CV Gus

Well, it's been a while... Some time ago, I posted some info on two kinds of adapters that would let you use almost any 9-pin controller with a 5200. After considering my financial situation and other practical factors, I'm going to just build the battry-powered version. This one has the overwhelming advantage of using nearly any 9-pin controller, even a CV! It will also allow use of the paddle controller. Only one button function (a problem with Pole Position), but it is also passive at that point. I'm also thinking of a special add-on that will allow two-button function on even a one-button controller. So far, the biggest problem is with the 7800 controller buttons. But that is minor. It may also allow better use of the 5200 light gun!

I found my 5200 at one of those town-wide flea markets. I saw it on Saturday or Friday, but didn't actually get it until late Sunday afternoon. By then, they were willing to sell it and its games- including Baseball, Football, Defender, Berzerk, Qix (those last three were the main reasons I bought it), Robotron: 2084, Star Raiders, Pac-Man, Ms. Pac-Man, and Centipede- for $10.00. Naturally, it didn't work. Port 1 was broken, and I did not have my current abilities. So, time passed- finally, I was able to cross-wire Port 1 into Port 2. This worked- it was fantastic, pressing a number key, and hearing the voice in Berzerk- but the controllers had to be readjusted, in games like Robotron: 2084 you couldn't move without firing in that direction, and simultaneous two-player games were out (not a big deal), as was normal firing in Space Dungeon. This was how it went for several years. In fact, it didn't change until early this year. Then, and only then, was I able to repair Port1 AND Port 2. It was much more fun once I built a digital controller. Super Breakout was great with a paddle controller. And you people thought that because I like the CV, I didn't care about the 5200. Congratulations on your find. 5200s are not easily found in the wild.

It no doubt will. Any early screenshots?

In no order, the games I know: Berzerk. With the voice, it is the arcade version. Robotron: 2084. I prefer it to the 7800 version. It just works. Star Raiders. If only the CV had a game like this. Qix. Incredible. Just like the game in the store, so long ago... Defender. Another winner. Centipede. With the trakball, incredible. I like it better than the 7800 version. Super Pac-Man. Superb! Pengo. Weird...but shows what a 5200 could do. Space Dungeon. One of those games I never played before the 5200 version. Super Breakout. Only with paddle controllers.

The best home version is Opcode's CV Pac-Man Collection. Not only are the sounds and graphics superb, but the ghosts act as they did in the arcade- this includes the subtle things, like the orange ghost avoiding you for the most part, and the pink (well, purple here) ghost turning based on which way you are facing. You get Ms. Pac-Man and Pac-Man Plus, too. That said, I have the Plug `n Play version of Pac-Man, and quite frankly, there's just something better about the 5200 version. Maybe you should include the 5200 version, since the controllers are bound to cause some funny comments. If you have Super Pac-Man for the 5200, controllers or no controllers, don't hesitate to include it. It was always my favorite of the original four!

Well, this has to be said for Best Electronics: they move fast. I sent the money order out to them last week Wednesday; I received the 6 plugs, 1 cable, and 2 potentiometers (with rings) on Monday. Needless to say, that night I started desoldering/soldering away. I need some new equipment and parts for the soldering iron, but still the job got done. Both ports 1 and 2 have new plugs. Port 3 has the broken one still; I won't replace it. Port 4 has a new one, but that was just sort of "put in" there without soldering; it is just there as a convenient spare. Why not bother with 3 and 4? Even the operator at Best Electronics said I should just use the plugs from there to fix the 5200 (he did not know it just had the one good one); after all, what use are 3 and 4, aside from Super Breakout- and how often will THAT ever be useful? But keep in mind that this is the first time, since I found the thing in 1998, that it has the two fully funtional plugs. Originally, I'd just wired plug 2 into plug one, so two people could play, too- one at a time- otherwise, you'd control two players at once (like Mario Bros. and Wizard of Wor). Then, I moved it to port one. Now, it functions properly. So, now I can play Robotron: 2084 with two controllers, if I want to- likewise, Space Dungeon, if I can ever find it (cheap).

I tried that, too- no luck. My 2000 catalog, sad to say, is HOPELESSLY outdated- I kept it for the part #. If you know where I can get a SPDT or even a DPDT switch, or just a NC switch, any of it will do. But it must be a relay that will switch from one to the other when a small current is passed through the coil.

