Exclusive games for 8 bit computers

[Exclusive games for 8 bit computers]

38 minutes ago, Bill Loguidice said:

Not an exclusive game really, is it? It's an arcade port.

Not sure I'd call it an arcade port since there isn't an arcade game with the same levels, but it is definitely derived from Donkey Kong.

 

[Exclusive games for 8 bit computers]

On 9/26/2020 at 12:47 AM, Keatah said:

Apple II

Horizon V, Zenith, Laser Silk, Eggs-It, PentaPus, Fire & Ice, Phantoms Five, Epoch, Hadron, Retro-Ball, Space Adventure, Rings of Saturn, Saturn Navigator, Space Vikings, Pegasus ][, and so many more!

 

The games' titles may be exclusive to Apple II, as are other titles to their respective machines. But gameplay isn't always unique. A lot of these are offshoots of a concept spread wide across many machines.

Never heard of most of those.
There is a CoCo game similar to Phantoms Five called F-16 Assault, but I don't think it has the head on screen.


This is one of the best places for info on CoCo games.
There are entries for 651 games, but the maintainer said he has over 400 games he hasn't added yet.
http://www.lcurtisboyle.com/nitros9/coco_game_list.html

*edit* Not sure why the link didn't show up.

[What computer would you recommend for people who are just getting into the hobby of retro computing?]

39 minutes ago, Keatah said:

With Apple II there's so much more than the already-famous and extensive games library. Word processing was and is really practical on the system. And the instant Applesoft BASIC in ROM is good for 1st timers learning the logic of programming. Its interpreter/editor is snappy and feels like a baby PC in a roundabout way. And there's easy access to Assembly language too.

 

I also like how BASIC and DOS work together. It's like when I got the DISK II upgrade the DOS commands were seamlessly and magically integrated into BASIC. Into the whole essence of the machine. Applesoft BASIC + DOS are really well suited to the newcomer. IMHO much better than anything from Atari or Commodore. Biased? Well as a kid I got what I felt to be the most bang for the buck from the platform.

 

Getting an Apple II up and running today may be more expensive. But it will give that newcomer a nicely paced learning experience that can and will continue for years to come. Apple II is well known for supporting spontaneity. It has a vast canvas that encourages users to be creative and explore their ideas. Apple II will hold up pretty well into the future going forwards from today. It's brawny, brutish, and easy to work on. And of course very expandable.

 

 

Word processing was and is practical on most of these systems, but I wouldn't use one instead of a modern PC.
Certain machines had more professional options than others for sure, and thanks to the Apple II 80 column support, it certainly has many good options.
I'd rate the CoCo ahead of the Atari or C64 in this category, but fans of those machines will argue otherwise.  One question... why use it for that other than just to try it?
The IIe requires a RAM expansion board if you wanted to use 80 columns for word processing, but the IIGS includes enough RAM out of the box.
The IIGS also lets you use the Mac like GUI if you so desire.
I can hear "But GEOS..." from some people already.  I've tried it, there's no contest.

As I said before, Applesoft BASIC *is* an extended BASIC, though it has fewer advanced features than the CoCo, Plus/4, C128, Amstrad, etc...
There are ZERO sound commands.  Well... you can BEEP but that's it.
As far as file I/O goes, TRS-80s, Commodores, and Atari's all have it, but I'd definitely put certain computers ahead of others in how file I/O is performed.
I never cared for the way DOS 3.3 is integrated into the Applesoft interpreter, but that's just my opinion.
I've never looked at ProDOS BASIC support, so I can't say anything about that.

I'd say the learning curve is similar to other extended BASICs, and there is a GLUT of books on the machine.
This is the one area where certain machines are head, and shoulders above the rest.
Apple II, C64, and Atari have a lot of books available. 
If you want to collect books, these are the top platforms.
In spite of that, I'd only buy a handful of them for any machine because there is so much duplication.

