CV Gus

That's just it here- if you switch it to "Joystick" mode, it does not work- you get those problems I described. You must keep it in "Roller" mode at all times. Period.

Thats's because Tower Toppler uses 2 neighboring hires pixels to create a NTSC multi colour display, since the pixel clock of the 7800 is exactly double the NTSC colour subcarrier. However, once you play the game on a PAL console, our happen to modify your 7800 with an S-Video output, it looks exactly as shitty as these screenshots. The screenshots represent accurately what MARIA is outputting. ******** Just what the hell kind of logic is that? That's like showing an NES game on a black and white television, and then criticizing it for not having color. ANY game system ever made can have lousy looking games if you deliberately cripple the visuals, which is what happened here. Fact is, when you PLAY IT ON A 7800, it looks great, with detailed, multi-colored graphics. What else counts? ********* Yes you can, but with lots of limitations. You can render a whole tile display, but with no colour attributes, all tiles have the same colours. If you want more colours, you need for each tile a seperate display list entry, which totally blows the DMA bandwidth of the 7800. That's why having simple backgrounds, but lots of big sprites are an advantage on the 7800. ******** How many colors? Can some tiles have fewer than others? But to what extent CAN the 7800 do it? If someone offered you a million dollars- or a month's supply of gasoline, whichever costs more- to program a version of SMB on the 7800, best you could do, what would it be like? Don't forget, I've heard the word "impossible" used over and over all of my life, yet in the late 1970s a company called Activision managed over and over to program games for the 2600 that were declared impossible. And Coleco said that the CV could not do talking games without a module, yet Sewer Sam and Squish `Em Sam did it. ****************** I already explained, the 7800 can do tiles, but very limited. ********* Look plenty good to me. Not THAT limited. ****************** You have the following problems in porting SMB on the 7800: Resolution: 256x224 pixels (NES) vs. 160x200 (7800) The NES supports screen "wrap around" freeing lots of CPU time, the 7800 don't. The NES supports colour attributes for tiles, the 7800 don't. The NES has seperate buses for CPU and graphics, the 7800 has to share both, meaning rendering of graphics steal CPU time. The NES has much better sound than the 7800. ******** A phonograph from the 1920s has better sound than the 7800. Still, it was enhanced for some later games. True, the NES has better resolution- but the more you do, the more it takes; more pixels means more work. Maybe too much. Not a problem in SMB, but Gauntlet 2 was a slow snoozefest. And again, so what if the 7800 SMB has lower resolution? The CV had 192X256 (VXH), and its games look good. Look- I've already granted that the NES is more powerful in those respects, but there is a big difference between absolutely cannot and can but not as well. The Colecovision can NOT DO smooth scrolling in hardware. The NES can. The 7800 can. The C64 can. And did you ever play the MSX version of SMB? Btw, concerning Xevious on the 7800: look at "The Guradian Legend" on the NES. It has ultra fast scrolling, which is easily possible because the hardware supports coloured tiles, and the screen does wrap around at boundaries: Don't mind the jerkiness of the youtube video, on real hardware, the game runs constantly at 60fps. Another game which I do not think is possible to replicate on the 7800. ****************** Jerkiness on YouTube- how is that different than a screenshot making the 7800 Tower Toppler look much worse than it actually does in "real life?" All of us CV owners know the CV can't do hardware based scrolling. But there is Cosmic Avenger. Nova Blast. B.C's Quest for Tires. Matt Patrol. Moonsweeper. Kevin Horton's demo. And yes, I know this takes processing power, so there's less for (whatever). But it can be done. And yes, I've played MSX SMB. Again, we CV owners don't mind a bit of choppiness. We're used to it, a-la Sky Jaguar. So- if the MSX (MSX is very much like a CV) can do a version of SMB, surely the 7800 can, too. Just not as good looking, and huge boss enemies without flickering might be possible. Besides, beyond some better use of color, the MSX (CV) SMB would get my $35.00. It's just fine. Is Guardian Legend natural, or does it use any of those cartridge "booster chips" Nintendo came up with? ************ This has turned into a fascinating thread. Maybe I'll figure out CV programming yet...

You mean like these?: I just can't stand emulators on a computer monitor. :-) Blurry, but definitely better, yes. Not like that rotten screenshot. Why do ALL 7800 screenshots look so awful? What would happen if you took a picture with a decent digital camera, printed out the picture, scanned it, and put THAT up?

