CV Gus
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Posts posted by CV Gus
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Well, we are just CV owners, after all. The module does not have to turn a CV into a Super NES. Some of the better MSX games have shown what a "CV with more memory" can do, and that's more than good enough for us- especially if the module would allow use of analog controllers (e.g. for Arkanoid and a game like Pole Position, although, unless you want to get into 1970s games, that would be limited).
You mentioned how the above game (Space Manbow) uses a graphics mode that allows "8 sprites per scan line." I assume that means that twice as many sprites can be lined up left to right before they flicker? That alone is something, imagine Burgetime or Bump `N Jump with that...hey, is that one of the "improvements" regular games will get from your module? Excellent!
What did that version of DK require? If the module allows that, and anything more, then you're already there. Especially if it'll make the games themselves less expensive.
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Radio Shack found in the late 90's that pimping cell phones and other monthly service products was way more lucrative than their hobby electronic stuff - hence if you go to a RS today and ask about anything other than a phone you will get a blank stare followed by a pointing to the back of the store.
You know, I've noticed that, and I'm wondering who the hell came up with that stupid idea?
The whole thing about Radio Shack was that it was a place where an electronic hobbyist could get supplies. But lately, that place has been a dead end- as you say, it's becoming more of a retail outlet.
The problem here is simple- what do they sell that you cannot find at a Wal-Mart? They can't be insane enough to believe that they can undersell them- are they?
As for amperage- that is no problem. Even if the adapter has just 3/4 of an amp- not hard to find- then you should be fine. I've never had a problem.
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There is something else about these two systems I've experienced, as has someone else at this website, a factor which, after all of these years, is more important than ever (vast echo and distance...)
The power supplies.
Since it's been so many years, you're not likely to find a CV or 5200 power supply for sale in your local Radio Shack.
And here, the 5200- as do the 7800 and 2600- wins out.
The Atari systems use a simple adapter to convert household current to 9V DC. That's it. + and -. Easy. It's easy to find another power supply, even today, and I've even managed to run Ataris off of a 12V battery, using a simple voltage converter I picked up for 25 cents at a garage sale. Hell, just by using a couple of resistors, you could reduce the voltage to what it should be. Thus, with the 12V color television I picked up at a garage sale yesterday, during a power outage playing some 5200 games is no problem.
A CV power supply, on the other hand, is a real pain. Try to build your own, and if you are not VERY careful, then you'll blow something out. That -5V in particular is a booby trap. It can be done, but to tell you the truth, you're probably better off just getting an adapter through the mail, and plugging it into one of those little inverters if you want to use a 12V battery. Coleco fumbled the ball on this one.
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At this point, what exactly would this module do?
If it simply added memory, allowed the use of analog controllers, and cut down/eliminated the flickering, that would be great by itself.
Opcode, I'm still impressed by the Pac-Man Collection. It is better than the NES, 7800, 5200, 2600, and 5-in-one handheld versions. And those above screenshots are simply amazing. A CV can do that? Then that programmer I contacted a while back underestimated what a CV could do with a side-scroll.
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Well, that's a huge plus- that means you don't have to plug and unplug such an accessory every time you want a game of Ladybug or Space Panic. That means a lot less wear and tear on the works.
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Can you plug in normal CV cartridges into the module, and will they work normally?
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Maybe I can answer that- his module does more than just add RAM- it adds other abilities to the CV, such as the use of analog controllers (a CV has nothing for paddle controllers like a 2600).
Cost is probably another factor. It is easier and less expensive to have a module give added abilities to a console, rather than put them into each and every additional cartridge, especially as the needed enhancements would vary from game to game.
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All I'm trying to get across here is that just because you might like one system better than another does NOT mean you don't like that other system.
Didn't I not only build a digital 5200 controller without any help, but also posted full text instructions and background, as well as (thanks to Big O) diagrams so anyone can build one? Didn't I fix my 7800 so paddle controllers work once again?
When I post something at a website like this, they are usually just what you see. When I posted about 5200 vs. 7800, it was not only to compare the two, but to wonder if Atari might have made it if they had stuck with the 5200. Don't forget, the 5200 was doomed BEFORE the crash of 1984.
A CV vs. 7800 thread was not as crazy as some have implied. From what evidence I've gathered, as well as memories, the CV actually continued on into 1987 (some release dates of some games are listed as 1986). Again, it seemed as though it could've matched a 7800, as could the 5200. Don't forget, there is more than technology involved in a system's success: if tech specs were all that mattered, then the SMS would've pounded the NES.
