Paranoid Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 15-pin male5200 Connector +------------+ | | | 4 +--------------------------------------+ START, PAUSE, AND RESET COMMON | | | START 7 +------------------------------------+-+ START BUTTON ON JOYSTICK | | | | PAUSE 6 +----------------------------------+-|-+ PAUSE BUTTON ON JOYSTICK | | | | | RESET 5 +--------------------------------+-|-|-+ RESET BUTTON ON JOYSTICK | | | | | | 8 +------------------------------+-|-|-|-+ * AND # BUTTONS ON JOYSTICK (COMMON) | | | | | | | 1 +----------------------------+-|-|-|-|-+ # BUTTON ON JOYSTICK | | | | | | | | 3 +--------------------------+-|-|-|-|-|-+ * BUTTON ON JOYSTICK | | | | | | | | | 2 +------------------------+ | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | GROUND 15 +--FIRE BUTTON COMMONS | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |BOT BUTN 13 +--BUTTON 'A' | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |TOP BUTN 14 +--BUTTON 'B' | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | +------------+ +--+-+-+-+-+-+-+--+ | 9 5 6 4 3 2 1 | | | | 9-pin female | | 2600 Connector | +-----------------+ So, I'm looking at your stick, and looking at this schematic, and something comes to mind... the db-9 connector you used on your joystick is a db-9 MALE connector, and I don't actually see a db-15 connector, male or otherwise. I'm assuming that you've got the raw-wires from the 5200 stick's cable going to your start, pause, reset, # and * buttons on the stick, and also to the db-9 male port, right (with the rest going to the circuit for the joystick, then to the joystick). The schematic says db-15 MALE to db-9 FEMALE... which is why I'm confused. Have I got this right? I still need to get over to radio shack to pick up the parts. Do they have the nifty red little buttons you used for start, pause and reset, or is there somewhere else I'd be better off ordering these from? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PacManPlus Posted July 11, 2006 Author Share Posted July 11, 2006 Ouch. That should have read DB15 *Female* connector for the 5200 end and DB9 *Male* for the 2600 end... But you are correct; I did use an old 5200 joystick cable and pulled the wires from that (it's by far the easiest way to do it). And yes, I got those buttons at Radio Shack, hopefully they still have them and they're not overrun by Cell-Phones now As far as the wiring, how I did it is pin 8 (for example) I connected two wires to it; one goes to the '#' and '*' buttons, and the other goes to pin 4 of the 9-pin connector. Sorry about the typo - I'll fix it in the above post. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paranoid Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 Ok... bear with me. I checked out the 5200 FAQ for pin outs to match to your schematics, and I'm thinking getting the wiring from your schematics to the actually 5200 stick by pin number is going to be too much for me. I'd need a color coded schematic like Jay did for the 7800 RSI stick ("tie right directional switch to the red wire from the 7800 joystick cable", for example). But looking at your schematic, and opening up a 5200 stick, I had this thought... It won't be exactly PRETTY, but it should be functionaly. It seems like there are three wires that are associated with directional control on the 5200 stick. The RED (which goes to the top pot, I am assuming that controls UP/DOWN - Pin 11)... the Brown (which goes to the bottom pot, I am assuming this controls left/right - Pin 10), and black, which is obviously the common ground for the joystick circuit - Pin 9. Really, if I just disconnect these three wires and tie them into the RSI switches per your schematic (red to pin 11, brown to pin 10, black to pin 9, with the resistor circuit inbetween the switches), I'll effectively have a digital stick with a 5200 keypad, right? The only trick that would remain is the fire buttons would still be on the 5200 keypad flex circuit. I guess that wouldn't work. I'd need to wire the RSI fire buttons to the right cables on the 5200. And although I know they are pin 13, 14 and 15, I don't know which actual WIRES they are... So, I'm using this from the FAQ (my 5 year old is interrupting me every 10 seconds right now, so please forgive me if this post is disjointed). 4.5 -- 5200 CONTROLLER PINOUT ----------------------------- Pin Function 1 Keypad -- right column 2 Keypad -- middle column 3 Keypad -- left column 4 Start, Pause and Reset column 5 Keypad -- third row and reset 6 Keypad -- second row and pause 7 Keypad -- top row and Start 8 Keypad -- bottom row 9 Pot common 10 Horizontal Pot (POT0, 2, 4, 6) 11 Vertical Pot (POT1, 3, 5, 7) 12 5 Volts DC 13 Bottom side buttons 14 Top side buttons 15 0 volts -- ground But this is obviously geared to the pinout of the DB15 itself, not the actual wiring of the joystick cable. Is there something out there that breaks down cable to pin by color? I might try this again when my kid isn't playing a game right next to me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PacManPlus Posted July 12, 2006 Author Share Posted July 12, 2006 Really, if I just disconnect these three wires and tie them into the RSI switches per your schematic (red to pin 11, brown to pin 10, black to pin 9, with the resistor circuit inbetween the switches), I'll effectively have a digital stick with a 5200 keypad, right? The only trick that would remain is the fire buttons would still be on the 5200 keypad flex circuit. I guess that wouldn't work. I'd need to wire the RSI fire buttons to the right cables on the 5200. And although I know they are pin 13, 14 and 15, I don't know which actual WIRES they are... That's pretty much it, as long as you follow the resistors and where they connect to on the switch. Here is the Pin -> Color chart for the standard Atari Cable: 1 - Grey 2 - White 3 - White w/ Black Stripe 4 - White w/ Orange Stripe 5 - Blue 6 - Violet 7 - White w/ Red Stripe 8 - Green 9 - Black 10 - Brown 11 - Red 12 - N/C 13 - Yellow 14 - White w/ Green Stripe 15 - Orange Hope this helps! