orubin

As the programmer for Tunnel Hunt/Tube Chase, I can explain the sounds. I sat with Doug Neubauer as he was trying to create the shot sounds for Star Raiders. He created those sound (with some feedback and tweaks) and I really liked them. Some time later, when I was doing Tunnel Hunt (then Tube Chase) I needed a shot sound, and remembered how much I liked the Star Raider's sound. But I did not have access to the code for the sound. So using a logic analyzer, I captured the sequence of digital values sent to the Pokey, then created my own sound routines to recreate the shot sound. I did similar for the collision sound as well. There are some subtle changes as Tube Chase's speakers were different, but for the most part, yes, those are Star Raider's sound for those two effects. The other sounds are typical Pokey sounds and nothing special. As for the ship, I just drew those up on graph paper from the start. They are not copied from Star Raiders, and to be honest, I forgot they had similar look in some places. Originally, those graphics were just place holders, but the schedule got the better of me and they just remained and never updated. And yes, they are obviously "inspired" from Star Wars. ? Happy to answer other questions.

Thanks. I could not recall when we made that change.

Yes, you should see some speed up even on standard drives. The order of the sectors was renumbered in the formatting on the E-Drive. When ANY drive reads the disk, it looks for a track and sector number. When reading (or writing) a track, often it reads (or writes) the tracks in numerical order. The old sector was just in order, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5... The problem is, when you read sector 1 and then send its data to the computer, sector 2 is already past the read head, and you have to wait for it to come all the way around again. BUT, if you put the sectors in a different order, one that will let the next numbered sector be just approaching the head when needed, then the next data is read very quickly, and you get a speed up. So, try this: Format a new disk on the E drive. Now do a copy from an old disk to the new one. Then put the new one in the old drive and see if it works better. It should. Let us know. -Owen-

Whatever works. Could be why the sticker was changed originally. Note that the drive will work normally with Atari DOS. And if you format a drive, I believe you will get the new format just because that is what the drive does. You will notice it is MUCH faster on any drive with a newly formatter floppy. Cheers, -Owen-

Looking at your pics, it seems to me that an 820 sticker was just placed on the drive. I would ignore that as someone being silly.

There is an advanced DOS version floating around that will add some functionality. Most of the changes were internal as well. Like formatting blank discs with a different sector structure. The new structure was designed to allow the next sector to be just approaching the readwrite head so that there was MUCH less wait when reading and writing the disc. It also allowed a track at once read and write which let you do a disc copy that got around most copy protections at the time. Im sure with a bit of searching you will find a DOS version that works. Also I have no idea why it would identify as an 820 unless the serial board has been replaced. It is possible (do not recall) that the serial board has a way of identifying the device. A better answer would require more digging. After all, that was 40 years ago I worked on that. -Owen-

Yea, I am. You know, I started a very long reply to this last message of your, to answer your arguments, and then asked myself, why am I bothering? (long post deleted.) But I really have no time for people who make personal attacks to make their point. I have no time for people who lecture rather than discuss. I have no time for your obvious dislike of Nolan, and the bile that flows in your words. I have no time to be caught up in some petty arguments that you alone believe have the correct answer. I have no time for answering people who think that only they know what is right. (Curious, do you keep terabytes of old emails and posts so you can make your point. <-- Rhetorical question!) I am sorry, but I have had discussions with people who argue like this, and I find them a total waste of time. It is clear that you obviously do not care what other think. You come across bitter and argumentative, you seem to thrive on the conflict (my opinions again), and you take to personal attacks (not opinion.) I am open to discussion, not to attacks or bullying. Quite frankly, I am not interested in continuing here at all because of you. Sorry to others, but this last post, of someone who has supposedly moved on, as I said before, is reason enough to stop posting on this board. Reflect? Seriously, this from you? Riiiight! Everyone's moved on? Really? As you have demonstrated, you have not moved anywhere. When do you reflect and move on? <-- Rhetorical question again! My apologies to everyone else. Sorry, I came late to the game, and quite frankly, missed the whole thing while active, and got caught up in the reading of the thread. I would have moved on after my last post (since I never got my opinion out, I need one last post), but this one person obviously does not want this all to end yet. So, I will end it. I will move around him, and not only move on, but move out as well. With guys like wgungfu involved on this board, I have no desire to be part of these discussions. I can see what discussions here will be like when he argues every nit pick detail with a stack of references, emails, posts, facebook pages, and all, just to prove how right he is. Sorry, not interested. I will happily answer questions emailed to me via my website (this invite not for you wgungfu, please do not email me) and be happy to partake of any conversation he is not part of. But this kind of vitriolic nonsense is not worth my time, it just sucks me in, and as I said before when I was surprised that Nolan was still responding, if I were him, I would leave. Now it has started, I am leaving. Good bye. Email me when wgungfu has left the building, and I may return. Until then, happy gaming, and enjoy your battles here too. -Owen-

Hmm, good question. Probably the plain ol' Chocolate Chip. Although, I do like a good Florentine as well. Hell, who am I kidding...if it sweet, and taste good, at that time, it is my favorite cookie! :-) -O-