I am also curious about some things, and hope to get some answers here. In my latest CV vs. 5200 post, it should have been obvious that I was wondering why more 5200 games aren't "ported" from an obvious source: Atari computers, just as MSX games can be put on a CV (e.g. Sky Jaguar). Well, at the Digital Press, it turns out that a good number of games HAVE been put on the 5200- in fact, there are so many, why didn't anyone ever point out this large number? In my earlier such post, I would then have simply stated that for after-years support, both are now supported by too many games to call- including Gateway to Apshai for the 5200 (thus, the CV advantage with RPGs is much less than I had thought).
Some are hypothetical. Obviously, the CV and 7800 never went directly head to head, just as the 5200 and 7800 never did- but indirectly, both the 5200 and CV may have hurt the 7800. The 5200, by being dumped so suddenly after too-short a time probably soured many potential customers to Atari, and the CV had a large enough following, a large enough library, and had lasted long enough (again, into 1987?) to make a CV to 7800 jump seem unnecessary. Thus, indirectly, both the CV and 5200 may have helped the NES against the 7800.
Aren't websites like this a logical place to bring these things up?
That's all there is to it. So don't look for some "ulterior motives" to my posts- there just aren't any.
Latest 5200 high scores:
Berzerk- 24,000+
Wizard of Wor- 209,400.
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It is difficult to describe just how impressive this version looks so far.
I remember the Super Game version (what was shown of it back then). I was not impressed at all; all of the flaws of the original were still there. It would not have been worth the purchase.
But yours is something else. It is what the SG version SHOULD have been.
One thing I did not like about other versions was the 1-2-3-4-1-2-3-4 way the screens were presented. At least the CV version, esp. with DKJr., got the sequence right. Yours I assume will present the screens in proper order? (Dumb question- of course it will...)
There is one thing I'm wondering- will regular CV games be playable with that module?
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Apparently, this post is needed.
Lately, I've had a number of people whining about how I "don't like" Atari (esp. the 5200) and am a CV fanatic. Enough already.
As I've posted before, and will do so here again, I first obtained a 5200 back in 1998, from a townwide garage sale. It came with a number of games, and even instruction booklets. Problem was, it didn't work- the plugs were mostly broken, esp. Player 1 (which is vital for a 5200), and the switchbox was broken.
This was back in 1998. What technical skill I have now I did not have back then. In spite of this, soldering and desoldering, cleaning and dusting, as best I could then, I managed, after many hours of effort, finally, when I tried the controller in port #1-
"THE HUMANOID MUST NOT ESCAPE"
It was victory.
Question: Does someone who hates the 5200 go through all of that trouble to get it running?
Yes, I've complained about the crummy 5200 controllers- as did 99% of people back in the day, if the letters and reviews in the magazines back then were any indication. So- what did I do? FROM SCRATCH, using old junk and the greater know-how I now have, BUILT A WORKING 5200 DIGITAL CONTROLLER!!!
ANNNNND...I even posted text and diagrams right here at this website, so anyone else can build one, too.
Not to mention a real paddle controller- for just two games, Super Breakout and Pole Position- two games- so I can play them better.
A lightgun, even though no lightgun games exist (hopefully, that won't be true much longer?).
AND- the niftiest thing yet, not one but TWO adapters to allow use of standard 9-pin controllers on a 5200. One (passive) only allows the use of "good" contact controllers like the 7800 pro-line, while the other (battery) allows the use of almost any 9-pin.
I have always conceded that for exotic controllers, the 5200 wins out, and it is easier to convert analog to digital rather than the other way around- which means the 5200 scores.
I bought Blueprint for the 5200 last year.
Right now, hooked up to the television is...the CV AND the 5200 (that switchbox allows both systems plus the digital converter box).
I happen to own a 2600, a 5200, a 7800, an NES, and a CV- yet, the two systems readily hooked up include a 5200.
So- what does all of this mean?
I REALLY LIKE THE FRIGGIN` 5200! Better than the 2600, the 7800, and the NES. And even the GBC.
Just because I may like the CV better DOES NOT mean that I don't like the 5200.
But I will not allow the likes of anyone here to tell me not to mention that the 5200 was outsold by the CV, or that the CV controllers themselves were better than the 5200 ones. The latter most people agreed with, even if they didn't like the CV ones (games digital, CV controllers digital, plus the 9-pin factor). The former is documented fact, and when it is relevant, I will mention it.
