CV Gus

There is no question about which had the better controllers: The CV. They self-centered. The 5200 controllers were not reliable. Repairing them is a PAIN, even though I can solder the "ribbons," it's a hassle and a half. Hint- for the fire buttons, try gluing a bit of tin foil on those black discs. Works great on my paddle controller. Once I built that 5200 digital controller, the difference was night and day. I scored over 20,000 points in Berzerk, because I could make those quick, precise moves. Likewise Qix. And don't even get me started on Defender, Mario Bros., Blueprint, Wizard of WOR, etc... But, above all, was Coleco's decision to stick with a 9-pin port. You can use so many other kinds of controllers, including a Genesis controller. With a 5200, you can really only use ones made for a 5200. And those are NOT easy to find.

No, the CV does not have those games- although it does have Lord of the Dungeon*, which blows the doors off of Midnight Mutants. And back then it did have Alcazar, and gateway to Apshai. Front Line is close to Commando. Sirius? How about Cosmic Avenger and Zaxxon? And did the 7800 have Fortune Builder, Turbo, Pitstop, Oil's Well, Pepper 2, Bump `N Jump, etc.? True, the 7800 has those games, but you're overlooking the point of "in tune." Midnight Mutants was released when the 7800 was a lost cause and we were entering the 16-Bit era anyway. The vast majority of games for the 7800 were either already old and available for earlier systems (Ms. Pac Man, Robotron: 2084, etc.), or, in the case of Commando and Double Dragon, available for other systems with a much better selection, including then-relevant games. I also doubt that the CV and 5200 could not have done versions of those games that would just about equal those of the 7800. You can see that Joust for the CV, had it been completed, would easily have matched the 7800 version. Likewise Dig Dug. And even the pre-programmable systems (such as the Unisonic) had light gun games, so could the CV and 5200, if someone had decided to do it. And they would have at least almost equalled the 7800 ones (heck, as well as the NES ones...). You have to remember that, when deciding to "move up," your average gamer wants at least three things: 1) A selection of arcade games and genres relevant to THAT TIME. How well would the CV have done if the only games it offered were good translations of games that did not go past 1978? 2) Obvious technological improvement. Very much so, since arcade games were advancing quickly. The 7800 was good, but again, with skilled programming for either the CV or 5200, could not those two systems have stood up at leats as well to the NES? Look at Opcode games. 3) Trustworthiness and competence. Abandoning the 5200 so quickly and bumbling around by the Tramiels did not inspire much confidence. No, Atari was doomed in 1984. After that, with the Tramiels, it was like watching a cartoon character frantically flapping his arms to avoid falling off a cliff, but you know he'll go down any second. * Sirius is relatively recent, too. For the 7800.

An interesting footnote about games would be Joust, Pac-Man, and Dig Dug. It's obvious that, had they been 100% completed, esp. Joust, that they were better than the 5200 versions! As was Galaxian. Does this indicate that the CV was better than the 5200, and even Atari finally admitted it?

To sum it up: sheer stupidity and a lack of understanding of 5200 (or any console) fans. I've said this before and I'll say it again, as someone who was there at the time: 1) Atari introduced the 5200 AFTER the CV. So, it was late in 1982. They announced that they were going to dump it in early/early-mid 1984. Think about it this way: you buy a Playstation 2. It is NOT backwards compatable with the Playstation 1. So, you essentially are trusting Sony to support the P2. After less than 18 months, they tell you that they are going to abandon it in favor of a Playstation 3, tough luck on you. How would YOU feel about Sony, esp. if the 3 is not that much better than the 2, and most of the games were found on the 2 anyway? AND most of those weren't really much better anyway? 2) The 5200 never equalled the sales of the CV. You'd have to be both moronic and insane to dump a system that is finally really getting up some steam. Granted, then, that Atari was disappointed with 5200 sales. Were they expecting sales that reflected the immense success of the 2600? Times were different by then, and the CV's equivalent did not exist in 1978.. But is the answer to shaft 5200 owners and move up to a not-much better than the CV system (as Opcode, Matt Patrol, and others have proven)? No- you make better games for the 5200, like Millipede and Super Pac-Man were. Tempest. Others. The problem is technonerd thinking; people are less concerned with ohsupercoolnewTECHNOLOGY than being shafted by a company that thinks it can support a system for less than 18 months and then tell its customers "o.k., now WE are saying YOU must forget about the 5200 and move up to a 7800!" 3) To this day I have 1984 video game magazines commenting on the letters (this was before "e-mail" in any sense of the word today, mind you) they received from angry 5200 fans. They felt betrayed and abandoned. Look- you keep the existing system until it is clearly outclassed by the arcade scene (or other). Then, and only then, you must introduce a system that is VERY superior to the existing one. The leap from 5200 to 7800 was more like a hop. Nintendo did this with the NES. It's 1984. You have a 5200, and a number of games for it. Oh, lookee at what the 7800 has to offer: Robotron: 2084. Actually, the sound, explosions, and border are better on the 5200. The 7800 has the color green and smoother action, but it's not really much better, overall. Ms. Pac-Man. If you have the 5200 version, is there really a need to get the 7800 version? Centipede. Especially if you have the Trak-Ball, the 5200 version is better. Much more "like the arcade." Food Fight. What, the CV or 5200 couldn't have done this? Looks almost like an Activision 2600 game. Galaga. The CV version of Galaxian implies that it could've done nearly as good a job. Actually, that game is better... Xevious. Again, the 5200 prototype does indicate that... While the 7800 did have advantages, to be sure, it wasn't enough. I've rather grown to like the 5200 I found at a townwide garage sale circa 1997. It should have not been dumped the way it was in 1984. As for the 7800- they would have eventually had to have released it, but its abilities should then have been expanded for the later time. So it would have been MUCH better than the 5200.

