Mutantant

Thanks! Yeah, the engines are as similar as they are different. Same basic resolution, texture size, etc. The only odd thing is how the textures are 128x128, which is square, but the game squishes them on the y axis, making them wider than tall. Sounds like an extra step on the already taxed processors, so I'm not sure why they didn't just have the textures at the proper aspect ratio and save cycle. /shrug

Last update before I move this to its own thread. The mod is up on ModDB: http://www.moddb.com/mods/jaguar-alien-vs-predator-doom/ Some images of WIP (note the original Jag version screenshot in the lower right): Thanks again to those who enabled me to get at the wall and floor textures and threw in some comments. Expect credit in the mod

Well, that is possible. I can't swear I'll do it that way as it will complicate things, but ZDoom has no real level limits. In other words, I can recreate the maps pure vanilla (which I would do before modifying them anyway) and then copy those to a separate section of maps, and make a "game+" version. Then when starting the game, much like one would select the "episode" to play in Doom, you'd select Vanilla or AvP+. Plus could have the ceiling aliens, moody levels, alt fire weapons, acid that melts away, while Vanilla is as much like the original, flaws and all, as I can make it without access to all the art assets.

I'll end up making a separate thread for this project soon, but just so those who've helped me so much getting these textures can see them in action, here are some screenshots of the work so far: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0By4XtP5_vJjsOXo1aGVva3pndG8/view?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/file/d/0By4XtP5_vJjsVmdLZ3A5bnJfU28/view?usp=sharing Note that there is a lot of hackery going on here, which makes it fun. For example, Doom does not support horizontally opening doors, or doors you can see through (like the brig barred doors). So I had to code (using ZDoom's advanced scripting features) a quasi-door that simulates the doors in AvP, being basically a line thick (0 pixels thick, really, as are many of the walls in AvP) and playing an animation on use. Works like a charm though. Again, the enemy and weapon sprites may well be different than the Jaguar version as they seem to be harder to get colored correctly. But that's fine, as let's be real here, the AvP sprites have like 2 animations each and would benefit from the slightly more fluid animations of good Doom sprites. I'll be asking for a lot of opinions in the new thread, but here's a question for you folks now: Recreate the levels 100% as they existed in the Jag version? Or spice up the atmosphere a bit with darker areas (broken lights in some rooms, maybe), sparks bursting from jammed doors, maybe some burns and the like in areas that may have had battle before you arrived, and that sort of thing?

Methinks he'd whisper "make it so..."

Wow, perfect. This plus a little screenshot + Photoshop work means we have access to all the wall textures, and many of the game screens. Thanks for that! One issue seems to be the larger, full-screen images (like the Marine/Pred/Alien selection images) are losing the bottom few pixels completely. The smaller images are perfect, however. You can see on these screens the border missing on the bottom maybe 10%. Now, as these are JP80 and JP90 images, I take it they are different than the weapon sprites and such that were ripped earlier? The last piece of this puzzle would be to have this demo load the textures it does already, plus the currently ripped sprites, and the still yet unfound enemy sprites, in the emulator. This would give me access to all the graphics I'd need. Example of the main hall texture, screenshotted from VJ running this demo, used in ZDoom (ignore the generic textures surrounding the wall in question): https://drive.google.com/file/d/0By4XtP5_vJjsOHNMeXlnbXQtQUE/view?usp=sharing

What did you use to view the images? JagView makes a mess of these, and a small utility I found called view_jag does a good enough job on some but not on all. Also, as per usual, the colors seem all wrong, meaning a palate file exists somewhere (or not, could be hard coded). EDIT: Looks like JagView does fine if you know what you're doing...lol. Oddly, I get the best results with the weapons when I view them as PAL 8-bit. But then they are greyscale. Interesting. EDIT 2: And some of the images (like the arm and shotgun) display better as CRY, but still with crap colors. Some colors are almost right, and the rest are way off.

Yeah, I'm not mad enough to delve into Jag development with what free time I have. No sir. Though I'm sure ZDoom could be compiled for the Jag and the mod could end up on a cart that way. But not I, not I.

Pimp dude, pimp! You need to pick that mic up so you can drop it again and again. I'll take a gander as soon as I get home. And this is why I came to AA forum-to tap into the power of hex wielding rom fiends to find something I was unable to!

Not a dumb question at all. ZDoom (the software only version of ZDoom) allows skewed Duke Nukem type mouselook. GZDoom, the OpenGL ZDoom, allows full 3D mouse look. Both also allow jumping. These can be limited and disabled by me as I see fit developing the mod. Of course, the vanilla AvP maps are all on a 2D plane, with no real reason to look up or down. But, aliens do so love the ceiling...and I already have the code to make certain aliens pop out of the ceiling (vents and the like) if it seems like something that would be cool. Looking up and down would be very handy then.

