Chronogamer

One of the interesting facts about Roulette is the house percantage is the same for every bet, other than the 5-number bet on wheels with both 0 and 00 - when it's worse. Although it makes sense, if you bet both black and red you will break even unless the wheel comes up 0 (or 00). The lure of Roulette is the 36:1 payout if you bet on the right number.

 

Keno is the grandfather of the N of M lotteries. Again, the only reason it's interesting to play is the high payout against long odds. Same goes for slots.

One of the interesting facts about Roulette is the house percantage is the same for every bet, other than the 5-number bet on wheels with both 0 and 00 - when it's worse. Although it makes sense, if you bet both black and red you will break even unless the wheel comes up 0 (or 00). The lure of Roulette is the 36:1 payout if you bet on the right number.

 

Keno is the grandfather of the N of M lotteries. Again, the only reason it's interesting to play is the high payout against long odds. Same goes for slots.

 

That is interesting, and I can see how it would be interesting with real money on the line, to a point. My family and I recently went to a race track. Betting on the horses was pretty fun, but they'd recently added a slot machine room, through which we were not allowed to waltz with our children in tow. My wife did go through later and said she'd seen zombies in movies that were more animated than the people playing those machines.

 

What does the "N of M" mean?

One of the interesting facts about Roulette is the house percantage is the same for every bet...

 

From what I understand, that isn't true in Monte Carlo, or at least hasn't been historically. If the "0" comes up (there's only one), all bets are marked as "imprisoned". If the next spin of the wheel is one that should pay off, the bettor's money is returned.

 

Thus, if you put $360 on "red" and the wheel hits "0", your bet would be effectively reduced to $180 (since if you win, you'll only get $360 back instead of $720). If you'd put the $360 on "1-12" and the wheel hit "0", your bet would be effectively reduced to $120 (since if you win, you'll get back $360 instead of $1080). And if you'd put it on "7", your bet would be effectively reduced to $10 (your winning would be $360 instead of $12,960).

 

BTW, craps is a somewhat interesting game. Not that there are any plays which offer better than 100% payout, but some actually come extremely close. As a trap for the unwary, though, there are some bets that may be placed several ways with different payout awards. If one wishes to bet that a 6 will appear before the next 7, one may either place one's bet on a small number 6 on the table (I forget the exact layout) or on a big six near the corner. If a $6 bet is placed on each, they'll pay out under the same circumstances, but the former will pay out $7 (plus the original $6 back) for a house vig of 2.78%; the former only pays out $6, for a house vig of 9.10%. Put another way, if you put $6 on the "Big Six" and win, you give the house $1 free as a stupidity tax.

What does the "N of M" mean?

 

Choose N numbers from a pool of M. There are M! / (N! * (M-N)!) ways to do that. For example, if you want to choose six balls out of twenty, there are (6 choose 20) ways of doing that; 20!/(6!*14!) = 2432902008176640000 / (720*87178291200) = 38,760.

 

When computing combinations, btw, it's easiest to note that N! / (N-M)! is the same as N*(N-1)*...(N-M+1); you don't have to let the numbers get huge if you take advantage of the fact that many of the factors cancel.

Cool! Thanks for the explanation and the math. Math is good. Me like math. Using math in gambling is a good way to make it more interesting when there is no money involved.

 

I think I prefer the way DOA:Extreme Beach Volley Ball handles gambling. You can win virtual money and then have something to spend it on, all while looking at artificial women who aren't unpleasant to look at. *sigh* that's only, what, 25 years away from where I am now?

One of the interesting facts about Roulette is the house percantage is the same for every bet...

From what I understand, that isn't true in Monte Carlo, or at least hasn't been historically. If the "0" comes up (there's only one), all bets are marked as "imprisoned". If the next spin of the wheel is one that should pay off, the bettor's money is returned.

That just halves the house percentage from 1/37 (2.7%) to 0.5/37 (1.35%), it's still the same no matter whether you bet on 18, 12, 9, 6, 4, 3, 2 or 1 number.

