trucker_monkey

I had originally went to this link in order to reply & chime in, but reading the replies rather ruined that. I am not generally a collector (except of coins which as a rule don't lose intrinsic value), & as such you folks have fairly turned me off to the concept in this case. So as I am in agreement with shadow460 I am not going to post what my rarest is (it is a broken cartridge anyways, don't know if that makes it more or less rare ). In short most of my games came from cartridges bought by my father or grandfather for us to play when we were growing up, and some of the above stinks like what first got me out of MtG and the reactions I received over my alpha's & beta's that I had bought in a pack for next to nothing. To those who contributed to this in good faith I apologize for the above. To the others, please keep it in the closets or bathroom.

Just to put a new perspective on this discussion. I don't see many games that aren't a port or hack of some sort or another to begin with. This is wether it be a port from a book, a movie, another video game (wether it be pre- or post- 2600), or a board game. Others see this too as shown by the following posts. This uses an existing fun mechanic or paradigm that has been proven to most users. This makes it easier to collaborate as said by Pixelboy. Isaac Asimov has been quoted when asked about his own ideas and where they came from as saying (paraphrased) "I don't understand everyone else. Everywhere I go and everything I do gives me a plethora of story ideas that I can write, how come no one else does this." Fact is that I couldn't write a completely original program because any idea I had would come from somewhere (I would still love to see Carmageddon or LEGO Pac-Man for the 2600), but ultimately it would be a reproduction of a concept already created by other another man or by nature itself. (Which brings up Jenga for the Atari 2600 is it a port of the board game or a port of dam building by beavers?) In the end you have to identify each game and say do I like this or is it just another version of Space Invaders. As for those who try to give ideas to the homebrewers, selling something whether it be you resume or a new idea takes effort. And it is not up to the buyer to encourage the seller to keep trying unless it is a motivated buyer. So to anyone that has an idea that they can just see they should keep trying, try a different tactic each time and analyze what parts have worked and what hasn't. Eventually someone will bite. That said here are some of the ideas I've had and archived in a spreadsheet for later lookup when those projects have reached my queu. You are welcome to use them or not as your heart desires. 4-player joystick games (see thread http://www.atariage.com/forums/topic/152986-paired-joysticks/). Battleship for the Atari 2600 (uses a direct connect cable between 2 machines with a later possibility of an internet hookup to play like the old dial-up games, the dial-up idea would be extremely technically difficult as Atari's can't really talk to one another in the same way (think pre-null modem)) that allows two people to play each other without see-ing the others board. Star Wars: Jedi Knight - using the old scrolling type game but allowing the keypad on one controller in order to use force abilities (or maybe that headband thing?) Carmageddon (using Night Driver type mechanics, with attack capabilities) A true 1st person shooter (probably using a mix of Night Driver & Star Raider type mechanics to re-make Doom or a true port of Wolfenstein 3D, or even Duke Nukem 3D or something). A music game that uses Paddle controllers to emulate a Theremin or maybe Musical Saws.

BigO - thanks that's a better scan than the one I was using (I could actually make out the .01 between the 7th and 8th pin). I dismantled my 1 & 1/2 pair of paddles and wired a housing switch between the pot & pin 7. I then hooked it up to the Atari with Breakaway IV in the slot. 1st I found that I hadn't cleaned that pot and it jittered (took a few minutes to do that). Then I found that I could turn off the switch and still find 4-5 distinct locations on the pot that the system would re-remember showing that a similar concept to the idea put forth by supercat in the topic (http://www.atariage.com/forums/topic/105756-four-player-joystick-games/) with almightytodd should work. I marked the points on the pot that worked, but my everyday multi-meter couldn't differentiate between the settings. I'll have to dig out my good one, and go from there. My current thought is that regardless I should wait until I have a better tool setup (aka get harmony etc.) This brings up an etiquette question. The easiest software item that I could disassemble and play with would probably be the TestCart bin. Is it kosher to do this as long as I check with Paul Slocum first? Does anyone know his forum name or e-mail address?