So I guess the original dated notes, being dated AFTER he left don't really matter then? Curt I did want to address this. There were dozens and dozens of games I had design input to. I am not listed on any of them, or in any lab book notes. Does not make me a liar. That is not unusual, we were quite lazy with our lab books. For example, I sat with the designer (Doug Neubauer) of the Atari 800 game Star Raiders while he was designing it, and doing some of the sounds for the game. I was working on Tunnel Hunt at the time, and I needed some sounds. I liked what I heard, so I spent a lot of time in the lab with him for a week or so helping him tweak sounds, giving feedback, and making the occasional game suggestion. I then went and designed a sound routine to copy the sounds from Star Raiders ( because I did not have his code) into Tunnel Hunt (the shot firing sound.) So, in conversation somewhere, I might say I had my hand in Star Raiders, even though it is not documented anywhere, and I am not sure if Doug would even remember those few days. But that does not make me a liar. As I said, it is very possible that Nolan sat in discussions of a similar game idea while he was still at Atari, we had LOTS of those discussions, and many were never recorded, or may have been lost as the notes moved around a lot, and were often brought to later meetings and destroyed. I used to enjoy those meetings. Nolan always had great ideas, and even if they were not the actual game, his input was felt on a lot of titles. So perhaps you don't have all the notes? Maybe his input to an earlier discussion of a similar title was not captured, but this does not make him a liar. (I know that many of my early ideas, some of which actually show up in a number of different titles later were never recorded as such.) During those brain storming sessions, we would look back at older ideas and discussions, or bring up ideas and turn them into new games. Yes, Nolan was not part of the discussion at the later time when it was finally created, but that does not mean his ideas did not help generate the idea i the first place. Your collection is not 100% as you know. That man had more ideas than could ever be recorded. Some good, some not, but they were out there. He also would often just walk into a lab and start throwing out ideas. I believe it was his idea to do a Hit The Bear game which led me to design the Triple Hunt game. I do not think his input is recorded on that is it? I also want to address this Ralph issue. The original Odyssey design was junk, and was a true one hit wonder. Yea, there were multiple games, sort of, and every one of them moved the same smeary analog dot around the screen under a static held piece of plastic to make "a game." It was an analog system that drew a blurry single smear on the screen, and not very well. It required a plastic overlay on the screen to create the playfield. The paddles were also analog and almost impossible to control. If I recall, it did not keep score. It was an idea, it was NOT a design, and any similarity between it and the first pong game are purely idea in nature only. Nolan, seeing a good idea, got the right people to build it well, and Atari was that place. Just because Alcorn was the hardware designer does not nean Nolan was not responsible for the design, or the idea. He knew who to get, didn't he? Nolan was the boss in charge, and as such, had a lot of responsibility for the project as well. And do not get me started on the patent issue. There was nothing copied, because there was nothing worth copying and copying a "simple idea" itself is not really what we put patents on. We put patents on the implementation of the ideas. AND, improvement patents are a very legitimate form of work. Done all the time. But there was nothing to copy, it was all analog. Everything Atari did was all digital, As someone who reviews patents today, I would probably have thrown out any claims here. Moving dots on a CRT was long known even before Ralph did it. Playing games on a CRT was long known before Ralph did it. OK, maybe he got it on the home TV first, but it was awful. I know, I had one. It was completely unplayable. I'll say it again, Odyssey was an idea, poorly executed, and would never have scaled. It took Nolan, creating and pushing teams, to create a better version of the idea in home pong and the 2600, and building a company where it was possible to make cool games. As a technology manager today, I give credit to my team, of course, but I take credit as well on our projects even tough I am not "the designer." I help solve problems, I put in ideas, and I make it possible to get the work done, and I make sure my teams have what they need to be creative and productive. That also was Nolan's job, and that too made games possible. And regardless of who George Bush gave some award to, I notice that I do not see "Odyssey" printed on the kids pajamas and T-Shirts at Target, but I sure do see a lot of them with an Atari logos on them! Seems the market has decided which was the real winner. Enough said, I am going to go get that cookie. Cheers,

Oh, well, no one told me there would be cookies. That's different! :-) (Chilled, and yes, I was late, but posted as I read. Bad form I admit.)

Really Curt? I would expect more from you. Should you not be setting an example here? That is Nolan BTW, and I am surprised at all these people attacking him. What is wrong with you people? He does not need to spend his time here answering anything, and for you guys to get all self righteous on him is BULL SHIT! I am surprised that he even answers you any more. I know after some of the comments above, I would not. I will not get into the details of these arguments here (as someone who was there BTW) and maybe the facts are not 100%, but that is not a reason to be jerks here. By the way, game ideas at Atari were often discussed YEARS in advance of them actually being built, often put in notebooks, and I sat in many of those meetings and discussions (remember, I was hired in early 76) and it is quite possible Nolan sat in a meeting where a game like that was originally discussed and it got filed because the hardware was just not there to do it yet. But who cares, really? Excuse my anger, but this is one of the most pathetic string I have read in a long time, and Curt, you should me moderating, not fanning flames. I can assure you, I will not be answering any questions here until you guys get off your self-righteous butts. SIGH! Signed - The real Owen Rubin - Or am I fake too? <-- Rhetorical question, please do not answer

It is a board position. For those who have never served on a board of any kind, they do NOT run things. The boards job is to recommend and, sometimes, set general direction, and to act as oversight to the executive staff. If the board is functioning correctly, they have no control over any day to day activity. And lets not slam Nolan here. While he may not have been the greatest person at running a company, he is quite good at coming up with cool ideas and thinking outside the box, and I for one (OK, I worked for him a few times) think he is very creative. And given the state of the new Atari, this might be something they could use. My 3 cents (inflation.)