If I wanted a computer that would might be kept going almost indefinitely, a II+ would be one of the best choices due to the lack of custom chips, and common cheap replacements of almost everything in the design.
I think the keyboard controller and ROMs would be the only possible issues with it, and you can burn new eproms.
A Franklin Ace 1000 might even be better since several upgrades such as the language card, upper and lower case, etc... are built in.
It's somewhere between the II+, and IIe in features.
Just expect to fix the foam/foil in the keyboard, and good luck finding one with a color board.
 

18 minutes ago, Keatah said:

I don't believe CFFA3000 is currently the best modern solution for Apple II, mainly because it is no longer in production, and the $600+ pricetag for the ones that show up on ebay. It had a good run of thousands of units over the last decade, two decades if you count its predecessor.

 

Other floppy emulators have to be considered like the one from BMOW. Or wDrive.

https://www.bigmessowires.com/floppy-emu/

http://kboohk.com/cart/index.php?route=product/product&path=59&product_id=55

 

I'm a big fan of ADTpro. Once setup and the workflow understood, a user can make real floppies from the tens of thousands of images available on Asimov. SuperSerialCard, serial cable, and USB serial port required, but readily available. Or a drive emulator and something like Copy II Plus would also work for making disks and images. And these same images work in PC-based emulators like AppleWin, MAME, and MicroM8. Emulators where you can use native Apple II utilities. Or if you like, use a PC-based tool like CiderPress.

 

There's really several different ways of transferring images and stuff back and forth between the PC (your portal to the web) and a vintage Apple II. And even more ways of working with and modifying disk images or making your own. Just CiderPress, AppleWin, and Copy II+, together make for a highly versatile utility set.

 

I don't know what's the exact equivalent of all this in the Atari and Commodore ecospheres, but I hear good things about the solutions available. I just know that with the Apple II there are many ways of accomplishing a task. And one of those options is bound to be appealing to a newcomer. Apple II ecosphere is like multiple puzzles whose pieces are interchangeable with each other. And depending how you put them together you can make multiple different images from the same set of pieces. All by intuition.

 

I don't care for disk options that don't allow some sort of hard drive like emulation, but that's just me. 
This is one of the reasons I suggested Unidisk support.  Non internal solutions still have to go through the floppy interface which is slow.
I mentioned the BMOW Floppy Emu btw.
There is another SD interface, and the source code, board layout, everything are provided.  But they don't have any boards for sale.  I forget what it's called.

One drive option I forgot is Reactive Micro's MicroDrive Turbo, an internal card that supports DMA, which should make it the fastest option available.
Since it uses an IDE connector, you *might* be able to use a cheap PC CF adapter that hooks to a card slot opening, though that would require some modification.
It's $75 to $95 depending on what options you order.
The one drawback, is that in doesn't emulate floppies.  The only internal hard drive / floppy drive card that supported floppy images was the CFFA 3000, and even it didn't support copy protected disks.
For that matter, I don't know if the external floppy emulators support copy protected disks, so people would have to do some research before buying.

CiderPress is excellent.  The previous version has some bugs, not sure if the latest fixed them or not.

I've had problems with AppleWin keeping consistent speed on the emulated machine, and intercepting SHIFT+PRINT SCREEN is really annoying.
Other than that, it works well.

[What computer would you recommend for people who are just getting into the hobby of retro computing?]

On 9/28/2020 at 2:23 PM, Arnuphis said:

At the end of the day you can spin permutations round and round but the best bang for your buck and best bet for an easy life will be a Commodore, Atari or Apple. It's the path of least resistance. Plus you will have access to modern solutions, technical support and the chat room won't be just you and some other guy. If you are in the UK then add ZX Spectrum to the list, maybe Amstrad. 

Apple for bang for the buck?   An Apple II system isn't going to be cheap unless you know someone.
One of the complaints about the CoCo 3 is it's expensive, yet most people are asking $200 for a regular old Apple IIe, or a "for parts" IIGS.
A lot of the IIe machines are even missing keys, so they need repairs.
Yeah there are cheaper machines, but the bidding is still underway.
One of the better B.I.N. prices I found was a IIGS for $120 + $40 shipping, and that's without a keyboard or mouse!
There is a IIGS with keyboard, mouse, drives... at $120 + $50 shipping, but that's just where the current bidding is at.
As for modern storage solutions, there are many options. 
I have a CFFA, and a CFFA 3000.  They are neat, but cheap they are not.  The last one was $140 + shipping or something like that. 
You can add a Floppy Emu to emulate an external floppy drive or hard disk (requires Unidisk support) but it's also $140 + shipping.
That's more than Commodore, Atari, or CoCo solutions by quite a bit.
The SDFloppy II is $82, but it only seems to emulate a floppy drive, and I'm not even sure it lets you organize multi-disk programs into their own directories.  The doc I downloaded on it is brief.

