[Announcing the Super Game Controller for the ColecoVision]

On 8/17/2020 at 11:07 PM, doubledown said:

@tripletopper this is what...your 500th post (give or take), detailing your propensity to ambidextrous, and/or other overly complicated controllers.  Please give it a rest.

looking at the pieces parts of what I see,  I see that it could very easily be 180ed, and made into a right-handed joypad.

 

I'm not saying you intended to make it ambidextrous it just happened to be that way.

 

So if it can be ambidextrous, why not embrace it?

 

The most you have to do for a permanent right stick is just drill a couple holes and rewire the connection according to right-hand logic.

 

It would probably take a lot to make it ambidextrous in the sense that it has  user-serviceable ambidextrtity, like 2 extra DB9s of one gender and something that keeps the slant on the appropriate side.

 

by the way there's a difference between that super action pad and the super action controller.  The super action pad CAN be ambidextrous while the super action ontroller MUST be.  The difference?  Holding a genuine Coleco in the air for such a long time gives your muscles cramp and you have to switch joystick positions after a life or level clear when your arms cramp up.

 

as I said I see things that no one else sees but I'm blind to things that a lot of people see in other respects.

 

That's just my mind. I'm sorry.

[Japan Vs. Rest of the World: Who has created the best games?]

Before the crash, obvious Japanese names were buried behind US names like Bally (Taito and Namco used Bally, and that caused the best home version of Pac-Man, Muncher, combined with the fact Atari bought the hone rights directly from Namco to be a "bootleg game")

 

It seems the only real game jingoists are the Japanese.  (Atari partnered with Namco to slip Atari games in Japan and Namco games in America)

 

The only non-purely Japanese system that succeeded in Japan was Sega Saturn, and that was the period Sega of Japan gave a publicly broadcast proverbial middle finger to the rest of the world (especially foreign Sega divisions).  Most people in Japan assosicate Atari with a specific "I got you surrounded" concept in the game Go than with a video game company.  

 

Europe welcomed games and  names around the world.  American pre crash accepted world games, but not world company names.  (Especially Japanese). But Japanese have the most jingoistic tastes in video games..

[Wiimote light gun feels different from CRT aiming.]

Why does everyone use an infrared bar with 2 points of light?

 

A "Visible Light Camera Gun" would be be better than an infrared positions gun working off 2 points of reference.

 

Doesn't the Guncon use a composite in signal to sync the gun?  You can use an HDMI signal to compensate for monitor ping and can give a reference of a picture.

[Streaming RF without a VCR displaying in RGB]

well I found that I turn on auto scan while the RF is plugged in and it's on Channel One, and I got video from the ColecoVision but not audio.  a lot of ColecoVision games are silent until you press the game selection button.

 

2 questions about programming, since there's no TV plugged in should I set all my game consoles to channel 3 so that they all work on the same frequencies instead of having to have separate two three and four frequencies?  

 

second question is should I run a video game that constantly plays music like for example Carnival or Venture on the ColecoVision?  maybe you could better pick up the audio frequency if there's actually audio playing cuz currently I got some sort of data squelch on my audio channel.

 

(Played with it for a couple days.  Left post in limbo.  Now coming to this conclusion.)

 

fiddling with the controls I found in a place that is not supposed to organically be on the menu a place to determine whether you use PC sound or if sound both or something else I can't tell the other one background.

 

I don't know what exactly the setting is called or what it should be set on but now it seems like my RF adapter is better than either my S video adapter or a specific machine on it.

 

My ColecoVision looks perfectly clear on the MTV box.  So good I canceled the refund.

 

Now I got to figure out why the MTVBox looks better than my N64 going through S-Video into an S-Video to VGA adapter.

 

The S video is getting jail bars.  I'll see if it's just the N64 all s videos or all s videos plus composites    be back in a couple hours to tell you.

 

(Back after overnight).

 

The Saturn plays on S Video with no jail bars on my SVideo to VGA adapter.

 

I tried the Genesis's SCART adapter and a SCART to VGA adapter.  I got no picture.  Maybe it's hooked up wrong.  I'll try others.

 

I tried the Genesis in composite, and believe it or not, the screen is 99% monochrome (black and white, it seemed like).  With occasional rainbowing of text and extreme curves.

 

To sum up.  ColecoVision RF is perfect with MTVBox once you understand the interface.  N64 S Video had extreme jailbars.  Saturn S Video had no jailbars with same converter.  Genesis composite has B/W video via composite with same adapter.  And I'm unsure whether a SCART to VGA can be passive and powerless, or whether such a converter requires a power source in something active.

