pocketmego
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Posts posted by pocketmego
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A-Team is superior!
OK, I'm willing to humor this for a second. Let's say this DID come out as an A-Team game. I believe that the A-Team version would have been an even bigger bomb than ET. No one who watched that show would have been able to make heads or tails out of a Giant Mr. T Head that shot lazers at anything in sight.
It was a thuroughly bad idea to convert a current game to the license and new game should have been designed especially with the series having a few years of popularity in it. It wasn't like a movie where they had to rush the thing into production and a unique game would have FELT more like the sourcer material. I have NO doubt that had Activision or Imagic gotten that license the game would have ROCKED!
-Ray
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Here is a great write-up and clip for the Ms. Pac-Man commercial from X-Entertainment. I thought this was beyond funny...
((snip))
Atari 2600 -- Ms. Pac-Man:
More was at stake with this commercial that you might think. It's no secret that Atari's rendition of fabled arcade classic Pac-Man was so damned awful that former company president Miles Gildenberg was found shot to death in a back alley with "ripoff" written on his head, penned by the assailants in his own blood. I was really young at the time and found no issues with the game when I inherited the 2600 system from my older brothers, happy oblivious to what I only now recognize as major glitches. Others weren't so giving in their reviews. When Atari finally swallowed its pride to announce intentions on creating Ms. Pac-Man, consumers were skeptical. This commercial had to restore their faith somehow, and it seems like it did.
Though vague in how they say it, the ad totally admits that Pac-Man sucked. They usher in Ms. Pac-Man not only as Pac's wife, but as his superior. They even throw in some weird shit about a "green screen" maze so mysterious and elusive that you'd have to be out of your fucking mind not to buy the game. Just as your head narrowly avoids explosion from all of the excitement, bam, it happens. A Betty Boop-ish animated Ms. Pac-Man breaks through the game footage like a riotous pitcher and busts into a song number quicker than your mind can first process the image of her sultry yellow legs. And believe me, no matter what you think her voice is going to sound like, it's going to absolutely shock you. Line of the night: "Honey, don't you know? I'm more than Pac-Man with a bow!" Enjoy, and sing along.
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Plus the computer animation is actually much more impressive than was in that film.
-Ray
I don't know what your definition of impressive is, but after reading this:
"At the time, computers could generate static images, but could not automatically put them into motion. Thus, the coordinates for each image, such as a lightcycle, had to be entered for each individual frame. It took 600 coordinates to get 4 seconds of film. Each of these coordinates was entered into the computer by hand by the filmmakers."
- I am much more impressed by the computer graphics in the movie than the video game. Nowadays, any kid in his basement can make a CG model and animate it. How is that impressive?
But on topic: I remember in the early ninties how video games could improve and i remember thinking, "Doom will look less pixelated"
I guess it came true.
Ok fair is fair. A LOT more work went into producing the original Tron special effects and that was something I hadn't thought of. I stand corrected.
-Ray
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Spider Fighter? Or was that big in the day? I hadn't even heard of it prior to the Activision Anthology.
Atlantis and Cosmic Ark maybe?
-Ray
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Yep, I agree. It was blatantly obvious, even back then
Yep, and Activision was bigger and better every single time.
Well, no, but close.
Yeah, I'm a big ol' Activision Fanboy, but even I like Battlezone and Starraiders better than there Activision Equivalents.
-Ray
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Wow, its hard to know where to jump in on this thread.
I fully admit that I love Chopper Command, BECAUSE it plays better than Atari's Defender. But, what makes it really special is that it has the freedom to look nicer and have its own distinctive game mechanics, because it ISN'T Defender as well.
I also agree with the poster who mentioned Sid Meier is overated. I didn't even know who he was before Sid Meier's Pirates came out and I realized he was the same guy who made civilization. Back in the days of my C64, that game was strictly called Pirates. Or among enthuisiasts of that particular style of game it was called, "Not as Good as Seven Cities of Gold."
Myamoto's work as a producer is minimalistic and he would never take credit of his team workers in that huge list of games. He only ever refers to his own actual game creations when talking about his own work. mario, Zelda, Pikman.
No one, or at least I wasn't, refuting that he is a great man. actually I admire him because every interview I've ever read with the made paints hima s a very kind and good man. He loves his work and his co-workers and you can't ignore that aspect of his personality.
There are many other people who are terribly over-looked in the histrory of games. i mentioned David Crane originally because as far as a I am concerned it is HE and not Myamoto who is the father of the multi-screen side scroller. I also do not believe that the side scroller represented the end of random video game playing. It was simply the hot trend of the era, much as Space Invader style gaming followed the trend of that particular mega-hit.
Freeway and Frogger came out at virtually the same time as someone stated and I wish he had kept the Human and blood stains in it, because it makes Freeway much more challenging.