I also said that the NES pounded the 7800. Since you now know that I own one, since 2000, does that make me a CV fanatic, or an NES fanatic?
In my generations post, the CV outselling the 5200 was relevant, because nothing outsold the 2600- therefore, the 5200 did not do as well as the 2600. That was relevant to "diminishing generations." If that offended, then why not my statement that the NES pounded the 7800? Why doesn't that ever get me into hot water here?
So, in conclusion-
I LIKE MY 5200, AND ALWAYS WILL!
Why not visit the Digital Press, and read my review for 5200 Qix, and the CV Space Fury? If that doesn't settle it, then I give up.
Have a nice day- or night, depending on your time zone.
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(sighs) If I thought Atari sucked, people, then why did I purchase a 7800 in 1988, when the NES was THE thing?
Why did I pick up a 5200 from a townwide garage sale in 1998, and spend hours working on getting it to function for at least one player, because, among other things, control ports one, two, and four were busted?
Why have I built a digital controller, a paddle controller, a light gun, and a 7800 controller/2600 paddle controller-5200 module for the 5200 if I thought it "sucked?" Hell, that thing has gotten more hardware built from me than the CV!
And elsewhere here, I explained how I fixed my 7800 so paddle controllers worked on it again. Who does that for a system that terminally "sucks?"
If someone points out that the SMS was outsold by the NES- which it was- does that mean they're saying the SMS sucked? And why didn't you comment on my 7800 vs. NES statement?
What the hell are you babbling about? I was comparing earlier Atari generations to later ones. Yes, I mentioned how the CV outsold the 5200, because that was a factor- NOTHING outsold the 2600 in its time.
And why aren't you accusing me of being an NES fan, since I pointed out how the NES pounded the 7800- which (in case you didn't get it) I purchased in 1988 instead of an NES or SMS?
You didn't get it, did you? I'll simplify it:
2600: Nothing matched it.
5200- Second to CV, but it was not a beating. Just outdone, but respectable.
7800- Pounded by the NES and SMS, both.
Jaguar- What major system DIDN'T outdo it? How wasn't it a bad joke?
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Well, it's because I never mentioned these things in my previous comparison. This post is, in effect, a continuation of that other one.I'm curious about these things. We know MSX games can be put on a CV- obviously- but since a 5200 is "an Atari computer minus the keyboard," I've always wondered why more 5200 homebrewers aren't trying to bring more such games to the 5200. Is there some other factor, like memory blocks or expansion, involved? Keep in mind that the only programming experience I've had is with Commodore computers.
There's also a PIA missing and a disk drive missing and a 10K/16K ROM OS missing.
There, you see? That's the sort of thing I'm trying to find out about!
But I don't know how much of a problem this would present. Does it make it next to impossible, or very difficult? What about the program (game) itself? A small game?
Would there be similar problems with MSX games?
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I feel kind of sad today. Even though I haven't cared about MJ's career or music for a long time, as someone growing up during the 80s it's hard to not think of his influence on the pop culture of the time and, thus, on me. His music was cool back then and his music videos even cooler. Today it's like something is missing...There isn't much I can do to prevent this feeling that the 80s are now farther away to the point that sometimes I cannot identify the world where I used to live anymore. I don't know if I even recognize myself. So many dreams, so many change of plans… Not sure if what I am saying makes any sense...
Anyway, what can I do besides going back to my games?...
I hope to use this thread to post my progress with Donkey Kong Arcade, my port of the classic arcade game to the CV. I just resumed the game after a long hiatus, so for now you can enjoy a video of some very preliminary work to get stage 3 running.
It makes perfect sense, Opcode, believe me. Things have changed a whole lot...a whole lot. Myself, I don't like it much.
And that version of DK looks FANTASTIC so far- it has that "essense" of the arcade version- if you played it back in the early 1980s, in a nice arcade, you'll know what I mean! Just as your SIC and your PMC both do.
I think I'd prefer the "regular" four-screen version.
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(sighs) If I thought Atari sucked, people, then why did I purchase a 7800 in 1988, when the NES was THE thing?
Why did I pick up a 5200 from a townwide garage sale in 1998, and spend hours working on getting it to function for at least one player, because, among other things, control ports one, two, and four were busted?
