CV Gus

I'll dig up the diagram and see if someone can scan and post it.

I know that it's the controller, at least. I was hoping it was the switch, but it didn't work. Judging by the "wheels" the ball spins, it would be the pulse. I figured that it was, as you say, quickly tapping the controller in effect. Since you can normally play joystick games with the roller, it seems as though the controller "translates" the rolling to what a joystick would do. The reverse is not true, since you cannot play Slither with a joystick. What I'll probably have to do is "trace" the circuitry, and figure out what goes where. At least maybe I can narrow it down.

I'm sorry to say this, Vigo, but you still simply do not understand what I'm saying, and you do seem to get just a bit arrogant at times. The fact that the CV does not have built-in scrolling is absolutely meaningless by itself. All that matters is the fact that it clearly is capable of it, and smooth scrolling at that. So unless smooth scrolling on the CV comes at such a prohibitive cost that there isn't ever any point in doing it- and Matt Patrol, Nova Blast, B.C's Quest For Tires, Cosmo Fighter 2, and Moonsweeper show otherwise- then all a reasonable person can say is that although the CV can do smooth scrolling, it is not one of its strong points (here's why...). Quite frankly, judging by the fact that you gave up on 7800 programming after a few demo programs, and Supercat's replies in the other thread, I'm not sure you fully understand either CV or 7800 real limits and abilities. You obviously have know-how, but maybe not enough to give a proper comparison. I don't ask the same questions over and over, unless someone can never actually answer them. Simply knowing paper tech-specs is not nearly enough; I'm looking to get answers dealing with the practical. If a system can do something through indirect means, without crippling itself in other areas, then that's all that counts, although in a business cost/schedule sense, built-in things may well count. You keep saying that the CV does not have built-in scrolling- in fact, you keep saying that, WE GET THE POINT! That does NOT answer the question, since those games I bring up DO have smooth scrolling, so obviously there are ways around the problem. Do you know what limitations there are to this? If so, what? How do they compare to the 7800 limitations you yourself kept bringing up? You said Matt Patrol is impressive for a CV, but not for a 5200. Like how? Both are equally smooth. The 5200 version is blockier than the CV version. By my standards, had the CV version been completed, it would have been better than the 5200 version overall (esp. character graphics), and the more colors in the 5200 background would be countered by the blockiness. And the levels with the buildings in the CV version are more impressive. Can't the CV only show three sprites/line before you get flickering? 7800 compatibility with 2600 games meant a lot less in 1984 than it did in 1982, and even less than in 1986-1988 (depending on when the 7800 was first available wherever one was). The NES, overall, is no technical match for the SMS and Genesis, but people weren't exactly rushing to dump the NES for those other two. So why would it be different for the 5200 or CV with the 7800 or NES? Remember that Nintendo itself did not at first dare to take on the American market, which is why they wanted to sell the American (and possibly European?) rights to the NES to Atari. Brand loyalty, maybe. I am only interested in the end results, not just tech-specs. They do not tell everything; if one goes by them and them alone, then one would assume that the CV cannot do ANY scrolling ("it's not built in" does NOT equal "cannot do"). In the case of scrolling, Sirius and Matt Patrol prove that both the 7800 and CV can handle it- the only question is to what extent? What limitations? Again, you have yet to actually answer this; those two pages from before at least answered 7800 limitations. Q.- Could the 7800 handle Moon Patrol? If not, then WHY? I don't think I'm being unreasonable in wanting a side-by-side comparison, with practical explanations. In the Digital Press, such was given a few years ago between two recent systems- including why the particular specification did not say it all. That's what I'm looking for here.

Any ideas?

It requires a battery to do this. A circuit will run from the negative to positive on a battery, via the shortest and easiest way possible (the basis of my 5200 controller). Therefore, this extra current will not run into the CV itself. One of those early tests confirmed this. It flows through the controller, but not the CV. Super Action Controller buttons- the extra 2- are merely two keypad buttons being pressed at the same time for each. This is how you can play Front Line with a regular controller, albeit more clumsily. It is also the heart of my 2 button-to- 4 button regular controllers; a flick of the switch, and buttons 1 and 3 act as the two extra SAC buttons. I have 2 such controllers.