Yes. It truly looks awful. What were they thinking? It's a pity, because the other aspects of the game- unlike Space Fury- are very good, especially with the options that are available. I have had some experience programming a Commodore Vic-20 and 64, so I understand the basics of constructing images (although the sprites on a CV are different- no more than 16X16 as opposed to 21X24). So if I can find those code numbers, I could make the changes, and HOPEFULLY try it out by running it on an emulator.

Is there any way to list this program and run it after any changes? Mine would be strictly visual. 1) Get rid of those two borders- In a C-64, you would change one number to get rid of the outer by making it black, and possibly make the inner black by changing the numbers for the color? 2) Redraw the ships to make them look more "vector." 3) CHANGE THE %#@*%&!! COLORS! Make player ships gold and red, enemy ships green or blue. 4) Make the triangles in the corners more "vector." To do this, I'd need to find out where in the program the shape-numbers are. Any hints? Thanks in advance. Note- the computers here can now run YouTube, so they are better than what I had to work with previously. Emulators might work now.

Well, so far, I've had absolutely no luck with games for anything, except a Commodore-64. But I have had some luck with hardware. So far, it's been: No-Battery Driving Module (hint- check out how the spinner on a Super Action Controller works...). Converting a regular controller to a four-button-type- with a flick of the switch. Paddle Controller for the 5200. And the ultimate so far: a Digital Controller for the 5200. Today, I managed to get two key components for my next and toughest project yet: A Slow Fire Module for the CV. What it (hopefully) will do is this: when you plug in a controller to it, and it into the CV, it can limit the rate of fire you are capable of. This is adjustable. Take Looping. The way to beat this game is to loop back once, shooting the missile there, and then align yourself with the green line and shoot as quickly as possible, accelerating in spurts. This way, you stay ahead of the balloons, but can shoot out the bricks and missiles all in one run. I like this game so much, I hate having beat it so easily. Since I cannot change the software, I decided to go about it with hardware. Since the module will slow the rate of fire, you cannot use that trick. This makes the game much harder (I've done this by deliberately firing more slowly). Essentially, it taps in to the controller wiring by "piggybacking" a current to a relay from a capacitor, starting with the blue wire, which is disconnected from the CV when the module is activated (a current from a battery will not go "into" the CV). It is actually a glorified version of those flashing light kits you used to see at Radio Shack. This should make Spectar, Mr. Do!'s Castle, and Tarzan tougher, too. Wish me luck. Now, if only the two Zener diodes would arrive.

Neither NES Donkey Kong nor NES Donkey Kong/DK Junior feature all 4 screens. Well, the standard versions do have all four screens for DK Jr. But I'm dead serious here- the game was for the regular NES, and it was complete. SOMEONE, SOMEWHERE, must also know of it. It even has intermissions. Since this was the only version I'd ever played on the NES, I was astonished to discover that it was unusual. Trust me, I know the difference. Besides, on the CV, there is a 4-screen version of DK Jr. on cartridge. I purchased it from ADAM's House some years ago. So why not a rare "super" version for the NES? As far as any version goes- you have to remember that a system's fullest abilities were rarely used. There was actually a five-screen version of Gorf for the CV, but the bean counters wanted the memory to be kept down. It was clearly the same with the NES, 7800, etc.

