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toymailman

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Posts posted by toymailman

  3. Posted

    I have updated the results table on the first post in this thread.

     

    I have finished Activision Game #1 vs. Atari Game #6. Atari seemed to win easily regardless of who went first so I only did the first two matches. I then pitted Game 1 vs. Game 7 and Atari dominated the first match. It may be time to move to Activision game #2.

    • Like 1

  7. Posted

    I have six items up ending tomorrow. A popular one seems to be the late release international box set. I am not into label/box variations (no room!) so I try to only have the most original version in my collection. The extras have to go.

     

    http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZtoymailmanQQhtZ-1

     

    I may not have anything up this coming week as I have been busy playing checkers (sorta) and haven't had the time to take pictures and list stuff. I have been pitting Atari Video Checkers against Activision's Checkers game in head-to-head battles testing each difficulty level. It is interesting and kinda fun. I have been posting/updating the results in a thread here in the "Atari 2600" section.

     

    Next week I am hoping to have more stuff up.

     

    Thank you for looking! :)

  10. Posted

    I think I see what's going on here.

     

    The Atari program has as its command to try to get jumps and chain jumps when it has the advantage, to calculate piece-loss vs. opponent piece-loss for every move.

    The Activision program, on the other hand, has protecting the pieces as its priority, even when it has the advantage. Thus, when it has an overwhelming amount of kings, it still won't risk them against a potential chain-jumping king controlled by the opponent.

    In short, the Atari program is the more aggresive of the two programs. I suspect that the Activision program more or less blunders into its victories, that Atari makes a risk calculation based on its opponent and Activision is smart enough to make the most of any opportunity granted it by its opponent.

     

    You are probably right. This makes sense with what I have observed. It will be interesting when I change to Game #2 of Activision (Intermediate) to see if its strategy changes much.

    • Like 1

  12. Posted

    I was able to complete another match tonight and start the next one. The Activision Game1 vs. Atari Game4 was a surprise. After Atari seemed to easily win with Game3 regardless of who went first I thought this would be over before it began. I played four games. Twice Atari went first and twice Activision went first.

     

    When Atari went first, it won. Not to big of an advantage, but won nevertheless. However, when Activision went first then it was able to maintain the advantage. In one game it ended up with 4 kings to Atari's lone king. However, for some reason it never did anything about it. It just kept moving the kings around and never tried to finish Atari off. Because of this huge advantage I quit after 30 minutes and called it a win for Activision, but very stange. The other time Activision went first, it did not press any advantage again. The game ended up with 5 kings for Activision and 4 for Atari. Each side just moved their kings around and I quit after 40 minutes and called this a draw.

     

    I gave the edge to Atari in this match (G1 vs. G4), but almost wanted to call it a draw. Atari seems to finish off its opponents and actually try to win, although in each game it won it was by a very slim margin and it had to go first. When Atari did not go first then it could not win at this level. Activision was even able to build a large advantage to make a win easy, ... but then didn't. :ponder:

     

    I read somewhere in the Atari manual that it changes its strategy beginning with Game #4. It is making some additional checks and trying to control certain aspects of the game and locations on the board to make it a more challenging opponent. However, this doen't appear to be the case in practice. At least with this initial level.

     

    I have attached the updated table below.

     

    post-10944-1176355499_thumb.jpg

     

    I finished the first round of the next match (G1 vs. G5). Atari went first and it won. It will be interesting to see what happens tomorrow when Activision goes first at this level. At some point I am expecting Atari to dominate the Novice Activision game, and not win by such slim margins or play to a draw.

    • Like 1

  13. Posted

    Yeah, that would be interesting to have one console vs. another. As for within the Atari 2600, I think checkers is the only game that a head-to-head competition is possible.

     

    I did the first three matches on the list I put up earlier and the results were somewhat suprising. Atari is performing better and taking less time than Activision while doing it. I also figured out how to have Activision go first. It works the same as Atari where you toggle the right difficulty switch. I don't remember reading this in the manual, but maybe I missed it.

     

    I did a best 2 out of 3 match. First game Atari goes first. Second game Activision goes first. Third game, if needed, the "weaker" player goes first. The initial results are below.

     

    post-10944-1176271558_thumb.jpg

     

    I give the first round (G1 vs. G1) to Activision with 2 wins and a draw. The draw could have been won by Activision, but it made some really bonehead moves in the end.

     

    The second round (G1 vs. G2) could go either way. The table shows Atari, but it did go first twice as it seemed to be the weaker player going into the third match. For all intents and purposes these difficulty levels seem to be on par.

     

    The third round (G1 vs. G3) was Atari all the way. It won both matches regardless of who went first and seemed to hold an advantage throughout. It also took less time for each move.

     

    On average the time per move estimates from the manual were pretty good. So, in these initial matches the Atari game is not taking much time while Activision is using the 5-15 seconds specified. Also, it doesn't seem to be the same game twice.