There's one thing that applies to all systems ever made- Research and Development. Both the NES and the SMS were backed by hulking 1200-pound gorillas. SMB3 for the NES was possible only because of extensive research and development of chips that enhanced the NES' abilities. The 2600 had this, too. Compare Star Ship to Solaris. But the 7800 was deprived. Even the cartridges and instruction booklets were, for the most part, ugly and cheap-looking. One just never got the impression that the Tramiels ever seriously backed the 7800. And if the 7800 was, as Vigo says, not up to (most) NES standards in the first place, then this became not stupidity, but suicide.

Gradius 2 and Nemesis 3 were shown. Other than making the player's ship look better, no complaints, really. Scrolling (Matt Patrol)- yes, the backgrounds were repetitive in the background (wasn't the arcade, too?)- but look at the buildings, and spinning radar dish, in every even level. You have THREE scrolling levels, all smooth, with LOTS of on-screen movement. Obviously the CV could handle smooth scrolling. Granted, there are limitations, but isn't that true for anything? The CV was simply not nearly as limited as many thought. A side-by-side comparison between the CV and 7800 would help somewhat, but each comparison would have to be followed by an explanation of how it would apply. Scrolling, for example- both the 7800 and CV could handle it, but what limitations would be on each? e.g. "...but if you wanted to do THIS on the CV (Superduper Enemisis 2), the only way to do it is to only have detailed edges, and some stars in the clear areas, because...if, however, you are willing to have choppier scrolling, then you can have a completely detailed playfield. The 7800, with the same game, can do..." :? I'm looking at Q*Bert's Qubes, and see far better graphics than Q*Bert- but not as many characters line up from left to right. For Q*Bert, I'd imagine that you could make Q*Bert and Coily look better (2 colors each), but the rest should stay single-colored, although for the globes you could simply "leave out" dots where the "shadows" on the object would go- a common trick with single-colored objects, I've done it numerous times on the C-64. That's more a matter of design than anything else, though. Thing is, I've had the CV since it came out in 1982. I've had the 7800 for now 20 years, so I've had a good, long time to observe the games of both. If the games are any indication, than the 2 are not that far apart, although obviously the 7800 has an advantage in character motion and display, but the CV has it with sound and (maybe?) certain displays. Bump `N Jump and Matt Patrol are examples of games that look nearly as good as what I'd expect on a 7800, and quite frankly Joust is quite close. And if those MSX games had been released for the CV, it would have had a variety to easily match the NES, and although the NES games are technically better, that difference would not have been great enough for most CV owners to dump the CV in favor of the NES. After all, how many people would have dumped the 5200 for the 7800, given a choice in the matter? Opcode's games have proven that the CV's abilities were all too often untapped, and that it was capable of far more. Perhaps we'll see 7800 homebrewers who will show this for the 7800?

Repaced the switch. Identical problem. I'd suspected that, too, but no dice. What's interesting is the vertical is not affected, but the horizontal is- it's as if the joystick is jammed left or right. When you spin the trak ball to the left, it's as if the joystick is jammed to the left, and a spin to the right "jams" it to the right. Both sides are affected, as can be seen in the 2-player version of Omega Race.

Notice the differences in Q-Bert himself, the ball, and the cube orientation. Well... let's be realistic here. At least you could play Q-Bert on the Colecovision!!! With Warner's craptacular (albeit well-translated) line-up of fossilized rehashes for the 7800's 1984 launch, there was nothing really better on the 7800 in terms of originality/gameplay than what was already on the Coleco. How the hell do you launch a new system entirely with five-year-old games? I guess there was Desert Falcon, but Zaxxon with a bird hardly constitutes new thinking. It's no wonder Atari was dumped by Warner in exchange for promissary notes from Jack Tramiel. Looking at the brain-damaged 7800 launch plan, clearly Atari management went from smoking weed in the 70s to smoking copious amounts of crack by mid-80s. To the Tramiels...talk about from the frying pan into the fire. The 7800 never had a chance. Seriously, though, the game selection was nutty. Most of its games had already been done on the 5200 less than 2 years earlier (initial release was for Fall of 1984- I still have the 1984 game magazines about it). If Joust and Dig Dug had been 100% completed on the CV, that really would have been a devastating blow for the 7800. It seemed as though Atari had no idea what to do after 1983. The way the 7800 was managed looked like The 3 Stooges From Hell.

Notice the differences in Q-Bert himself, the ball, and the cube orientation. But Q*Bert's Qubes showed that a much better looking Q*Bert was possible.

