Rik1138

February 10, 2022

Well, he doesn't say he WANTS a board, he just tried to contact people at a certain website that he thought was involved in making the board.

Maybe he's trying to find out who they licensed the game from...

January 13, 2022

The cartridge was just a plastic picture frame for the hologram basically. It had some notches in the back of it, so when it was inserted in the game the notches selected the game it would play.

But yeah, each game 'cartridge' had it's own hologram. I think the Superman hologram and the Asteroids one are the most commonly available. Some ex-Atari employee I think had a few dozen of each and sold them on eBay a while back.

There's some more info in my website about it, and pictures of a working unit:

https://www.handheldmuseum.com/Atari/Cosmos.htm

If the AtariMuseum website works on the Web Archive, there's probably some more details there...

(Whatever happened to all the stuff Curt had?)

January 10, 2022

18 hours ago, Supergun said:

With specific regard to your comments on Marble Madness, in all honesty, it’s not a “maybe” anymore. And hasn’t been for some time now. They were literally selling the side art pieces and marquees at the “information table” of their “booth” at the Florida show in November. They also had more samples of the production cabinets at the show; with both trackball and joystick configurations. They even made the overlays “compatible” with both.

It is quite tangible, I assure you. I could literally buy a cabinet if I wanted to. I could even call the owner directly if I wanted to as we exchanged cell numbers at the previous show. For goodness sake, he lives here in central Florida. I could go visit him if I really wanted to.

Could you literally buy (not 'order') a WORKING cabinet? Officially licensed, and 100% legal? And pick it up tomorrow? I was under the impression that the board wasn't ready yet.

Yeah, the cabinet and artwork is easy enough to get, but anyone could make those.

The reason I'm still doubtful is their strange lack of willingness to say 'Yes, we licensed this from Atari (WB, whatever), and legit, legal full-sized cabinets will be available.'

Until they declare that, I'm still of the opinion they are doing this 'underground' and might, at any moment, get slapped with a C&D from the rights holder.

They either have the rights, and won't admit it (for no reason I can possibly fathom).

They don't have the rights, and are trying to get them (which means, if they can't, it may never happen).

They don't have the rights, and don't intend to try to get them, which means there's no telling how many will get made before someone gets sued.

They said the game 'wouldn't be cheap'. We all know what new full sized arcade games cost, so I'm assuming 'wouldn't be cheap' means wouldn't be cheap for an arcade game. So, $4000 or more for sure. Anything less than that is typical range for a standard upright arcade game and they could just say 'about the cost of a new arcade game'.

The fact that they won't answer questions like this still puts it in the category of 'I'll believe it when I see it, then we'll see how much people care...'

January 8, 2022

2 hours ago, negative1 said:

Why wouldn't they have the ROMs. They've had maze invaders and tons of other prototypes, and those have been put on sale through the Atari Vault releases.

Drivers for all these prototypes have been in MAME for decades, including Marble Madness 2.

There just wasn't any real interest in the games up until now.

later

-1

Because they've long since stopped caring about any of these games (or at least, went through a period of time that they didn't care). Atari got rid of almost everything to do with their arcade business I think before Midway bought them. All of their arcade motherboard archive (including prototypes), all the source code, artwork, documentation, etc was either trashed, or possibly saved by Scott and other Atari collectors. Most of the source code that wasn't printed on paper was on largely unreadable 8-inch floppy discs that no one in the company even knew what to do with.

Atari doesn't have copies of Marble Madness 2, Scott had to go to the only known existing source of the ROMs at the time- Flanagan. No one at Atari had the code, just a couple of boards with no ROMs. It seems a few other working boards have shown up in collections over the years (assuming Scott didn't sell his), but I don't think a single copy of Akka Arrh has been found outside of Scott's... (Although I just read there is a 3rd game somewhere...)

Same with Atari having Akka Arrh code, although the boards he got from Atari at least had the ROMs.

