CV Gus
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Posts posted by CV Gus
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I do know for a fact that the CV sold 6 millions unitsYou personally counted them?
(By your logic, how can you believe any figure you didn't count, like the number of people killed in WW1? The number of people on the Titanic? Or any other historical figure?)
Evil laugh...
3-6 million was the number usually reported in the mid-1980s.
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My high score in Pac-Man Plus is 193,850 so far.
As for the other two, well...I can usually reach the fourth mazes in Ms. Pac-Man.
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Given enough memory, the CV was capable of some pretty impressive games. But could this have been done on a CV, with bank switching?
It probably would be GREAT with a combination of this and a "Lord of the Dungeon" type mini-maze games mixed in.
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Any chance of adapting a paddle controller and using the Wico y cable?
What do you mean by this? Do you mean Atari 2600 paddles?
Building an adapter to use 2600 paddle controllers on a 5200 is not difficult. But I've never seen that Y-cable, I'm afraid.
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Even if it was possible, from a business point of view, Nolan would have trouble.
First of all, who owns the rights to the arcade games now?
Secondly, the name Nolan Bushnell only matters to older gamers, for the most part. Younger gamers were raised in the era of Japanese systems. Atari has had such a bad reputation for so long, its name, except for nostalgia, is poison.
In order for "Atari 2010" to get anywhere, he'd have to get the rights to games from companies that aren't eager to sell, and offer something none of the current systems can offer- and what, barring ultra-expensive and exotic control schemes, would that be? It would make the effort Nintendo put into selling the NES here back in 1985 look like nothing by comparison.
I don't think it'll happen. It should be mentioned that Bushnell was actually not a very good businessman.
If he was a realist, he might try a third-party company, and try to release games for various systems- including older ones?- that are not as well known, but might catch on. Snap Jack. Drol. Astro Fighter. Pleiades. etc. Those games aren't making much money now, so whoever owns the rights might want to give it a shot. But a new system, in today's circumstances? Get out the shovels; a funeral's a`comin'.
Now, if Jeff Minter tried...
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Is there a Pac-Man Plus for the 5200?
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Here's a "practical" comparison:
GRAPHICS: This has been debated for years, and the only possible answer is this: it depends on what you want to do.
Comparing the CV and 5200 is not like comparing a Vic-20 and a C-64; the way they present on-screen images is just too different. Old 5200 ads used to boast how the 5200 had 256 colors and 25% better resolution!...because they knew back in those days most people were unaware that it was not that simple. The 5200 had several modes, and if you used the 200X320 mode, you were stuck with black and white. To access those colors, you were stuck using a lower resolution. This is why the CV Mr. Do!'s Castle looks so much better, even with 16 colors.
As far as scrolling goes, it's dead even if you are talking about Defender, Galaga, or Nova Blast...but, if you are talking about Zaxxon, then the 5200 is the clear winner here. The CV can do much more than most realize, but it takes lotsa work and more resources; with the 5200, it's much easier. The single biggest problem with the CV is the 2 colors/line/space rule, and if you try to scroll Zaxxon smoothly, you will violate this rule. Thus, you must settle for less colors overall. It can probably handle a better Desert Falcon than Zaxxon. A 5200 Desert Falcon would have been interesting.
A CV Qix would be interesting, too. Likely, each "dot" or move would have to be 4 pixels wide, so as not to violate the 2 color/line/space rule. It would look very good, but the 5200 may have an advantage here.
A CV can smoothly scroll Bump `N Jump and Sky Jaguar, but horizontally-scrolling games cannot have the same detail. Again, what do you want to do?
As for other things, it's hard to say. 5200 Pac-Man has single-colored characters with smooth motion and no flickering, but Ms. Pac-Man is choppier and has some flickering. CV Burgertime has dreadful flickering at times, but had Opcode programmed it, it would have been much better. Look at Pac-Man Collection.
Both systems have one thing in common: neither ever had its fullest abilities used. Overall, CV games looked better, but other times it was the other way: look at Gyruss, Frogger, and Centipede (although the latter could have looked much better for the CV.)
It is interesting to note that Atarisoft's Galaxian, Pac-Man, Joust, and Dig Dug looked better for the CV. Why?
So- Too many differences; it's like comparing cars to televisions. The CV can handle some games better; the 5200 others. Some would be the same.
SOUND: Usually, this is given to the CV. However, the voice synthesis, even though more limited than the arcade, reduces this to almost nothing- it makes Berzerk just so very good. The CV may be better elsewhere, but you'll notice the sound is overall is higher-pitched. For their time, quite frankly, it's dead even. Both did well.
GAMES: Ah, here it comes; it's always down to this. Problem is, this is purely a matter of preference. Both systems had fine versions of many games: Berzerk, Centipede, Defender, Qix, Pengo, Ms. Pac-Man, Super Breakout, Robotron: 2084 for the 5200; Ladybug, Frenzy, Spy Hunter, Gateway to Apshai, Venture, Space Panic, Bump `N Jump, Slither for the CV. A number of games for both (e.g. Q*Bert). You decide, although Atari deciding to make superior versions of several popular games (like Joust) is telling. What Super Pac-Man and Tempest would have done for the 5200! What Wizard of Wor and Tunnels and Trolls would have done for the CV!
