Faicuai

He is either running low on fuel, already... and losing altitude... or working full-time somewhere else. If anyone wonders how the warehouse looks like, well... just scroll their web-page... 😁 My view of B.E. changed DRASTICALLY when I walked-in IN PERSON around 2017 (happened to be in re are for entirely different reasons, and actually NEEDED parts...) The warning signs were already there... Since then I have been (successfully) sourcing my parts from other places. NOT what I actually wanted, but it was better that way...

Well, sounds like this would make RamRom-2023 a virtually mandatory, drop-in, plug-and-play upgrade for every 800 user out there, who prefers avoiding any on-board modification of an otherwise pristine host, while enjoying multiple OSes (including 16KB ROMs like OS/N Omnimon), 128 KB of battery-backed Mosaic RAM, 52KB base-ram window, and all of this while affording the luxury of enabling [RAS or Phi2] timing for those carts that really need it (including SIDE-2, etc.). Way to go!

Perfectly possible or doable (and even more if anyone wishing so), but not really needed on the 800. The exception would be being forced to exit the system with a circular / round cable, instead of a flat ribbon. But SOPHIA-2 upgrade, Bit3 FullView and Incognito's PBI-connector suggests the flat-ribbon concept works really well. A new I/O fascia would make a lot of sense if designing a new, drop-in, plug-and-play power board with DVI / RGB / analog / sound / FujiNet (and power control / back up) functionality, which opens up a whole new realm of possibilities (except for those users that sunk modifications on their old Power Board, which will be instantly screwed, of course). Generally speaking, it is not a good idea to conceptualize work on the 800 with the mentality and mindset derived from the restrictions of the 800XL / XE series. I saw that clearly when upgrading my own systems.

Solved. Here's another look: Bit3, Sophia-2, PBI, all tested. As long as they are flat, of course. Plus better cooling for the expansion bay, completely invisible, reversible (if spare top-shield is available) and no structural compromise or creepy-looking cuts on the expansion-bay cage itself.

The 800 does not need a "1090" external box, in principle. When upgraded with Incognito, its internal (and fully shielded, solid) expansion bay becomes a "defacto" place-holder for up to three cards, provided PBI-passthrough facilities are provisioned on such "PBI-compliant" boards. As a bonus, there is PLENTY of +12v and +5v DC power available in all slots, which makes it an ideal platform for this purpose (provided that the limited # of slots would meet your needs, of course). We have not even touched the fact that an entirely new CPU-board (with 6502, ANTIC and GTIA re-implemented on FGPAs) equipped with its own on-board RAM and ROM and bus-logic handling on CPLD, could provide not just system-wide acceleration, but also further simplify and free more space on the expansion bay, as well (in the future). In terms of today's electronics, we are just starting to scratch the surface with the 800. It is on a league of its own, relative to the rest of the lineup.

It can potentially look shit-ugly (once an external cart is standing on a bare-board), plus half-assed, too. If anyone wants PBI-port on the 1200XL without conducting MAJOR surgery on its case, only extraction point is precisely the cart-tunnel... and a board like this should also come designed to handle PBI signals and terminal points, plus preferably two cart ports (if possible) and something to hide or protect or isolate its surface and terminals... too much hot-stuff going through it. No pun intended at all, just an example itself of ALL the things that should be considered in terms of the host-machine's reality. This is what this thread is precisely about.

The 1200XL cart-port tunnel renders the AVG's cart extended functionality COMPLETELY useless... and in a machine as closed as a stuck clamshell as the 1200XL, that is essential. Not a fault of the 1200XL, not a fault of AVG... it is just that this functional area varies quite a bit among different host models... there may have been clarity on the cart. specs, but not at all on the cart-port itself, other than the edge-connector.