Eugene Jarvis and Ed loog should both be in Hall of Fames somehwere along with Bushnell and the guy who invented Space war. Until this hobby gaines some legitimacy (40 years strong and still treated like EC Comics), they will never get the honor they deserve. The Video Game community desperately needs a respectable Lifetime achievement award with a non-G4-Samuel L. Jackson style award ceremony to give it some better press.
Activision's early strength was to make better versions of Atari games and that is a reality.
-Ray
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Interesting that its for left handers.Says who? I'm right handed, and I always preferred the stick right/button(s) left configuration started (for me, anyway) by the Atari 2600. Why Nintendo and everything that came afterward chose to reverse the layout is beyond my comprehension.
I always wondered that myself.
Of course, I'm OK with it, being left-handed... but then the right-handed 2600 stick never caused me any problems.
About the MultiJoy... I take it that's a different connector than what's found on an Apple IIc? Somewhere I have a controller for the IIc, but I remember it having a lot fewer than 16 pins.
People tend to overlook just how absolutely revolutionary and brilliant in design the Atari 2600 sticks were. compact and user friendly to left and right handers. Ok, so the hand cramping sucked, but we knew no better.
-Ray
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having spent more than a few marathon sessions playing Saboteaur on my *cough* *cough* Flashback 2 *cough* *Cough*, I am more than a little impressed with it. I think an untampered (no A-Team PLEASE!!!) version of this game would have been HUGE.
For one thing it is an indireact sequal, with cameos even, of an INCREDIBLY popular Atari Game. It is very fun to play, the difficulty ramps up at a pretty dramatic pace, but practice makes this not a big deal. I even found myself learning new strategies and unique gameplay manuevers after having already played the game several times.
Like I said...HUGE!!!
But, how big?
Would it have been Yar's Revenge or Pitfall big? Space Invaders or Defender maybe?
Might word of it being created by ET's programmer have hurt it?
All this assumes the crash never happened and the game was released in its original form, of course.
I certainly would hope we would have seen a comic with it.
-Ray
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I think someone should convince Dennis Debro (my favorite programmer) or maybe one of the great guys at XYPE like Thomas or whoever to maybe program a Tempest for the 2600. Or maybe even Ken Siders could do it for the 7800! What I love is Tempest and any new Tempest game would be SPECTACULAR to see! No more shopping at the flea market hoping to score something good once I get that game in my hand.
There is so MUCH incredible talent on this site that a very playable and decent version of Tempest could be done on the Atari 2600. I agree wholeheartedly Joe.
I believe that Tempest is the perfect Arcade Game. Easy to Learn, Hard gto Master, and Addicting as hell.
Any Homebrewer looking to make a copy of Tempest for the 2600, can put me down for a copy right now, sight unseen.
-Ray
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I had never played the ACTUAL Saboteaur, only the A-TEAM Rom, which I thought was pretty stupid.
But, when you play the actual game, it not only make sense, but its a lot of fun to play. Plus I love that it continues the storyline from Yar's Revenge and even has you fighting off some Yar Flies.
-Ray
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If you haven't seen the box-art for Ninja Golf then go look it up right now. It's hilarious
LMAO!!!!
Now that is TRULY classic. That is now the background on my desktop. I'm going to add this particular tag line to my signature as well...
In Ninja Golf, par for the course is leaving a trail of fallen enemies!!!
LOL
-Ray
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I think that if anyone were to even attempt to create tempest 2600, they'd need to rethink the game entirely. Like battletank, forget the vector graphics because it's not possible on the 2600 - create something totally different but that has the feel of the arcade original.
That's how we got Turmoil. IIRC, Turmoil was supposed to be for Tempest what Yars' Revenge is to Star Castle. The only difference is that Fox, instead of Atari, stepped up to the plate with Turmoil, which I prefer any day over the arcade Tempest. I imagine Beamrider has a similar story to it as well, but I've never so much as looked at a cart of it, let alone played it.
I also feel the driving controller would be PERFECT for controlling this game.
Yep, hit the button and hold it to shoot, hit it twice for a Super Zap.
Yes, I can certainl;y see the similarities to Tempest wshen playing Turmoil. It is certainly fast paced and has its own nuances as well. Though it still lacks that something that makes the Arcade Tempest so enjoyable. Probably, it is the side to side controll set up that is way more arkward in execution than Tempest. Tempest has such fluidity of control that the game feels perfectly natural to play, even if you've never touched it before.
-Ray
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Scrapyard Dog was too repetitive unlike Mario where it was like you know different levels and water worlds and night levels and all that stuff.
Huh? I thought Scrapyard Dog had tons of variety -- City levels, Junkyard Levels, Sewer Levels and a Factory Level -- 17 in total.
I agree that there's a lot of repetitive 7800 games, but don't agree about Scrapyard Dog being one of them.