No winners, although the CV had the edge in sheer numbers. It also had the edge with maze games, RPGs, too. The 5200 wins out with first-person shooters, like Star Raiders, and it had ultra-popular games like Pac-Man. Again, no call possible.
HOMEBREWS: The CV has greater numbers and variety. It also has notable "rediscovered" games like Steamroller and Lord of the Dungeon. Still, there is Super Pac-Man (my favorite of the four) and Millipede for the 5200, and homebrewers are picking up some steam for it, like Warlords (more on that in a bit...). So come on, 5200 fans, get those homebrews going!!!
SALES: The CV, which is why they're easier to find "in the wild" than 5200s. In the Internet age, though, this no longer matters; both are available. Sales numbers also do not reflect superiority (or the lack of it), or the SMS would have exceeded the NES.
LOOKS: Are you serious? Oh, all right: the 5200 is easier to dust off, but is so damn ginormous, it's tougher to stash. I prefer the CV, although if I had to choose which to bonk a prowler over the head with, the 5200 wins out. It can also stash a beer.
PROCESSING SPEED: This seems to depend on what you want to do. AGH has implied that the CV is twice as fast, but the 5200 can carry twice as much. Problem is, this is only a factor with games that have it as a factor; it doesn't matter that the CV doesn't have built-in scrolling for games like Ladybug. So in some cases, the CV; others, the 5200; overall, too close to call. Both do well.
CONTROLS: Ha, the one area I'm skilled at! C`mon, folks, there is no debate here, it's the CV. The single biggest strike against the 5200 were those awful controllers, and with good reason. The CV ones were not exactly the best, but the fact is most games were digital-controlled, and the CV's were digital. This alone wins it. The 5200 controllers are awkward, too difficult to make quick, precise moves with, and are tough to repair, as well as being more easily broken. Video game magazines were in universal agreement on this one. It was only with my digital 5200 controller that I managed to break 21,000 in Berzerk, and only with my paddle controller that I finished games of Super Breakout. Except for Pole Position and Missile Command, the 5200 controllers stink.
The fact that the CV uses the common 9-pin set-up allows the use of many other controllers, including the 7800 controllers (which work fine!). With a simple y-plug, you can use such a controller and still have access to the keypad; the CV also allows game selection and start-up with controller #2; with the 5200, it is only controller #1. I can go the the nearby second-hand shop RIGHT NOW and, for 2 dollars, pick up a 9-pin joystick.
The Trak/Roller Controllers are about the same in themselves, although the CV one is more versatile and allows you to plug the controllers into it.
So- the CV, by a long shot...within their existing spheres....
BUT!!...
What about more exotic controllers?
Here, it depends.
Unlike the 2600, which has both analog AND digital controls, the CV and 5200 only have one: the CV, digital; the 5200, analog.
If you want to build a 5200 controller, it will be difficult. Easy to draw, but to actually BUILD it, well! A CV controller is much easier to build.
But exotic ones?
Trust me on this- it is easier to convert analog to digital than digital to analog!
So- for exotic controllers, it's the 5200 that wins out. By quite a bit!
I have built a digital controller for the 5200. I have built a paddle controller for it, and a light gun, too!
But to build those last two for a CV? Much, MUCH trickier.
A paddle controller, for games like Pole Position and Super Breakout, is easy. Each 5200 controller is actually two tiny paddles inside; one for vertical, one for horizontal.
The fact that each has two opens up some fascinating possibilities! For example, say someone wanted to program a four-player version of a racing game (Super Sprint?) for the 5200. He asks me if I can build something so he can do it for both the 4 AND 2 port 5200s. My reply? "No problem."
Since each controller uses two tiny paddles (potentiometers), even a 2-port 5200 would, in effect, have 2600-like ability to handle four paddles. You could easily use 2600 paddle controllers if you wanted; an adapter to allow use of 2600 paddles on a 5200 is incredibly easy to build! One would be the "master" adapter (it would have a keypad and those 3 buttons), while the other would just allow use of the paddles, so it's even easier than you'd think. In fact, the 5200 could even allow EIGHT-player games if it was a 4-port model.
Now, if that same programmer asked me for something for the CV, that would be a problem. There is almost no practical way to adapt 2600 paddles for a system that cannot read analog at all. The Roller Controller uses both ports for the four-direction movement, so, in effect, each can handle one "paddle," which would have to work in a way like the spinners on a Super Action Controller, and building a good quality one is not easy. Practically speaking, 2-player games would be the limit here.
A possibility would be a game programmed to read quick directional signals, one after another. For example:
*(UP CONTACT)-(RIGHT CONTACT)*
When you turn the dial to the right, you activate (much like a SAC spinner) the UP switch, and immediately after the RIGHT. This tells the game to turn the car a bit, or move the paddle a bit to the right, etc. Move it the other way, and it's RIGHT and then UP, so move a bit to the left, etc. For the second player, you'd use the LEFT and DOWN switches. In this way, four-player games may be possible, but the controllers would be awkward to build, and would only work for those particular games. It may be possible to install a switch to they could also work on Turbo, Bump `N Jump, etc., but the 5200 is much easier.