Herbarius I hate to break this too you but it probably won't work. Most plastics have an extremely high elastic range of deformation which means that no matter how long you let it sit (unless you are wanting to wait on a geologic timescale at which plastic becomes a fluid rather than a solid) then you would have to do something else. The things that can actually form the plastic are heat and to go beyond the elastic deformation point. My recommendation is to brace it how you have done and then try a hot hair dryer, curling iron or some other similar device around the point you are trying to reform, it might not work (I don't know the plastics that well) but it will stand a better chance. You could likewise try an old soldering iron or wood burner, but you are going to have to be artistic and careful with these.

Aaaaagh! Splut! (as trucker_monkey's head explodes while at work). I sure wish that they had run 10 pins instead of 9, just one more would allow so much freedom. I've been assuming that pins 1, 2, 3, 4, & 6 are actually inputs and that 8 is the "power" for those inputs which results in the computer receiving a matrix from programming perspective of 5 bits like follows. ______R __D L i F __o e g i U w f h r p n t t e 1 2 3 4 6 Example Outputs Left & Down = 01100 Down & Right & Firing = 01011 Similarly I've been assuming that 5 & 9 is the input "power"ed by 7, now with the knowledge that they are read by the time it takes to charge a capacitor with an unknown sensitivity. What is the difference between pins 7 & 8. Can pins 1-4 & 6 identify anything except the simple 1 vs 0 input? By the way thanks for helping me break this down so that I can understand it. And based upon the keypad schematics I am assuming that pins 1-4 & 6 can be linked through a "power" on pin 7. Additionally, I can already tell that I will want a Harmony cart if I keep up on this. I've seen links asking what people think about their purchase, links updating the software. But I have yet to find the link or place where I can order one. Which forum or website do I need to look at.

Here's what may be a stupid question, how does the 2600 read the pot on a paddle. My thought is for the joystick mechanism could you simply switch pin 8 to pin 7 for both joysticks and the place the appropriate resistor on the back path of the joystick to mimic a place on pot of a paddle like below. Paddle Pot - 1MΩ ___Joystick Resistors_____Output results ______Up-0.25MΩ__________575KΩ_250KΩ_375KΩ __________|___________________\__|__/ _Left___--_--___Right____325KΩ-_____-125KΩ 0.325MΩ___|____0.125MΩ________/__|__\ ______Down-0.5MΩ_________825KΩ_500KΩ_625KΩ The resulting output would be returned on pin 5 for the left joystick and pin 9 for the right joystick. This would leave the problem of reconfiguring the button somehow but it would be one hurdle eased into. I just don't know if the 2600 takes snapshots of the paddles or watches the resistance changes in order to determine what is going on, or for that matter what it's sensitivity actually is. EDIT: If this worked are there joysticks out there that have a built in booster grip buttons, this may be a way around the button problem. EDIT#2: Ooops I just realized I'm in series not parallel, the idea would still hold though but you would have to reconfigure your SUDOKU puzzle to take that into account, it should still be possible though.

Till I came onto these forums I didn't even know that there were Trackballs for the Atari 2600. Other than the Hack Missile Command TB are there any games that use the Trackball?

Thanks BigO, I was trying to output in a format similar to the Keypad controllers to make it easier to adapt for the programmers, BUT I'd forgotten the need to move diagonal (I'll have to take codebreaker into the church and try multiple key combinations but I don't think it will work satisfactorily). I guess in short that before I begin this project I should learn more about programming. It's been a while and I had forgotten how much hardware and software are linked when you deal with Assembly and these older machines. On another note has anyone heard anything about these other two projects? almightytodd from http://www.atariage.com/forums/topic/105756-four-player-joystick-games/ appears to still be active, but Cupcakus from http://www.atariage.com/forums/topic/14493-ive-got-it/ doesn't appear to have posted since 2005, (kind of sad as he appears to have been the one who had gotten the farthest). So given my general free-time availability look for the 4-player joystick adapter in 2012.