[Streaming RF without a VCR displaying in RGB]

well I found that I turn on auto scan while the RF is plugged in and it's on Channel One, and I got video from the ColecoVision but not audio.  a lot of ColecoVision games are silent until you press the game selection button.

 

2 questions about programming, since there's no TV plugged in should I set all my game consoles to channel 3 so that they all work on the same frequencies instead of having to have separate two three and four frequencies?  

 

second question is should I run a video game that constantly plays music like for example Carnival or Venture on the ColecoVision?  maybe you could better pick up the audio frequency if there's actually audio playing cuz currently I got some sort of data squelch on my audio channel.

 

(Played with it for a couple days.  Left post in limbo.  Now coming to this conclusion.)

 

fiddling with the controls I found in a place that is not supposed to organically be on the menu a place to determine whether you use PC sound or if sound both or something else I can't tell the other one background.

 

I don't know what exactly the setting is called or what it should be set on but now it seems like my RF adapter is better than either my S video adapter or a specific machine on it.

 

My ColecoVision looks perfectly clear on the MTV box.  So good I canceled the refund.

 

Now I got to figure out why the MTVBox looks better than my N64 going through S-Video into an S-Video to VGA adapter.

 

The S video is getting jail bars.  I'll see if it's just the N64 all s videos or all s videos plus composites    be back in a couple hours to tell you.

[Converting video to VGA and Jailbars.]

I got a tale of two converters.

 

1 converts ntsc RF to VGA.  It has instructions written in chinglish.  It has a very unintuitive user interface.  it has separate sound settings that you must turn on to get the RF sound through.  But plowing through it eventually it does work.

 

ColecoVision looks crystal clear on a RF input straight into the MTVBox converter.

 

The other is a composite/S-Video to VGA.

 

All Nintendo 64 games using the s video have jail bars when going to VGA.

 

By the way if you're going to use VGA you might as well use it in style and use a VGA CRT so that you're not chasing ghosts.

 

By the way this is the only way I found so far to play HDMI games with close to zero ping.

 

by the way so my brother can play the Nintendo switch downstairs is there such a thing as an HDMI to 480i/240p YCbCr CRT converter?  If so how much does that cost?

 

I heard scaling is the most difficult when it goes from one digital standard to another going from digital to analog is the easiest going from analog to digital is the next easiest.

[What's the Worst Console You Ever Played?]

Worst console ever?

 

The US version of the Emerson Arcadia 2001.

 

It's about Atari's and Coleco's common  girlfriend, Sue.

 

They would sue Emerson if they released the games they had rights to in other markets.

 

Elsewhere the Emerson was good, I heard.  But in the US its games were scrambled messed of errors and unfun gameplay.

 

In America, was there one redeeming game?  Jungler perhaps?

 

Also weren't they forced to invent region locking so you can't import a foreign Berserk or Phoenix to the US?

[Announcing the Super Game Controller for the ColecoVision]

Looking at some of the parts, it looks like it could very easily currently automatically be ordered in a left stick or right stick model.  you don't have to change the molds because the slope is external of the main joystick opponents.

 

Because the slope and cradle is a separate piece compared to the actual joystick button and keyboard mechanics, you couldn't very have two female DB9 one wired for the left-hand arrangements one wired for the right-hand arrangement, unlock,  flip it, relock, and make it easy for the non tinkerer to easily flip and prepare, and you might have a decent consumer-level product.

 

If you look at the Sega Master System NES and 7800 Joy pads they could have easily flipped and it been made ambidextrous models.  The buttons are arranged in parallel line with the length of the pad, (unlike the dog-bone NES.). The diamond the buttons is vertically and horizontally flip symmetric.

 

Since it's currently published on my website sinistersticks.com , and since my mentality of making money on this is either hit a home run or strike out swinging, because I have constant pension from the state government for being handicapped, pay me a little money might actually hurt my chances of staying on pension so it has to be a real big amount for worth me taking money, (like Hori level money) 

 

Go ahead consider this a nickels worth of free advice.  Even if you don't want to make a user-friendly swappable version, you could sell them factory-installed as right hand stick in left hand stick.  I know the numbers are so low now that you would cater each one individually.

 

So is anyone tested it right stick?