Obviously Atari (or the rights holder) has (or acquired) some of these games back, or maybe still always had some, but they don't have it all. (Not sure about Maze Invaders, was that already released in the MAME world, or was that Atari Vault release the first we ever saw it for public consumption?) But they got rid of a LOT of it. I'm not sure what someone like Scott would do if Atari now asked him for a copy of the ROMs so they could release a legit version of it (and thus, cause the ROMs to be released publicly, because someone would get them out of whatever they released...). Not sure if he'd be legally obligated to provide them, or financially convinced, or would just do it...

The drivers in MAME for the prototypes that Scott owns exist because Scott wanted to be able to emulate the games he has, and provided them the ROMs to write the drivers. Of course, under the agreement that they can't distribute the ROMs. Same with other games like Primal Rage 2 and Beavis and Butthead, etc. The only way these games will be licensed is for the licensing company to get the ROMs from private collectors. If none will share or sell, they can't get them from whoever owns the Atari copyrights because they don't actually have copies themselves.

(Maybe they have copies of some of the games, so that may not be a blanket statement. But considering that Atari was going to throw away 3-4 semi trucks full of their arcade history tells me there was a time when they didn't care about it, AT ALL. If it wasn't saved by collectors or employees, a lot of it is gone...)

But even now, there isn't really 'interest'. If Arcade1Up sold just an Akka Arrh cabinet, they probably wouldn't have sold more than a dozen... For the most part, no one has hard of it, knows what it is, or cares. But, add it to a game that will sell and is well known, like the 'Pedes and other popular track ball games, and you get some instant free publicity.

What would have been 'Oh look, Arcade1Up released Centipede/Millipede/etc, whee...' just another 1Up for the collection, instantly became 'OH MY GOD, LOOK AT THIS!' to every game site around posting that a rare, possibly 'stolen', prototype game was included. That wasn't included out of 'interest in the game', it was pure marketing.

Centipede's release wouldn't have made a headline anywhere, but including a game with that kind of controversy made it a headline everywhere. Hell, it even got into some print newspapers (they still exist), although only very small articles there...

Just like if they wanted to release a Marble Madness cabinet. Just MM would get the usual 'Cool, I loved that game', but if they could also say 'Someone broke into Flanagan's house, stole his game and dumped his ROMs, so we are including MM2 as well!' that's going to make headlines on EVERY classic gaming site on the 'net.

Whether the game is any good or not, everyone with even a casual interest in MM would go after the machine.

The only reason the current MM2 arcade cabinet 'promise' isn't drumming up more interest is that no one can really verify it'll happen, and by their own admission, 'it won't be cheap'. So really, of no interest to the casual home user as they will never see it. Most 'normal' arcades won't even care, so it won't be playable to most of the country anyway... At best, it just means a few replica-cabinets in the great niche arcades around the country and on more permanent display.

January 8, 2022

I think they licensed the game because the ROMs were suddenly available. I doubt the rights holder (WB now?) had copies of them at all, so without ROMs, there's nothing to license except a name hardly anyone knows.

Once the ROMs got leaked, they now had something tangible to license, and a lot of awareness of the game due to the news of how they were supposedly released.

Same with MM2, as I assume the game is officially being licensed, the people making the full size games have access to the ROMs. If they didn't, again there would be nothing to license except the name and maybe trying to code their own version of the game based on game play videos or something.

It is, essentially, the release of (or access to) the ROMs that makes any licensing possible.

If the MM2 ROMs were released publicly, then maybe Arcade1Up would license it and release a MM + MM2 cabinet. But if they can't get the ROMs, there's no point...

December 20, 2021

And, hey, if it's that easy to make a fake one that eBay isn't going to bother verifying... Just send them a fake one, problem solved. ?

November 11, 2021

On 11/7/2021 at 3:47 PM, Albert said:

What's weird about this is Gilligan's Island on DVD was released twice already on DVD (in 2005 and 2012, apparently), and you can buy it right now without having to wait until 2025. I'd say they made a mistake with this auction, but looking at it they would have had to screw up not online the listing title, but also several places in the description where it's stated this is a PRE-ORDER and will not be shipped until 2025. And not just 2025, but December 31, 2025.

And the one he's selling is actually the 2012 release (the UPC is from the 2012 Canadian release of Season 3).