As for light guns: just as the NES and the old 1970's pre-programmables, a light gun usually worked by first blacking out the screen, and then replacing a target with a white block. If the game detected a difference, then you were pointing the gun at the target, and it registers a hit. It used a photoresistor, as a rule. Not too hard.
But a CV cannot read any difference in resistance. Therefore, you have to use something that will eithr activate or do nothing; no in-between. With a 5200, there only has to be a difference between two readings; with a CV, only on or off will do. It's much trickier to build, believe me (even an op-amp has limits). Incidently, this assumes you do not want to use a battery, or some such thing.
So for exotic controllers, the 5200 wins out!
So there you have it, a regular guy's guide to the CV and 5200. In 2009, just get them together, and play some Duran Duran, enjoy some Jolt!, Berzerk, Qix, Pengo, Ladybug, Spy Hunter, Fortune Builder, CV Pac-Man Plus, and Robotron: 2084. You'll be glad you did.
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The biggest problem with the "glut" theory is that it assumes two things:
1) There were simply too many games out there for the market to support (good or bad games);
2) And this is the key here, very important, central to it all...
That consumers will evenly spread their money out among all games.
And that's where the glut theory falls flat on its face, friends. If it worked that way, then every business in America would have died out decades ago.
It assumes that we were so stupid, that we didn't know a good game from a bad one. Thus, we spread our disposable income out among all of these games, no matter how bad, and thus, NOBODY made a profit. In other words, Generation X was hopelessly stupid.
But come on, already. Even in the pre-Internet age, how many bad movies, bad songs, bad television shows, and bad (whatever) were out there? Especially in the 1980s, when the VCR came into its own, did movie theaters go out of business? Did television? Did the music industry crash? No.
So what made the 1980s video game industry so different that a glut would cause it to crash? I myself much preferred 2600 Robot Tank or CV Burgertime over Slurpy (CV), I Want My Mommy or Dishaster (2600), and spent my money accordingly. Coleco and Activision got it, not those others. As it usually was. Sure, SOME companies, esp. those with crummy games, would go out of business, but that's how a free market is supposed to work, isn't it? It doesn't mean EVERYONE is going down.
If, however, decisions are made without input from the customers, then you're shooting in the dark. Scott Adams described this sort of thing (...if you're talking ABOUT customers instead of to them) as a "one-off activity."
What happened was a case of the prophesy fufulling itself.
Luckily, thanks to the homebrewers, those old systems have another shot. Thanks to you all.
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Unlike you recently?
Comment: I think that if the Jaguar was marketed better it would have been a sucsess, it had a lot more potential then say the 5200 and Atari XEGS.
Your Reply: "The Jaguar was the most marketed of any of the Tramiel era systems. To give them some credit, they actually listened to customers and the market and fixed a lot of the issues that had plagued the 7800, XEGS and Lynx. They
- Spent far more money on advertising
- They aggressively recruited third party developers
- They tried to get big name licenses (ie. Alien vs. Predator, NBA Jam, Myst etc)
- They sent review copies of games to the press
- They pushed additional customer support items like the toll-free number, the Jaguar help line, the Jaguar tips book etc.
The Jaguar was really sunk by a few key things
- The system was really hard to develop for
- Games that pushed the system (see above) were few and far between
- Due to above, they didn't make the most of the window they had before the Saturn and Playstation arrived. (Most Jaguar games arrived after they were in the marketplace)
- Atari had a historically tarnished reputation"
And of course, someone who makes 5200 paddle and digital controllers, 2600-5200 console converter/adapter modules, and asks where to get 15-pin plugs to fully repair his own 5200- that he spent hours getting working- AND posts the plans and text explanations for these sort of things, hates 5200s and thinks 5200 owners are full of it, right?
Fact is, the CV did do better than the 5200. Even if one assumes the 5200 was superior (which isn't likely), then so what? The SMS was superior to the NES, but which held 80-90% of the market?
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The single biggest factor that caused the crash (actually, suicide) of the industry back then was marketing "experts," and the fatheads that belived them.
If you were around back then, don't you remember ALWAYS hearing back in 1983 and 1984 that...
"VIDEO GAMING IS DEAD, THE FUTURE IS IN COMPUTING!!!!"
This is THE reason why Coleco decided on that stupid ADAM computer. This is why the industry gave up on video gaming- after all, "everyone" knew that it was over.
Well, here we are, in 2009. Playstation 3. X-Box 360. Generation after generation, 16-bit, 32-bit, whatever-now-bit. 26 years.
This was straight out of "Dilbert." Rather than asking the CUSTOMERS (in this case, "Generation X"), they asked each other. And big surprise- they got it wrong again. Nintendo, on the other hand, DID ask the customers, which is why they gambled on the NES in America. They played the capatalist game right, and grew rich, so, of course, the American government harrassed them, right up to their decision being made on December 7th.