DanBoris brings up an interesting point I should have mentioned. This is 2008. The only new games for any of the older systems will be homebrew, so this is not as important now. But back in "the day," ease or difficulty of programming was vital. Say System A has built in scrolling, while System B doesn't (most else equal). However, System B has so much more raw processing power that it can handle smooth scrolling and plenty of on-screen action. In theory, both systems are pretty much equal. Let's use Super Cobra or Nemesis as an example. Problem is, back then companies had budgets and schedules. If System A and System B can handle near-identical games, but System B takes more effort and time, chances are its games won't be as good as System A, unless the company wanted to invest more (whatever) into it. "User friendly" had advantages. Probably still does.

Yes. In spite of the trouble one might have finding replacement controllers- and the fact 5200 controllers are tough to repair- the 5200 has some great games: Blueprint Ms. Pac-Man Pac-Man Super Pac-Man Centipede (esp. with Trak-Ball. I like it better than the 7800 version) Robotron: 2084 (I like it better than the 7800 version) Berzerk ("Chicken! Fight Like a robot!") Qix Defender Super Breakout (with paddle controller) Pengo Space Dungeon Ballblazer Star Raiders Choplifter! Mountain King I think Bristles and Miner 2049'er are also available. There are more.

What I am after is something to slow down the rate at which you can fire/punch/hammer/whatever. It is not autofire, just an adjustable delay to make games tougher. Problem is, there are TWO fire buttons, and they share a common wire (blue). In games like Looping and Tarzan, the buttons do two different things, and my module will allow you to affect either, both, or none; and each one differently- so the left fire button might work, say, once every 3 seconds, while the right can be set to once every 2 seconds . The two buttons also share wires (green and grey) with other controller functions, which must be unaffected. Also, the voltage and current for one of those buttons barely shows up on my multitester! Also, it has to be adjustable. Looping, I'd want to be able to shoot once ever, say, 1/2 or 3/4 seconds, maybe even once/second. Tarzan, to punch once every 5 seconds or so. Burgertime, to throw pepper no faster than, say, once every 3 or 4 seconds. Mr. Do!'s Castle, to hammer no faster than once every, say, 4 seconds. I have beaten Looping. The mazes are tricky, due to the delicate controls, but the airfield is easy to beat. Burgetime too. And Mr. Do!'s Castle. This thing will make those games TOUGH, and since I cannot do anything about the software, I'll do it via hardware. Pitstop is a blast with such a driving module! I'll supply diagrams once I actually get the thing built and working properly. Right now, all I have to show are some early tests, and nothing dealing with an actual CV.

Imagine a 7800 that, in 1988, had Asteroids Deluxe, Space Duel, Beef Drop, B*nq, and PacMan Collection. I'm not saying it would have saved the system, but it probably would have had less detractors. The Asteroids trilogy and PacMan Collection alone would make it worth a purchase. Very likely, since the majority of 7800 buyers were older gamers like myself. Atari did not seem to realize this, and the 7800 seemed to be caught in a sort of near-limbo, neither satisfying older gamers or younger gamers (who went with the NES, which was current). Still, Space Duel for the 7800 gives some of us a chance to play a game we haven't played in decades.

It's just after the NES vs. 7800 thread, it seemed that the 7800 was just not as big a leap from the CV as I had thought. In fact, if CV Joust, Dig Dug, and Pac-Man had all been 100% completed and released, I probably never would've gotten a 7800, esp. since the CV had a much better variety- Fortune Builder, for example. Just last night, I played Bump `N Jump, and was impressed by how good it was- fast-moving, decent enough scrolling, and multi-colored vehicles, not to mention remarkably detailed playfields. Mr. Do!'s Castle was another (well, o.k., single-colored enemies, but still- could the 7800 have done a much better-looking playfield?). And Opcode's fantastic Space Invaders Collection still amazes me- right down to the out-of-sync way the invaders move. Pepper 2 has those VERY colorful and detailed playfields. Cosmo Fighter 2 shows tremendous amounts of on-screen movement, as does Sky Jaguar. And the end boss in Cosmo Fighter 2, with the nicely-scrolling multi-plane starfields, was something I did not think possible. Not to mention Matt Patrol. The 3-level scrolling, along with many enemies and things happening, has to be seen to be believed- what a 100% finished product would look like would be something one did not expect on any third-generation system. It doesn't seem as though the move from CV to 7800 is as great as 7800 to NES. I actually like the 5200 better than the 7800, although that has more to do with the library of games than anything else. Then again, are the colors brighter on a 5200 than a 7800?