 

Are while I'm giving free advice, you should have an analog button programming device with four holes labeled I, M, R,  and P for index middle ring and Pinky as the output, and N, S, W  and E 4 North South West and East as the input and connect little wires in between them so that if you're playing tutankham and the buttons are backwards if the I&M buttons are respectively the S and E buttons, then contoured left handed, the S&W buttons would be used.  But S would be fire left when the buttons are right-handed and S would be fire right when the buttons are left handed.

 

So to avoid all this there should just be 8 3.5 mm holes with those designations for freely programming the buttons.

 

Also if you're the type of person who would rather use with the right button w&s for the two main buttons, as opposed to S & E, that could just as easily be arranged.  now you don't have to program certain games with certain configurations you just map it out on your own and use the manual mapperr to do it. 

 

When you design ambidextrous sticks you do not necessarily want to impose your ergonomics on someone else.  That's why the free button system should work.  Before each button gets encoded in the ColecoVision, there should be some sort of matrix representing each button as a single press along with its corresponding grounds, because Ed lydon found to make his ColecoVision fightstick PCB work he had to have two different grounds organized by directions Plus I as one ground, and keypad and all the buttons and roller as the other ground.

 

By the way if we're using the SNES as a reference and you're playing Mega Man, do you soon someone is to fingering buttons placing their index on the B and middle on the A for truly independent firing and jumping, or do you assume the whole fam covers y&b and they kind of move parts of their thumb in a wavy way to actuate those independently?   So does the I&M default to Y&B  or B & A?

 

And also wouldn't my button swapping device solve that issue of not forcing you to commit to a TV setup or a BA setup, that you could be all things to everybody and have more customers?

 

one of the reasons why I built my default Sinister stick is because right handing a left-handed joystick quite enough times have problems with no button programming features offered on the game level alone in the OS.  and I prefer original hardware and software unless I have a good reason not to use it like challenging someone head-to-head via computer.

[Coleco Super Action Controller repairs for hire?]

Hello I noticed there were some new joypads on a different topic  but the problem is I prefer sticks.  (And also the pad isn't ambidextrous when it easily could be by 180ing the design.)

 

I kind of like the design of the super action joysticks but the problem is they are very fragile.  I know that you have to take your joy sticks to the sanding spa every so often cuz those buttons will stop working.  I have occasionally fixed paddles by isopropylholing the potentiometer chamber, and I may have fixed minor ColecoVision super action button failure,. But if minor cleaning doesn't fix it it needs to go to the spa.

 

first of all are there any ColecoVision super action controller repairers for hire?

 

Second I noticed that best electronics California has made super buttons for the 5200 controllers.  Maybe there's a way we could have built a bionic super action controller, with buttons that are way less maintenance then the original ones.

 

I assume the buttons are considered digital and not analog.  if that's the case then why can't we replace them with more Street Fighter type buttons except contoured to be grabbed like a super extra controller, like finger bumpers?  of course if the buttons were originally designed as analog, that would kind of kill the whole point.

 

Likewise I noticed when I took it apart the joystick was an eight-part Daisy wheel that had eight separate actuators for each of the eight diagonals.  this implies that someone was thinking of making it a 16 way controller if you tween between a cardinal and a diagonal and get a tertiary.  Do any of the super action specific games utilize 16 way motion?  

 

If none of the games require 16 ways of motion then maybe I have a theory of how to make a joystick and have it be preserved.

 

I assume you can use a real roller from the super extra controller and real keypad and Y-connect them with a dual DB9 and not touch the joystick and button functions on the real controller and have a more durable, auxiliary fightstick be adaptable for the ColecoVision.   I have bought a fightstick PCB from Edladdin for that specific purpose.

 

Maybe it is a waste of money to have super extra controllers just repaired with the exact same OEM parts that are going to break apart the exact same way.   if that's the case I should just hope the keypad and roller still work and Y-connect them and hook up with a real fight stick that you would find in the fight stick community.

[Announcing the Super Game Controller for the ColecoVision]

Did anyone notice other than me that it ruins the whole point of that era's controllers of being ambidextrous.

 

The funny thing it's an easily flippable design, like my fight stick on SinisterSticks.com 

 

Maybe there should be two DB9 females one on each side of the joystick one for left hand orientation one for right hand orientation, wired up two different ways, make the controller feel well both ways and Bam, instant ambidextrous joypad.

[Streaming RF without a VCR displaying in RGB]

There were options for VHF 1, VHF 2 and UHF.

