CV Gus
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Posts posted by CV Gus
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No.
There are a number that have not interested me, though. For example, a few years ago, I was given a broken Sega Genesis. I managed to get it working, but not long after I gave it back. The 16-Bit era really did nothing for me.
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Yes, it was a 1983 NAP (War Room) game, by a Mr. Battenberg. It was mentioned in one of my old magazines- Video games Player/Computer Games magazine- as "Caverns," or "Creatures and Caverns."
But there are people who do not believe that there was such a game for a CV, or any old system, from those days (most people believe it started with the NES era). These photos should help prove it, as well as showing others what the game actually looks like.
I also promised o2williams some images a while back, but the C-64 had broken down. I'd like for him to have some images for his website.
Have you ever managed to defeat the Titans? So far, they wiped me out every time.
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You've heard of it- and there are some who think it's just a myth...but here are actual photos of the battery-backed 1983 CV cartridge!
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Please excuse the clumsy way this was done; I'd just obtained a digital camera a few days ago, and this is the first time I've ever tried to upload images from one to a website. Right now, I'm trying to learn this without instructions.
The two pictures on the left show the switch used to shift gears on Pole Position. The third is the CV controller with a two button/four button option; the small switch is used to toggle between the two. This controller is great for playing Front Line and Rocky Boxing, and you can use the alternate setting for Spy Hunter.
And on the far right is my 5200. Still haven't found replacement plugs for it, so only controller port one works. And even that took quite a bit of effort. This is here so certain people know that I actually have one, and have put quite a bit of effort into it- such as posting the tech specs and diagrams for the digital controller.
Until my module (9-pin-to-5200) is fully constructed, I'll withhold those images. Sort of a contribution to classic gaming.
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Here are some of the things I've built so far:
On the left is that digital 5200 controller. On the right is the 5200 paddle controller.
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You all missed the point.
The point was that comparisons are largely pointless. You'll do who-knows-how-many hours of research, learn everything possible, organize it nicely, set it all up, the ultimate comparison- and it can be for anything, right up to the two most recent systems in existence...
And then something will come up that'll completely throw it all off.
So is there even any point in a "definitive" comparison? No matter how objective?
And how "next generation" is a system as opposed to its predecessor? It seems as though even the manufacturers don't know what they have!
Therefore, are companies putting money, effort, and resources into next-generation systems too soon?
What brought this to mind also was that last Saturday they had an electronics recycling day. You brought your old stuff down to the town garage so the area solid waste authority could take it all away. It started at 8:00 A.M.; I got there no later than about 9:30. But by then there was this BIG, BIG pile of stuff, even though I live in a sparcely populated area, and most people probably hadn't even heard of this effort in any case.
If, rather than rushing to put out a new generation of (whatever), companies worked on what was out there, there would be a good deal less trash to worry about.
So you kindly go away, marc, until you get it.
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Over the years, there have been many such topics; here, of course, it was and will likely be the CV vs. the 5200.
There is an extensive comparison over at AGH, but there is a problem with all of this: time.
Recently, newcoleco released a game called "Ghostblasters." You can see it at YouTube, but the video does not do it justice. What I am talking about is the unbelievable scrolling, in all directions, here. I actually contacted newcoleco to ask if this cartridge used added-on chips. It doesn't.
The scrolling in this game, which is multi-plane, is beyond anything which even I never thought possible. It makes almost makes Nova Blast and Matt Patrol look like Time Pilot.
So- what does this mean?
You clearly cannot ever compare two systems properly, because you do not know what a system can really do. The CV has scrolling which looks nearly the equal of even the NES, if this is any example.
Therefore, the last CV vs. 5200 comparison is not valid, since it did not take this into account.
So- who knows what the 7800 was ultimately capable of? The Intellivision? The 5200, or the first Playstation? Only homebrewers will ever really know, evidently, and even that will take time.
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In other words, it was a cheaper way of doing it. If so, that would be typical.
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Measure the voltage with the adapter plugged into the console. It should drop to 9v or so.
I did. But it doesn't answer the question as to why it's that high in the first place.
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What I mean is, why 14V? Why go that high; that's more than 50% higher than the needed 9V. Especially since things usually take a "jump" or "spike" when first plugged in. Why not 10V, or maybe 10 1/2V?
I've run a 7800 off of a 12V battery, using an adapter that brings down the voltage to 9V DC (well, o.k., more like 10V...), without any trouble ever. So 14V seems unnecessary.
