Joey Kay

Donkey Kong and DKjr on the 7800 were pretty darn good ports of the arcades, a lot of people really don't give them and credit they deserve... a little late coming out, but still very worthy titles. Curt Perhaps my additions are best left to the 7800 forum, but... Agreed... A lot of the Tramiel-era games were crap on the 7800- as opposed to ALL great-playing (although at times dated) titles that were originally done by Warner - but the DK carts (along with Mario Bros.) were actually pretty good! Too bad there were so many unplayably bad titles... Cheers! Joey

Who ever said the 5200 was a flop? Were you not born yet or are you just a fanboy of another system? Relatively speaking it was a flop. I was only six or seven at the time, but all my friends who were getting "next gen" machines for xmax, birthdays, etc, were getting Colecovisions. Mind you, living in Canada, I think there was zilch for distribution of 5200's here... I never found out about the machine until 85 or 86! All the store catalogues here had 2600s and Colecovisions. Anyhow, compared with the 2600 it was an undisputable flop. If it wasn't a flop, Atari wouldn't have rushed out the 7800 less than two years later. The 5200 hardware was good enough to carry Atari further than two years, especially considering some of the later games and hardware add-ons. As for the design of the 7800, it's well documented that the Pokey wouldn't fit on the motherboard, but wasn't that because they were trying to cram the 7800 into the Sears Video Arcade II casing instead of designing a new case? I am the first to admit I know NOTHING about designing motherboards, but wouldn't it be easy to just add an extra half-inch to the size of the console, make the motherboard a bit bigger, and add on the chip? Although, my theory is blown to pieces if Pokeys only cost pennies to make. I don't know what the production cost of a Pokey chip was in 84. Any ideas??? I suspect (totally baseless speculation I might add - merely hypothesizing) that Atari may have viewed the lack of an on-board Pokey an asset as third-party games would be crippled sound-wise unless game manufacturers leased Pokey rights from Atari. Who knows... really, who cares! Just always fun to revisit the past! Cheers! Joey

Yeah... Evidence that Atari still had a lot to learn after the flop of the 5200. Why on earth would they disable their next-gen machine with sound worse than its predecessor??? And cost-wise, I don't think it makes much sense. I'm willing to bet the total run of Commando carts combined with the total run of Ballblazer carts is close to (if not greater than) the total run of 7800s. Every game could have had the potential for awesome sound (and more cheaply) if they would have shoved a POKEY in the machine... yeesh! Cheers! Joey

I remember reading quite a few years ago (online) that the first shipment made it to some stores before the brakes were put on. I don't know if that's true, but it certainly would be plausible given the release date was scheduled for July 15th, 1984 (IIRC) and I doubt Tramiel would have stopped any shipments of goods to retailers already scheduled. They needed all the cash flow they could get. Cheers! Joey

Maybe there was speculation raised in a magazine after the Sonic screen was displayed in print? Well, I have a few UK game and computer magazines from the late 80's and early 90's, and while I think it would be a terrific hardware feat, I don't doubt something was printed or speculated about it. Those UK mags (sorry to offend any Brits here) are trash-ville: 99% Gossip, 1% substance. Although I must admit, that's why I used to love reading them so much - way better than the bland crap given to us during that time! Cheers! Joey

That was the "more games at half the price" ad. The Kung-Fu Master they mentioned was the 2600 version. "...all 2600 games, like Solaris, Midnight Magic, Kung-Fu Master, Moon Patrol..." (I think that was the line)... I'm pretty sure you can find that ad online. Curt used to have it at the fabulous Atari Museum site. Haven't been to his page in a while, but it may be there! Cheers! Joey

Yeah... you're right... but I'm flaming the flashback! Not my fellow Atarians! For those who want a classic gaming experience, I would definitely recommend that generic Nintendo rip-off (I think it's called the 72,000 in one) although there is only sixty-some games on it. Obviously due to the technology inside, it does a far better job of emulating games from the past. The quality isn't the greatest, but it's a fun machine none-the-less. Cheers! Joey