Why have I built a digital controller, a paddle controller, a light gun, and a 7800 controller/2600 paddle controller-5200 module for the 5200 if I thought it "sucked?" Hell, that thing has gotten more hardware built from me than the CV!
And elsewhere here, I explained how I fixed my 7800 so paddle controllers worked on it again. Who does that for a system that terminally "sucks?"
If someone points out that the SMS was outsold by the NES- which it was- does that mean they're saying the SMS sucked? And why didn't you comment on my 7800 vs. NES statement?
Fact is, people, it was a case of diminishing generations. The 2600 was the NES of the 1970s. The 5200 was outsold by the CV, but what I was pointing out was that the 5200 did not do as well as the 2600.
The 7800 was even worse. The CV outsold, but did not annihilate, the 5200, and the 5200 got respect. But with the 7800, it wasn't even close; the SMS outdid it, it was a pathetic third. At least the 5200 was relevant to its time (Ms. Pac-Man, Robotron: 2084, Pengo, Space Dungeon, Ballblazer, etc.), but not really so with the 7800.
And the Jaguar? Who here will say that Atari wasn't a bad joke by then?
It all goes to show that you can have all the hardware and software you want, but if you neglect the other things- which is what Atari started to do when they dropped the 5200- then your company is doomed. I'm not concerned with the technology of these things in this post; I'm just pointing out that whatever Atari did during the days of the 2600 in the 1970s, they did less and less of in later years.
By the way- thanks to that 5200 digital controller, my new high score in Berzerk is over 24,000.
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Well, it's because I never mentioned these things in my previous comparison. This post is, in effect, a continuation of that other one.
I'm curious about these things. We know MSX games can be put on a CV- obviously- but since a 5200 is "an Atari computer minus the keyboard," I've always wondered why more 5200 homebrewers aren't trying to bring more such games to the 5200. Is there some other factor, like memory blocks or expansion, involved? Keep in mind that the only programming experience I've had is with Commodore computers.
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It seems as if, when you check out the history of Atari's home consoles, each generation was a less successful effort.
First, there was the 2600. What more has to be said? All things taken into consideration, this was the most successful programmable console of all time, even over the NES. This one had something for everyone; except for gun games (which were quite possible), it had nearly all genres you could want. It could appeal to young and old, even, with games like Chess, Poker, and Reversi.
Trouble first started with the 5200. Outsold by the CV, this one never was as successful as Atari had hoped. Of course, there was the 2600 gumming up the works: it was doing too well for Atari to drop, so they were dividing their efforts, with the 2600 apparently getting more than the 5200. Also, there was repetition: the 5200 had a "been there, done that" feel, especially with the first generation of games (Super Breakout and Space Invaders, with the latter being better on the 2600!).
To be fair, expecting ANY next-generation system to do as well as the 2600 was unrealistic. With games like Tempest, Super Pac-Man, and Millipede coming out, Atari should not have flatlined this one after a mere 18 months. Arnie Katz himself pointed out how disappointing sales were for Atari, but at this point they should not have looked at mere numbers- gamer loyalty was the thing.
A pity. There's something about it that just works, somehow. Not equal to the CV, perhaps, but it could've made money for Atari. It was from a brighter era.
Ah, the 7800. I was onboard for this video console version of the Titanic. What games were initially released? Why, THE SAME GAMES AS FOR THE 5200 AND 2600, for the most part, or games that should have come out for the 5200- like Xevious and Galaga. No wonder 5200 owners felt burned. And hey, let's release it AFTER the NES had a deathgrip on the market that not even Sega could overcome at that point. Add to that the cheap efforts (at least the 5200 had colorful and nicely-done labels and booklets), and the lack of released genres that were obviously popular (where was the Boss/Level/Side-Scrollers? The RPGs?), and the 7800 was the perfect example of how not to do it. I had hoped, and hoped...then finally wised up and went back to the CV. No wonder I've gone through so much trouble to get my 5200 up and running with homemade controllers, even.
The Jaguar. By now Atari was a bad joke. Both 5200 and 7800 owners weren't likely to trust them, and the new generation of gamers were raised on Sega and Nintendo. Had they cleaned up their acts, even so the Jaguar could've been a new start, but as with the 7800, every time they started to do anything right, they would right away wreck it. Anyone else here remember that stupid infomercial? With the 7800, there was at least the feeling that Atari could start coming back. With the Jaguar, it was too late.
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Homebrewing was brought up, which made me wonder: what about these things?