I'm not sure I'd like those- too much like the NES controllers, and they were always a hassle for me. Glad I got the regular ones back in 1988.

I think I've finally figured out the one problem that's kept it from working properly. The problem is this: when the power in the capacitor builds up, you want to drain ALL of it when you fire, quickly, so the cycle begins again. But I had no way of doing this. One answer just led to another problem, and I always came back to where I had started from. The new design consists of not one but two coils. One is only activated when you fire, which drains the capacitor. It is kept "open" by itself; only when all power is drained will the circuit shut off. The trick is to find the proper resistors for the circuit: you want the incoming electricity to the capacitor to be slower than the outgoing, but not so slow that it would interfere with the module's function. Coil/reed switches have resistors built in, so that has to be considered. A text description: You all know the trick of connecting a capacitor to a battery to "fill" it. You also know that adding a resistor to this circuit slows the time it takes. A variable resistor allows you to choose how much longer it takes. From the capacitor a circuit goes through a coil/reed switch, through the coil. The actual CV fire circuit goes through the reed- when current goes through the coil, the CV acts as if you had pushed the fire button. Between this and the actual fire button is a zener diode. Current cannot flow until the proper voltage has been reached. Once sufficient voltage (in the capacitor) has been reached, then, when you push the fire button, current can flow. It goes through the first coil, which activates the actual "fire" circuit. However, current also flows through a coil/reed switch AFTER the fire button. The reed part of this connects the circuit just after the first coil through the coil of the second. Power from the coil now by-passes the zener diode. As long as there is sufficient power in the capacitor, the reed in the second switch stays closed, allowing the current to drain. Once it is gone, then it opens. The cycle begins again. So far, initial tests are hopeful. This may well be it. This seems to be the only way I can get this running. I do not have the money or resources for anything else. Also, it has two on/off/reconnect to "normal" switches, since CV games often have two functions for the two buttons (e.g. Looping), or games in which only one button does anything, like Mr Do!'s Castle. This way, you can choose one, none, or both buttons to affect. saves electricity, since this does run on a battery. If you have not read my previous post: the reason for this thing is to slow the rate of fire in some games, making them tougher. Looping, Mr. Do!'s Castle, Spectar, Tarzan, and Burgertime would be the games I'm thinking of. This is proving to be the toughest project yet. The coil/reed switches are the same as in my no-battery driving module. That also has a second input for a second pedal- this acts as a brake for Pitstop. It simply acts as if you are pulling down on the joystick. All components for the regular circuit are included, like the diodes. My respect for Opcode's "Super CV Module" has increased fivefold.

Congratulations to 7800 Space Duel and its programmers! This is one game I certainly would like to buy- my first non-ColecoVision homebrew, no less! Know something? I'll bet this game would have been popular back in 1988 on the 7800.

The old 7800 joystick seemed to work nicely enough, and it was comfortable enough to use. Didn't they switch to an NES-style controller after a time?

Impressive, and uniquely designed. I notice you used velcro on it- just like my digital controller! It's pretty nifty, the way you combined the two parts- but why are there so many buttons on the back, is it to make it easy fire? And are there two kinds, for games like Pole Position? I used a rocker switch for the gear shift; it operates the up and down joystick position. 2600 paddle controllers were well-designed, so any paddle game you play with that probably has a better feel than my own controller.