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paranoid Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 Here is the Pin -> Color chart for the standard Atari Cable:1 - Grey 2 - White 3 - White w/ Black Stripe 4 - White w/ Orange Stripe 5 - Blue 6 - Violet 7 - White w/ Red Stripe 8 - Green 9 - Black 10 - Brown 11 - Red 12 - N/C 13 - Yellow 14 - White w/ Green Stripe 15 - Orange That helps tons. I'm going to run over to Radio Shack tomorrow night and get the parts and get started. Wish me luck. Hopefully I don't end up frying my 5200. Thanks for all of your assistance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paranoid Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 (edited) Here is the parts list... QTY 1: Mini SPST 1.5-Amp Momentary Pushbutton Switch2-Pk. Catalog#: 275-1556 $2.99 QTY 2: Red Button SPST Pushbutton Switch $2.29ea $4.58 Catalog#: 275-646 QTY 1: 2.2K ohm 1/2W 5% Carbon Film Resistor pk/5 $0.99 I can't find these resistors on the online store... 250k and 497k resistors... I am assuming 5 packs are $.99 ea, too. So about $10.50 in parts, plus a 5200 donor stick, some wire, solder, electrical tape, a RSI stick, and your labor... sound about right? Are the tolerances of the resistors as important as the FAQ makes them out to be? I imagine so. I keep imagining all of these RSI sticks floating around in the retro community 10 or 20 years from now... for a variety of systems... selling on eBay. Edited July 12, 2006 by Paranoid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PacManPlus Posted July 12, 2006 Author Share Posted July 12, 2006 Actually you need 3 of the red buttons? (Start, Pause, and Reset) Also, you can make 250K by stringing a 150K and a 100K resistor in sequence - same applies for a 497K - 470K and 27K I believe are the more common ones. You can be 1 or 2 ohms off... hold it... my labor? You're doing this yourself, no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paranoid Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 Work in progress... I'm going to need to move the buttons over the picture of the pimp, I'm afraid. But you get the idea. "Tied o yo turned out, loose, floppy 5200 controller? Getcha sef da PMPstick 5200. My stick always on Center!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paranoid Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 (edited) Ah. I didn't realize that about the resistors. Thanks. It was a rhetorical "your" labor. Heh. Sorry if that scared you. Yeah, I'm going to do it myself. Ridiculiously enough, I can't get to Radio Shack because my travel trailer is hooked up to my truck right now, and I don't want to unhook it. I want to get started on this, and it is driving me nuts. Edited July 12, 2006 by Paranoid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PacManPlus Posted July 12, 2006 Author Share Posted July 12, 2006 oh - ok Btw - love the pic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paranoid Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 (edited) I drew up a schematic of the stick wiring circuit to help my visualize this before I start. The schematic assumes the RSI stick is opened up and upside down with the "top" of the inverted stick oriented away from you, and you are looking down at the aseembly and switches. Does this schematic look right? I'm assuing the switches labeled N.O. on your schematic are the ones that have no wires attached to them when you crack the stick open? (and now I'm second guessing this assumption, because it makes more sense that Normally Open would be the ones with wires attached... because a close/short indicates a directional. So I'm showing these wired to the wrong leads on the switches in this schematic). For the keypad passthrough, I think I'm going to put a DB-15 male on the RSI stick. If I understand right, I just need to connect the wires straight through from the atari cable to the DB-15 port, less the 3 wires for the stick assembly and the 3 wires for the two fire buttons, then tie the new buttons on the RSI stick for pause, start, reset, * and # to the appropriate wires on the Atari cable also. Then I can plug in another 5200 stick to the RSI stick, and it will only see input from the keypad on the RSI stick, basically like a Wico 5200 stick, right? Pin 5 and 3 closed/short on the cable equals keypad 7 pressed, right? Do I understand the matrix right? Sorry for being such a dumbass about this, but I figure it pays to ask a billion questions up front and make sure I understand what I am doing on