Scrapyard for the Lynx rocked, I still haven't been able to get into the orginal 7800 version yet....God knows I try.
I went ahead and downloaded the ROM for Scrapyard tonight after reading the posts about it here. Um...yeah...
I'm not exactly sure about what to say, except that if this was in direct competition with Super Mario Brothers then the 7800 stood little chance of survival.
-Ray
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no one else thinks the 'chuck the chase wagon' topic is funny? finally got this game recently, had actually played the rom on my super charger a few years ago just to see what it was. entirely unremarkable imho. not horrible, not great. from a gameplay persepective, though, if I paid $100 to play this game, i'd definately chuck the chase wagon out the window.
Not me, if I paid that kind of money I'd play that game so much my thumb would need a permanent bandaid. Not because I would think it was great, just because I would feel the need to play something I spent that much on a LOT.
I think its hilarious that people play a game for 100 dollars on a system with an average after market cost of 40 bucks.
-Ray
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Seems like Activision had alot of "arcade inspired" games...Chopper Command, Robot Tank, Enduro...
I read an article (in Retro gamer I think) where David Crane said that ina lot of those cases they weren't necessarily making unlicensed Arcade copies, so much as they were making games to deliberately compete with Atari.
Atari would put out its game...
Star Raiders
Defender
Pole Position
Battlezone
Activision would counter with...
Starmaster
Chopper Command
Enduro
Robot Tank
This strategy wasn't only, obviously, successful, but it helped them to produce some of their biggest selling games as well. True or not?
Who's to know?
-Ray
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OK, it may be a Noob question, but i don't care...cause I gotta know.
What is a Heavy Sixer and why are they called that?
Thanks
-Ray
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You're absolutely right, pocketmego.
Hats off, David Crane:
http://images.google.nl/imgres?imgurl=http...6lr%3D%26sa%3DN
BTW: You gotta love his haircut. It hasn't changed one hair in almost thirty years!
LOL, that's true. if not for the beard he's look like the same guy in the old Activision catalogues, just with wrinkles.
Thanks a lot for the link, I enjoyed reading more about him. I wish i had the guy's E-mail address, he is certainly one of my heroes in the business.
-Ray
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There is something about the history of gaming that has been bothering me for some time. The fact is that everywhere you look in gaming histories you see Shigeru Myamoto held on high like some kind of gaming god. Which to some extent is fine. he did a LOT to create enduring characters that are still being used today and he has created many new and invigorating gaming experiences.
However, more often than not Pitfall and its creator David Crane seem relegated to almost footnotes in the history of this medium. Except that Pitfall is the first multiscreen platformer, pre-dating Super Mario Brothers by 2 years (Japanese release). Now, admittedly, Pitfall Harry is not the character Mario is and has only been showcased in number of mediocre, modern games. The magic of the original 2 games just never seemed to continue into the later games.
Now, don't get me wrong, Crane gets his fair share of spotlight. However, by and large this seems to come from the overall history of being an Activision founder and not so much as being the father of the multi-screen platforming game.
Add the other notably historical games to his resume such as Ghostbusters and you start to see that he has created as many innovative and unique gaming experiences as Myamoto.
This seems like a case of the winner (post Crash NES) writing the history books, while the "looser" (Activision Atari/Commodore) gets left behind.
We hobbyist seem to keep the memory of the Atari and early 80's era of gaming alive, while an entire generation looks to Nintendo as the pioneering video game company. The crash seems to be this insurmountable wall and creators like Crane are left in the footnotes and sidebars of history while the post Nintendo creators are elevated to legendary status.
That just doesn't seem right to me.
-Ray
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Well even if thwe game was never finish I made this label art as my way of some day it will but in the mean time I still play the prototype game with this
Dude that is some damn fine work. It looks exactly likme it would have looked if the game made it into stores. Great Job!!
-Ray
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I'lkl be even more impressed if they make a playable version.
-Ray
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I was brainstorming one day how a tempest game could be written for the 2600 and I came up with this:
Like Beamrider, use dots for the vertical "lines". If possible (I am no programmer), create the frame of each level with the play field. In essence, it's like Beamrider but instead of a flat surface, they are rudimentary pseudo-3d levels.
I think that if anyone were to even attempt to create tempest 2600, they'd need to rethink the game entirely. Like battletank, forget the vector graphics because it's not possible on the 2600 - create something totally different but that has the feel of the arcade original.
I also feel the driving controller would be PERFECT for controlling this game.
Very good point. Nothing about the arcade version could be kept except the feel of the game. Battlezone and Asteroids are excellent and worthwhile examples of this. Defender.... not so much.
-Ray
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When unable to get a license to a particular game, which do you think was the better approach, copying it and calling the game something else or making a game with some of the same features, but with its own identity?
A great example is my particular favorite 2600 game Chopper Command. Bob Whitehead did not just reproduce Defender with a Helicopter. Instead he took some of the best elements from Defender and made an impressive and unique game with its own variations and playstyle. This made this game a big hit.