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It's a good one from 1988, so I must make prongs for the smaller circuits used today- like in a DVD player. It has quite a few functions, and can measure up to 10 Amps, too.
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With that "new" multitester, I measured the output from the 7800 adapter.
It was 14V!
I checked with the old analog one, and it came out the same- 14V DC.
Why is this? When I run it off of a 12V battery I use the 9V setting on the adapter. That works.
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Choplifter. Too damn hard.
Dark Chambers. Beautiful game, but boring. The characters all move and attack in the same manner. Yawn.
Centipede. No, it's not BAD, but why is the 5200 version so much more like the arcade version?
Good Games: Joust, Dig Dug, Asteroids, Xevious, Robotron: 2084 (although I prefer the 5200 version), Ms. Pac-Man (again, in some ways, I prefer the 5200 version), Tower Toppler, Desert Falcon.
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Well, well!
Last week, at a garage sale, I found a digital multitester- from 1988- for only $10.00.
It works fine.
It has many options, including the ability to test continuity by using sound (so you don't have to look back and forth).
It also has the ability to read resistances. This is typical, but this is the first time I can actually do so with any real accuracy- a problem, many of you will recall from my earlier posts, that I had when building those 5200 controllers.
Hopefully now, since at least some of the guesswork can be eliminated, I can carry on some projects with greater speed now.
Strangely enough, if I become proficient in anything, it'll be with accessories (e.g. 7800 controller-5200 games system mini-modules, 5200 lightgun, etc.) and repairs.
One interesting thing- according to it, both a 5200 and CV take about 7* watts even when switched off. This is probably because they use transformers. Lamps and old televisions have a "kill switch," so they do not.
* Or maybe I'm thinking of something else, but they do use power.
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I'd keep the module relatively simple. You've already explained the part about the RAM needed for some games, so a CV add-on module would need that, plus extra "regular" memory?
The A/V ability might be a good idea, since I've seen televisions without regular RF input, or at least not easy. In this post-anaolg tv age, that might be more and more of a problem.
So- a plug-in, with the ability to play old CV games, A/V, extra memory, and RAM? If it could also boost the number of sprites/line/no flicker to 8, that would be nice.
For a version of DK like that, I'd buy it. But to be honest, if it's expensive, I could not, at least not for the forseeable future around here.
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Heyyyyy...just what could the 5200 have done with games like Pac-Man and Dig Dug? How much better could they have been?
Didn't get an answer before.
As for the 7800 sales- sorry, but the NES crushed it. The CV did NOT annihilate the 5200; the CV simply outsold it, but it was not by as insane a margin as the NES vs. the 7800.
Keep in mind that the 5200 was out when Atari was one big company, and had a decent reputation still- by the time the 7800 came out, Atari was split up and not-so-good joke. So no way did the 7800 outdo the 5200. 5200 figures, like for the CV were typically about the USA; for the 7800, Atari probably considered ALL sales, including European sales.
Maybe this is where the confusion about the CV 3-6 million sales comes from- Maybe some people were considering USA sales, while others were including overseas sales?
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I've said this before, and I'll say it again- Atari NEVER should've dumped the 5200 the way they did.
It does not matter if the 7800 was to have been their next system- once they released the 5200, then they were committed. They should have stuck with it, even if it meant abandoning the entire 7800 project as it was at that point. Remember, the decision to drop the 5200 happened BEFORE the crash, so that had nothing to do with it.
The only logical explanation is that they were disappointed by the 5200's performance against the CV, so they decided to try the 7800 against it- because at that point, the NES was not here, so the CV was the only system they would have figured that they'd be up against. But this was ridiculous: they only angered the 5200 owners, and the first, and vital, batch of 7800 games weren't going to sway CV owners from the CV- it didn't work for the 5200, and on top of that, we'd have been as distrustful of Atari as the abandoned 5200 owners.
Add this into the mixture- Atarisoft Galaxian, Joust, Dig Dug, and Pac-Man for the CV were all SUPERIOR versions to the 5200 ones! Since Joust and Dig Dug for the CV would have been so great, and two of the better-known games for the 7800's release were to have been Joust and Dig Dug- and Galaxian (CV) was more like the arcade version than Galaga for the 7800, and Pac-Man could've countered the 7800 Ms. Pac-Man- those Atarisoft games could only have hurt the 7800's sales.