IF I were to recommend an Apple, I'd go with a IIe, or IIGS. 
These have the most options for upgrades, and he IIGS has all the new goodies such as new graphics modes, better sound, support for more RAM, 2.8MHz 65816 CPU, etc..
At one time there were a number of programs that didn't like the 65816 in the IIGS, but most of those have patched versions now.
It also has most of the needed I/O controllers built on the board instead of requiring cards you might have to add.
A later IIc or a IIc Plus would also be pretty good, and they also have most of the required I/O built in.
I say later IIc because of the added Unidisk support added in late 1985, and internal RAM expansion connector added in 1986. 
Later ones also reduce the number of RAM chips.  Look for a light grey colored machine for the IIc if you can.
If you buy a IIc, remember that it uses an external power supply which should be included or you'll have to buy one.
The IIc Plus is harder to come by, and will cost more, but it has a 4MHz CPU, 3.5" drive, and internal power supply.  I have one, it's a neat machine.
The drawbacks to the IIc, and IIc Plus are that it's more difficult to add upgrades, and you have fewer options.
 

[What computer would you recommend for people who are just getting into the hobby of retro computing?]

On 9/28/2020 at 1:57 PM, Bill Loguidice said:

 

To each their own, but as much as I like the Model 100/102/200, in my opinion there are too many hassles to work around and it's not something I'd ever recommend to a first-time retro computer user, especially not one with the points raised by the OP in the first post.

If you are going to make statements like this, it would help anyone wanting to get into retro computing if you would actually say what the hassles are so they can decide if it's an issue for them or not.
 

[Significance of the number 80 in computing?]

Screen width probably goes back to IBMs 80 character punch cards.
I'm guessing much of the later use was due to the 80s being 'the future' or present decade depending on when a product came out.
It was very common as part of IC or microcomputer names.
8080, 8085, 8051, Z80, TRS-80, ZX-80, and a lot of other computers with 80 in their name
If you drop the zero, you get 8 bit. 

64, 65, and 68 were used a lot as well

[What computer would you recommend for people who are just getting into the hobby of retro computing?]

The CoCo had exclusives, but it's going to be titles most people have never heard of.
It was supported mostly by small game distributors like Tom Mix Software, Spectral Associates, Mark Data Products, Computerware, Ardvark-80,  etc...
If you dig out an old Rainbow magazine, you find quite a few unique titles buried among the arcade clones, but few of them are even on the archive.

 

[What computer would you recommend for people who are just getting into the hobby of retro computing?]

10 hours ago, x=usr(1536) said:

Remember, folks: old computers are for serious business, and ONLY serious business.

Because clearly, that must have been what I mean even though I haven't mentioned that once in this thread.

[What computer would you recommend for people who are just getting into the hobby of retro computing?]

6 hours ago, Arnuphis said:

Simply put, consider the following...

 

Wasteland, Bard's Tale, Sid Meier's Pirates!, Pool of Radiance, Wizball, Zork, Last ninja, Ultima IV, Elite, Times of Lore, Commando, Skate or Die, California Games, Psi-5 Trading Company, Tau Ceti, Bubble Bobble, Maniac Mansion, Paradroid, Lode Runner, Impossible Mission, Sentinel, Airbone Ranger.   If your retro computer cannot play all of these then you chose the wrong retro computer!

If you only want to play games

[Are you impressed by the PS5 or the XSX so far?]

How can something that hasn't been released impress me?
At this point it's all marketing.

[What computer would you recommend for people who are just getting into the hobby of retro computing?]

2 hours ago, bluejay said:

@JamesD I thought you had to load the Extended Disk BASIC via disk to use those commands? How exactly do you do that in the first place?