something like this. I was just looking at my schematic again, and I see that there must be some error in it. On the up down I can see the logic of the 250k and the 497k... on the left right, I've got something hooked up wrong. the 497k and 250k are one discreet circuit, the 2.2k a seperate one. My daughter is still actively engaged in her current campaign to drive me nuts, for what it is worth. Trying to figure this stuff out with "Daddy, Daddy, Daddy" every 5 minutes could make Mother Theresa lose her patience. Figured it out. I have the 250k going from N.O. left to N.O. right, and it should go to N.C. right. Edited July 13, 2006 by Paranoid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PacManPlus Posted July 13, 2006 Author Share Posted July 13, 2006 I drew up a schematic of the stick wiring circuit to help my visualize this before I start. The schematic assumes the RSI stick is opened up and upside down with the "top" of the inverted stick oriented away from you, and you are looking down at the aseembly and switches. Does this schematic look right? I'm assuing the switches labeled N.O. on your schematic are the ones that have no wires attached to them when you crack the stick open? Actually N.O. (Normally Open) are the connectors *with* wires on them - the switch is open until you press the button which 'closes' the connection. N.C. (Normally Closed) are the only connectors where there were no wires attached. Other than that it looks correct, besides the error you already found below... For the keypad passthrough, I think I'm going to put a DB-15 male on the RSI stick. If I understand right, I just need to connect the wires straight through from the atari cable to the DB-15 port, less the 3 wires for the stick assembly and the 3 wires for the two fire buttons, then tie the new buttons on the RSI stick for pause, start, reset, * and # to the appropriate wires on the Atari cable also. Then I can plug in another 5200 stick to the RSI stick, and it will only see input from the keypad on the RSI stick, basically like a Wico 5200 stick, right? Pretty much Pin 5 and 3 closed/short on the cable equals keypad 7 pressed, right? Do I understand the matrix right? You got it :!: Sorry for being such a dumbass about this, but I figure it pays to ask a billion questions up front and make sure I understand what I am doing on something like this. Not a dumbass! It's better to make sure you understand before you tackle something - more of a chance it will work right the first time I was just looking at my schematic again, and I see that there must be some error in it. On the up down I can see the logic of the 250k and the 497k... on the left right, I've got something hooked up wrong. the 497k and 250k are one discreet circuit, the 2.2k a seperate one. My daughter is still actively engaged in her current campaign to drive me nuts, for what it is worth. Trying to figure this stuff out with "Daddy, Daddy, Daddy" every 5 minutes could make Mother Theresa lose her patience. Figured it out. I have the 250k going from N.O. left to N.O. right, and it should go to N.C. right. Yep - you answered your own question before I even got a chance to look at it Let me tell you, I had three other ways this was connected and I was having issues with each way. This was the only one that didn't give me ghost values. Thank God for the Test Cart! Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paranoid Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 Thanks for your help. So. One last question before I get started (then I'll probably stop bothering you for awhile as I take my Dremel tool and put my fingers into God's hands...) I couldn't find the resistor combo you suggested for the 497k. The 27k Ohm resistor wasn't in stock, except in their $12.99 pack of 500 resistors. Instead, I bought the 470k package, a pack of 22k and a pack of 4.7k resistors. Should this value be close enough (496.7k ohms) to the 497k ohms. I could have gotten a 5.5k ohm resistor too, but it seemed like having a little too little resistance might be better than having a little too much, in this case. They didn't have any db-15 male connectors either, so I'm not sure what I'm going to do about that for right now. I might just hard-wire the 5200 controller to the stick in the meantime. I've asked this before, and I thought I remembered that resistance on a resistor is a 1 way street, if you get the resistor backwards, it has zero resistance. Probably my 8th grade electronics teacher just trying to make us design our circuits so they looked pretty. When I tie these together, it doesn't matter which way they are oriented toward one another? i.e., the gold band can be on either the left or the right on the circuit, even if I have three resistors in sequence for the 497k Ohms? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eegt97 Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 Resistors are not a one way street, either way is fine. All that matters is whether they are in series or parellel. I would like to know if this works, looks like a very worthwhile project, thanks Bob. -Brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paranoid Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 I'm going to get started tonight or tomorrow, but it'll probably take me awhile. I'm not very good at this kind of thing. I've done two 7800 RSI sticks (well, a RSI and a Jakk's Ms. Pac Man... but they're pretty much the same), and this will be my third stick... but it is far more ambitious than the 7800 circuit. So we'll see how it turns out. Give me a few days and I'll report back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paranoid Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 So... I'm assuming in this case I will want the resistors in series to get the 497k ohm, not in parallel. Heh. There is always *something* I haven't considered... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory DG Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 Very nice stick! You should sell them Bob! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paranoid Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 Got the buttons installed. That was unpleasant. I'm sure I breathed in a lifetime's supply of plastic-shavings... I'm not looking forward to backing the buttons out of there to put on a better label once I'm done, either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PacManPlus Posted July 13, 2006 Author Share Posted July 13, 2006 Thanks Greg, Brian Yes, you want the resistors in series, not in parallel. Also 496.7 will work fine. Looking good! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paranoid Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 (edited) If I'm looking at the pins of a DB-15 port, do I count from top row, left to right or from top row, right to left? 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 or 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 15 14 13 12 11 10 9 The second one, right? I just want to confirm. This is looking at it (looking at the male, pin side), not the reverse, where I would connect the wires... Second... I had this brilliant idea. My local Radio Shack didn't have any DB-15 males, so I decided to canibalize this old Gravis dpad I got on closeout from CompUSA years ago. I took it apart and removed the whole joystick cable. But it only has 8 of the 15 pins wired, and what are the odds that they're the RIGHT 8 pins for the keypad passthrough? Not good. But I really like the idea. Basically, the Atari 5200 cable would come out of one end of the RSI, to hook into the 5200 console. The PC joystick cable would come out the other side, as a passthrough to hook another 5200 controller in for the keypad. I guess I could trace the wires to the pins and see if my cable is right... but I don't have that tool, and I don't want to buy it just for this. (I can't even remember what it is... a multimeter?) I was wondering if anyone had a source where I could purchase DB15 cables wired straight through with all 15 pins wired (I only need 14, and really only 11 of those, and I could live with 8, if they went to the right pins). I'd like to have a nice, insulated, professional cable for this, rather than a DIY one, now that I've thought about it, and I like the idea of having an actual cable come out of the stick, rather than just having a DB-15 mounted right on the joystick. It was sooo close, too... I mean, I can plug the 5200 controller right into this Gravis cable, and it would have looked real clean. But I just *know* that the 8 wires in the gravis cable aren't going to go to the right pins... there is no way. Edited July 13, 2006 by Paranoid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PacManPlus Posted July 14, 2006 Author Share Posted July 14, 2006 If you're looking directly at the 'female' end of the plug (the joystick connector), the first pin is on the top right (like the second one). This means the male end (the port on the 5200 itself) has the first pin on the left. I don't think the PC joystick port uses the pins that you need, unfortunately. But I can't find my pinout for it at the moment... This is one of the reasons I went with the 9-pin 2600 keypad Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paranoid Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 So, I found that for the 250k Ohm resistor, I had actually picked up a 100 and a 150 ohm... Went back to Radio Shack, and they had the 100k, but not the 150k. So being that I was out, I drove out to HSC, picked up a multimeter, a handful of 150k resistors, and a couple db-15 male connectors. I made the mistake of using 18g solid copper core for the wiring of the circuits for the joystick, and was too generous on the wiring, so I've got a rat's nest coiled around inside the stick. I did complete the circuits for the joy up/down and right/left tonight. But it isn't pretty in there. I decided the 18g solid copper was too unmanagable for this project, so I found an old db-15 hd straight through VGA cable, cut off the ends, stripped the rubber and the shielding and pulled all 15 of the 10', 20 ga. wires out of there. I'm going to solder some of this to the db-15 male tomorrow, then figure out where I want to cut and mount it on the stick. I'll use this wire to hook up the 5 new buttons and tie in the existing buttons, too. Then comes the fun part... connecting the 5200 cable to the 5 new buttons, the 4 existing fire buttons, and the 8 wires for the DB-15 pass through, the 3 connections for directionals, and figuring out how to get it all inside the RSI case. My