Maybe he actually has it in stock and doesn't realize his listing is showing it as a pre-order? I can't imagine 84 people would pay for a 4 year pre-order...

August 20, 2021

Something I've seen a seller or two do: they keep bidding on their auction until they are the winning bidder so they can find out your max bid.

So, lets say you bid $100. The seller using a fake/friends account to bid $200 and is now the winning bidder at $101 (or whatever the increment is).

Then, they cancel their bid (which should drop your winning bid back down to one increment of the next bidder below you), and use another fake/friends account to bid $99.

That leaves you the winner, at your max bid.

It's kind of obvious when they do that though, as the 'second' bidder is always conveniently just under your max bid after the previous 'winner' cancels...

Now if your max was $100, and you got outbid, then the winner canceled and you won at, say, $20 because the next bid below you was only $19, then I'm not sure what is going on there... It's also possible someone just wanted to see what the max bids were, and then cancelled once they had that information...

August 6, 2021

It would be interesting to see a quality control report where someone's job was to critique the shades of the colors and suggest they should be changed...

It's so cool to see the different stages of development when these protos are found.

July 27, 2021

3 hours ago, x=usr(1536) said:

Don't believe everything you read on the Internet.

Who is, "THEY" in this context?

See point above re: HBMAME.

Heh, I don’t... that’s why I wrote it the way I did... I don’t actually care, so just read one story about it and moved on.

’They’ was referring to the MAME team that have (or had) access to the ROMs to write the original driver...

July 27, 2021

9 hours ago, x=usr(1536) said:

Probably not. The driver was developed somewhere in the vicinity of 20 years ago, so would require significant changes to fit into a modern MAME framework. It would be better for a new one to be developed from scratch, checked in, and voted on for inclusion or not.

Well, my question was basically would they put it in MAME if the ROMs were released...

the Akkh Arrh ROMs were (by the accounts I’ve read) flat-out stolen and released and they included that game... So while I understand THEY won’t release the ROMs themselves (which I wouldn’t expect), if they got out somehow, no reason to not include the game in MAME at that point... Sort of a ‘damage done’ situation, might as well...

July 27, 2021

Just now, x=usr(1536) said:

MAME is - and has been for about two decades at this point - honouring the non-distribution agreement that was set in place with Atari.

I wonder, would the MAME team release the driver if the ROMs were released, even 'unofficially'?

Just now, x=usr(1536) said:

Doesn't stop people from auctioning pre-loaded emulation shitboxes on eBay that they don't have the rights for.

Oh yeah, didn't say it wouldn't stop them, just pointing out it isn't their 'right'...

July 27, 2021

6 minutes ago, Keatah said:

My "mystery game" isn't MM2, or even from Atari or any Japanese co.

Ahh, mis-understood that... Thought you were talking about MM2.

July 27, 2021

18 minutes ago, Keatah said:

There's only one game I'd spend bux deluxe on. And should this "mystery" game ever come to MAME. The coders and dumpers working on the modules and drivers would get a handsome bounty. Patience.

Actually, there's no coding or dumping to be done. The MAME driver already exists, and the ROMs are already dumped...

Maybe this conversation will just encourage someone to share...

I think it would be funny to find out they aren't building anything, just trying to annoy someone into releasing the ROMs to 'shut them up'. Hehe...

18 minutes ago, Keatah said:

They can. That is their right. None of it's Earth shattering.

Well, it's only their right if it's legally licensed...

July 27, 2021

Well, that wouldn't work to get around a non-distribution agreement... It's the GAME that the author doesn't want released, not just the exact copy of the compiled code. If they are using enough of the code to make the game playable in the same state as the real hardware, it's still copyright infringement.

If he had actually licensed the code to sell legally, he'd say so.

So either he hasn't and is going to sell it anyway (and yes, selling a 'blank board' and 'Oh, here's a neat free download to make it work' is still selling the code. If people won't by the board without the promise of the game code, it's still illegal without a license because the 'free' distribution of the code is still a copyright violation).

Or he's trying to get a license to sell it. But that's something he could tell us. "I'm trying, but they might say 'No' "

Just come clean and tell us exactly what you are doing and what you have planned. Why is that so hard?