Well, I'll take it apart over the weekend. Maybe it's a simple enough problem. Besides, don't YOU remember the Coleco TV ads pointing out how you can play joystick games with the trak ball?

Must be a pretty lousy screenshot- I have the 7800 Tower Toppler, and the character graphics are multi-colored and nicely detailed. That's why I figured #2 to be the 7800 one. From what you're saying, Vigo, I am guessing that, unlike Atari computers, you cannot just draw screens and scroll them on a 7800. For those "brick tiles," and "sideways pyramid blocks," then, it would be like moving many, many objects sideways at once. IMPORTANT FOR MY ENLIGHTENMENT ON THE SUBJECT:[/b] But what about the underwater scenes from Tower Toppler? The game Xevious? If EVERYTHING is an object, then aren't the trees, water, enemy weapons (ground based), and such objects? The trees look alike. Yet, there is plenty of on-screen motion, very smooth. Or do you mean things that interact with the characters (they do not in Xevious or Tower Toppler- you cannot crash into anything, except shots and airborne enemy craft, fish, whatever)? The way Mario can be blocked, or run on, or smash, the tiles? The CV could do a side scroller. Cosmic Avenger. Not the smoothest, true, but we CV owners don't mind. Besides, there is the MSX version of SMB.

C-64 7800 NES How about explaining just what you WOULD do with a 7800 version, rather than what you can't? I understood your reply some time ago; you're just not understanding what I'm asking.

All I can tell you is that I played those games- including Defender- just fine until recently. But now you cannot play Pepper 2 or Star Fortress, or any such game, with the RC in "roller mode." You could before, but not now. So doesn't that mean that it must be an RC malfunction? Oh- I did try it on three CVs. Same exact thing every time.

Well, there's no arguing that the NES had a much bigger library and variety of games. Overall, you were probably better off with an NES for that reason. But after seeing some of those other games, some of the splendid homebrews (Burgertime and Q*Bert), not to mention those "discovered" side and top scrolling action games, the 7800 at the very least could have done much better. If Atarisoft had released 100% completed versions of Joust, Dig Dug, and Pac-Man, and if Lord of the Dungeon and Tunnels and Trolls had been released- not to mention if Coleco had not gotten into that stupid ADAM computer, wasting resources and driving down the quality of too many 1983 games- then the ColecoVision could have really stood up to the NES! So why not the 7800? How much of it was just a lack of effort and skill? Even I know how Nintendo's R&D people greatly increased the NES' power with chips in the cartridges (such as SMB3). I'm not saying the 7800 could have as easily handled SMB- I'm just saying that I cannot believe that it could not have done a good enough version. Or at least an acceptable one.

I'm just thinking about Xevious, Tower Toppler, and even Double Dragon. Just how would Super mario Bros. look on a 7800? Note- most of my programming skill is with the Commodore computers.

Only problem is, until recently it DID work just fine (including Defender). And Coleco's old commercials for it pointed out that you could play joystick games with the roller (they showed Pepper 2). And that is actually what I did with games such as Star Fortress. So these problems I'm having with it now must be some sort of malfunction (note that this occurred in 2008, and I've had the thing since mid-2000). That's what the Joystick/Roller switch was for, too.

I still think, based on the earlier screenshots, that it looks just fine. If it plays as well as it looks, then this game is a real accomplishment. I especially like the idea of adding 2600-style options, such as simultaneous two-player action.

Not quite the same thing. I had just seen these games now, with proper sound and no "glitching up (freezing)." Before, I did not really know how impressive they were (I do not have these games for the 7800). As for Super Mario Bros.- I'm not so sure the 7800 couldn't. Wouldn't the "tiles" be custom characters, which even the MSX seemed to (at least mostly) handle? It might look somewhat different, but still close enough. It's only because of "lost" games and homebrewers that we'll ever know just what the 7800 could do, really.

Just saw some games for it on YouTube, including Ninja Golf, Alien Brigade, and KLAX. The 7800 could easily have matched the NES, clearly. Especially with its ability to move so many objects so well, such as the dragon in Ninja Golf and the just-as-good scenery in KLAX. No, the only problem the 7800 had that doomed it was the same that doomed the 5200 and ColecoVision: stupid management.

There are many of those page not found error messages, and I cannot find CV Astro Invader. Why did they change the old format? It worked just fine. (?)