Nice to see a non-flame thread on this topic. Let's be frank... according to all reviews, Atari royally screwed this unit for us classic gamers... and quite frankly, I will not consider buying this unit for my nephews for the holidays as I would hate to scar their opinions with this machine. Having said that, I don't think a market will really exist next year for this crap... the market is saturated as is. I think Atari really blew it by deciding to get into this too late. Their price-point stinks; their product stinks. There is NO EXCUSE for Atari deciding to get into it too late. They should have made a decision sooner or avoided the market altogether. An "improved" Atari product next year will be too late. Overall, will it hurt Atari? Probably not, as Atari gamers today could care less about these retro games... they're a niche. Is it disappointing to us classic gamers? Of course. But really: Boo for the Flashback!!! Atari could have done better. Cheers! Joey

I agree about the market being a bit saturated with all these retro units. I don't remember what store I was in (probably a Target) but they had what must have been 10 feet of floor space dedicated top to bottom with these units, in all shapes and sizes from several different manufacturers. I think what's going to happen is that these will collectively not sell as well as they need to to keep all these companies happy, and that next year there will be a downsizing of sorts. Of course, I could be wrong and these items may sell like hotcakes this holiday season, which means we'd see even more of them next year. ..Al Wouldn't it be a deliciously ironic situation if Atari ended up getting millions of these units shipped back to them because they ended up overestimating the market and overshipping a craptacular product... Why didn't they just call this machine "E.T. 2004" Cheers! Joey

That is a very good point. Atari screwed the 5200 release royally. There was an interesting debate on the 7800 forum regarding this. For those who have not read it: http://www.atariage.com/forums/viewtopic.p...der=asc&start=0 Cheers! Joey

Ha! I was just thinking the same thing last night after reading an old review for this game for the C64 (I think). My first reaction was - yuck! What a bunch of icky men... I think the game box looks like the cover of an all-male porno from 1984. Cheers! Joey

Interesting! Baseless speculation time: As we agreed, the timeframe for the Mirai unit (judging from the look) lands it somewhere in the same timeframe that the Genesis would have been under development. After the ST, before the Lynx. Therefore, is it possible that Atari and Sega realized that teaming up against Nintendo may be their best possibility rather than splintering the market between two major competitors? Does the cart slot/general size for the Mirai resemble anything close to a Genesis? Uber-speculation, obviously, that even if the slots or console size are similar means that they were the same. If Sega came into talks late with Atari (late 88, early 89), obviously their hands would be full with Lynx and Atari would have known that they didn't have the resources to debut two machines. If this is the case, then... More likely, Mirai would have been a mock-up for some 16-bit ST based hardware. There was never a shortage of speculation in game press that a 16-bit Atari console would be based on ST architecture. Does anyone know how to get a hold of John Skruch? If anyone would know about this, it would be him. Best Joey

I know I read that AGES ago, too... So, what connections can be found between the Mirai mock-up and a Genesis? Cheers! Joey

David... you snuck that post in on me while I was writing my last one... Actually, as that mock-up shot shows you're not wrong with the Rampage title. I wish we had an accurate timeline - here's what we do know about this: 1) Rampage was "Monster Demolotion" but by the time the Lynx was reviewed in mainstream publications it was "Rampage" 2) Electrocop and Gauntlet were re-named by the time mainstream mags reviewed the machine. I guess we don't know for sure about Gates of Zendecon... All I can say with certainty is that there was a name-change in the mainstream press for Electrocop and Gauntlet... thus, back to my original half-baked theory of an information pass-along screw-up. Cheers! Joey

From the "gaming gossip" section of the Nov. 1989 EGM: "...The Atari Lynx is getting itself well-equipped with titles. Atari has nabbed the license to Gauntlet 3 for their Gem Quest game, and Rampage Deluxe for Monster Demolition. Impossible Mission, an Epyx classic, has been retitled Electrocop!..." And here's an interesting tidbit... Rampage, while announced as Rampage in both magazine articles, has a twist. In the Oct. 89 VC&CE there's a screen shot of some hands holding the Lynx (most certainly a promo shot from Atari) that has a mock-up title screen of Rampage, but it says "Monster Demolition". Cheers! Joey as a footnote - I'm really enjoying this thread!