I need to order at least two Normally CLOSED relay switches. Radio Shack no longer has them, I'm afraid. I need them to complete my latest 5200 project. Can anyone here recommend a place where I can get them? They must be low voltage, by the way- the lower the better. Thanks.

I usually use my digital controller. I'll just stick with replacing the port plug itself. Might as well get it right, since I'll just install one for Player 2, too- that way, one can also play Robotron: 2084 and Space Dungeon properly. Hey, maybe I'll just install all four.

If there is an MSX game that is the equivalent of B-17 Bomber or Star Raiders, that would be good- the CV does not have a decent first-person shooter of that sort. Dambusters is too flawed.

I'm afraid my projects are on hold for the time being. For one thing, Radio Shack is not what it was, and I have to find and order things on-line. For example, my "active" 9-Pin to 5200 module- that also allowed use of paddle controllers for games like Super Breakout, right down to the paddle FIRE button working for the 5200 (passively, no less), has stalled because I need two Normally Closed relay switches- guess what I can't get around here, unlike some years ago? Since the only port on my 5200 is broken, I might as well order a 15-wire/pin cable from the same place as ports. (The problem with the "passive" design was twofold: if a controller did not have "perfect" or near-perfect contacts, control was unstable, and it did not work with CV controllers, since the common for a 5200 is negative and the common for a CV positive, and CV controllers use diodes. So I'm going to first build the "active" module.)

As you know, a while back my 5200 wasn't working. Everything worked, except for movement- the directional controls weren't working. Judging by what was wrong, and by checking the schematic, I'd guessed that it was the POKEY chip. So- I ordered one. It came. I took the metal plate out of the 5200- took out the old chip, put in the new, and tried Missile Command. It worked. So- I had to drill little holes on the metal plates and use tiny nits and bolts to put it all back in (the tabs were broken off). Nifty! BUT...... Just about a week ago, one of the pins in the console's port #1- the only working one- broke. Oh, you've guessed which one if you know about these things, haven't you? Pin 9. The common for the directional circuits. So the directional controls do not work. But everything else does. "The more things change, the more they stay the same..."

C'mon! You had me going there, ready to believe you, but 27,000 in Berzerk? That can't be real. Was this just an early April Fool's Day gag? No, it was quite real, and yes, it was on an actual 5200- not long after I fixed it by replacing the POKEY chip. I used my digital controller. I have beaten 20,000 in Berzerk four times total, including that one. Usually, I average somewhere around 15, 16 thousand. Wizard of Wor: Once you get past that "vertical lines" board, it is fairly easy to get a much higher score, since not only does the difficulty return to the first level, but you can earn those extra lives. I've done this more than once, so it was not a glitch.

Berzerk. When I first got my 5200 from a town-wide garage sale back in 1998, it didn't work. I had to wire Port 1 to Port 2- as I was tinkering away (I wasn't as skilled back then), FINALLY, I got the thing to speak. It worked! And this game is just so much like the arcade, in spite of the minor differences. It just is. Defender. Not as tough as the arcade, but great. Pac-Man and Ms. Pac-Man. Neither is as good as Opcode's CV versions, but these versions are actually an interesting difference. Plus- they're just fun. Blueprint. Sure, it depends too much on luck and the machine is too stiff and clumsy, but this obscure arcade game is mine to play. Unusually detailed for a 5200 game. Qix. Another obscure game from so long ago, this one IS Qix. Flawless, and with the options, even more fun to play. Robotron: 2084. Yes, it's missing the color GREEN, but it's a blast to play. 5200 owners must have been really happy with it back in 1983. Super Breakout. A stupid pack-in game, but in 2010, not really a direct issue beyond "what if" discussions. If you have paddles for it, this 1970s classic is fun. Centipede. You need the trak-ball. If you have it, then this is better than the 7800 version. Why did the CV version have to look so crummy? Pengo. Showed that the 5200 could handle cute games nicely. Space Dungeon. The CV wasn't the only one that boasted obscure games. Super Pac-Man. Why, Atari, didn't you stick with the 5200 and release this one? Ease of chip removal. No desoldering/soldering needed. I like the 5200 better than the 7800.

370,160. I managed this the other night, and noticed something strange- once past Dungeon 21, the one after the Worlord Dungeon with the vertical lines only- the game resets to the first level of difficulty. Except for lives remaining and score, it is as if you just started the game. You even get those bonus lives again, as if you are just starting. That same night I broke 27,000 points in Berzerk!