It was not a crash, it was stupidity and suicide. And they still won't admit that they were wrong.
As for a glut- look at how many consoles were available in the mid and late-1990s, and the fact that foreign games (Japan) were more readily available, AND that super-factor that did not count in the 1980s- the Internet. Yet, gaming is still around. So it was not the glut, or it would have happened again in the 1990s.
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Overall, if you consider everything in 2009, the CV wins out.
For Homebrewing, the CV has the most games, and a good variety. Pac-Man Collection is one of the best. Likewise, the rediscovered games, like Lord of the Dungeon and Steamroller.
Since the CV uses the standard 9-pin plug, controllers are easy to find. And with a simple y-plug, you can use the keypad, too. Or just use the second controller to select a game.
There are more of them "out in the wild."
It has many more games.
And a better control scheme.
But still, the 5200 has winners, too. There's just something about it that seems "brighter" than the 7800 or Jaguar. And games like Pengo, Robotron: 2084, Blueprint, Space Dungeon, Berzerd, Defender, Qix, and Super Breakout (if you have a paddle controller!) are just so good. So it's not by that much.
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I've noticed that in the 5200 version, the first and third mazes have pretty much the same coloring, as do the second and fourth.
Why is this?
Even so, I still like it somewhat better than the 7800 version, for some reason.
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I honestly don't think I'll bother. I have tried fixing many game consoles in the past and it has always ended in disaster. I wouldn't mind shipping it to someone for repair who's experienced doing these things, but not myself. That does propose a problem, though. I don't know anyone who'd be willing to do that.If that turns out not to be an option, I'm probably going to sell it along with my collection of 7800 games.
But this is actually a pretty easy repair. Just make sure you get one of those little "solder vacs" that suck up melted solder, so you can effectively remove the solder from the 9-pin you want to remove. Removal is the tricky part, and even if you break a "ring" on the circuit board, a thin wire will fix the works nicely.
Also, make sure your soldering iron has one of those thin tips, a good one.
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Ah HAH I think we have found the problem. Easy fix?
Yup, pin 5, right fire button input.
Have to open it up, desolder and remove the old DB9 socket and install a good one it's it's place.
Not sure where the cheapest and easiest place would be to get a replacement. I usually take them off dead atari & cbm equipment myself. I guess the easiest and free thing to do for now would be to swap the sockets between player 1 and player 2 till you get a replacement.
I would simply wait until you find a replacement. The less you do with electronic equipment, the better.
Couldn't you simply, if you want use of both buttons, play the two-player game option as player 2? It's awkward, but it should do until you can get the replacement.
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Normally, when playing Xevious, having the difficulty switch flipped one way will make either button fire AND drop bombs; the other position, one fires the lasers, the other drops bombs. For some reason (maybe the cheap way they were printed), this option is not listed in the instructions.
If, if I understand you correctly, when the switch is in the position so each button does one thing, one of them does not work, then try the controller with another game, and see if both work.
If not, it is a controller problem.
(When you say it doesn't work, do you mean it doesn't do anything at all, period? Or that it does work if you have the switch set to the one button drops bombs and shoots setting?) Be a bit more specific.
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Just today, at a garage sale, was a complete Genesis set (minus the CD and 32X), with a number of games. All for...
$10.00!
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Where can one get those 15-Pin ports for an Atari 5200? Mine just has one, so Robotron: 2084 and Space Dungeon are tough to properly play.
Thanks.
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Funny thing- after all of these years, I still have that issue. Interesting, but not too well written- they mention Desert Falcon, but don't even picture it?
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I just got Defender for the 5200 today. Wow - what the heck was Atari thinkin'? This version sux, but not as bad as the 2600 garbage they released. In fact, Stargate for the 2600 is better than the 5200 version of Defender.Colecovision's Defender is the best of the bunch.
I'm shocked that I seem to be the only one who really enjoys 5200 Defender and thinks the CV version is dumbed down.
I'm curious what it is about the 5200 version that turns you off?
You're not the only one. The CV version was not good. The 5200 version was.
Those of you who weren't around or paying attention in the early 80's, don't think that Atari was really banking on Super Breakout. It didn't take too long before Pac-man was the free pack-in and that's when I got my 5200.
True- but it was too late. The first few months back then were crucial; the CV had a head start on the 5200. Right from the start the 5200 should have included something that would sell the system. But they didn't, and that slowed the 5200 down even more.
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When I first got the 5200, I had to desolder and solder parts around to get it working. It does- but I only have the port for Controller #1. This makes it tough to properly play Space Dungeon and Robotron: 2084.
Radio Shack has nothing.
Where can one get those 15-pin plugs?
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Point was, the 5200 games mostly had a "been there, done that" feel. Worse still, overall, Super Breakout and Space Invaders were BETTER on the 2600!