Found it... October 1989 Video Games and Computer Entertainment and the September 1989 EGM both have the six original Lynx titles featured in their debut Lynx article and at Summer '89 CES. Rampage was and is Rampage, as is Gates of Zendocon, Blue Lightning, and California Games. The other two original titles are first called "Time Quests and Treasure Chests" which later becomes Gauntlet, and "Impossible Mission" which later becomes Electrocop. I know it's a corny connection - but there could be something to my mix-up theory combined with this title-change flip-flop. Cheers! Joey

I too was a 7800 maniac in the day... and still am! Anyhow... GATO (along with Skyfox) was announced with the Tramiel debut of the 7800. If you check out the Atari video clip from 86 CES, the original debut ad for the 7800 (More games at half the price) mentions Skyfox and GATO. The version of the ad that made it to air, however, has Ballblazer and (I think) One on One Basketball replacing those two carts. Skyfox also appears in the Atari Video Game Catalogue (1987). Either a mock-up shot or a C64 screen shot. Personally, I doubt coding ever began on that title. Excluding consideration of all other evidence (I can't stress enough I'm not "attacking" any other theories - just throwing out other possibilities), I can't believe a game was already in a nearly complete playable state and not announced. Here's another loop to think about --- correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't those two games (Electrocop and Gauntlet) the only Lynx initial release games whose titles were changed - wasn't Electrocop "Impossible Mission" IIRC and Gauntlet was some sort of "Dungeon" type-name. I'd have to check my old mags to find out the exact original titles. Could this be a factor in the "mistaken identity" theory? Cheers! Joey Cheers! Joey

My scanner doesn't work with WIndows XP on my new computer --- I can scan it next time I visit dad - could be a couple of weeks, but I'll get it for you! And perhaps I should clarify - Midi Maze is for the XE Best Joey

I've got the Canadian lists from '88 until when Atari closed shop in Canada. White Water Madness is listed, as is MidiMaze, but no Electrocop or Gauntlet! Cheers! Joey

This could be exciting... certainly can't be any worse than the Waterworld fiasco a few years ago... who was that boob, anyway??? Cheers! Joey

And I still want to believe!!! Let's hope those hard drives provide the evidence!!! Cheers! Joey

I'm glad I'm not alone on this - although DracisBac has some interesting and compelling evidence that I certainly can't deny... I guess where I really get stuck with this is that I cannot find on any of my official Atari product listings (which I got all the time during my obsessive late 80's/early 90's Atari heyday) a listing for Electrocop or Gauntlet as "new" or "coming soon". To me, it still seems that the Tramiel philosophy of announcing everything uber-early to move stock prices would only seem logical with name-brand games like this... if Electrocop was fully playable (unlike Pit Fighter), why was it not even announced some time between 1989 and 1990 on the Atari games list sent to consumers? However, consider this: As these are both Lynx games, perhaps Atari forged ahead with these games for the 7800 after aquiring the Lynx from Epyx, but then found out that they didn't have proper console license and didn't want to pay for it - thus the projects were deleted from the hard drives. Or perhaps they said they were going to forge ahead, realized the costs, and axed it before coding began. I don't really know. All speculation - but really, no conclusive evidence. Interesting debate on this thread, none the less. Cheers! Joey

Looks like I stand corrected! Cheers! Joey

Although I might add that I will be ECSTATIC if somebody definitively proves me wrong and coughs up the proto! Cheers! Joey