confidence is about 60/40 on this project. It is a HELLUVA lot more involved than the 7800 RSI conversion... and it really requires someone with a skilled hand at soldering and planning an efficient circuit. I'm not that guy. I've got a feeling, once all is said and done, I wouldn't do this project for resale for any less than $75. It certainly makes it clear why 5200 joysticks and alternatives come at such a premium. I'm still worried about connecting up the rest of the stick. I'm confused about how to tie the start-pause-reset-*-# on the stick into the keys from the passthrough and to ground. I'm going to look at this thread carefully and try to explain how I think I should do it, one more time, before I actually go forward with that step. But not tonight. I'm beat. Killer project, but definetly really beyond my practical limits as a tinkerer. I *may* pull it off, but if I do, it is a testament to your help and clear instructions, not my ability, Bob. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paranoid Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 If you're looking directly at the 'female' end of the plug (the joystick connector), the first pin is on the top right (like the second one). This means the male end (the port on the 5200 itself) has the first pin on the left. I don't think the PC joystick port uses the pins that you need, unfortunately. But I can't find my pinout for it at the moment... This is one of the reasons I went with the 9-pin 2600 keypad Bob Ok. I got it. So if I wire a db 15 male straight through, I want to wire it so the pin out matches the TOP example, if I'm looking at the MALE end... which means I'll wire it like the BOTTOM example, on the backside of the port where the solder cups are... right? Male Pin 1 is top row, first pin on the left. When I turn the DB connector around to solder wires on, that will be the solder cup top row, first cup on the right... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paranoid Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 (edited) Ok. I should have gone to bed... but... I drew out a whole schematic of the entire stick (it looks as messy on paper as I think it will look inside the case when I'm done)... I've got more questions... but for now, the big one is... Do Start, Pause and Reset on the joystick share pin 4 Common Ground with * and # as well as pin 8, or do Start, Pause and Reset use pin 4 only for common, and * and # use pin 8? I think it is the last one, that Start, Pause and Reset use pin 4 for common, and that * and # use pin 8 for common, and they do not share pin 4 between the Start/Pause/Reset and the */# keys. But I'm a little confused looking at your original schematic. And then... all 8 of the wires tie into the top row of the DB-15, in order, 1 through 8, Fire buttons and directionals are the bottom row, and aren't passed through. Plug it in, and I should be enjoying Radica style goodness on 5200 games. Maybe BC's Quest For Tires will be playable, now. Edited July 14, 2006 by Paranoid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PacManPlus Posted July 14, 2006 Author Share Posted July 14, 2006 (edited) Ok. I got it. So if I wire a db 15 male straight through, I want to wire it so the pin out matches the TOP example, if I'm looking at the MALE end... which means I'll wire it like the BOTTOM example, on the backside of the port where the solder cups are... right? Male Pin 1 is top row, first pin on the left. When I turn the DB connector around to solder wires on, that will be the solder cup top row, first cup on the right... Yes, for the connector that you will place in the unit, you will obviously want a male end, and the 'solder side' (solder cup side) of that male end will have pin 1 on the right. If you look closely, sometimes they are labeled by pin number. Do Start, Pause and Reset on the joystick share pin 4 Common Ground with * and # as well as pin 8, or do Start, Pause and Reset use pin 4 only for common, and * and # use pin 8? No. Pin 4 is the common for Start, Pause, and Reset. It has no other function. If you close the circuit between pin 4 and pin 7, you get 'Start' registered. If you close the circuit between pin 4 and pin 6, you get 'Pause'. Same thing for 'Reset' with pin 4 and pin 5. The * and # keys use pin 8 for the common. Close it with 1 and you get '#'. Close it with 3 and you get '*'. I think it is the last one, that Start, Pause and Reset use pin 4 for common, and that * and # use pin 8 for common, and they do not share pin 4 between the Start/Pause/Reset and the */# keys. But I'm a little confused looking at your original schematic. That is correct. (See paragraph above) And then... all 8 of the wires tie into the top row of the DB-15, in order, 1 through 8, Fire buttons and directionals are the bottom row, and aren't passed through. Plug it in, and I should be enjoying Radica style goodness on 5200 games. Maybe BC's Quest For Tires will be playable, now. You don't actually *need* pin 4, as you're going to have those buttons (Start, Pause, and Reset) on the joystick itself, but if you're going to pass it through also, that will work. Good luck! Bob Edited July 14, 2006 by PacManPlus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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