I have tried the games without it, and they work fine. So, it's not that "controller port" problem (at least I know how to repair THAT). You can play both joystick and roller controller games normally; the problem comes in when you try to play a joystick game using the roller mode. In Defender, for example, it's as if you are jamming a joystick left or right (depending on how you first move the roller). If you play "normally," every time you shoot you set off a smart bomb. All other games act as if you are jamming the joystick left or right. Thanks for any help in advance!

Now that would be a tough enough project. Not because of the electronics- that's easy enough- but trying to put together the joystick for it all, that's the tough part. You'd best stick with Atari's design, at least the basics.

If you want to build a digital controller for the 5200, maybe this can help... Here are the text instructions: PART ONE: WHAT IS IT? When the Atari 5200 was released in late 1982, it was an attempt by Atari to match the ColecoVision. As a result, it had a good number of arcade-to-home translations, including Atari arcade games (before mid-1984, "Atari" was a single huge company). Unfortunately, Atari was to make a technical decision that really ended up hurting 5200 sales: the console was released with strange controllers which did not self-center, and were "analog," not "digital." "Digital" simply means on or off. When you move a regular joystick controller in a particular direction, you activate a switch that allows current to go through. This tells the game that you are doing something. When you move diagonally, you are simply activating 2 such switches at the same time. The fire buttons work the same way. "Analog," however, means not only on or off, but how much. A light switch with a dimmer is a perfect example of this. With the 5200 joystick, when you moved the stick in a particular direction, the game not only knew which direction the stick was moved, but by how much. This is very clear in Missile Command- move the stick a bit to the left, and the cursor moves a bit to the left, and then stays there. Move it more, and the cursor moves more. How far the cursor moves depends on how far you move the stick over. Unfortunately, there wasn't a single arcade game from that era, to my knowledge, that had such a control scheme. Most had regular joystick controls; a few had trak-balls (Centipede, Missile Command) or paddles (such as Super Breakout). As a result, it was next to impossible to react very quickly, with short, precise moves. And while it did work moderately well for Missile Command, it just wasn't as good as paddle controls for Super Breakout. It was just a rotten idea. PART TWO: HOW DOES IT WORK? Using a 15-pin cable, the 5200 controller had a joystick with 4 fire buttons (2 on each side: upper and lower) and 15 buttons. These were the standard 1-9, 0, and * and #- just like on a touch-tone phone- below the joystick. The extra 3 were above the joystick and were START, PAUSE, and RESET. All but the latter 3 had different functions for different games. The buttons actually were pretty standard as far as circuitry went. When you pushed the button, a small piece of conductive material would touch 2 halves of a sort of disc-shape. Each half simply connected to two particular wires, so, when you pressed a button, it was like touching the ends of 2 different wires to each other. The joystick, however, was anything but standard. What the set-up actually did was to turn two different "potentiometers"- variable resistors- which are simply like two tiny paddle controllers. It was literally like having two paddle controllers: one for up and down, and one for left and right. "Resistors" are things which limit the flow of electricity, just like a faucet limits the flow of water. The higher the resistance, the less flow of electricity you have. The lower the resistance, the more electricity flows. Resistance is measured in "Ohms." A 100 Ohm resistor will limit the flow of electricity twice as much as a 50 Ohm resistor. A "potentiometer" is simply a resistor which can be adjusted- just like a faucet. Turn it one way, and the resistance increases; turn it the other way, and it decreases. The 5200 joystick can turn both potentiometers. One controls the vertical; the other, the horizontal. The 5200 games act based on the two values. In just about every 5200 game, it works like this: VERTICAL= Increasing resistance moves DOWN. Decreasing resistance moves UP. HORIZONTAL= Increasing resistance moves RIGHT. Decreasing resistance moves down. Therefore, when you move the joystick left decreases the resistance in that potentiometer. Pull it down, and you are increasing the resistance in the other one. The easiest way to see this is to plug in most games, and, after starting it, unplug the controller. You are completely breaking the circuit for both vertical and horizontal; this is "near infinite" resistance. Which way do you think the (whatever) on the screen will move? If you answered "down and right," then you've got it. PART 3: BASIC WIRING. Hmmmm...now we get down to it! The 5200 controller wiring is complicated only if you try to take it all in at once, looking in an actual 5200 controller. In reality, the scheme is pretty basic: with the exception of the joystick controls, everything else is simply a matter of 2 different wires touching to achieve something. That's it. So, without further ado...here it is! VERTICAL= RED and BLACK (with potentiometer). HORIZONTAL= BROWN and BLACK (with potentiometer). UPPER FIRE BUTTON= GREEN/WHITE and ORANGE. LOWER FIRE BUTTON= YELLOW and ORANGE. START= RED/WHITE and