You seriously didn't know the 5200 was just a consolized Atari 8-bit computer? There are hundreds of videos on YouTube showing what this hardware is capable of. Just look up Yoomp, or Koronis Rift, or Alternate Reality, or Numen, or Drunk Chessoard, or Mercenary, or Encounter, or so on and so forth. Of course I knew that the 5200 was a variation of an Atari (400? 800?) computer- this has been explained since 1982. But it is NOT one exactly. For example, memory limitations. A computer can get/dump more information as it needs it via the cassette drive or disc drive; so theoretically even the earliest computer games could be of any size (Time Zone was on six discs). So what was the 5200 capable of doing within its memory limits? How hard or easy was it to add memory to the cartridge if need be? Those clips were terrific, but if that took up all of the 5200's memory, or any decent-sized game would need much more with those visuals, then there's a problem.

Now, CrazyAce and DracIsBack just helped answer my question. I don't know how much memory expansion would've been required or what it would have entailed, but those clips were amazing. Especially the multi-plane scrolling in that last one. THIS is what I've been talking about all of this time, for a few years now. We've seen what a CV was actually capable of, and now what a 5200 could do. The multi-plane scrolling from both is quite good. As is the on-screen action. So if the CV and 5200 had not been orphaned and dumped, if both had been allowed to benefit from the "learning curve," imagine how much longer they'd've lasted. There would have been NO WAY the NES could've taken the USA by storm the way it did; it did so because there was a void there. But against such systems, with established bases? NO WAY. We see hints, though. Lord of the Dungeon for the CV; such RPGs, so popular on home consoles during the NES/SMS era, were quite do-able for both. As were others (Escape from the Mindmaster on the CV, for example). Ballblazer on the 5200. And now, those clips. They were huge helps, and I thank you both. Any others? I'd like to see them!

I could have all five of what I listed, and more- like others have mentioned- if there was just the ONE thing the Atari 5200 had had: INTELLIGENT PEOPLE IN CHARGE OF ATARI AND WARNER COMMUNICATIONS!! Bonus: no 2600 E.T.!

Man, oh man... After seeing Opcode's games for the CV, and Newcoleco's fantastic Ghostblaster, I just wanted to know what a 5200 was actually capable of. It only had an effective life of about 18 months, so it's not as if it had a chance to "grow" the way the 2600 and NES did... For example, can anyone here do working images or videos of a better-looking Pac-Man, Joust, and Missile Command, or Vanguard? A later game, perhaps? Operation Wolf, or a Street Fighter-style game, KLAX, or the like? The CV has Yi-Ar Kung Fu, so what would the 5200 have? Gun games are quite possible for both. That's all I wanted to know. And don't any of you here forget all of the effort and the money (o.k., just $17.00, but right now that's something...) I went through to get my 5200 working again; most people might have just scrapped it. So just because I prefer a CV doesn't mean I don't like the 5200.