What was going on with that company back then?
Again, I like the 5200 and its games better than the 7800 and its games, although Dig Dug is better on the 7800.
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You mean that this is to be "emulated," like the Pac-Man games?
The extra RAM cannot be added via the cartridge?
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I guess what I meant was, what part(s) of what that demo showed couldn't be done on a Megacart? If there was to be no module, then what would DK be like?
Please keep it in layman terms. My only area of "expertise" is with controllers and such. Such as it is.
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What do you mean by "DKA?"
I'm thinking of the 4-screen version of DKJr., which I have for the CV on cartridge. It cannot be more than the usual 32K ROM, but, although rough around the edges, it is complete. You said that DK version is on a Megacart; if it works, then why woiuld extra RAM be needed?
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My vote would be for a module you can plug into a CV- like the Atari 2600 module- that could still play regulay CV games. It would add memory, less flickering (maybe?), and possibly the use of analog controllers.
But why not just stick to those super CV games? If DK and DKJr. can be done on a megacart as in those YouTube demos, then why not do it that way? Isn't a module supposed to be for games that cannot really be done on a parent console?
Just my one farthing...
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Well, then that's one thing the module could take care of!
Would it also make such "super games" less expensive, since all of the necessary enhancements would be in the module, not each and every cartridge- so it would be less expensive after buying several such games?
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It would seem as though a trap is that anyone smart enough to build such a thing will "...just want to add this..." on and on.
Just what do people want in such a module?
1) Extra memory...but can't you do that already, as with Pac-Man Collection? So this would have to go beyond even that- say, 512K?
2) Less flickering?
3) More colors?
4) A/V outputs?
5) Voice synthesis? Note- rumor has it that Kevin Horton has done this without anything but a regualr CV to work with.
6) Auto-smooth scrolling? But what about the 2 colors/8-pixel line/character space limit?
7) Extra sound capacity?
Analog control ability?What combo? Just one? All eight?
Some things never change: the more you're going to want, the more it will take- in time, in effort, in hardware (and thus...), IN PRICE.
Opcode, just what is possible with an unexpanded CV? Could you do that fantastic DK version if you use a Megacart the way you did for the PMC? The latter was something nobody thought could be done on a CV- well, maybe a half-dozen other people or so. But you actually did it.
I would assume that this module is for games that even a Megacart cannot properly handle, for whatever reason.
The only thing I can suggest is that the module merely expands what a CV can do, while still keeping it a CV. Extra memory (beyond what a Megacart can really do), less flickering, and analog control (although such would be of limited use) would be such a module.
But- the final decision is yours. How many of us here could even design such a thing?
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It is highly unlikely that the 7800 outsold the CV. In fact, I'd bet my next paycheck that it outsold neither the CV NOR the 5200.
You have to remember that when speaking of CV and 5200 sales, the figures usually given pertained to American (USA) sales. But there was a comment one video game magazine from the 7800 era mentioned: that the 7800 was selling best in Europe (according to Atari). So if the 7800 did sell as many as the figure given above, it was likely the COMBINED sales of here and abroad. It was similar to the Jaguar being a 64-bit system- it was, if you based it on the data bus (which only Atari did). It was all hocus-pocus. The 7800 did not even outsell the SMS.
What happened to the 5200 I already mentioned above. But, for the 7800, it was even worse, although similar: The NES had a head start on it- as did the CV over the 5200.
But while the 5200 had the advantage of Atari still being one company- and this included its arcade division, which was vital (Tempest, etc.), the 7800 did not- Atari was now split into two. Atari was hurt by the way it had abandoned the 5200 (few trusted them not to do the same for the 7800), almost all of the strong third party companies had put their best into the NES and maybe the SMS, you could not count on "Atari" arcade games being made into 7800 versions (unlike the 2600 and 5200), and, worst of all...the Tramiels, who couldn't sell ice water in the Sahara.
While exact sales figures do not exist, all publications agreed that the CV outsold the 5200. The fact that some mentioned that 5200 sales eventually equalled the CV did not matter- this was by 1984; in order to OVERTAKE (i.e. outsell) anything that has a head start (as did the CV) AND better sales figures for some time means that you must not only start to outsell, but you must continue to do so for quite some time. It is no different than a race- if I have a headstart on you, and I am going faster, then it is not nearly enough for you to move faster as I am slowing down- you must keep it up.