Thanks for asking, these are all valid questions with a simple answer. This is not a Jaguar coding project but rather a port or conversion of one of the best Jag games on to another system and engine. The engine in question is ZDoom. It is a Doom source port that has been updated monthly almost from the very release of the Doom source code to today. It adds a trillion things, not the least of which is 3D architecture, full mouse look, OpenGL, scriptable enemy behavior, full full full modding capability. Like full. At this point it acts as a perfect engine for any 2.5D FPS game you could want. People have used it to create things nothing at all like Doom. I am an experienced Doom modder, and ZDoom modder, and in the end the engines are more similar than different, early 1990s 2.5D shooter with similar texture resolutions, monster Sprite sizes, etc. The goal: Recreate the experience of AvP using ZDoom, which is an engine that runs on PC, Mac, Android systems, and others. Recreate the tension, puzzle maze craziness, the struggle for ammo and health. Do so with original graphics if I can, or existing AvP style graphics if I cannot. Using ZDoom's advanced enemy AI scripting abilities (Google ZDoom ACS), recreate the enemies, not as reskinned imps and demons, but as Aliens and Predators. And while doing so, iron out a few annoying gameplay elements in a way that doesn't ruin the balance, i.e., if a grenade launcher is added to the pulse rifle, make ammo rare and explosions so wide and deadly that it makes it skill based to use without killing yourself in a tight hallway. Finally, to do this quickly, as the Internet is filled with languishing half finished projects. As far as 100% guarantee to finish it...well if I say yes, then you know I'm lying, as this is how it works on the net. So, I leave this at "I really think so, and have most of it already planned in my head, and years of experience to back it up, but God knows I could be killed by a freak bus falling out of the sky at any moment so who knows" level.

Hey all, OP here to quickly make something super clear before the thread turns into a back and forth AvP comparison thing... AvP is flawed. So was Fallout, Baulder's Gate, Myst, etc. All games have flaws. Even the greats. That's why game patches exist, something I think AvP would have had if it was a PC game now rather than a hard coded permanent cart in 93. I think AvP is a good enough game to spend my very limited free time working on a remake of, so have little doubt I think it's a truly amazing game in every respect. It was at the time. It is today. But some things are flaws. Gameplay flaws (unavoidable acid on the ground in a game where health kits are sparse, halls at thin, ammo limited, and enemies plentiful). Flaws caused by system limitations (frame rate hindered by Atari's odd limitations on what programmers were allowed to do with each of the multiple processors in the Jag, super gimpy save ram space on carts leading to every enemy respawning on load since there wasn't enough space to save much more than ammo count and location). As I think about a remake, I must also think about the strengths and weaknesses of the game. It's only natural to list some of those out. But these do not reflect on the game as a whole. The Jag was a hard system to code. Atari was a harsh taskmaster. Time was tight. The game was literally the best it could be at the time. I do not, however, think it's a bad idea to remix some of the limitations into strengths as the game is being rebuilt from scratch. No one needs to defend the honor of the game. It's a great game. One of the best ever. Hence why I want to play it again, this time in higher resolution, with better saves, and a few tweaks P.s. this is not a direct reply to NeoGeoNinja, so please don't take it as such. NeoGeoNinja is responding to a long history of hearing this or that complaint, many unfounded, and it's all cool that they dropped a message here. I just want to head off a reply->angry reply->defense->more reply dark message board spiral of thread death

Nice document, thanks. Using the ram dump idea, I loaded t2k_0.06c and loaded the game. t2k_0.06c does poorly with AvP, won't run the marine campaign at all, marines won't fire on you as an alien, and the marine sprites are screwed, BUT it does allow for a save-state ram dump. Using that dump and JagView I managed to get some textures and sprites, but the colors are all wrong no matter what mode I set. Don't know if it is a JagView bug or a palate thing. VJ doesn't seem to allow ram dumping and when using HxD to dump the ram of the whole program I wasn't able to get any decent results. The document you copied here seems to state the graphics get loaded in and out of RAM a lot as well, so that could be a problem. However, it also gives me a number of textures: 65 (plus a few extra for signs) which means VJ + screenshots + Photoshop = getting all the textures. This would suck, of course... I agree with most of that and will keep it in mind. Shotgun design, maybe, as the beta has no animations for me to use. Acid puzzles, certainly, as I think that's poor game design in a game with such limited health. Needs to disappear sooner or later, somehow. Or you need to get boots, or have the ability to jump. Mapping system would be ZDoom standard, i.e. better than Doom, and Doom was better than AvP as it was. Cacooning, maybe a bit faster. Game speed, AvP * 1.5 - in other words, way slower than Doom, but faster than AvP, as AvP was slow only due to frame rate. To see what I mean, load AvP in VJ and turn on faster blitter. Plays so smooth, and a bit faster, but still slow and methodical.

My idea was to keep the good and ditch the bad. Speed up the gameplay a little, as much of the slow gameplay was actually a function of frame rate rather than actual design. But not have it KILL KILL KILL Doom paced speed either. Keep the map design and basic elements, the 3 modes of play, all of that, but also be rid of the bit where all enemies repopulate after a save, because that was due to save ram limitations rather than design. That's not to say enemies won't repopulate over time... Just it will be a controlled respawn to keep tension and danger up but not cheaply destroy all your ammo reserves due to everything coming back at once...I hated that.

Ooh, I do love being first!