For all the stupid things Warner Atari [and Tramiel Atari after that] did, I wouldn't count that one. There was concern for the 5200 owners; Atari planned a 7800 adapter for them. The 7800 was meant to save Atari in the video game field. If it was cheaper to build and yet still more powerful - except for sound - than the 5200, then why would Atari continue to pump out the 5200 which natively lacked compatibility with Atari's most successful product [the 2600]? Far too many 2600 owners had already jumped to the CV because the CV had the 2600 adapter out first before Atari could do the same for the 5200; Atari didn't need to bleed more of those owners. Plus, going with the 7800 would've silenced any of the remaining bickering from the computer division continuing to complain that the 5200 was cannibalizing sales of the XL computers. It was only because the release of the 7800 got held up - for various reasons - over 2 years which led many of the remaining 2600 owners to jump ship to the NES. Had Warner Atari remained en-tact and gave a full push for the 7800 in 84/85, the NES would not have been a success. And with Coleco and Intellivision for all intents and purposes dead, Atari would've had the remnants of the industry all to itself. However, since the 7800 got held up until 1986, I really would've liked to see what the console could've done had Atari Corp. bumped up its memory to 16k/32k/48k/64k and popped in a worthy sound chip such as the POKEY, Dual POKEYs, or even the AMY. As it stands, the NES was not more powerful than the 7800 except for the ability to move the background easily and the standard sound being better. The NES memory was weak. What I do not understand was the lack of complaints from the Atari 8-bit computer owners in not demanding that the MARIA chip not being offered as an upgrade to their computers. I cannot recall any articles in any of the magazines about that. I do remember bickering from 8-bit and ST owners in the AMY chip not being finished at the time, but then again, maybe that was from people at user's group meetings and on certain BBSes. Maybe there was some on Compuserve, Delphi, or GEnie, but I never had memberships so I cannot comment on that... You are only looking at it from the Atari perspective. Again, remember that the 5200 was only released less than 18 months before they decided to dump it. What had changed so much in just 18 months that they just HAD to do it? Didn't they see it wouldn't work in 1982? Was it a bad idea after all? If so, then the CV must have REALLY pounded the 5200 in sales; did it? When Atari released the 5200, they were committed. That was it. To have dumped it so soon was to betray the TRUST- and that is the thing here- the TRUST of their customers. Back in 1984, Atari 5200 owners felt abandoned and betrayed by Atari. They had lost much of the trust. This would be a millstone around the 7800's neck, because people would wonder if Atari was going to dump that, too. But again, Fate forced Atari's hand in 1982. The CV was coming out, and the 2600 was inferior to it; if Atari wanted to try and win that generation of gaming, they had to have something, and even late 1983 would have been too late (even the head start the CV got on the 5200 gave it an edge the 5200 never overcame). So- the 5200. And that was it. They'd made their move. But when they decided it wasn't a good one, they wanted to, in effect, take it back. Only consumers didn't want to play anymore. And who could blame them? Atari shafted too many people even by then. Atari's only chance was to stick it out with the 5200, and possibly, in the meantime, strengthen the 7800 prototype, so when it would eventually be released, it would be better able to handle what was out there by then. And although Coleco itself was gone, someone else carried on with the CV, don't forget. This was why it was being advertised AFTER 1984, even. Look- I know the 7800 had technical advantages over the 5200. But does this apply in ALL areas, or only certain ones? In either case, then by how much? And, aside from sound, did the 5200 have any advantages? Was it easier to program? If so, then practical business considerations come into play here- just as if the CV could do smooth scrolling, but it would take too much more work and time, then schedules and budgets might make it prohibitive. You also have to look at all of this from the perspective of 1984, since that was a key year in all of this. Overall, it just seems as though games on the 5200 are more vibrant, and I prefer it over the 7800.

Hardly. One reason is the fact that it was stupid decisions- from the deregulation frenzy of the Reagan Years to Coleco ruining themselves with the ADAM computer, right through Atari's own boneheaded decisions- that has put us all in the mess that we are in in 2010. The financial meltdown, Bernie Madoff, the ruined industries- did not happen within the past two or three years; it has been decades in the making. But why? Since this is an Atari forum, what better example to analyze than what happened to Atari? It is a perfect example of what happened overall. Think about what happened: 1) Atari showed no concern for 5200 owners- their customers- by just dumping the 5200. Really, did any 5200 owner ask them to do that, or did Atari in effect tell its customers what they wanted? AND- what they were going to get, whether they wanted it or not. In the Dilbert comics, deciding what customers want by asking marketing "experts" is called a "one-off" activity, which can doom a company. Scott Adams could have been writing about 1984 Atari. 2) They were going to release the 7800 with games mostly that had already appeared on the 2600, the 5200, and their computers. The 7800 being inferior in at least one important aspect: sound. I will not get into the Tramiel Era, since that is just too pathetic. How do we know how the Atari 5200 could have handled games like Alien Brigade and the like? Did they ever try? Has anyone? The point is this: if in fact the 7800 is not as superior to the 5200 as many thought (myself included- GroovyBee, what kind of version of Sirius do you think the 5200 could have done? A good one? Do you have any "samples" of what the 5200 could do?), then that decision made back then was even more ridiculous than I believed. But without a professional comparison, comparing their overall strengths and weaknesses, how can I know? That is why I'm asking. As for the CV- it seems as thought the 5200 and CV are more or less on equal footing, with games like Ghostblaster illustrating what the CV could do- therefore, couldn't the 5200 do something very much like that? But since I know of no such 5200 games, I have to bring up CV versions.

Maybe- except that he's not the first one to suggest this. Remember the "Sirius" example used here a while back? Just how much effort does extensive backgrounds take from a 7800- even if it does redraw things automatically? And what if you want to change something in the background?

1) TEMPEST! And an RPG or two ("games"). 2) Digital controllers. 3) A sort of module to allow use of 2600 paddle controllers. Simple enough to build. 4) A Y-Plug with switches to allow one to plug in two controllers (you only had to kill the common directional control circuit; everything else was digital). 5) A light gun, possibly? And did I mention Tempest?