But since they apparently have gained permission to release the code, maybe someone else will just release the original ROMs now. As, one way or another, a playable version of the game is apparently imminent. Someone will buy one of these boards and just dump the ROMs so people can at least play it on an emulation of the hacked board...

Again, unless only 'trusted' people get the boards or the ROMs are modified uniquely for each board to scare people from doing it (which probably wouldn't work). Which would make them VERY limited (based on what you wrote), and as quoted, very expensive. Which means it applies almost NO ONE.

So bragging about it now is just that- bragging. As in "we have something you don't have". And we will become a dozen more people! Just not YOU.

The funny thing is, almost NO ONE cares about a limited release of any kind. Anyone that cares at all wants it RELEASED to everyone. So if you aren't teasing a future public release of the ROMs, most of what you have to say (and even do) most people don't care about. I'm happy playing the game annually at CAX. It'd be fun to have it at home to play once a year or something, and that's what people are hoping for.

They'll probably end up saying they made 3 or 4 and auction them just to make a bunch of money and then they can brag that they brought MM2 to the world...

July 27, 2021

14 minutes ago, negative1 said:

i'm not sure what the rush is now, and why everybody wants to try it out.

in the video, they said they are contacting people, and they would work with them if they had

the hardware or the knowledge.

if people are working on it, why not just wait, until they figure out how to get it to people.

maybe they're prioritizing JAMMA boards first, so it can be tested.

then they're working on the trackball support.

no point in trying to get it now, if its only halfway there, with the tweaks and fixes being made.

later

-1

Because there's no reason to wait for people that want the original code, to run on emulation of the original hardware.

If they can release the code, in ANY form, they can release the ROMs now for those of us that just want it in MAME.

Then when they get the hardware figured out with trackball support, offer that to the people that want to build a full arcade machine.

You are literally looking at, maybe, 10 people that want 'modified code on replica-ish hardware' compared to thousands that just want to play the original code on an emulator.

Release the original code now, share your new experiments as they happen. Those that like the game will still be eager for a trackball version as that really is the best way to play Marble Madness (and thus, I assume, MM2), and some will even be interested in the code modified for a more common board. But we will ALWAYS want the original code, untouched, preserved in MAME, and most people will prefer that anyway.

It sounds to me like one of two things will happen:

1- They will make one or two boards, and sell those to people they trust to never release the ROMs (thus 99.99% of the world still doesn't get to experience the game) (or even worse, just have a copy on their own board to prove to the world they can do, and still never share it with anyone. In which case, who the f*ck cares?)

or

2- They seem to think there's a huge market for a modified board/code so that they can sell a bunch of them and make money, then (maybe) release the ROMs...

(And maybe they'll never release the originals, making us have to settle for their modified ones...)

Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm willing to bet that #2 just ain't going to happen (the first part). MM2 is a novelty, sure most people want to play it ONCE... But I don't know how many people would pay $50 for a copy of it, much less however much it would cost to make the boards/customized code profitable...

July 26, 2021

Well, here's a simple question:

Clearly you have the ROMs for the game.

Clearly you are willing to release them (granted, in a slightly modified form to run on 'more common hardware').

Okay, that's great and all, especially for people that want to run it on that hardware.

But why not just release the original ROMs NOW, so people that just want to play it in MAME can do so, NOW. Once your modified ROMs are released, they'll just be distributed and put in MAME for emulation (maybe unofficially since they aren't the untouched ROMs, but it'll happen), so obviously releasing the ROMs to the public is no longer an issue...

So what is the wait for releasing the untouched ROMs?

July 12, 2021

The bid history only shows one bid by one bidder (the BIN at $1500). Doesn't show any bid retractions either...

If the seller cancels bids, would it still show in the bid history? (I know it used to, years ago, but no idea if eBay has changed that...)

He could have cancelled all bids, and then added the BIN...

July 11, 2021

I never knew Columbia had a Software Club... I assume like the CD and movie clubs where get a certain amount for 'a penny' and then have to buy a certain amount at full price over the next year or two? I probably would have tried to convince my parents to join that if I had known about it...