The CV games- with the obvious exceptions of Donkey Kong and Zaxxon- may have been lesser-known arcade games (Ladybug, Cosmic Avenger, etc.), but they proved very popular in the home format. Also, the promise of games like Wizard of Wor and Tunnels and Trolls helped sales. D&D was IMMENSELY popular at that point. Also, they looked better than the 5200 counterparts: compare Ladybug to Pac-Man, or Cosmic Avenger to Vanguard. The CV had a much better start than the 5200, and that all-important lead of a few months back in 1982 was crucial. What didn't help Atari was that they had to divide their efforts between the 5200 and 2600, not to mention their computers and arcade games. Even at its height, that was spreading it a bit thin.
I'm sorry, but the CV control scheme was in fact far better than the 5200's. Almost all games needed self-centering controllers; at least the CV passed that test.
What you are also overlooking is the fact that the CV used a standard 9-pin set up for controllers. Didn't like the CV controllers? No problem- you could plug in any number of 9-pin controllers for the 2600, the Commodore computers, etc. Since you could use the keypad on the second controller to start and select games, even that was no problem, and since most games needed only one fire button, you were mostly covered.
This was NOT the case with the 5200. Sure, I've designed two different modules to allow 9-pin controllers to be used for the 5200, but how much of that was around back in those days? The CV did not require such a hassle.
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Better than PMC? That's going to take some doing.
CV Pac-Man Collection: A Review.
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Graphics: 10
Sound: 10
Gameplay: 10
Arcade-To-Home: 9
Overall: 10
Opcode’s ColecoVision Pac-Man Collection, here at last, after a few years’ delay. A CV cartridge with not one but THREE games, this was one of the most eagerly awaited homebrew games ever. Containing Pac-Man, Ms. Pac-Man, and Pac-Man Plus, the big questions are: does it live up to the standards set by Space Invaders Collection, and was it worth the wait? Of course- but first, a brief background of these games…
Journey back with me, if you will, to an America before the Age of the Internet, before MP3 players, before cell phones that could do anything but cook dinner, before television with hundreds of channels…
Before a ruined economy. Before anyone had even heard of Indiana Jones, or Mr. T; when if you received more than five broadcast television channels you were doing well. Before political correctness and the Rush Limbaughs were everywhere. When a teenager’s first car did not require a Japanese Ph.D in physics to repair. When jobs were plentiful. When LPs were still around. When Disco was not yet dead. A different time, the start of a new decade…a different atmosphere and attitude…
1980.
It was the year Luke Skywalker discovered a terrible secret and Reagan first took office.
It was also the year when something odd appeared in the arcades: a game with a little yellow ball moving through a blue maze eating dots while being chased by colorful ghosts. It seemed to be a more colorful variation of an earlier game called “Dodgem,” but wait- here you could eat a large dot, and turn the tables on the frightened now-blue ghosts! And look- BONUS PRIZES!! ESCAPE TUNNELS!
This game would become one of the most successful ever.
It was Namco’s Pac-Man, released in this country by Bally/Midway .
The all-time King of Video Games, Pac-Man would earn who-knows how many millions of dollars, spawn a number of sequels direct and indirect, a cartoon series, a Christmas special, enough merchandise to sink an aircraft carrier, and even a cereal. The game was originally called Puckman, but an obvious bit of vandalism made the name change quite necessary.
Obviously, the massive success of this game caused a number of similar games to appear in the arcades: Ladybug, Mousetrap, Marvin’s Maze, the truly weird Fitter, and many others; some inspired, some outright rip-offs.
But there was something about Pac-Man dedicated players soon discovered: since the ghosts were programmed to react in certain particular ways, it was possible to develop patterns for the game that would allow a kid to play for up to a few hours on a single quarter. Since this was something any self-respecting arcade owner was not happy with, soon a number of fiendish programs appeared, all designed to cut playing time. There were also a large number of Pac-Man rip-offs, often identifiable by different names, more tunnels, or the like. All of these were illegal, although it was easy to find them back then, especially since there were many mini-arcades and more video machines to be found back in those days. There was also one program meant to make the game tougher that was legal; more on that later…
Of course, there were sequels, the best known being the pretty-colored game called Ms. Pac-Man. Contrary to popular belief, Namco did not develop Ms. Pac-Man; they developed Super Pac-Man instead. With some hacker help, Bally/Midway itself produced Ms. Pac-Man, who would become the all-time Queen of the Arcades. Move over, Chun-Li, Lara, Toadstool, Tina, Sophia, the lot of you; that little yellow ball with the bow topped all of you combined!
The feminine look was deceiving, though, because the game was much more difficult than her predecessor. It had not one but FOUR mazes, the prizes moved through the mazes, and, worst of all, the ghosts were programmed to move at least somewhat randomly, so patterns were mostly useless. In spite of this, Ms. Pac-Man proved so popular, she can still be found in arcades to this day!
Earlier, I mentioned a legal speed-up program for Pac-Man. It was hard to find (I myself, in spite of being in countless arcades, even Dutch and English arcades, back then, have seen it in one and only one place), but if you did it was certain to take you by surprise. It was Pac-Man Plus, and at first it didn’t seem to be any different. Sure, the maze was now green, the prizes looked different, and the ghosts looked different and each had a little leaf on its head when it turned blue, but other than that…then, you’d play it.