     

    I will continue the experiment tomorrow with G1 vs. G4. I expect Atari to win easily and if so then won't bother with the rest of the top portion of the chart. Instead I will advance the Activision difficulty to G2 and see how far it can get before Atari prevails. Any predictions? My initial predictions were way off.

     

    After playing these games all evening, I do like the look and feel (control) of the Activision game much better. However, the Atari is proving itself to be the stronger opponent; so far.

    • Like 1

  14. Posted

    I have attached a table below that summarizes what I am about to do. It has my predictions as to "who" will win each match and I have left question marks for matches that may prove very interesting. It is all based on the estimated length of time per move quoted in each of the game manuals. It will be a good test to see what company coded better logic.

     

    post-10944-1176255799_thumb.jpg

     

    I will start this experiment tonight!

    • Like 1

  15. Posted

    Yes, these keep coming up fairly often. I picked up sealed Motorodeo, Ikari Warriors and Xenophobe in a bundle for $150 about 6 months ago. Seemed like a great deal then, but now there seems to be so many readily available.

     

    This is compared to lower rarity games that I have NEVER seen come up for sale CIB; and that I NEED!!! Subterranea, Up & Down, Universal Chaos, Stargunner, & Picnic are all high on my wish list. They are the last items I need to complete their respective sets.

  17. Posted

    Gosh, I spent hours playing the Atari version. I sometimes had to give up because it would chase my last king around and could never catch me. :P

     

    I'll be interested to see the final results. But I wonder if one game will definitively prove that one is better (smarter) than the other? Maybe a best 2 of 3 is in order?

     

    I will definitely post the results as I get them. Starting from the easiest vs. easiest setting and going up from there to see how it mixes up. The emulator idea sounds good too when I get to the hardest level for Atari (Game #9). I will also do at least the best 2 out of 3 or maybe 3 out of 5 if it goes quick.

     

    Are there other games this can be done with? Any other versions of Chess, Othello, etc. besides the Atari versions to play one versus the other? I have about 350 boxed games in my collection now and at first glance nothing popped out besides checkers.

    • Like 1

  18. Posted

    Yes, I would agree. The Activision game is better from a users standpoint.

     

    However, this battle was not to see which is better from that point of view. What I did was actually play them against each other. Literally Atari vs. Activision in a battle of wits!!

     

    The Atari version actually made this possible because you can let the computer go first with the proper difficulty switch setting. So no move on the board for either side has to be made by a human player.

     

    The battle went on until midnight and I went to sleep. I'll try it again later when I can dedicate many hours to it. Maybe I'll try the easier settings first because then each move will only take a few seconds instead of 20-30 minutes!!

    • Like 1

  19. Posted · Edited by toymailman

    Anybody ever done this before? I am playing Atari's Video Checkers against Activision's Checkers games to see which is better. I am using the highest difficulty setting on each version. However, the Atari can take a loooooooooooooooong time.

     

    The match began about 8:00 PM this evening and is still going strong at almost 11:00 PM. Not the most exciting thing, but I was curious.

     

    On a side note, the Atari seems to have a small flaw in its logic. I have noticed that some moves only had one option, to jump. But the Atari game still "thinks" for over 10 minutes about what it should do. Activision doesn't seem to have this problem.

     

    I may have to start this match over some other time. I have to work tomorrow. :(

     

    Hey, I just saw the "Edit" button on my first post in this thread. I really should've taken a forums class before I started posting. Better late than never, eh? I will update results on this first post so it is easier to find.

     

    The updated table (with color!) is below.

    post-10944-1177648088_thumb.jpg

     

    I have also taken a picture of the test setup.

    post-10944-1176958317_thumb.jpg

    • Like 3

  20. Posted

    I agree with the jitter on the newer paddles. I have three pairs of original paddles, 2 Atari and 1 Sears. All of them work well with extremely little or no jitter at all. About half of the newer paddle sets I have aquired had so much jitter that they were unusable.

  21. Posted

    I have taken these apart to cleam them as well. The ribbon reattaches to the board and stays because it is a snug fit in there. When the case is resealed up (with the screws) there is nothing that can really jar it loose. Also, when the case is resealed the ribbon seems to get squooshed in there and held in place by this pressure as well.

  24. Posted

    Thanks for the advice, I was able to pop apart the grey box and cleaned out the inside really good. It appears the grease that is used to make turning the controller easier got all over the place. Covered the contacts and about everything else inside there. Once that was all cleaned off the controller works better than new now. The control and precision is amazing!

     

    I'll have to go through all my driving controllers.

     

    Here is what the grey box looked like before I popped it open.

    post-10944-1175277842_thumb.jpg

     

    Here is my new best at INDY 500 Devil's Elbow on setting A (fast speed) thanks to the new controller!

    Over 12-1/2 laps! This is good for me.

    post-10944-1175277819_thumb.jpg

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