1) Memory expansion. Which of the two is easier to make expanded memory games for? Are there practical upper limits? If so, then what? How would the upper limits compare practically, since the two systems are different?
2) Opcode had already released MSX games on the CV. How hard is it to do this? Now, how does one release Atari 400 computer games on a 5200? Easier? Tougher?
3) Which is easier to get the hardware for to do these things?
There is also the question of controllers, but I covered that myself before, since controllers is the one technical area here I have some skill in. For regular within their spheres controllers, it is the CV, especially when building new joysticks. For more exotic ones, like steering, paddle, or lightgun controllers, the 5200 is easier to handle.
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Thanks for the advice on the flaky controller port. I am not knowledgeable with electronics, but I can solder. Would I pop off the black controller port? Where are the connections? I know it has plastic connectors to keep it on the machine.
Another repair question - what do you do when the screws in the machine no longer screw in (I assume the plastic in the machine is stripped?). Two of them just sit there and turn, but they don't screw in anymore. Don't worry about them? Any fixes?
There is one thing you can do, awkward as it is, to see if it's the controller or the control port on the 5200:
Plug in two controllers.
Choose a cartridge which uses the fire button, like Berzerk.
Choose a two-player game.
Play both briefly.
See what happens. If player one cannot shoot, but player two can, switch controllers. If now player one can shoot but not player two, then it's the controller.
If it's the same as before, it's the 5200.
(If neither can shoot ever, then maybe you have two bad controllers. Try another.)
If you think it's the 5200 at the port, then first check to see if all 15 pins are there. If they are, then it's likely a bad solder somewhere. If that's the case, then it could be easy: Just touch each of the 15 pins where they connect to the circuit board with a hot soldering iron (you said you can do basic soldering). Add a bit of solder if you think it needs it.
You do not have to remove that part at all if this is all that is the matter.
HELPFUL HINT:
UPPER FIRE BUTTON= GREEN/WHITE and ORANGE.
LOWER FIRE BUTTON= YELLOW and ORANGE
The 5200 controller plug has 15 holes: there are 2 rows; 8 in the top row, and 7 in the bottom row.
OOOOOOOO
OOOOOOO
I will number them. This assumes you are looking at the holes in the plug, with the 8-hole row on top:
01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08
09 10 11 12 13 14 15
01= GREEN
02= RED/WHITE
03= PURPLE
04= BLUE
05= ORANGE/WHITE
06= NOTHING
07= WHITE
08= GREY
09= ORANGE
10= GREEN/WHITE
11= YELLOW
12= NOTHING
13= RED
14= BROWN
15= BLACK
When looking at the shiny pins on the 5200, it is a mirror image of the above.
If you have a thin piece of wire and a delicate enough touch, you can directly test the 5200 port. Using a stripped garbage tie would do nicely for a wire. A multi-tester is better, use the setting for detect current (DC low).
To test the upper fire button, touch these two pins: Rightmost one on the bottom row, and the one right next to it (to the left of it).
00000000
00000XX
To test the lower fire button, touch these two pins: Rightmost one on the bottom row, and the one two over from it (to the left).
00000000
0000X0X
If this does nothing, then it is certainly something with the 5200.
As for the screws: you could try a slightly wider one.
Good luck.
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Ever hear the old saying, "where there's smoke, there's fire?"
Given the boneheaded things we KNOW Atari (often by order of Warner Communications) did back in those days, why would it be difficult to believe the landfill story? "Out of sight, out of mind," those idiot CEOs likely figured.
Look at E.T. They rushed it out in six weeks, so it was a guaranteed failure. They wanted millions more copies than there were known Atari 2600 users! AND...
It was late 1982, for crying out loud- when the ColecoVision and their own 5200 were out!
Incidently, one of my video game magazines from those days reported this, and even had a photo of a crate of games. There were a number of people there, and security to make sure nobody grabbed anything, although it was more likely people wanted to toss their copies in with the rest...
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Couldn't a CV version of Galaga be something like Atarisoft Galaxian? A CV owner would accept single-colored diving enemies. Or would the double-ship cause problems?
As for arcade games: this is based on what, back in its time, the CV could've come up with...
Wizard of Wor.
Satan's Hollow.
Snap Jack.
I'd say Jump Bug here, but there was a version for the Arcadia 2001, so I don't know if Coleco could've done it legally.
Donkey Kong 3.
Fitter.
Cosmic Alien.