 

But I'm not quite sure how to select it on my chinglish instruction book and very bare system OS

 

But thanks for the help, and I'll try again once I figure out why my Macintoshbfron 2011 can have 3 live camera feels but only display one to 2 at a time on OBS.

 

In the meantime, I'll play RF, and possibly more in the basement with a lower cllecel computer that can do standard definition and analog video 

[Streaming RF without a VCR displaying in RGB]

I was hoping someone at atariage would be able to know how to run these.

 

Luckily this was one of many options and not an option I must have or else it would.

 

luckily got a second streaming Studio where I could do like gun games and RF games.

 

No big loss just thought it would make certain things easier.

[Streaming RF without a VCR displaying in RGB]

I bought on eBay a cheap Chinese device called an MTV box, which if the chinglish means what I think it means it was supposed to be an ntsc /PAL/SECAM tuner which lets you convert RF signals into VGA signals.

 

at first I thought it didn't work then I noticed why splitting a VGA unless both devices are connected will not make one or the other. It's either both or nothing.

 

So I went straight to the VGA Monitor, and got a blue screen and an on-screen menu.

 

in about 5 minutes of getting things wrong I finally figured out how to navigate the menu.

 

There are options called video / TV, and color space, which have options like Auto which other the text was coming in as well as ntsc pal and secam.

 

the physical adapter I found out is either a Euro adapter or a proprietary adapter from MTVBox which doesn't list any manufacturer name so it's probably just a generic Chinese knockoff that various companies produce.

 

The weird thing is regardless of the color the tuning system is not in traditional ntsc frequency designations like most VCRs and tuners in America they are numbered in xxx.25 M where XXX is a 2 or 3 digit number from about 80 to 700. The number XXX is always odd and the decimal point is always .25. So whatever the unit of M is, I don't know whether it's wavelength in meters or frequency in megahertz, but I can't figure out how to get 3 channels on there.

 

for Video Game machines there are probably only three channels will ever need unless you go into dedicated systems that are single games with no removable ROM, and on everything I've seen there either Channel 2 and 3 or channel 3 and 4.  Since there was an analog channel 3 in my Cleveland market, and they might be broadcasting a candlelight broadcast saying please insert your digital converter box or buy a new TV to get all the signals, so the analog 3 may still be active.  I see options for auto-tune where I try to turn on a video game system and see if it picks up a frequency but it doesn't.  Then I try to manually tune, but the numbers are not ntsc Channel designations but either wavelengths in meters or frequencies in megahertz.

 

Can someone tell me how to manually program ntsc analog 2 3 and 4, (and hopefully not, but will do, other channels that are use by other RF-only video game consoles)

 

does anyone know if antenna tuners are Universal if you could fit the physical connectors in the right way.  I understand the different standards are how TV transmits color information will still be in black and white compatible.  It seems like this device could  adjust four different standards around the world.

 

By the way all my home consoles that are RF only are all American consoles.  I have no Japanese or european ones in the bunch, or if they are, they're made for the American market.

[Does any game use 6+ players with 6-buttons]

I heard most of the Euro titles are Sports titles, which naturally have more players.  One soccer Football game has only the 2 captains that need the x y z and r for dictating CPU teammate strategy.

[Does any game use 6+ players with 6-buttons]

Is that a us only list, or a world list?  And for foreign market games, any you recommend for six+:6-button controllers?  Some that doesn't require foreign language literacy?

[Are CRT VGAs a good monitors for most games?]

My talk typing didn't work: if a light gun could be thrown off by a VCR, then the only kinds of conversions that would work would be physical form conversions.

 

I know the Master System has scart.  The problem is line doubling will cause a mis-sync with the Sega Scope.

 

If you kind of had a gun con system where the machine could sense when the TV is synced, then it can control the shutters to match the TV.  And since CRT TV is instant, this should be a way that you could keep 3D movies still alive.  

[What antenna connector is this]

Now I can't figure out how to connect the connectors.  I search Google and all I got was eBay results of where to buy a connector not how to connect them.  I got youtube videos on how to splice them into a wire but not how to connect a male and female natively.

 

This is what I got.

 

 

[Are CRT VGAs a good monitors for most games?]

Plus you can set the 360 as a 4x3 VGA signal. I actually DO have that cable, an official Microsoft brand.

 

And yes you can convert between males and females, and it works.