Well, we've just had a "7800 vs. NES" thread. (note- in case I bring up the "Atari 6400" again, it was a hypothetical system. Just so some people know.) After those two pages that answered my questions about the 7800, I'm wondering if, at least in many ways, the ColecoVision wasn't better than the 7800. In sound, the answer is obviously "yes," but what about anything else? My own observations: Sound was obviously better on the ColecoVision. As was that of the 5200. The CV could only show 16 colors/shades to the 7800's 256, but apparently there's more to it than that. "Brightness of colors," which is why NES games look more vibrant, for example. How many colors can be shown with what resolution mode is another, which is why, in the Atari ads comparing the CV to the 5200, they would mention 256 colors and 25% better resolution (200X320?), but never actually the two together. A CV sprite could be 16X16, and one color (note- I do NOT consider "background color" to be a color for anything but the screen). Also, no more than 3 could be lined up horizontally, before you'd get flickering, although with Matt Patrol there seemed to be ways of dealing with this. The CV could show a maximum of 32 sprites. Although the CV did not have built-in scrolling, which no doubt required extra processing power for games that did scroll, it did have scrolling games. Front Line and the otherwise magnificent Sky Jaguar had poor scrolling, but Bump `N Jump had better scrolling; and did Nova Blast, Matt Patrol, and the hidden message in Kevtris have pixel-to-pixel scrolling? The CV had a maximum resolution of 192(V)X256(H), or 24X32 (8X8 pixel) spaces. The CV could handle plenty of on-screen motion, as in Slither and Frenzy (and Sky Jaguar). It would be interesting to see an NES-style Guantlet or 5200-style Robotron on the CV. For screen colors, each horizontal line in each space (8 pixels) could have a MAXIMUM of 2 colors. Any 2 colors, but that would include background. So if you had a black screen, a line could have BLACK/RED, BLACK/GREEN, BLUE/RED, PURPLE/BLUE, etc., but not, say, RED/BLUE/BLACK, hence the appearance of the mazes in Opcode's Ms. Pac-Man- it was either multi-color mazes, or arcade-perfect-shaped mazes. He made the right choice. Evidently there is a special visual mode that was used in Mr Do!'s Castle, that allows for some nifty-looking playfields (albeit static). Beyond that, I don't know. Pretty basic stuff, but at least I have some idea of what a CV could do. So- let the Atari 7800 vs. ColecoVision comparison begin!

I'm afraid that you are not very good at understanding another's point, beyond tech specs. I am also no fanboy of the 7800 (CV Gus, hint hint...), but- if you can understand my other posts- I am NOT a fan of the Tramiels screwing up the whole 7800 affair due to incompetence. What I have wanted to know for years- and please read this- is a WHAT IF situation. WHAT IF the 7800 was backed by a 1200 pound gorilla (excellent programmers, R&D, etc.) the way the NES was? What then? What COULD it have done? Might seem pointless in 2008, but as long as we're all here, hey. And when I said 1 to 1, that meant both ways. Try putting a Playstation game on a SMS. The only way you can is with two identical systems. The SMS and the NES both have Gauntlet. They are quite different. But the NES version is still good, even if the SMS has superior harware. So- as with a CV version of SMB, could the 7800 have done a good enough version- or would it have been a total disaster to even try? Really, now? A system with lower resolution cannot do as sharp an image as one with higher resolution? Wow, never knew that. This is one reason technopeople are not too popular at times; they jump to the wrong conclusions. The MSX has lower resolution than the NES, and has lesser color schemes, but it still has a respectable Super Mario Bros., even if it looks somewhat rushed out. Heck, MSX games are terrific (Nemesis 1, 2, and 3!), even if the NES COULD do better versions. But what do you want with the #2 Fourth Generation system against a Third Generation system? My question was- even though less than the NES in image quality, would the 7800 have been at least good enough? And yes, I do know the difference with televisions. What YOU don't seem to understand is that the 7800 wasn't meant to be run on certain kinds of televisions. Just as NES Gyruss was not meant to be played on a black and white television. I've hooked up my 7800 to dozens of televisions over the years (even rear projection), and have yet to encounter that problem. As for explaining: compare your posts to these below: Vdub Bobby: http://www.atariage.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=119653 And this nifty page: http://atari7800.xwiki.com/xwiki/bin/view/Main/NES Just 15 minutes of studying both pages answered every question I had, esp. with Vdub Bobby's. So, now I know what I needed to know. Samples: "Although the 7800 MARIA GPU has the capability of creating better graphics than the NES, it is hamstrung by the amount of CPU power required to maintain the display lists needed to create those graphics. Plus, the 7800 GPU halts the CPU while the graphics are being created, further reducing the amount of CPU time available to the game. The NES wins out with it's easy to use fixed function GPU which leaves the CPU free to execute more code per frame. More available CPU time allows for better AI, improved responsiveness, and generally smoother gameplay. This is not to say that the 7800 is not capable, nor that there aren't games where the 7800 version is better than the NES equivalent. But, other than a pure # of sprites, the 7800 isn't a clear winner over the NES from any standpoint. To say otherwise requires very narrow view." And this: Porting from the NES to the 7800, a think exercise Needless to say, and NES to 7800 port will require a lot of changes to the graphics and sound due to the very different capabilities of the two consoles. In order to duplicate the color capabilities of NES tiles (each 2x2 block of tiles is 1 of 4 three color palettes), it will be necessary to use the 7800 160B graphics mode. Each tile will be 2 bytes = 4 pixels wide, and the NES has 32 tiles per line, so the screen will be only 128 (of 160) pixels wide. This may be a blessing in disguise since it will make it easier to scale the NES sprites which are twice the width. Although you could use all 160 pixels to show more tiles, this would leave no time for the GPU to display any sprites. Even with only 32 tiles per line there's only enough time to display 6 160A sprites per line (plus a border to mask the horizontal scrolling). The alternative would be to drop the background tiles to 160A, but that would only allow 4 colors for the whole background. The sprites can use either 160A or 160B graphics modes, although 160A is closer to the NES capabilities. Sound would have to be recreated by ear because the sound capabilities of the NES and the 7800 (even with a POKEY) are radically different. Game logic (outside of GPU and controller interfacing) should be largely portable (assuming you have commented source code), depending on whether it has any other hardware dependencies and how much game logic processing it does per frame. Details one needs to know were included, in an organized and well-explained format. You did fail to tell me what I needed to know, I'm sorry to say. When I was asked about my digital 5200 controller at other websites, I never assumed the person was an idiot, but that I was not expalining it properly. Once I did, everything was fine. You seem to know something about both systems, but need to know how to explain it to someone who is unfamiliar with other formats. Good luck for the future. And try 7800 programming again, or NES. Homebrews are always welcome.