 

Also, those commands aren't enough to justify the other drawbacks of the CoCo imho. They certainly are better than Commodore computers but Commodores just have way too much more advantages over CoCos for it to matter. Commodore BASIC 2.0 is nice and simple for beginners to learn BASIC on. Unless they plan to do relatively advanced BASIC programming I think the C64 BASIC is okay. Again, Extended Color BASIC is obviously better, but not good enough to make it better than the C64 as a computer.

There is no loading, Disk BASIC is built into the ROM on the controller, or on the CoCoSDC.  It's instantly available when you turn on the machine.
That's pretty obvious if you've ever turned one on.
Now, if you want to load OS-9, then that does require loading, but I wouldn't recommend a Unix like OS for a newb anyway.

[What computer would you recommend for people who are just getting into the hobby of retro computing?]

2 hours ago, Bill Loguidice said:

 

Let's also consider a reasonable setup. Do you get a CoCo 1, CoCo 2, or CoCo 3? And if you pick a particular one, how much memory? They range from 4K to 128K. Only the CoCo 3 has composite output unless you mod a CoCo 1/2 or get an education model (I happen to have an education CoCo 2, so it fortunately has composite, even though a CoCo 3 is my main CoCo machine). And if you have a CoCo 3, do you want to output RGB? You'll need the right cable or converter. If you want a disk drive, you're almost certainly going to want an MPI of some type. You'll then need to track down a working disk drive and controller. Etc. It can be a pretty involved process unless you're specifically motivated to explore the platform.

You can get the CoCoSDC (which I highly recommend), but it is a bit of a challenge to get working optimally unless, as you state, you use one of the pre-packaged images and related menu systems that help a lot.

On the C-64 side, you just get a C-64. No need to worry about which model or how much memory. If you want to add a disk drive, you add a disk drive that connects directly to the computer with one cable. You can easily hook the C-64 up to either a composite or S-VIDEO ready display. No other output to worry about and you're not limited to just RF like you are on most CoCo 1/2's. 

And again, there are countless multi-carts, flashcarts, flashdrives, etc., with all kinds of features on the C-64, including some with built-in fast loaders or shell commands that make accessing and working with files even easier. If you're going in fresh to vintage computing, I don't think you can do much better than a C-64 unless you have specific reasons for looking elsewhere (and there's nothing wrong with that).

Very valid points.  A composite mod for a CoCo 1/2 will set you back as much as the computer.
4K & 16K machines may not have EXTENDED COLOR BASIC, which is why I usually tell people to look for a 64K CoCo 2 if they are going for a 1 or 2.
That takes the guesswork out of whether it has EXTENDED COLOR BASIC or 64K.  64K machines have ECB
The CoCo 3 always comes with ECB, and runs games you couldn't think of doing on a CoCo 1/2.

I'm not going to dispute all the hardware options for carts for the C64.  There are a lot of them. 
As long as people remember they cost extra, that's fine.
 

[What computer would you recommend for people who are just getting into the hobby of retro computing?]

2 minutes ago, bluejay said:

I beg to differ. Although the C64 has a rather weird I/O system, so did quite a bit of computers at the time. Apple required you to type PR#X where X is the card slot your disk controller is in. The Tandy laptops required you to type in "LOAD"COM:XXXXX(XX)" Where XXXXX(XX) is the configuration for your serial port. I really have no clue what the disk commands are on the CoCo, but I'm not entirely sure if it would be much simpler than LOAD"filename",X.

Yes, the 1541 drive is slow, but I mean, it's I've yet to find a program that takes longer than 5 minutes to load from disk. It's not very fast but it isn't absolutely unacceptably slow either. And if you're playing on a cartridge, loading time is zero(but then again, the same can be said about any other system that uses cartridges.) 

 

Another drawback of the CoCo: it uses proprietary joysticks. Commodore systems use traditional Atari 2600 style connectors, and 2600 joysticks are very easy to come by. Meanwhile, color computers use those horrible analog sticks that use DIN connectors and are not compatible with any other joysticks. And they can be quite pricey if they don't come with the computer.