That just halves the house percentage from 1/37 (2.7%) to 0.5/37 (1.35%), it's still the same no matter whether you bet on 18, 12, 9, 6, 4, 3, 2 or 1 number.

 

From my understanding, suppose you bet $18 on "even". If an odd number comes up, you lose. If an even number comes up, you get $36. If a "0" comes up followed by odd, you lose. If a "0" comes up followed by even, you get back $18.

 

Suppose you instead bet $1 each on 2, 4, 6, 8, etc. If an odd number comes up, you lose. If an even number comes up, you get $36. If a "0" comes up followed by odd, you lose. If a "0" comes up followed by even, you get back the $1 you bet on the particular number that came up, and lose the other $17.

That just halves the house percentage from 1/37 (2.7%) to 0.5/37 (1.35%), it's still the same no matter whether you bet on 18, 12, 9, 6, 4, 3, 2 or 1 number.

 

From my understanding, suppose you bet $18 on "even". If an odd number comes up, you lose. If an even number comes up, you get $36. If a "0" comes up followed by odd, you lose. If a "0" comes up followed by even, you get back $18.

 

Suppose you instead bet $1 each on 2, 4, 6, 8, etc. If an odd number comes up, you lose. If an even number comes up, you get $36. If a "0" comes up followed by odd, you lose. If a "0" comes up followed by even, you get back the $1 you bet on the particular number that came up, and lose the other $17.

Let's look at it from $1 red bet.

first spin red (18/37) returns $2

first spin black (18/37) returns $0

first spin 0 (1/37), second spin red (18/37) returns $1

first spin 0, second spin black or 0 (19/37) returns $0

EV = $2 * 18/37 + $0 * 18/37 + $1 * 18/37 * 1/37 + $0 * 19/37 * 1/37

EV = 36/37 + 18/1369 = 98.6% (versus 97.3%)

HP = 1.39% (versus 2.7%) (okay worse than 1.35%, but I didn't factor in the second 0 spin)

 

Now, reading http://www.casinomontecarlo.com/en/games/t...an_roulette.pdf it sounds like when 0 is spun bets lose half thier value. So there's still a 36:1 payout on single numbers (just for half the bet).

 

In any case, the important thing is to realize the EV/HP doesn't depend on the bet. So for a single number bet:

EV = $36 * 1/37 + $18 * 1/37 * 1/37 = 98.6%

It's interesting to note, although not terribly germain to the above discussion, that roulette wheels in the real world have exhibited behavior that indicates a mechanical preference for a certain number due to anomolies in their construction. The Garcia-Pelayo family (father and son team) was able to exploit this by standing around in a casino tracking every single spin of the wheel and analyzing the frequencies of the results. With a large enough sample they were able to predict the best numbers to bet on and eventually, walk out with a lot of money.

 

http://www.b2g5.com/boards/board.cgi?actio...amp;user=mahony

 

Hmm, I'd bet their strategy doesn't work on casino/cruise ship/river boats. Heh.

It's interesting to note, although not terribly germain to the above discussion, that roulette wheels in the real world have exhibited behavior that indicates a mechanical preference for a certain number due to anomolies in their construction. The Garcia-Pelayo family (father and son team) was able to exploit this by standing around in a casino tracking every single spin of the wheel and analyzing the frequencies of the results. With a large enough sample they were able to predict the best numbers to bet on and eventually, walk out with a lot of money.

 

A Vegas roulette wheel has to be pretty badly 'off' for a player to be able to beat the house, even with full knowledge of its idiosyncracies. Monte Carlo roulette doesn't offer quite so large a vig to the house, but even so the vig should still be bigger than any discrepancies in the wheel probabilities.

I'm happy you guys found something interesting to discuss on these games. :-)

 

I was also utterly bored by them. Particularly with Slots, which I also don't get. I know one-button games have become a trend, but this is just too literal.

 

These games all rely on luck, however if you happen to be playing them, you don't have any.