Sock puppets? Do I need sock puppets for you to understand what I'm asking? For the last time, here it is: Just what kind of SMB COULD a 7800 do? (For a comparison, would it be better or worse than a CV (MSX) version done by a pro?). I KNOW you cannot do a 1-1 conversion, name two different systems where you could. As for the three-color player ship in 7800 Sirius- could one not superimpose another object ("tile") on it? I've known for years the weird way the 7800 does things (again, my talents are with Commodore computers; CV and 7800 displays are bizarre to someone used to a C-64). What I DON'T know, and you are not answering, is just to what extent the 7800's "motion capabilities" can overcome it. If I can move twice as fast as Big Al, but he can carry twice the load, we'll end up doing the same amount of work. So how much, in the case of Sirius, COULD the 7800 do? Could it superimpose TWO tiles for the background, for a six-color effect, for example? Or would that take too much for the 7800? Sheesh- another lousy screenshot...although it does show 3 colors nicely... What you are not saying is just what the 7800 COULD do with COMBINED abilities. I've played MSX games, so I have an idea what the CV can do (memory aside), and thanks to Newcoleco, Pixelboy, and Opcode, a good idea of what the CV can do with images and playfield. The CV does not have built-in scrolling. I know that. But I also know that Bump `N Jump has better scrolling than Front Line (it's actually quite good period), with detailed, colorful playfields. Matt Patrol, Nova Blast...obviously, the CV can compensate, at least in many cases. Therefore, the fact that the CV does not have the sort of scrolling the NES has, does not mean that it cannot do good scrolling, even capable of matching that found in at least some NES games (consider a good CV Defender and a good NES Defender). Just for an example, if the Atari 6400 console had NES-style scrolling (as you describe), but the CV had much greater processing power, enough to cancel the 6400 advantage out, then they can be considered equal (equivalent?) in the end. I am NOT saying that the 7800 and NES are even. But it's obvious that Bubble Bobble on the 7800 would not have the flickering the NES suffers from. Double Dragon on the NES has only one player and two enemies at any one time. Xevious does not scroll when you face the mothership. Gauntlet 2 is tedious, because those extra graphics demand too much of the NES- Gauntlet, on the other hand, with the "custom characters" going from space to space, does not (it is fast and TOUGH). Scrolling on Xevious and Tower Toppler for the 7800 is excellent, and the backgrounds are impressive. Very. Even with a number of enemies. All multi-colored. Guess what I want to know is what the 7800 can and cannot do, BASED ON ITS OVERALL ABILITIES COMBINED. Just as you cannot judge the work done by Big Al and myself based on speed alone. You are not answering that question. Wonder what a CV Gauntlet would be like.

I like it. Interesting comment about Radio Shack- they do not seem to be as "project or repair" orientated as they once were. But I like your controller. The design is fascinating, it reminds me of a Jaguar controller- is that what you were trying for? How has it improved your 5200 gameplay? Thanks to mine, I beat 20,000 in Berzerk, and with the paddle, Super Breakout and Pole Position are now great!

I cannot. Every time I try it, it just won't come up. Don't forget, only recently have I been able to properly view YouTube. If you must "open with..." and you get that list, then forget it. It will not run; NOBODY here can, although they can on their own computers.