We aren't talking about a Tandy Laptop. 
I said all the other machines, none of which were a Tandy laptop, but for the sake of argument, lets say CoCo 2 (and I'd suggest CoCo 3 really). 
The problem here is right in your message "I really have no clue...". 
You aren't speaking from experience, and clearly, Bill doesn't know either based on his last response.

So let's see how difficult the CoCo DOS really is.
Feel free to post C64 equivalents so people can make up their own minds what is easier.
RUN"<filename>"  runs a basic program.  The drive number is optional, so yeah, it's even easier than LOAD"<filename>",X , but if you want it, just change it to RUN"<filename>:<drive #>" where drive #'s start at zero.
LOAD"<filename>"  loads a BASIC program without running it
LOADM"<filename>"  loads a machine language program, if it doesn't automatically execute, type EXEC to start the program.
DIR  displays the disk directory
KILL"<filename>"  deletes a file
RENAME"<filename>" TO "<filename>"  renames a file
COPY"<filename>" TO "<filename>"  copies a file from one to the other
PRINT FREE(<drive #>)  will show how much space is available on a disk

BACKUP <drive #>  will make a backup of a disk using one drive,  BACKUP <drive #> TO <drive #>  will backup a disk from one drive to another
DSKINI<drive #>  formats the disk in the specified drive
If you don't have an early DOS, games that are written for OS-9 can be launched simply by typing "DOS", like it will say on the disk label.
You now have a summary of the DOS commands. 
What is obvious to me is that you couldn't be bothered to learn any of that because you have little or no interest in the CoCo
no matter how much you pretend to be unbiased.
BTW, the Plus/4, and C128 have similar commands.  Why would they add similar commands if the C64 is easier?

There are several commands for dealing with sequential or random access files from BASIC, but you'd want to download the DOS manual for that since it has a lot of examples.
I hadn't used that in 35 years but I was still able to convert a program from using a huge list of data statements to using a sequential file in about a half hour.
That included making a separate program with the DATA statements to create a file, and replacing the DATA statement read routine with a disk read routine.
I spent more time looking up the syntax for OPEN, and reorganizing the rest of the code than writing the new file I/O code.
It took a little longer to convert the graphics code from Plus/4 to CoCo 3 due to some issues with the original program.
The code is on the CoCoTalk discord server in the BASIC area if you care to look. 

The CoCoSDC requires mounting a disk image if you want to control it from DOS, and there are several videos on youtube on how to use that,
however, there is also a menu system that lets you browse for the game you want to run, you simply highlight it, and hit enter. 
People have even created SD images with everything in the CoCo Archive already setup.
Some of the multi-disk games have even been modified so no disk changing is required, and it all loads off of one disk image.

Someone on Discord has also been working on converting some of the disk games to cart images.
He's written a program to extract the game from the disk, code to load it from a cart instead, and he's successfully tested it with some games.
Any un-copyprotected game up to 32K that doesn't perform disk I/O can be converted, and a lot of the CoCo games are like that.
He hasn't released anything yet, but if a multicart is more your thing, that should appear some time in the near future.
Conversely, existing cart based games can be loaded, and played from the CoCoSDC.

The CoCo will load faster than the C64 even if you use a high speed loader on the C64 because the CoCo uses a parallel disk interface.

The CoCo *does* use proprietary joysticks, and/or you have to buy an Atari joystick adapter, though Atari joysticks won't work well with all games.
But then how many people that have no experience with a classic system have Atari joysticks sitting around either?
GOOD Atari type joysticks with leaf switches aren't super cheap either, though crappier ones are a dime a dozen.
Atari joysticks aren't great for certain games either.  Good luck playing a game like 'Doubleback' without an analog stick.
There is a reason modern gaming systems use controllers with short throw analog controllers, and directional buttons.
If you already own a game console or computer that required Atari type joysticks, then using what you already have will obviously be cheaper than buying something new.
 

[Diablo-look a like possible on A8?]