ORANGE/WHITE. PAUSE= PURPLE and ORANGE/WHITE. RESET= BLUE and ORANGE/WHITE. Keypad Buttons: 1= ORANGE 2= WHITE (1, 2, and 3 touch RED/WHITE) 3= GREY 4= ORANGE 5= WHITE (4, 5, and 6 touch PURPLE) 6= GREY 7= ORANGE 8= WHITE (7, 8, and 9 touch BLUE) 9= GREY *= ORANGE 0= WHITE (*, 0, and # touch GREEN) #= GREY In other words, touch ORANGE and GREEN and you "press" *. Touch GREY and GREEN and you "press" #. Touch WHITE and PURPLE and you "press"...if you said 5, then you have it. Now, these colors assume you are actually using the cable from a 5200 controller. What if you don't have such? No problem, because here's where those wires lead to in a 5200 cable: The 5200 controller plug has 15 holes: there are 2 rows; 8 in the top row, and 7 in the bottom row. OOOOOOOO OOOOOOO I will number them. This assumes you are looking at the holes in the plug, with the 8-hole row on top: 01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 10 11 12 13 14 15 01= GREEN 02= RED/WHITE 03= PURPLE 04= BLUE 05= ORANGE/WHITE 06= NOTHING 07= WHITE 08= GREY 09= ORANGE 10= GREEN/WHITE 11= YELLOW 12= NOTHING 13= RED 14= BROWN 15= BLACK I also found a BLACK/WHITE wire, but it does not appear to do anything. It does not lead to any of the holes. So- what if you have a 15-pin controller cable from something else? All you have to do is use a multi-tester to figure out which wire leads to which hole (if the multi-tester prong is too big to fit in the holes, just twist a bit of stiff wire to the prong). If, for example, in your cable the GOLD wire leads to Hole 7, then treat it as the WHITE wire listed above. If the SILVER wire leads to Hole 12, then it is of no use; seal it off. PART 4: THE JOYSTICK ITSELF. This part is in conjunction with the diagrams... As mentioned earlier, the 5200 joystick control is analog, not digital. In this case, the joystick actually turns two little variable resistors ("potentiometers"); one controls the vertical, the other, the horizontal. It is exactly like two tiny paddle controllers (a paddle controller IS a potentiometer). As you already know, when you play Pong, Breakout, Super Breakout, Arkanoid, Canyon Bomber, or any game with a paddle controller, there is a point when the paddle (or whatever) is centered. This is because the resistance is at the point when the video game puts the object in the middle. This is important: when you release a normal joystick, it is "centered" because the game is not receiving any input from it. In the case of a 5200 joystick, the stick is "centered" only because the values of the two potentiometers are such that the game knows not to do anything (e.g. "don't move the Humanoid in Berzerk"). Vertical: Low Resistance=UP; High Resistance=DOWN. Horizontal: Low Resistance=LEFT; High Resistance=Right. When you unplug the controller, you are completely breaking the circuit. Electricity cannot flow. This is the same thing as VERY VERY VERY high resistance; that's why the game acts as if you have jammed the joystick down and to the right. If there wasn't ANY resistance to these 2 currents, it would be as if you jammed the joystick up and left. Therefore, the "neutral" position is between the two extremes. Unfortunately, I cannot give you these values. My testing equipment is not precise enough to do it; this is why I hooked up the 2 potentiometers to my joystick set-up; I simply adjust them until they are both at the neutral value. These two potentiometers take the place of two "fixed" resistors. Just keep in mind that, once adjusted, THESE TWO POTENTIOMETERS ACT AS TWO FIXED RESISTORS THAT WOULD HAVE THE "NEUTRAL" VALUES! Therefore, as long as you do nothing, the 5200 is receiving the same two values you would get if you properly centered a 5200 controller. Nothing happens. What my controller does here is to alter that "neutral" value. Lessen if you want to up/left. Increase if you want to go down/right. At this point, I should explain two things about connecting resistors: "Series" and "Parallel." "Series" connection is when you connect two (or more) resistors end-to-end, much as you would do two batteries in a flashlight (resistors, luckily, do not have a polarity). When you do it this way, you simply add the resistances to get the total. So, connecting two 10 Ohm resistors end-to-end gives you a total resistance of 20 Ohms. Pretty much what you'd expect. "Parallel" connection is when you put two resistors right next to each other and, say, twist them together, as if you were twisting two garbage ties together to get one double-strength garbage tie. If you do this with two resistors, to find the resistance you end up with use this formula: (Resistor 1)X(Resistor 2) _____________________ (Resistor 1)+(Resistor 2) Helpful Hint: if they are of the same value, you simply cut the value in half. Two 10-Ohm resistors would become a 5 Ohm resistor. So- let's take those two 10-Ohm resistors and twist them together. What do you get? (10X10)/(10+10)= (100)/(20)=5! This is the heart of my 5200 Digital Joystick. When you pull down and/or to the right, you are ADDING (in my case) 235,000 Ohms to the Neutral value(s). It is a series connection. When you push up or to the left, you are creating a parallel connection (you obviously can do this without twisting the two resistors together!), which greatly LOWERS the resistance(s). Since I use 10-Ohm resistors for this, and the neutral value is very high (thousands), you end up with a value a bit less than 10 (try the formula and see what you get). There are 2 diagrams here. One shows the 2 separate circuits; the other, combined. Hmmm...guess you'll have to go to the original post, and scroll down. http://www.atariage.com/forums/index.php?s...=119395&hl=