First please excuse my lingua, I am an engineer, but I'm trained as a Civil/Hydrological/Geological Engineer and most of what I know about circuits I taught myself when I took the FE. I was looking at the schematics for the Atari 2600 accessories & I found a brainstorm that I was thinking upon. Couldn't you use the Keyboard pin inputs only use a split connector connected to two joysticks that used the same signal scheme. Mind you the end result is that since I was a kid I've thought it would have been awesome to have 4-player Combat. So I'm planning this out (I only have two extra joystick cases as well as 4 additional joysticks). I'm thinking about what it would take to talk a homebrewer into modifying this (I can code but unless you are talking a groundwater/earth-tide model in FORTRAN or C++ I'm lost, and the Atari would be a definite learning curve), and it seemed like the main problem would be controller access for the community. This brings up the problem of making paired joysticks and being able to distribute them (I doubt I have enough time to be the primary manufacturer for THAT project). This leads me to is there a way to simplify this process. I have come up with two ideas to this ends. #1 create 2 boards & 1 connector to make a home modify kit for existing joysticks (probably modeled after the CX-40). #2 make an adaptor that takes input/output from joysticks and returns input for the keyboard controller. For all intents #2 appears the easiest to manufacture and sell/distribute, BUT I quickly realized that it is beyond my own current technical know-how. So I am looking into insight for this idea. I've got to go but I'll check back on this later tonight.

I like it, green grass for summer, leaves for fall, snow for winter, green grass with dandelions for spring. We could even make it a multi-cart by adding in an Atari version of the television fireplace (press a button and a poker stokes the fire).

Thank you toymailman, that's exactly what I needed.

I wanted to thank Nathan for the input, I've been looking at the AtariAge store (it'll take longer to get some of them as they require budgeting that $2 at a rummage sale doesn't but I was also looking at two hacks as well, what does anyone think about Combat Redux or Indy 500XE I was a little afraid they wouldn't get Munchkin, but I'll have to dig out my old FLUX game that's a good idea. PS: I love the idea of the old Four-Play on the Atari, and Gunfight is at the top of my buy list once next month comes around.

LOL: Actually I haven't broken out the Casino cartridge for them, it got filed away along with Codebreaker, Basic Programming, and Basic Math before I even did the first culling of problem cartridges. The other games that they have been playing are Killer Bunnies, Four-Square (with the ball), Spoons (with actual cards, I've been leery to teach them poker), and Settlers of Catan. If it would stop raining on Sundays we'd have a few other options, but mostly I just wanted it to be something without a lot of direction that would allow them to make their own decisions, like I used to do at that age. PS I should note that I've been setting up a PS2 that we got in a rummage sell but they have mostly ignored it?

So I am wondering, what are some of the worst Homebrew Ideas that have ever been suggested. The worst thing I could think of is to resurrect the Basic Programming idea originally done by Atari, but to pick another more ideosyncratic language. Although I guess it could have been worse I've dabbled into older versions of COBOL and find them to be even worse. So what is the worst idea you've heard or seen on the forums?

Background: My Atari 2600 is currently being used for free-time at a church youth group with mostly Middle Schoolers, Grades 6 to 8. As such some games just don't work well (even if at least one of them is my personal favorite) because they don't allow the involvement of enough people at one time, for example, Solaris, Night Driver, Berzerk, Golf, etc. So I am wanting to compile a list of games that either allow 2 players to play at once or that are alternating two-player with very little lag time between players (example, Video Pinball-good, Missile Command-bad). I am getting ready to purchase a second set of paddles (only one & 1/2 set managed to make it through, although I should note that paddles are fairly hardy anyways, it took a fully loaded 1 ton moving truck to break 1/2 paddle). But I am thinking that 4-player games would be extremely excellent. Below is a list of what I already know. 4-Player Breakaway IV-Breakout________________- - 2-Player Air-Sea Battle-Target Fun____________Basketball Combat-Tank Plus/Frontline___________Demons to Diamonds Dodge 'Em-Dodger Cars________________Football Home Run-Baseball____________________Indy 500-Race Outlaw-Gunslinger____________________Realsports Baseball Realsports Football__________________Sky Diver-Dare Diver Space Combat-Space Wars______________Space Invaders Quickly Alternating Single Player Bowling______________________________Infiltrate Journey Escape_______________________Towering Inferno Video Pinball-Arcade Pinball-Pinball I have also managed to pick up a local garage sale lot and have Demon Attack, Space Cavern, & Megamania that look like good possibilities although I don't know yet. I've also notice that Asteroids and Pac-Man isn't a problem even though they have long single player lag times, I don't know why though. If anyone else has insights I'd appreciate the wisdom. EDIT: I give up I can't figure out why the bottom of my post freaks out.