The first thing you noticed was that when you ate a prize, not only did the ghosts turn blue, but when you ate them you’d score 400, 800, 1600, and then a whopping 3200 points! And this could happen TWICE per screen! WOW!
Uh, then you’d eat a regular energizer, and notice that not only did the maze and regular dots sometimes all turn invisible, but…usually one of the ghosts did NOT change color; so, so much for grouping them close to you, or chasing one over an energizer. You also realized that the overall difficulty was higher than in Pac-Man. Normal patterns did not work, although there were those, the ones that did not use the energizers that were effective, such as the Lee Pattern.
Due to the popularity of Pac-Man, soon there was a home version announced by Atari for the Atari VCS (2600) back in 1981, and the excitement it generated was truly tremendous. We scooped it up, and then…
They could feel the disappointment all the way to Andromeda.
The game was AWFUL, so bad, that to this day it makes the Top Ten Worst Games Ever lists. Adding insult to injury, even the Odyssey 2 had a better game, K.C. Munchkin, which they were forced pull after Atari sued (one wonders if they had the legal right to do that- was it not Namco’s place, or possibly Bally/Midway’s, to sue?). While Atari did stage an amazing comeback with the 2600 version of Ms. Pac-Man, they’ll never be forgiven for their Pac-Man fiasco!
Obviously, when the 5200 was released against the ColecoVision in 1982, it had a version of Pac-Man, too. True, the ghosts were single-colored and the controllers were terrible, but overall it was quite good. Atari, with its Atarisoft division, also released a number of versions for numerous home computers.
Here one must mention a peculiar bit of trivia: Atari had a commercial showing off its 5200 version against the one for the ColecoVision. The only problem was, that was the 2600 version played on the CV 2600 adapter- they were mocking their own version! Even stranger, an unreleased 1983 prototype for the CV from Atarisoft was discovered that was SUPERIOR to the 5200 version in every way!
So much for history. Now, for the review.
Opcode’s CV Pac-Man Collection is, quite simply, an almost unbelievably accurate arcade-to-home translation of all three games. He has not only met the standards achieved by the Space Invaders Collection, but may well have exceeded them.
First of all, there are the title screens. Big, colorful words COLECOVISION streak together from top and bottom, then NAMCO, and then, the actual title screen: PAC-MAN COLLECTION.
The words are on a metallic-looking plate, done in such a way as to make it look as though the CV can show more colors than it actually can. A tiny hand can point to Pac-Man, Ms. Pac-Man, and OPTIONS. If you OPt to use OPcode’s OPtions (couldn’t resist), you can choose number of lives, Japanese or American versions, alternate names, normal or hard difficulty, or even how many credits you get for the two coins you insert (for a “normal” version, go with 2 coins/one credit).
Meanwhile, Pac-Man and Ms. Pac-Man are there, sometimes blinking their eyes; but, best of all, an electronic version of that goofy Buckman and Garcia song “Pac-Man Fever” plays- and it is amazingly good, even haunting, at times; “Wolf” has done an incredible bit of work there!
Note: If you want to play Pac-Man Plus, press the numbers 7, 5, 8, and 7 during this title screen (you might have to use controller two). Those would match PLUS on a telephone dial.
Since there are three games, I will first review those things they all have in common, rather than going through them three times.
First, the graphics: as you might have guessed, they are superb. The ghosts are multi-colored and, unlike most pre-NES versions, they are ROUNDED, not squared. Ms. Pac-Man looks like she does in the arcades, even more so than in the 7800 version, and the prizes are multi-colored, too.
To fully appreciate this, one must remember that a CV sprite can only be one color, and if more than four line up left to right, they can flicker and disappear. Therefore, if you want a multi-colored sprite character, you must combine two or more in order to do this. In some cases, like the enemy soldiers in Frontline, or the red and green monsters in Space Panic, you can “stack” two or more sprites, thus creating a multi-colored character which will not create more flickering, since its component colors do not line up horizontally, but this will not work with the ghosts or Ms. Pac-Man in these games. Therefore, in Pac-Man, you could have up to nine sprites lining up (assuming two-color ghosts), and even more in Ms. Pac-Man! This would create an intolerable amount of flickering, even worse than in Burgertime.
But by using a quick flickering method, Opcode has greatly cut down on this. The flickering is never severe, and nothing ever disappears. Ever. A weakness of the CV has been mostly overcome here, and the results are unbelievable. Oddly enough, what flickering (actually, more like some fading) does not really seem to get worse when more characters line up. By the way, if you watch this game on Youtube, remember that the flickering there is nothing like in “real life.” This alone boosts the “Graphics” score up to 10.
Of course, there are certain limitations. Pinky has either gotten a tan or become a huge Prince fan, because here he is purple. In fact, the colors are at times noticeably different than in the arcade versions, but this is simply due to the fact that the CV has a 16-color palette, and those arcade colors are not available. The information is all on the right side of the screen, just like Coleco’s 1982 Ladybug, and for the same reason: the arcade screen is taller than it is wide, as opposed to the home screen. The prizes, while they all look good, are usually not as colorful as their arcade counterparts, and may even look different than they do on the side; the pears and Galaxians are examples (the pears look better in the maze!). Also, some prizes look better than others: apples, peas, pretzels, and oranges merely look good, while bread, pancakes, and lemonade look excellent.