As for price, as far as eBay is concerned, it sold for the BIN listed in the auction... It doesn't look to be a 'best offer accepted'...

July 10, 2021

1 hour ago, x=usr(1536) said:

Close. IIRC, Atari initially built trak-ball versions for field testing, but, when the game didn't do well, they figured that it must be down to the controller type and re-tested with joysticks installed. When the game still didn't reach the earnings they were hoping for, they pulled the plug on it.

The version seen at CAX was the joystick version, at least when I played it back in 2000.

That's kind of exactly what I said. it was originally programmed for track balls, and then they changed their mind to joysticks...

The prototypes at CAX were joystick only as they had been converted to joystick for additional testing, then the game was scrapped. But the owner of the games that are brought to CAX has the code for the trackball controller but it's on a floppy disc in assembly language. An OLD-school 8-inch floppy disc formatted for whatever type of computer Atari was coding these games with back in the day (he told me at the time, but I don't remember what it was. Some now antique main-frame computer.).

He found a museum or collector that still has one of these old computers running and was going to see of they could read the data off the disc, then it would need to be assembled (which could be done by hand, tediously, if necessary) and burned to a ROM chip.

He has a trackball control panel (or maybe just the overlay) that he was building with trackballs and was going to bring it to CAX once he got it running... But it never showed up, so not sure of the status of it... (This conversation was probably in 2016 or 2017..)

It's possible the disc turned out to be unreadable, so it might not be an option anymore anyway...

1 hour ago, x=usr(1536) said:

Again, that is speculation, but it would be easier to just license the trak-ball version and be done with it than to license the joystick version and retrofit it for trak-balls.

It'll be interesting to see if anyone can actually license the code at all... Any kind of release will likely result in the ROMs also being released for MAME... This guy that's making repro arcade boards (that what it sounded like he was doing) won't be able to sell them if he can't provide the ROMs code. And once people can get it, it'll get spread on the internet, no matter how 'secure' you might make the board...

If you could just license the ROMs from Atari (or whoever owns them), I would have thought someone would have done that and just made a 'plug-and-play' unit to sell.

But I guess we'll just have to wait and see...

July 8, 2021

Actually, the code exists from Atari (back in the day) to support track balls. I think it was originally programmed for track balls, and Atari made the decision to switch to joysticks for some stupid reason... I'm pretty sure the guy that brings them to CA Extreme has it, but only in source-code on 8" floppy discs the last time I talked to him about it. He was in the process of finding a way to read the code of the discs and assemble it into a binary (I think he already has a track ball control panel for it).

This was several years ago, so it's likely he's done it already...

May 14, 2021

On 5/12/2021 at 9:48 PM, Tanooki said:

I'm in a process of before ebay cuts me off now. I was able to get an online bank account setup. The website is being whorish, but I reversed it through PP trying to link it to them instead, so now I'm waiting for those 2 deposits. Once that's solidified, then I intend to cut off the normal bank I had to set it up with. From there I'll flush like a few hundred bucks from PP into the online bank for ebay stuff, and take it from there. Hopefully it all works out, have a week left about to deal with it. The one I brought up, they're a work at home force it appears and they're US based, no call center, no overseas english as a second language. Guy walked me through a good bit and explained it all nearly for an hour and he's from nashville so only a few hours away.

I have stuff on ebay now, so once that cuts off, not sure what happens if I don't make the period though I should. They claim any existing will drop PP from the listing while live and cut over to the other.

Maybe I missed it, but who did you go with for the online account? That actually sounds like one of the ones I was reading about. Super friendly and helpful when trying to get you set up, but if there's actually a problem with your account the quality of service goes down quickly...

Check Yelp reviews, BBB, etc... A lot of these you don't realize are problematic until you actually have a problem, which might be months or years after you sign up...

I had listings started that were going to end after my cut off date. Everything went smoothly except for one auction that the buyer claimed eBay wouldn't process the payment for. Turns out he was trying to use a credit card to pay, and since I didn't have the new eBay system setup, it was denying the payment. Fortunately he just opted to pay with PayPal.