On 1/22/2020 at 2:24 AM, Heaven/TQA said:

Not so much work... for first real playable version it’s more like fixing the damned soft sprite bug (ghost trash)

If I remember correctly, it was leaving the sprite data on screen under certain conditions.
It shouldn't be horrible to debug.  It would have to be in the erase code.
An erase is either getting skipped, or it's erasing the wrong location. 
The former might be due to different directional logic, collision, etc...
The latter could be due to erasing the wrong object, or the object's new location rather than the old one.
 

[Microsoft buys Bethesda]

50 minutes ago, wongojack said:

Does anyone else think that 7.5B is a bit high?  I'm thinking about the other products MS owns that are worth 7B.  Maybe something like System Center or Sharepoint?  SQL, Office and Windows are all worth double digit Billions.  Those products have existing user bases that pay them either upon upgrade or per cloud usage. However, with this purchase, I guess you are getting:

• The entire back catalog and can re-sell that or package it with GamePass
• Fallout 76 and Old Republic subscribers

 

To produce revenue on almost everything else requires more untested product to be released and sell.  And as we've observed, the talent generally drifts away over time, so there's no guarantee of producing similar products in the future.  I'd say it was a VERY good day for ZeniMax ownership.  Well done for them.

Not if it means the PS5 looses exclusives, the XBOX gains them, and more people subscribe to GamePass.
Part of the reason I said no more cheap titles from those studios is because it makes no sense to let people buy older titles cheap when you can use those titles to encourage people to subscribe to Gamepass instead.

[What computer would you recommend for people who are just getting into the hobby of retro computing?]

On 9/20/2020 at 11:34 PM, bluejay said:

If you don't have too much room to sacrifice for your retro computer, I'd actually recommend the Tandy t-series laptops(preferably the Tandy 200, but the 102 or 100 is fine as well). They're cheap, they never break, they're pretty powerful, they have a bunch of built in applications, they don't require any external storage device for permanent storage, file transfers are easy with things like mComm, they have a really nice version of BASIC built in, and to top it all of, they're cheap. Really, the only drawback is the lack of games, which is the internal LCD's limitation. I'd recommend this as a secondary computer, unless their intention is anything other than gaming, then I'd recommend this as their first retro computer.

 

For now, I've put together this:

 

<$50......TRS-80 Color Computer

<$100....Commodore 64

<$150....Commodore 64+SD2IEC/pi1541 zero

<$200....Amiga

<$250....Amiga+GOTEK

<$300....Commodore 128

>$300....Refurbished Commodore 128+Ultimate 1541 II+1571x2+1902+new power supply

 

Whattaya think?

Out of the box, the C64 has also has the most cryptic DOS system.
For a beginner, it's not very user friendly. 
The C64 really needs a fast load cart, or Jiffydos ROMs so that it loads at a decent speed, and to add a DOS "wedge" to make the machine easier to use. 
Was that included in the price of the C64, and if not, what does that cost?

All the other machines have an easier to use DOS, and faster loading out of the box.
 

[Microsoft buys Bethesda]

You can say goodbye to cheap games from those studios

[Sierra AGI Ports to the CoCo 3, Any Sound Improvement?]

The sound and speech cart doesn't allow the CPU to have direct access to the sound chip.
From BASIC it can be great since it can play music while the computer is doing other things, but it makes programming it a bit more difficult for regular music players. 
 

[What computer would you recommend for people who are just getting into the hobby of retro computing?]

9 hours ago, bluejay said:

I mean, as much as I love the CoCo, it just can't beat the c64 which is only slightly more expensive.

The question always goes back to "for what". 
The C64 certainly has a huge game library, and had an enormous amount of support.

I'm not going to post a lot of CoCo 1/2 stuff, people can find it on youtube, but I will share this.

This is a recent BASIC game:

Video Playback (one of many demos):

The CoCo 3 is more expensive, but if you can afford one, it's well worth it.
Here are some examples.
Pooyan is actually a CoCo 1/2 game patched for a different palette on the CoCo 3. 
There are several patches like this for CoCo 1/2 games

 

Now for games made specifically for the CoCo 3:

In addition to be able to run some CoCo 1/2 games with a different color palette, there are also some games that have received patches to make them run faster.
This was a test of a work in progress, but some games have been optimized with faster code.
Note that when the GIME X comes out, it also has a higher speed mode that people have also shown tests of 'Rescue on Fractalus' on

And normal CoCo 3 games (sorry for the commentary on some of them, I didn't do it)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[What computer would you recommend for people who are just getting into the hobby of retro computing?]