Uh....duh.... Must be my age, or something, but...I can't find the homebrew store here. If one wants to buy something- and for me it'll next be 7800 Space Duel, CV Astro Invader, or CV Yi-Ar Kung Fu (guess you go to Opcode games for that one), where do you get the first two? I'm sorry if this is a dumb question, but I honestly don't know.

From what I can see so far- I cannot play it here, I'm afraid- it still looks great. It has that "essence" missing from the 5200 version. Apparently, programming on the 7800 is REALLY a hassle. That you've accomplished so much so far is beyond what 99.8% of 7800 users (or anyone) could do. And even fewer would dare try. That's what I like about homebrewers. Most of us would like to see new games for old systems, especially games that never came out but were supposed to (TEMPEST! SPECTAR!). Homebrewers actually make it happen. I myself clearly cannot make it happen for the CV, although I have homebrewed some interesting hardware. But games? Zip so far.

Sheesh- I can't believe the trouble I'm having finding the key component. I'd settle for a UniJunction Transistor (UJT), but no luck so far. And without such a component, this cannot work. The heart of the module works like this: Both fire buttons share the blue wire. It is only for the two fire buttons, nothing else. The gray and green are for the buttons, but they are also for other things. The blue wire is cut. You know that old trick of wiring a capacitor to a battery, with a variable resistor ("potentiometer") in the circuit? So the power levels and thus, voltage, slowly or quickly builds up? Well, one end of the battery is hooked up to the blue wire that goes to the controller. The other end is hooked up to (let's just go with one button for now) the green wire. In the module is that Battery/Capacitor/Potentiometer set-up. Power levels build up in the capacitor. When you push the fire button, a circuit is completed from the above set-up to another circuit, one that will only flow if a certain voltage is reached. If it has, current flows through a relay (with a coil and reed). THIS circuit has the blue wire going to the CV and connects to the green wire, with a diode (as in the controller) there. This duplicates an ordinary set up. To be able to fire again, the cycle must be completed again. Pushing the fire button will not let any current through until it does. Adjusting the potentiometer will speed up or slow down the rate at which you can fire. Connected to the same battery is an identical, independent set-up for the other fire button. There are two switches, so either one or both buttons can be affected (in a game such as Looping, only the fire button need be "slowed"). A UniJunction Transistor would no doubt work, but try to find an inexpensive one that triggers at only, say, 2.4 or even 3 Volts. This is my biggest stumbling block so far. By the way- the battery current will not flow into the CV. No battery current will flow except between the two poles, and there is no direct connection to the CV.

