also. In placing my preorder with Ken, I never had the slightest concern about the feasibility of this project or the quality of the product, mostly because Ken's reputation in this community speaks for itself. As someone who never owned an original MIO and is not very familiar with the older SCSI disk technology it was designed for, I did have some questions about it, but I found Ken to be very friendly and patient in answering what I'm sure he thought were stupid n00b questions from a potential buyer. Anyone who is on the fence about placing an order (and we only need two more of you to make this initial production run happen) shouldn't hesitate any longer.

I can't help but wonder if somebody could make some money taking a few more high-res photos like the ones earlier in this thread, reverse-engineering the thing, and building some clones.

I made the above comment (which was almost meant to be a joke at the time) in another thread last November, after hearing about the outrageous prices for old MIO boxes on eBay. I'm amazed at the time and effort that Ken has spent since then to make a new production run possible, and I'm grateful to him for making it available to the community at a fair price. I'm certainly looking forward to receiving mine!

#48 Almost Rice OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jun 27, 2006 10:29 PM

Will I continue to drop my money on untested, unprototyped pieces of hardware? If Ken has designed and built it, you can count on it!!


I was not interested in these types of upgrades until I saw the type of work Ken does. I am lucky to have Ken and warerat in the same city let alone only 1 mile from Ken and 5 miles from warerat. I have been bless to come back to Atari at this time. I will be waiting for when Ken makes another run of the Pokey upgrades. Actually, in Feb when he brought the dual Pokey boards out, he had just created his account and I did not know anything about him. I would have bought one if I knew him better.






I must express my support for this endeavor also. In placing my preorder with Ken, I never had the slightest

I can't help but wonder if somebody could make some money taking a few more high-res photos like the ones earlier in this thread, reverse-engineering the thing, and building some clones.

I made the above comment (which was almost meant to be a joke at the time) in another thread last November, after hearing about the outrageous prices for old MIO boxes on eBay. I'm amazed at the time and effort that Ken has spent since then to make a new production run possible, and I'm grateful to him for making it available to the community at a fair price. I'm certainly looking forward to receiving mine!


I remember the Nov. 7th auction that went over $700. I was watching to bid on that, but 700 is too rich for me. Lets just say Ken is an artist and his medium is an Atari. We are just blessed to have him share with the rest of us. Just being around him has piqued my interest in modding my Ataris. I just hope I have enough time and money to devote to it. Nothing compared to him. He created a Composite video output for m 600xl in less than 2 hours. That got me into putting the Chroma signal onto my 800xl monitor port. Also got me trying to improve on the 800xl's video output. Small compared to building an MIO, but I am starting appreciate what he is doing.

#49 atari4all OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jun 28, 2006 9:38 AM

JULY 1st is the CUTOFF DATE FOR ORDERING THIS BOARD!

paypal to kjones66@earthlink.net

MIO Mainboard, fully populated/tested functional is $150.00US

MIO Mainboard + XE PBI EXTNDR board is $190.00US


Not trying to rain on the MIO parade but all this seems VERY risky. To skip the prototype phase of a design
and go straight into production is not well advised. Even if you have verified every part of the circuit with
the origional, that in no way guarantee's that your board will work. Don't get me wrong, I am not questioning
your ability at all, its just that there are always gotcha's in any hardware design project. Assuming that the
hardware does work there is still the issue of finding hard disk drives that will work with the old SASI/SCSI
interface of the MIO. Even when the MIO was first released by ICD there were only a handful of the many
SCSI drives available that would actually work.

atari4all


Yeah those points have already been stated several times, and as far as skipping the prototype phase, thats not what's been done here.

You have zero knowldege of what I have or haven't "prototyped", or any of the work that has been done by me or others, which has culminated in the final production spec of this product.

If you look at my reputation, of all the things Ive built and sold in the atari community, not to mention a 100% EBAY rating, I think you can take my word when I promise to deliver a 100% funtional and tested unit.
I also think, in light of the fact that I myself did the work on the layout of the new board, that I can confidently say that its a 100% electrical equivelant to the original design, and any issues that may arise will be
due to parts tolerances and/or changes in operating characteristics of more recently produced devices verus their 1987-1990 counterparts. I am fully prepared to deal with this during the assembly/testing phase, and have made ample allowances in both time and funding, as well as flexibility of build options and parts selection. Or As the locals put it, "This ain't my first Rodeo." I also think in light of the previous work Ive done with various production date MIOs, I am fully aware of the inherent "temperamentality" of the design, and am fully qualified to asess the "risk", as you put it.

As far as the SCSI device compatability issue, That is an inherant characteristic of the original design. Anyone who uses an MIO has to locate the appropriate additional hardware (drives, mfm-scsi controllers, etc.) to create a complete hardisk system. Original MIOs sell for quite a bit on EBAY.. In fact several times what I am charging for these boards. Nowhere have I represented that an MIO will work with all SCSI hardisks, and anyone who buys one of these is fully aware that what they are getting is a 100% functional equivelant to the original MIO interface. The purpose for this project, which Ive stated several times on this thread, is to make this device available to people who want one, for a decent price. Regardles of the shortcommings of the MIO, it is still the best supported hardisk interface for the ATARI 8-bit, especially from a spartados standpoint.

I hope this dispells any doubts you may have created in the minds of the people who had the good faith and guts to support me in this project.

But if thats not enough, I will personally guarantee full refund of 100% of EVERYONE's money in the event that I cannot deliver 100% functional, compatable, and tested STABLE units.


The people who have put their money forward in good faith here have my word and reputation to back them, and I really don't appreciate the pesimistic comments especially in light of the fact that there are possibly people on here with a lesser understanding of the nature of these projects than you or I.

I also notice, that whoever you are, you actually went through the trouble to create an new account on here today JUST to post this message, did not post any other messages to any other threads, and that all of the information in your user profile has been left empty, or kept anonymous. This leads me to believe that if in fact you are a person with any degree of credibility, knowledge, or personal experience to back what you've said, that you need to seriously GROW SOME BALLS and post under your normal account. If you just happen to be someone who coincidentally logged onto this forum for the first time, and happened to stumble apon this thread, and post only this single message on this thread, out of the entire forum, then you should at least enlighten me as to who you are, and on what basis you choose to criticize my ability to deliver what I have promised (because regardless of your "rain on the parade" disclaimer, that's exactly what you are doing.) I would really prefer you didn't do it here, as this thread is specifically for the purpose of following the PROGRESS of this project and providing updates to those who have invested their money. I'd really prefer it not become a controversy thread debating the specifics of how I choose to develop/produce the products.

That said.. Thank you for your advice...


Frankly your unhinged rant in response to my observations speak volumes
to your unprofessionalism and lack of maturity. Your ego seems rather thin skinned
and fragile to react in such a manner. Just because I am a new member to this forum
does not in any way prevent me from expressing my opinions or comments about any
thread posted here. Instead of re-hashing other engineers 25 year old design why not
enhance the MIO with an updated SCSI interface faster serial I/O or USB & Ethernet
capability. That would truly put you in the "Rodeo".

That said, have a nice day :)

#50 Goochman OFFLINE  

Goochman

    Quadrunner

  • 6,986 posts
  • Moongates to the Past

Posted Wed Jun 28, 2006 10:34 AM

Not that I want to join the 'conversation' here - but I would throw this out atari4all - you so far have been great at pointing out 'problems' with peoples efforts to revive/move forward on the 8bit line.

What products/software are you producing/reproducing/enhancing? If 0 I suggest you take your trolling elsewhere




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