19 minutes ago, bluejay said:

If you don't have too much room to sacrifice for your retro computer, I'd actually recommend the Tandy t-series laptops(preferably the Tandy 200, but the 102 or 100 is fine as well). They're cheap, they never break, they're pretty powerful, they have a bunch of built in applications, they don't require any external storage device for permanent storage, file transfers are easy with things like mComm, they have a really nice version of BASIC built in, and to top it all of, they're cheap. Really, the only drawback is the lack of games, which is the internal LCD's limitation. I'd recommend this as a secondary computer, unless their intention is anything other than gaming, then I'd recommend this as their first retro computer.

 

For now, I've put together this:

 

<$50......TRS-80 Color Computer

<$100....Commodore 64

<$150....Commodore 64+SD2IEC/pi1541 zero

<$200....Amiga

<$250....Amiga+GOTEK

<$300....Commodore 128

>$300....Refurbished Commodore 128+Ultimate 1541 II+1571x2+1902+new power supply

 

Whattaya think?

The CoCoSDC is $58 if you want to add an SD drive the CoCo.  That's without the plastic case which is sold separately.

 

[Macromedia/Adobe Flash dies this year, what are your memories?]

Adobe fix something??? Ha ha ha ha ha...

 

[Computers and the videogame crash of the 80's.]

The C64's memory layout for bitmapped graphics also causes a speed penalty for 3D wire frame graphics.
 

[Computers and the videogame crash of the 80's.]

3 hours ago, potatohead said:

 

Yes, the early era was colorful and distinctive.  Fun ride!

 

I think we are headed toward another one, frankly.  Apple is moving to their own silicon.  Some big players are making custom CPU's maximized for given tasks.  ARM devices everywhere.

...

 

Funny how a company that dropped out of the computer market produced one of the most successful computer products to this day.

[Computers and the videogame crash of the 80's.]

2 hours ago, Bill Loguidice said:

... Over time, I came to understand that I can't give advice to someone based on my own biases. What's right for me (or what I love) is not right for them. ...

This pretty much sums up the responses to the recent what retro computer would you recommend...  thread. 
People giving responses based on their own biases, and what features are/were important to them.
But if you look at the responses, some people do list what they base their suggestion on. 
 

 

6 hours ago, Keatah said:

...

Herd mentality is a good thing. It promotes standards and devices that work rather trouble-free. Everyone knows how to use them. They can go about their business without babysitting the technology. I've saved tons of money once I started going with established industry standards as opposed to some whiz-bang one-off product. It's like those lightfield cameras and how they were supposed to revolutionize photography. Fast forward 10 years later and we're seeing that uber-high-tech stuff show up in devices that babies dribble drool on.

 

That's ok. Nothing wrong there. If it wasn't PC that became prevalent it would have been something else. And we'd be talking about that something else in the same style and manner.

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When it comes to the herd/standardization movement... my one complaint, is that computers hadn't had enough time to evolve before settling on "standard" machines that were supported.
I think that actually slowed development of new solutions, alternate CPUs, better operating systems, etc.. because there wasn't as much competition.
Can you imagine how much faster machines would have developed it we had waited a decade?


In spite of the fact that I used my Amiga 3000 through several generations of PCs, and I still consider the programming environment the most productive I've ever worked on, I would have been better off getting a PC because it was the chosen standard.
 

[What computer would you recommend for people who are just getting into the hobby of retro computing?]

11 hours ago, youki said:

 

I think the idea of IBM WAS to have a port of CP/M for their PC.    In addition CP/M has been release also for IBM PC in the 80's.  But was more expensive than MSDOS for almost the same thing...

 

I suggest you (and the others) looks to this very interesting video :  

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CP/M and CP/M-86 are not the same thing, and wanting CP/M-86 was about wanting an OS, not wanting CP/M applications.