Coleco released a 2600 adapter for the ColecoVision, and I think a 2600 work-alike called the Gemini. They also- rather foolishly- released 2600 versions of a number of CV games for the 2600. To my knowledge, Coleco never itself released any versions for the 5200.

The 7800 version isn't that much worse than the NES version, except... Around 1997, a fellow ColecoVision fan's wife had an NES. An NES, NOT a Super NES. For it was a Donkey Kong/Donkey Kong Jr. cartridge. This one had all four screens, in arcade order, with intermissions. This was the only NES version I'd ever played. This was why, when I picked up an NES in 2000, I was surprised to find out that this was NOT the standard version. Could a similar 7800 version exist? By the way, I don't think 128K would be needed. The ColecoVision has a four-screen DK Jr., and it does not take nearly that much.

Some oddball games: Cosmic Alien. Astro Fighter. Fitter (strangest maze game ever). Jump Bug. Snap Jack. Pulsar. Major Havoc. Killer Comet.

Reading through these posts, a (probably ridiculous) question occurred to me... Aside from sound, are there things a ColecoVision can do better than the 7800?

By the way- UFOs stop appearing when there are 8 or less invaders. How does your version compare with Opcode's fantastic CV version? The only thing missing there is a slot to shove the quarters in! Think I'll play it as soon as I get home! Good luck and keep up the excellent work. You obviously know the Atari 7800.

This game was a serious letdown. Really. First of all, the game graphics were AWFUL. The colors and shapes were absolutely terrible. Reds, greens, and blues- like in the arcade game- were the way to go, not oranges, purples, and whites. The shells on your fighter were always cyan, no matter which you chose. Worse yet, the gameplay, never very complicated, was not reproduced. In the arcade version, complete aliens tumbled like an asteroid from Asteroids, but could shoot red fireballs. Incomplete aliens could not shoot, but would chase you like a guided missile. They became faster and faster, so you had to shoot them quickly. The CV version does NOT have this- they differ from complete aliens only in that they do not fire fireballs. You can beat this game simply by first allowing 3 incomplete aliens (the limit here is 3) onscreen- then shoot ONE of them. As a new one tries to form, shoot one or more segments. You will again have 3 incomplete aliens. Repeat above. Since they never get any faster and do not shoot, you can, with some practice, almost be assured of getting through the round.

I don't know why, but I'm always happy to see a new game for the 7800- the system that died from a terminal case of "Tramielitis." This version looks fine. From what I can see, it captures the "essence" of the arcade version, something the 5200 version didn't do. It's interesting to consider this: by the latter half og the 1980s, when we were in the NES era, the people most likely to purchase the 7800 were older gamers, like yours truly. Therefore, older arcade games were the best way to go. Imagine a 7800 version of Snap Jack or Jump Bug. Best to you.

Won't work here, I'm afraid. Any screenshots? How's Opcode?

Actually, you have a point. There were several things involved here... First and foremost, programming style. Opcode has proven that ability is just as important as a system's ability; compare his CV Pac-Man to even that of the NES. The 5200 games, overall, did have a more, well, "arcade" look about it. Compare 5200 Robotron to that of the 7800. The explosions on the 5200 are far better, and I like the fact that the 5200 has the border. Movement is smoother on the 7800 and it has the color green, but overall, I actually like the 5200 better. Not to mention sound. Likewise 5200 Centipede is just more like the arcade version than the 7800. Secondly, and this is probably more important for older gamers, was the game selection available at the time. The 5200 had games that were current, while the 7800, overall, did not. In the 5200's time Atari was big, a real powerhouse, with its arcade division and all. By the time the 7800 was "widely" released, it was the time of Nintendo, and Atari had been split up. This was significant: with the 5200, it was reasonable to expect "Atari" arcade games to appear on it. With the 7800, "Atari" arcade games were from an entirely different company. The 7800 had pitiful support. I never felt as though the Tramiels really gave a damn about us 7800 owners- the same could NOT be said for the 5200 owners. In short, overall, it was just better having a 5200 in its time than a 7800 in its time.

Looks good, and, more importantly, it's a sort of game not already there for the CV. Variety is good. The only thing I'd like to see is numbers with a different color than the grid. Makes it easier to see. Nice going!

Should have mentioned this before- I did NOT use that "extra five balls" option for that score.