In all three games the mazes are arcade-exact as far as shapes, proportions, and number of dots are concerned, unlike most other versions. If there are seven dots somewhere in the arcade version, be assured there are seven in this version, too. This makes the game play here just like the arcade. The mazes for Pac-Man and Pac-Man Plus also look like their arcade counterparts, although the mazes in Ms. Pac-Man are single-colored. More about this later.
Naturally, all of the intermissions are here, too.
Sound is also terrific, although not quite the same as the arcade version at times- the wahca-wahca-wahca is more like wehca-wehca-wehca, for example, but again, this is due to the CV sound system. Listening to this game is every bit as satisfying as looking at it. Especially good is the sound after you eat a ghost! And, again, the title screen music is so good, it would boost the “Sound” score up to a 10+, if that was allowed.
Control is also superb. No other version I’ve ever played has the incredibly smooth control of this cartridge; the best way to describe it is “as smooth as liquid silk.” Not even Pepper 2 responds this well.
Patterns used in the original arcade games will work here.
In all three games there were "holding positions." These were places you could go to where the ghosts would not go; in Pac-Man and Pac-Man Plus, it is immediately to the right and up from the starting position- and you MUST be facing up. There are certain times it will not work: if you are being closely pursued, just after a chomped ghost (especially the red one) returns to the maze, or if a ghost is looking at you when you enter it. This feature is also present in Opcode's version, although, as in the arcade version, the holding positions are trickier in Ms. Pac-Man.
(Special thanks to TheDomesticInstitution for the Ms. Pac-Man holds information.)
Finally, a little-known feature of all three of these games is included: ghost territories. If you divide the maze(s) into four quarters, then in each one one of the ghosts will become unusually aggressive. In the upper left, it is the Pink (purple, here); the upper right, Red; lower left, Orange; and the lower right, Green ("PROG"). What's more, as in the arcade versions, the orange ghost will not close in on you anywhere but in its own territory, or just after returning to its normal color. Otherwise, if it can avoid you, it will. This explains why old patterns work in this home version.
And now, the individual games…
Pac-Man. This, Opcode’s version, is one of the absolute best anywhere. It leaves behind the 2600, 5200, Namco handheld, Atarisoft computer, NES, and even Atarisoft CV versions. True, the colors are a bit different (such as the purple ghost), but aside from some minor improvements in sound and graphics, not even the X-Box 360 or Playstation 3 can give you a better arcade-to-home experience than this version. The famous blue maze, as mentioned before, is shaped just like the arcade version, the dots are all properly accounted for, the length of time the ghosts stay blue (or if they don’t), the fact that they stay blue longer after the intermissions (for one screen), which, again, are all here- the sound, the side tunnels, the behavior of the ghosts…it’s all here. This home version is about as close to perfect as one can possibly achieve on a CV, and that is much closer than anyone would’ve suspected. What’s more, you even have the option of playing it as “Puckman.” Again, from what I’ve been able to ascertain, even the old patterns used on the original arcade machines will work here.
Ms. Pac-Man. The first thing you’ll likely notice is the fact that this version has single-colored mazes, instead of the multi-colored ones that gave the arcade version its distinct look. The reason for this? Because it is impossible to make the mazes both multi-colored AND arcade-perfect on a CV or most other earlier systems. While most other programmers would have chosen the multi-colored look (as seems to have been the case with the 5200 version), Opcode chose the proper shapes and numbers of dots. (If you wish to try to do both, just remember that on each line in a single space a CV can show any two, but ONLY two, colors, and if you want a black background, then you can include only one other color besides- can't do it, can you?). This game is an interesting example of how different programmers approach the same problem in different ways.
As a result of Opcode’s decision, the CV version of Ms.Pac-Man plays exactly like the arcade, unlike many other home versions.
What’s more, all four of the mazes still look quite good, and the dots are the same colors as in the arcade version (as close as a CV will allow, anyway). The moving prizes are superb, and move just like their arcade counterparts. I’ve also noticed that the sound effects are even closer to the arcade version than in Pac-Man. All three of the intermissions are present and accounted for, too, and once again “blue time” for the ghosts increases after one- for one screen, anyway.
An interesting thing about this game is that, once you finish the fourth maze four times, the game then cycles you through the third and fourth mazes for the rest of the game (as in the arcade), but the first time, and then every other time after, those mazes will have different colors (purple for the third and red for the fourth). If you are not expecting this, you may think that new mazes were added, but none were; only the colors are different.
This is probably the most challenging of the three games on this cartridge, and, just like in the arcade, you’ll find that the third maze is the most difficult. Overall, with the authentic game play and superb-looking characters, this is one version that cannot disappoint.