Astro Fighter.
Space Odyssey.
As for Galaga- yes and no. On the one hand, any such game for the CV would be good, but I already have the near-perfect NES version.
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Who won (as far as sales went) by generation:
First: The Atari VCS/2600. It wasn't even close. The Astrocade, the APX, Odyssey 2, the Telstar Arcade, the Fairchild Channel F, never had a chance.
Second: The Intellivision (a one-horse race). In some cases, it matched the third generation.
Third: ColecoVision (I'm including the Arcadia 2001 and Vectrex in this group).
Fourth: The NES. It beat the SMS and 7800 combined. If Atari and Coleco in the early 1980s was an example of how not to do it, Nintendo in the latter half of that decade was the example of how it should be done.
Fifth: As far as I know, the Genesis. Unlike the NES and 2600, though, there didn't seem to be a huge winner here.
Sixth and onward: I'm not sure, partially because what made up the "sixth generation" is not entirely clear. You had the CDi and 3DO, and maybe a few others (would the 32X and Sega CD be here?). Did it include the Saturn, N64, Jaguar, and Playstation, or were those last three the seventh generation? What about the Jaguar?
The longest-lived: The Atari 2600. From the late 1970s almost into the early 1990s, what other system had that kind of staying power?
As for controllers: again, the CV won out, for two reasons:
1) They were digital, as were almost all of the games at the time.
2) They were of the 9-pin design. This made it incredibly easy to find alternatives, especially with the cheap and then-widely available y-plugs.
I'd used the 5200 controllers for years, but it wasn't until I'd built a digital controller for the console that I finally broke 20,000 in Berzerk. Likewise, my games of Robotron: 2084 improved greatly. Same with Mario Bros., Qix, Defender, Pac-Man, Ms. Pac-Man...and I was able to finish games of Super Breakout with the paddle controller.
Reasons to get a CV: Steamroller, Spy Hunter, Pac-Man Collection, Bump `N Jump, Illusions, Ladybug, Slither, Lord of the Dungeon, Alcazar (1985!)*, Boulder Dash, Fortune Builder, Pepper 2, Gateway to Apshai, Galaxian, Cosmic Avenger, etc...
Reasons to get a 5200: Berzerk (one of my favorites), Star Raiders*, Defender, Centipede, Gyruss, Blueprint, Robotron: 2084, Pac-Man (somehow it captures the essence of that game), Ms. Pac-Man, Pengo, Super Pac-Man, Qix, Super Breakout (if you like this 1970's game and you have a paddle controller then it's great), Ballblazer (why bother with the 7800 version?), etc...
* The CV won out on RPGs, but the 5200 had it with first-player shooters.
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TRANSLATION: I posted something he didn't like.You post a lot of things I don't like! It all comes from the fact that you try to rewrite history, change facts and ignore facts when they are put in front of you.
Sorry, amigo, but the only one here ignoring facts is you.
It is a FACT that the CV outdid the 5200 in sales. How could the 5200 have possibly won out, when Atari itself dumped it in early 1984- BEFORE the Tramiels ever took over. You seem to conveniently forget that I still have the old video gaming magazines from those days, too, when this was current news. Not Internet copies- the originals. And there was MUCH ANGER from 5200 owners, to put it mildly. In a way, it was worse- the 5200 owners were abandoned; the CV owners lost out because the company itself was going down.
As for sales figures- here's yet another place for the "Six Million:"
http://classicgames.about.com/od/history/a...VisionHis_3.htm
You'll note that I usually still give out the range. The actual number was probably close to 4 1/2 million. But do any of the sales figures for anything consider returns?
Maybe in your world anything you don't like is "subjective," but here's reality- take it or leave it.
1) The CV got a head start on the 5200.
2) Atari released the 5200 with an initial batch of games that had a mostly "been there, done that" feel because of the 2600. This did not help. In spite of the Telstar Arcade, the CV did not have a "tough act to follow."
3) Atari, unlike Coleco, was trying to support TWO systems at the same time. It's an ironic fact that a good version of Galaxian for the 2600 took away incentive to get a 5200. Likewise Space Invaders, Super Breakout, and even Missile Command. In a way, the 5200's worst enemy was the 2600. In spite of the module, the 2600 hurt 5200 sales badly.