I would like to purchase Yi-Ar Kung Fu for the ColecoVision. I would pay by mailing in a money order. How much do you send and to what address? Thanks.

Don't forget that Atari 2600 compatibility was not nearly as significant during the NES era as it was back in the days of the 5200/ColecoVision. I know how much things had changed in those years- I was there. The Atari 5200 was abandoned by Atari itself in 1984. The ColecoVision continued on, one way or the other, after 1984. It had a loyal base of three to six million. It lasted into the NES era- somewhat. Which was more than the 5200 could claim. Stores still had games for it on proper display through 1986 where I was- even into 1987. If someone had decided to get the rights to the ColecoVision in say, 1985, and release some MSX games for it- as Opcode has done with Yi-Ar Kung Fu and the splendid Sky Jaguar- we would've gobbled them up. Add in Lord of the Dungeon, and more RPGs, as well as some side-scrollers like Nemesis, or whatever, and the fact that the CV was established and popular would've given it a better chance than the 7800. Esp. since the 7800 was not that much better than a CV, and the CV had better sound. Ultimately- 1) The 7800 was released too late, 2) The initial batch of games were mostly rehashes, several of which were there are coming for the NES (Xevious, Joust, Galaga...), 3) There was no R&D to speak of, 4) The Tramiels were CHEAPSKATES!!!!!!!!!! :x :x :x :x 5) People still felt betrayed by the 5200 fiasco, 6) Nintendo had grabbed up the arcade rights by then. 7) Yes, there's more, but I don't have all day. You get the idea. By the 1990s, Atari-Tramiel had such a bad reputation, the Jaguar was doomed, too.

Double Breakout: 2105 There's a sneaky, but legal, trick you can try: When you only have a couple of bricks left, especially no "fast ball" bricks, lose the current turn on purpose. If you are lucky, when both new balls are in play and you get those last bricks, the new wall will appear while one of them is above it- it will trash most of the wall (esp. the fast ball bricks!) before you have much to worry about with the one you are deflecting, and your score will soar since two are in play.

Only being familiar with Commodore computers, I was able to achieve a "vector look" with letters and numbers on a game called "Vecktar" simply by using the custom characters trick- the computer read character shapes from a secured RAM location instead of the usual ROM location. It wasn't at all complicated on the C-64- but I assume it is on an Atari? How does it work (please keep it simple for this "Atari Challenged!")? I'm just trying to get an idea of what's going on here. You just program the game however you want!

Simple. Jack bought the company and he wanted to make computers to squash Commodore. He didn't want to make game systems. He only went back to game systems when he realized he could never compete with the asia PC market. Allan But then what made him think that he could possibly compete with the Asian console market? If computers were a dead end, then it must have been obvious to a dead trout that the NES was at that point invincible. It would've made more sense to try and make whatever deals were necessary to bring back the ColecoVision and put it up against the NES and SMS, rather than the trying it with the 7800, which at the beginning had no base, just mostly rehashes, and was not really much better than a ColecoVision. Joust certainly illustrates this, and you know the sound was better on the CV! Hell, if they could have gotten Sky Jaguar, Xanac, Yi-Ar Kung Fu, the Nemesis games, and Lord of the Dungeon out in 1986, then it might have worked. But not long after I bought an Atari 7800 in 1988, I could see that the whole thing was doomed to failure. I just don't get it. Didn't the Tramiels have any real business plan? Did they think they could be so cheap on R&D, and match the NES? So cheap on EVERYTHING? Were they just trying to make a few dollars off of people like me? If so, then all they managed to do was ruin their reputations completely, which may be one of the biggest reasons the Jaguar didn't make it in 1993/1994, even. Look- if you really try, and it's obvious, you will at least have people's trust; you don't think they're saps. The Tramiels should either have gone in guns blazing no later than early-early 1986 (again, I never saw a 7800 in stores until 1988- in a populated and more affluent area), and have really TRIED. Then...who knows? Then again, maybe my CV idea was better. With the Tramiels controlling the fate of the 7800, the Odyssey2 would've had a better chance...

(Twice Upon A Time?) So far, it looks promising. I especially like the way you are trying to keep the vector look; CV Space Fury and Omega Race were graphics disasters, although Star Trek was good. Tempest was one of those games that NEEDED a home version. It was really stupid of Atari not to release one, esp. for the 5200 (could they have done so for the 7800, or was the game the property of Atari Games?). Out of curiosity- how would a CV version look? Keep it up. The 5200 homebrew library is finally becoming something to look out for.