Well, you hit the nail with mallet, here. But as we peel the onion, we will arrive two inescapable conclusions: With the form-factor changes introduced by XL/XE lineup, so went through-the-window many of the original form-factor design considerations of the 400/800. A common, standardized spec. will be required for 400/800, 1200/1400XL and 800XL/65XE/130XE/XEGS system for carts, etc. While a longer and thinner one may be perfect for the 1200XL, it will look retarded when sticking out vertically on the 800, 800XL or XEGS, for instance. This will require a concerted, deliberate effort on the side of HW developers. Maybe it is time to form such a forum, aimed at regulating and standardizing designs and specs. Cart-bus and PBI-bus products based are in REAL need of this.

Unfortunately, the entire product line-up is divided in "isles", not just physically but geographically, due to the never-ending (and capitulating) cost-reduction cycles (and technology recycling) that Atari went-through trying to recover what it never could... And so is the mindset of hardware developers, unfortunately! Personally, even though I think the 400/800 (and 1200XL) represent they true essence of the company, these are quite different products than what eventually became mainstream in Europe (800 XL, XE-series, etc.). It is not easy to make design choices, not even in terms of PBI-bus configurations, because XL-PBI is NOT the same as XE-PBI and both are inexistent in 400/800/1200XL, for instance. But yes, I would also voice that there needs to be a common design framework around form-factor for the entire line-up, and preferably shared among all vendors. SIDE-2 and AVG fit on the 800, width-depth wise, but the side-walls need to be trimmed inwards on the bottom-inch left-and-side flanks, for the carts to fit... and the same cart will wobble back-and-forth when plugged on the 800XL, because of its larger depth-clearance on its cart-port... Go figure...

They never needed to be aesthetically "attractive" because the 400 / 800 cartridge bay has a dedicated access-door which once closed, hides the cart completely. This door, in turn, was completely removed from the XL/XE as part of the massive cost-reduction efforts which, in turn, introduced the issue of aesthetics of an exposed cart, plus looking totally goofy inserted on the middle of my 800XL. In that respect, I do like the 1200XL/1400XL cart's side-port much better, where (again) the aesthetics would not matter much.

"Lovely" fakeness. That's the world coming, where the joy of a "livable" fiction subdues the power of reason and critical thinking. Just imagine the kind of world inhabited by those born after all of this technology is mainstream... sort of like the same reality of those born with Facebook, Instagram, Twitter mainstream vs. those that never had that when growing up... Pathethic...

Nothing like the 400 / 800 Atari-designed carts, both material / construction and mechanically. Next could be AtariMax, but no protection to the card-edge connector. I have seen and felt most of what came later and they are just as cheap as they can be (except for increased capacity, improved banking-capabilities, etc.) When converting a Donkey-Kong Atari cart (gray) for another use here, I ripped-open and crushed its plastic case, bare-handed. Just awful quality. No pun intended, just calling it as I saw it...

Star Raiders also deals with PIA, which is why when flashed in the "Basic" slot of Ultimate1MB it will not work, because when it starts running, it banks out itself when setting PortB in a XL/XE-bus logic. In a 400/800 is different, but still, it is dealt with during SR's own HW initialization. Smells like both PIA and POKEY need to be checked, for sure... and if nothing there, then straight to both OS rom-chips and even CPU (that's why it is better to have a spare CPU board for quick swap-out and testing on the 400/800 series). When I have some time, I will fire-up my 800 test-bed, and take Pokey and PIA out, one by one, and fire Star Raiders, and carts like yours, to see if I get your same results.

Wow... did you get a black-screen? Any colors or sign of alien life? 🥴 If other games have started, that means SR is probably running but crashed during its own HW initialization code... That includes PIA, POKEY, etc. You will need a whole set of 400´s chipset to troubleshoot this... definitely starting with those chips, first...

I had this exact same problem on my first and long-gone 400, but after the unit would reach higher operating temp. and you pressed RESET. The E: session would never re-start fully, and/or machine locked-up. It would never really recover. If you have a Star Raiders cart, please, plug it in and power-up the system. It will run with executive priority, because OS/b boot-manager will pick up the cart´s "diagnostic" flag from a pretty early boot-stage, right BEFORE reaching E: session opening. RAM will not be even cleared by then. Let us know what you get on the screen.