4) Atari abandoned the 5200 in early 1984. This did little for consumer trust- or 5200 sales. Thus, not only did the CV have a head start, it had more time at the end, too. And didn't someone "take over" for the CV after mid-1984? Stores still had CV stuff right through 1987- I ought to know, since I was still buying from a number of stores, and not in the "clearance" bins. And that lack of trust hurt the 7800 and Jaguar.
5) Except among Atari fanatics, it's universally held that the CV outsold the 5200 easily. This is why they're so much easier to find "in the wild" than 5200s. I know. I've looked for both over the years. (Among all pre-NES systems, though, the 2600 ruled in numbers.)
6) CV controllers weren't great, but they blew 5200 ones out of the water. Then again, what didn't?
7) There never was a FATAL glut. Atari doomed itself with boneheaded spending and poor management; Coleco by that moronic ADAM computer. Both sides believed the hype about "video games are dead, the future is in computers." It's like running a race to win, and then being convinced that someone else has crossed the finish line- you tend to lose steam and give up. Hell, with the Internet of 2009 (e.g. YouTube), computers have something those old computers never did, so why is there an X-Box 360 and Playstation 3? Why did the NES do so well? Because the "glut" is a myth. Marketers and gullible CEOs suicided the industry.
How much better the 5200 would have done if it had been released earlier with good controllers and better thought-out games (what if Pac-man had been the..."pac"-in game?), if games like Tempest and Super Pac-Man had been released in early 1984/late 1983, etc...it very likely would have done much better. Likewise, if Coleco had not tinkered around with laserdisc modules, super modules, and the ADAM computer, then who knows? Certainly even better. Quite frankly, both companies in those days are perfect examples of how NOT to do it.
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Those stupid controllers were one of the reasons the 5200 never did as well as Atari had hoped.
The 5200 was mainly something meant to play arcade games at home with, as was the CV. Those games used regular joysticks, or trak-ball controllers, as a rule.
The 5200 joystick didn't work well for anything, with the possible exceptions of Pole Position and Missile Command. Plus, they are so damn hard to repair. Bleah.
A pity, because the 5200, had it not been abandoned by Atari in early 1984, would've had some truly nifty games.
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Any chance of adapting a paddle controller and using the Wico y cable?What do you mean by this? Do you mean Atari 2600 paddles?
Building an adapter to use 2600 paddle controllers on a 5200 is not difficult. But I've never seen that Y-cable, I'm afraid.
Yeah, I mean the 2600 paddles. The Wico cable I'm referring to comes with the Wico 5200 joystick. It has a connector for the 5200 controller and a 9pin DB9 connector that the Wico stick plugs into.
Having never seen it, I can only say this: The plug would have to put the 2600 paddle (potentiometer) on the circuit as the one the 5200 uses. Since the two potentiometers in a 5200 ARE "paddles," this is not hard to do, but again, I don't know if this is what the cable does. For a 2600, the joystick and paddles use different circuits.
There are two such mini-paddles in each 5200 controller, so it would be easy to have both 2600 paddles take the place of them both (vertical and horizontal). In theory, 8-player paddle games are possible on a 5200. But since no 5200 "paddle" game (like Super Breakout) uses anything but the horizontal one for each port, there'd be little point in hooking both up, except maybe to change gears in Pole Position.
Your best bet is to find out where, in a 2600 paddle plug, the wires for the paddles-circuits are, as well as the fire buttons (which correspond to directional controls on a 2600). Then, find out where in your cable they lead. If they lead to the fire buttons and the 5200 potentiometer circuits, then it should work- if not, then it likely won't. But you'll know why, and maybe can do something with it? Good luck!
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Atari: Diminishing Efforts?
in Atari 5200
Posted
It's strange that people cannot accept the idea that the CV outsold the 5200. Nobody seems to have a problem with the NES having outsold the 7800, after all.
There were a number of reasons why the 5200 lost out- although, unlike the poor 7800, it was NOT a massacre:
1) The 2600. In any field, it's hard to follow up something that was a huge hit. It also took resources, time, and effort away from the 5200. It is interesting to wonder how the 5200 would've done if the CV had never been; would the 2600 have still badly hurt it?
2) The crummy controllers. To this day, bleah.
3) The 5200 had a "been there, done that" feel. Especially since the pack-in game, Super Breakout, was really no better than the 2600 version, which was actually better because of the paddles. And the 5200 Space Invaders was inferior to the 2600.
4) First impressions. Overall, the initial batch of CV games were better-looking and more unique than the 5200's. This too gave the CV an important head start.