It's a general rule of business, which can be summed up in one phrase: "Don't touch my properties." Allow me to present a simple example to demonstrate the legal implications: 1) Individual A does a homebrew coin-op adaptation for a dead system (CV, Atari 2600, whatever) and asks the copyright-holding company ABC for permission to release it in small quantities, as long as no real profits are made from sales. 2) Company ABC welcomes the free publicity, and allows Individual A's homebrew to be published, for a small licensing fee, which Individual A is happy to pay. The licensing fee is calculated in relation to the number of copies produced, so for a small run, it's not too high. 3) Someone at company XYZ learns of the deal between Individual A and company ABC, and tries to get the same deal for the same game in company ABC's back catalog. Only this time it's for a current-generation gaming platform, and company XYZ wants to make it a wide release with potentially thousands of copies sold. Company ABC charges "regular" licensing fees, according to current industry practices, which cost a lot more. 4) Company XYZ later sues company ABC on the basis that Individual A paid much lower licensing fees for the exact same game, and claims this is unfair. The judge ignores the fact that Individual A's homebrew was made in small quatities for a dead gaming system, and rules in favor of company XYZ, forcing company ABC to charge lower licensing fees to company XYZ, and everyone else who may want to buy a license for the game. See the problem? Actual licensing realities are more complex than the example above, but the idea is that if a company starts granting various licenses at varying prices, then that company exposes itself to losing control over its rights to charge what it wants for said licenses. And that means loss of important profits. This was explained to me last year when I contacted Blue Planet Software in an effort to get permission to have Bruce Tomlin's ColecoVision port of The Black Onyx released in small quantities. Henk Rogers wasn't against the idea of a ColecoVision port, but this was incompatible with general business practices for his (or any other) company, and he couldn't allow it. Actually, I wasn't referring to piracy, but hassles. What I mean is this: Newcolopcode wants to program Snap Jack for the CV. He finds out who (if anyone) owns the rights to this game. Contact. O.K., now why would they not give him permission to do it, maybe asking a token $1.00 per sale? The game is so obscure, that they could only benefit by exposure. Permission was asked, and granted. The title screen displays that it is nice and legal. Just because he only has to pay a crummy one buck per game doesn't mean that if Microsoft does this for the X-Box 360 that (Snap Jack rights people) must also ask for a mere dollar from Microsoft. It seems like flexibility and common sense are things of the past. It reminds me of the joke that if a city has one lawyer, he'll be on food stamps, but if there are two, they'll be driven in limos to their mansions.

What would be interesting would be to see how many games for both consoles would look if the FULL ability of those consoles had been used properly. I don't even mean Opcode-levels. I mean; if the CV's 32K was enough for all screens in a game (as it obviously was for DK Jr.), what would they have been like? If so many 1983 games hadn't been rushed out? Even I managed to design a better-looking mushroom for CV Centipede. What if they got it right with Omega Race (even the Vic-20 did), and Space Fury? Victory? Mr. Do!? What would the 5200 Pac-Man have looked like? Joust? Vanguard?

I'm referring to the ColecoVision version. It was in color- pretty awful colors. And it had those borders that must go. It's the ColecoVision version I'm after. Since a character image is defined by a set of numbers, 0-255, My goal is only to change the appearences- nothing more. And to turn the borders black, so they can no longer be seen.

Is there any way to list this program and run it after any changes? Mine would be strictly visual. 1) Get rid of those two borders- In a C-64, you would change one number to get rid of the outer by making it black, and possibly make the inner black by changing the numbers for the color? 2) Redraw the ships to make them look more "vector." 3) CHANGE THE %#@*%&!! COLORS! Make player ships gold and red, enemy ships green or blue. 4) Make the triangles in the corners more "vector." To do this, I'd need to find out where in the program the shape-numbers are. Any hints? Thanks in advance. Note- the computers here can now run YouTube, so they are better than what I had to work with previously. Emulators might work now. Second Note: Guess this belonged here.

In a way, the whole question of licensing is curious. You could understand a game that is still a money-maker, or at least well known. If, by some weird miracle, I could program a good version of Mortal Kombat or Killer Instinct on a CV (the miracles being that I'd be able to get an emulator running, and that I'd program such a 1990s game...), there would be trouble. But what I could never understand are companies that would cause a homebrewer trouble over a game nobody ever really even heard of, even "back in the day." For example, we all know Space Invaders by Taito. But how many of you ever heard of Time Tunnel or Fitter? Go to KLOV website to see them. Even back in 1982, I saw these games in only one place- a small arcade in Goes, the Netherlands. After that, if not for the Internet, I would never have even seen them in any way. Period. And I've never heard of them being released on any Taito Collection. Why, then, would any company try to give a homebrewer any trouble for producing a home version of such games? They're not exactly making much money on them now, and the worst that can happen is that...people might actually find out that they exist. Anyone?