Pac-Man Plus. THE reason I bought this cartridge. As I mentioned earlier, I’d only seen this game in one place, back in 1983. Luckily, thanks to YouTube and an old book on video games, I was able to brush up on whatever I may have forgotten.
Sure enough, this game is about as accurate as I can possible tell, and playing it reminded me of how much fun it was back then. All of the weird quirks designed to make it so much trickier are present and accounted for, and it really is a near-perfect translation of the lesser known arcade game- yes, not all of the ghosts always change when you eat an energizer. Yes, sometimes the maze and dots do disappear. Yes, the prize does act as a double-point energizer. Best of all, the Lee pattern, which is described in Gamestar’s guide on arcade games, ACTUALLY WORKS here. This is proof that Opcode must have studied the games here very closely, so not only do they look and sound great, they also play so very much like the arcade versions, too. And it really is fun, earning 3200 points by chomping a ghost.
Since the maze is as it was in Pac-Man, except for being green, it looks just like it did in the arcade version. The odd look of the blue ghosts has been accurately reproduced here. The prizes all look good, but some more so than others, as mentioned earlier. Sound is also, of course, as good as in Pac-Man. Overall, then, it is about as flawless an arcade-to-home translation as one could possibly want, and with the different options you can choose, this game can be easier or even more difficult.
There is also one more thing here- it is not enough for a game to merely have great graphics and sound; it also needs that one thing that makes a good arcade-to-home translation truly great: the essence of that game. This is the element that truly recreates the experience of the arcade game, as much as possible, be it from 1978 or 2008, it doesn’t matter. It can be an experience and memory of a game an older gamer played in the arcades back in 1975, or a game a little kid enjoyed playing at the Laundromat a few years ago when mom did the wash before taking him and his brother for ice cream afterwards. Since almost all arcade games have a very limited lifespan in the arcades, some as short as a few months, then any home version that can capture that essence is truly something special…because that is all that will remain of it from then on. Pac-Man Collection has it, especially with Pac-Man and Pac-Man Plus, and that is why I stand by my statement that not even the modern systems can give you a better experience. The graphics and sound might be somewhat better, that is true, but that’s really about it. And that’s what makes this game a real achievement.
Finally, there is the cartridge, instruction booklet, and the box itself. No cheap, tacky half-effort here; what you have is exactly what you would've expected from a large company. Everything is of top quality, which does tend to show that maybe the hope of the future will once again come from small cottage industries. It has to start somewhere. So, to everyone involved in this project: congratulations! This effort scores a perfect 10.
(Note- the "Arcade-to-Home" scores a 9, only because a 10 means a PERFECT translation).
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I know this has been talked about before a few years back but who was #2 in the late 80's after Nintendo's NES? Was it the Atari 7800 , The Sega Master System or maybe even The Atari 2600jr. My guess is with combined sales of both the 7800 and 2600jr Atari was #2 in total system sales during that time? But what system was #2 the SMS, 7800 or 2600jr?Having had a 7800 in 1988, and knowing the video game scene quite well since it began, I can assure you that it was the SMS. Atari had shot themselves down years before, and it was only based on their old reputation or some Japan-bashing that they had any presence at all.
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Well, one thing working against the 5200 and for the CV was that while Venture and Ladybug were not exactly blockbusters in the arcades, they were new on the home scene, and those translations were amazingly good. In 1982, we were still used to 2600 translations, and could not believe our eyes when we saw those ColecoVision games!
The 5200, on the other hand, had crummy controllers, and games that had been seen before. I mean, Super Breakout as a pack-in game? If you liked that game, you had the 2600 version, and with the paddle controllers, it was actually better. Had the 5200 been built with digital controllers and had games like Pengo, Blueprint, Robotron: 2084, and others like that from the start, then it would likely have done better during those crucial few months.
Also- the 5200 Pac-man was better than the 2600- but what wasn't? Cosmic Cruncher for the Vic-20 and the O2's K.C. Munchkin were much better.
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Atari 5200 vs. CelecoVision
in Atari 5200
Posted · Edited by CV Gus
TRANSLATION: I posted something he didn't like.
If you don't like the threads, here's an idea- don't read them. And maybe you didn't notice who started this one?
Apparently, you did not comprehend the "7800" one- it was a HYPOTHETICAL situation, sort of like "what if Hitler had won the war?" Having BOUGHT (as in "I owned") a 7800 in 1988, and being on the S.S. Atari as it slowly, painfully, sank in those days, I've often wondered if an older system- the CV being the more established and therefore a more logical choice, although (in case you never read it) I've done the same with the 5200- could've done better against the NES.
If you look at it objectively, the Atari 2600 was the only gaming system Atari did well with. Their decision to abandon the 5200 after maybe 18 months doomed that one (if it had been doing well against the CV, why would they have done that?), the 7800 (see above) was a disaster, and the Jaguar was even worse.
As for the "3-6 million:" At the time, the video game magazines based the figures on company figures, and sales figures from stores. This is why you had such a wide range. Since they couldn't zero in on an exact figure, they simply gave the range they came up with. Keep in mind that back then there were something like 200,000,000 people in America, so even 6 million is only a fraction.