And even if this would have been the case, it was moot- Atari had dropped the 5200. There is simply no way any rational person can say the 5200 did better overall. All of the evidence indicates otherwise.
There are also other things:
1) Garage sales- I have found over 2 dozen CVs over the years at them, but only ONE 5200, and it wasn't even working. It took me quite some time to get it running, and I still need to find some 15-pin sockets for it to play Space Dungeon, Robotron: 2084, and any two-player games (simultaneous).
By the way- I ask if they have any "5200 stuff." With only one or two exceptions, I find out they menat the 2600. When I expalin what a 5200 was, they have no idea what I am talking about. This is NOT the case with the CV; at least 80% of the time, they know of it.
2) If the 5200 was doing so well, even I cannot believe Atari was insanely stupid enough to have dropped the 5200 in favor of the 7800, which, quite frankly, was not such a huge step from the 5200, and was introduced with games which the 5200 had already done, or (as with Desert Falcon and Galaga) could've done. Did they think Atari owners would forgive them? Or did they think to attract the larger CV crowd with games that did not work the first time? No matter how you add it up, it just doesn't work.
3) Again- this is worth mentioning again- the 5200 was hurt by the continued support the 2600 was receiving. No doubt, the CV was hurt in a similar way by that stupid ADAM computer, but it was worse for the 5200.
I've also often wondered why the second console- the 5200 (1982) was not 2600 compatable, while the third console- the 7800 (1984)- was. Why would a next generation console not be, while the one after that would? It does seem as if the 7800 was originally to have been Atari's next system, but they had to rush something out to meet the CV. It's only a guess, but at times it does seem that way, esp. as they dropped the 5200 after no more than 18 months.
Once again, after playing the 5200 and 7800 last night...I prefer the 5200. There's just something about it that, well, is "brighter."
As for the 3-6 million sold figure for the CV- it is likely that the actual number was about 4 1/2 million. Part of the problem is that the CV continued to be sold after mid-1984, so figures at that point would be blurry.
For you 5200 programmers- how much better could the 5200 Joust, Pac-Man, and Dig Dug have been? How good could Galaga and Desert Falcon have been? Alien Brigade? Dark Chambers?
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Consoles you own and LOVE
in Classic Console Discussion
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Atari VCS: Still the all-round "has to have something you like" console. And how I remember getting it for Christmas back in 1977! To this day, it has a number of appealing titles, like Super Breakout, Haunted House, and Keystone Kapers.
Atari 5200: O.K., so I prefer a CV. Big deal. If I didn't like this one, I would not have spent hours trying to fix it at a time when my skills were still minimal, and hours more designing and building controllers and adapters for it. The talking Berzerk, Qix, Defender, Ms. Pac-Man, Blueprint, Robotron: 2084, the crude-looking but great-playing Wizard of Wor, Pengo, Star Raiders, and Space Dungeon- among others- is why it is plugged in and ready to go next to the CV.
Atari 7800: It has some great games- Dig Dug, Xevious, Food Fight, among others- but overall the variety was lacking, and it lacks the "brightness" of the 5200 games, which were more relevant to their times (somehow this matters). Maybe in part I'm somewhat biased because I purchased it in later 1988, the dawn of the dark years of my life. To be honest, had the Atarisoft Dig Dug, JOUST, and Pac-Man been 100% completed and released, I likely would never have bought it.
NES: I keep it strictly for Terra Cresta, Bubble Bobble, Elevator Action, Donkey Kong 3, Gauntlet, Ghosts `N Goblins, and Galaga. Klax and Marble Madness are good, too. I do not favor it over the 7800.
ColecoVision: If 1988 biased me against the 7800, then 1982 favors the CV. A superb collection of games, lacking only a B-17 Bomber/Star Raiders shooter, not to mention terrific homebrew support, and the so-very playable Lord of the Dungeon, makes this an all-time favorite. Spy Hunter or Fortune Builder, anyone? How about Cosmic Avenger or Pac-Man Plus?
Intellivision: This eccentric old console is the most recent addition- a week ago, roughly- but some recently-acquired (what a pleasnt surprise!) games like the UGLY yet addicting Night Stalker, the ahead-of-its-time Auto Racing, the fine Space Armada, the superior-to-the-CV's (overall) Blackjack/Poker, and others just make this a good console to own.