But I guess that's the issue, people might try to pay with a non-PayPal payment, and if you don't have eBay's new system setup they won't be able to pay you. I've also heard that eBay will accept the money, tell you to ship, then tell you they can't release the money to you until you set up Managed Payments.

It's definitely risky to let the time period pass with auctions still live, especially if you have no intention of signing up for Managed Payments.

May 12, 2021

On 5/8/2021 at 9:45 PM, Tanooki said:

They pulled that shit on me finally too, have until the 21st.

I need to figure out what to do kind of. I mean, I flatly outright refuse to give those thieves my actual bank account information. I'm going to have to setup one of those accounts with an online bank, put a few hundred in there from PP and just let that be I guess. That way if they decide to try and screw me, they won't have much to pull from as I'll keep that account nice and low, keep the funds where they exist now as an added shield against scammers.

I've never actually have had to give ebay any real good personal info like SSN, bank access, etc. They had a credit card I let expire in 2015 I never refreshed, PP really was it. It sucks, losing some good protection from scumbags because you can get PP to overturn ebays bullshit.

Is it that hard to setup a bank routing etc thing with ebay or just follow the idiot prompts type situation?

Yeah, I went through the same. Once I had an account setup, it was just pretty much 'follow the idiot prompts'. I refused to use the login to my bank provided by eBay (although that probably is the easiest and fasted way), so opted to enter data manually. They claimed they couldn't verify the account, so I had to wait a few days as they deposited two tiny amounts in the account and I had to tell them the exact amount. Now all is good...

I opted for Discover's free online checking/debit account. I was going to try one of those 'online only' banks that you've never heard of unless you are looking for an online only bank... But even though there were several that had good options, they almost all got horrible reviews when it came to costumer service. I guess they just pay a call center to handle it, so you get people that don't really know anything about banking or have any real access to the account. So I opted for the free online account, but offered by a more established banking institution... First National of Omaha was another one I saw that had a free checking account... Maybe they all do now.

Haven't actually re-started selling yet, so have to wait and see how it all works and how long it takes to get paid... That part really sucks...

May 5, 2021

The seller put the Ozzy book in 'Vintage & antique', and eBay defaults the search to the most commonly used category for the item you are searching for., at least when it chooses a category for you. (In this case, Sheet music and song books/contemporary.)

On the left side of the screen, where you see the categories, you'll see that 'Contemporary' is bold/black. If you click the 'Vintage & Antique' category, or better yet, the 'All' category at the top of the list, you will find the auction for the tab book that you linked.

Always check the category list on the left. Sometimes eBay will stuff your search into a category, sometimes it'll just search 'all'... That's why it's good to switch to all to find that item someone put in a bad category that might sell cheap...

Not sure about the Mega Man, maybe something to do with how eBay searches completed BIN auctions that accepted offers... When I search Saturn Mega Man completed listings, I don't see any 'best off accepted' listings... And there are bound to be some...

April 10, 2021

6 hours ago, Tanooki said:

I'm aware, just went the direction I did since it's an ebay topic.

Weighing my options now. I've got a year to figure it out at least. Worst case scenario I blow out anything I'm over with I have and sell like crazy this year, hoard the cash for when something I need comes along, because I'm not paying tax on goods I already paid tax on in the first place, garage sale level goods are off limits in my book. I can't afford to have my refund destroyed over their petty stunt.

Yeah, definitely the intent of this thread. I just know there are people that are just going to go ballistic because they have to pay tax on their 'eBay sales' and blame it all on eBay... Then they are in for a second rude-awakening when they discover that all their Facebook sales are also taxed (or wherever else they go).

I'm in the same situation as you... I've been lazily selling things for years, and this might just be the motivation to get a lot of my 'spare stuff' sold by the end of the year...

And making sure I have detailed records of everything for future years. You can deduct what you paid for anything you sell (and some other expenses), but if you are selling everything at a profit, that's not a total solution...

But, technically, any profit you make on sales is money you HAVEN'T paid a tax on yet, thus the whole reason for the change in the first place...

Still sucks though, makes it tediously annoying for any casual seller that might have a few hundred dollars of stuff to sell throughout the year...