Likewise, if you take something like Mousetrap. Well its just Pac-Man with a couple of added features. A better example would have been Minesweeper on the Vectrex which is really nothing more than Asteroids. Still both Mousetrap and Minesweeper can be enjoyable games.
But, what do you think was the better approach in this sort of copywright dodging?
-Ray
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I say Asteroids. Simply because it was around almost as long as the system itself and everyone always owned it. It must have sold so consistently to make it the best selling game by default.
-Ray
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The thing about the 2600 era is that there wasn't this built-in idea of a 5 year lifespan. I think all of these companies thought of their current consoles at that time as fairly static, i.e. if they could just keep making games and add-ons, they could basically sell them forever. I don't think any manufacturer seriously thought there wouldn't come a time when people would lose interest, but the life cycle wasn't measured in "generations" or in 5 year chunks.
I also don't think there was an idea yet that you had to keep churning out hundreds of games per year. There was instead the thought that hey, people have been playing games like Chess and Go for thousands of years, so if we can first of all create electronic versions of those, and second of all create new games with that same longevity, then we can just keep selling the same games for years.
Nowadays video games are mostly disposable (with some exceptions) and people constantly want new ones. But that wasn't really the thought back then. So I think they *hoped* they could keep selling the VCS/2600 basically forever, though I think in terms of the number sold, it was actually a lot more successful than they'd planned.
I agree with most of this. Back then, people used to get their *toasters* fixed if they broke, rather than chucking it and getting a new one at Wal*Mart. And for the sheer fact that this was literally a revolutionary product, there was not much previous data to predict a life-cycle.
In fact, as I have always argued, I don't think that there was much of a "plan" at all. Part of that is management's fault, though most of it is simply because this sort of thing had never been done before.
If you look at the life-cycle of coin-ops during that time, there is a definite progression in the hardware, obviously done to support the growing complexity of games. In a relatively short time, the industry went from Pong to Defender and beyond. But the 2600 remained the same. Why? Because it was still selling. Eight years down the road, you couldn't expect the arcades to be packed with people waiting to play Pong for the millionth time. But with the Atari, you could put together new and progressively better software using the same hardware.
Then came the crash, and the move to computers. Still even here the graphics and sound were not much to write home about when you had cutting edge machines like Space Ace. Can you imagine a system that used a standard coin-op setup for home videogame hardware? You would play real PacMan, real Defender, real Joust... not lousy ports that had to "make do" with the system. I know that a lot of stuff went into those coin-ops, but would it really have been that cost prohibitive?
Anyway, I think the plan was just to ride that baby as long as possible, then move onto the next thing that came up. I don't think that the 5200, the 7800, or any of the computers were up to the task which is part of why Atari slowly slid away...
~G
In terms of a coin-op perfect machine, yes it would have been ridiculously costly. The closest we got were the 16 bit machines of the 90's. But, they still weren't arcade perfect, in fact I was always suprised at some of the corners they had to cut, especially Sega.
SNK attempted to put out the NEO GEO in the mid to late 90's. This machine was made from the exact same technology that they used in their arcade machines. The ports were exactly the same games as in the arcade. The machine cost 600 dollars and the games cost 200 a piece.
As for the early 80's. I often wonder what people thought video games would look like in 2007. I remember being a kid and having crazy ideas about line graphic holograms and stuff. I never, and I bet no one else did either, imagined that we would see the kind of 3-D graphics that grace home systems these days. We have actually reached an age where it cost more to make the newest version of the TRON game on the various home systems than it did to make the original film. Plus the computer animation is actually much more impressive than was in that film.
-Ray
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Saturday Supercade - The 2600 Cartoon Show
in Atari 2600
Posted
When it aired it was the first of its kind, long before The Super Mario Brothers Super Show, The Legend of Zelda, Megaman, Sonic the Hedgehog, and even Pac-Man.
It was a cartoon based on the popular pre-crash games of the early 80's. It featured continuing storylines of all the popular icons of the era, even if they were in some rather "odd" setting.
I am of course talking about Saturday Supercade the 2600 Cartoon.
Mario was not only depicted a bumbling moron, but as a dick as well. He played the villain in this, thus giving more credence to his role in DKjr. Frogger, eesh, was newspaper reporter, and Q-Bert was some kind of bizare 1950's era Beach Party hero.
But, what kept this from being NOTHING more than a showcase of arcade games at the time and fully cemented it as a Home Console series was my favorite (even as a child) segment of the show...PITFALL!
In fact the show would gain a certain amount of immortality, because David Crane would include Quick Claw and Rhonda from the series in Pitfall II. Also, it should be noted that no arcade games that were not on the 2600 were animated for this show.
Here is something that should bring back some great memories...
-Ray