 

Also do VGAs not hooked up to a computer  have a YCbCr mode so it can run into my Hauppauge Rocket and Macintosh better?  But if It doesn't I got a VGA->3 RCA YCbCr -> VGA converter from Mayflash. Luckily I'm able to replace Euro power adapter with an American universal one.

[Are CRT VGAs a good monitors for most games?]

Well since I last posted, I found that for a 4x3 VGA, a 720p resolution is best.  A 1080p resolution is zoomed in AND squished.

 

Because the Xbox One doesn't have a 4x3 mode, I better hope the RF/composite/S Video/ YPbPr 3 RCA/ SCART converted to 3 RCA has a 16x9 output, or else I'll have to adjust.

[Does any game use 6+ players with 6-buttons]

I think you're missing the point of my question.  It's not what controller brand 9f controller to get.  

 

It's about which type of controller between( three-button and six button ) i need and how many of those.

 

I need one controller anyway and I already got 7 that can use any controllers namely Double Dribble.  8 is the absolute maximum.

 

if there is a cooler game that uses a 6th or even 7th and 8th six button controller I could forgo the third Wheel of Fortune controller until I find a real good deal.

 

I'm trying to base my priorities on what games I currently have and what games are currently out there that are worth getting.

[What antenna connector is this]

I thought the analog standards were fairly universal.  Is there a VHF/ UHF difference between NTSC-J and NTSC-U/C?  I only notice that on video games with deeper system specific nation regions,and usually have different connectors.

 

Assuming the output is VGA. and VGA is universal, then that box is a universal RF game adapter.

[What antenna connector is this]

I thought the output was specifically VGA not a European version of a TV, whichnnormally use just scart.

 

My only question is "are there differences in VGA standards around the world?".  If VGA is a world standard, then American RF games should be able to be played with American RF input and any VGA output, but ironically uses a European input connector.

 

Also I thought the United States and Japan use the same RF input standard.

 

I thought the label ntsc-u and ntsc-j are designations for proprietary hookups that have different substandards around the world with a main standard, like PlayStation or Saturn.

 

since these old things basically take a Channel of standard old school broadcasts, then in theory anything video related that works in Japan will work in American vice versa.

 

looking at the picture again it just says ntsc and I assume pal and secam and others are acceptable standards to input from.

 

And if he'd use a world Universal output and you could select your input then in theory this could be a universal RF to VGA adapter.  my work getting my Sprint network to work with an antenna would uses a whole bunch of weird standards all made sense and all work together and delivered a good cellular signal using RF to attach an antenna to get a better signal.  since the only thing making it weird or physical RF hookups, and I have personally witnessed various different physical hook up standards being in her compatible with the original electronic standard being maintained, (yes even though these standards are made for CB FM AM and TV all around the world, they all work in physically hooking a cellular skin from the antenna to the hook up that is the antenna port on the cellular device.). Those physical adapters do nothing but connect, the actual electronic message stays the same assuming you're staying within the same TV signal language like ntsc pal or secam.

 

 

 

 

[What antenna connector is this]

Based on my experience of RF singals by being an early adopter of Sprint cellular internet in 2007-8 ish.  Mainly because the only other choices were dial up, which is quickly not being an option once Dreamcast Online was stopped, and satellite, never good for gaming due to a guaranteed 400 ms of ping.

 

I had to go through 3 if 4 different types of connectors, but they were all compatible with each other and my Sprint outdid dial up.  So I know the RF signals are convertable "enough".

 

I also noticed the VGA menu has an otption to select RF input type.  And said NTSC-U.  I assume you're telling the converter of which converter program to run.

 

By the way, are there any differences between VGA around the world?  If there are, I might need a world VGA converter.  Otherwise it's a fairly universal output and work on any VGA signal.

 

Also, I heard that the biggest contributor to tv delay is the modern HD display technology.  The signal conversion times are so small, that the only thing the delay effects light gun games and Sega Scope 3D games, and for everything else is considered lag free.    If so, why aren't more people using this method?

[What antenna connector is this]

Here are a couple of pics: 

 

 

 

 

[What antenna connector is this]

9 hours ago, phoenixdownita said:

Any chance it is this thing:

 

https://nintendosegajapan.com/2015/10/22/how-to-play-ntsc-j-rf-only-consoles-on-pal-televisions/

That's EXACTLY the MTVBox device I have.  RF in, VGA out.

 

Now the question is how to physically connect.  I tried F type male and female, and BNC male.  None work so far.