tripletopper
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Posts posted by tripletopper
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Well, i was going to have a 16+ pin setup. Whete the 15 pins are the 15 buttons as discrete electrical signals (12 for 12 keys. Plus 5200 start, reset, and pause) one from ground ( looking at the Edladdin Coleco PCB, coleco uses 2 "grounds", and it seems keypad presses all use the same ground.)
I was goiing to do it in 2 stages. First stage converts the 3.5 mm into a 16 pin separate from then db37 to be processed in the second stage.
The second stage takes the individual pins, and gets wired for each system: INTV and 5200 wired to the row pins and column pins individually, colecovision wired to a 13 pin ribbon cable according to the Edladdin standard.
... and what do i do for the Jaguar?
Is the Jag Pad so complex that It uses a special PCB, and newbies like me can't describe how to recreate it, like i discussed how to recreate an INTV 2 or 5200 keypad.
I heard in theory, all 21 inputs on a single Jaguar controller, and all 84 inputs when using a Team Tap. Could be actuated in any combination, including all together if you have multiple people on one pad and the SOCD preventing pad N+S and W+E is curcumvented. You can't replicate that with 21 inputs on 15 pins without replicating the PCB.
Since , on the Jag Pro Pad, all L R Z Y and X are are additional redundant, more ergonomic, repeat keypad presses, it just makes more sense to try take a standard Jag Pad, and hack it in the fighting stick PCB sense. And wire 4 6 7 8 9 as those above corresponding buttons. Correct?
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First i never said i had more than one controller. (Or if i did, it was a typo)
Second, it's one controller to work with many systems, not one contropler for each system. The whole point is you can carry just one stick to work with every game where a digital joystick make sense.
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Phase one was the pictures shown. It was originslly for an xbox 360
Phase 2 will cone in a week or 2. That will have cthulhu plys ambi wiring.
Phase 3 i will describe to someone interested. B
As for button reconfig. A standard Master System pad puts the 1 button, fire on the left, thr right index finger. The officail SMS stick is right handed. But can only map them left-to-left. Unfortunately, most ganes with 1 ( r index) as fire will have 1 on the left on the left side ( l middle)
Most video ganes DON'T accommodate flipping hands for both Tutankham
(L/R....S...L/R. )
as well as ship shooters
(M/I...S.. I/M).
Thankfully i have a Sega for LR and a Beeshu fir MI. But that's only SMS. and most games vefote Genesisndon't think about the flip. So if games don't, I must.
But 3 buttons or more, it needs a more flexable system.
It,'s just a side effect of retrofitting games that werevl designed to shorten credits in arcades to nake buttons easy, but firce a lett stick. Most mirrored ganescare optimized the eay that makes most sense. Modt games are MISIM not LRSLR, but the ones yhat are make s3nse as such.
Beeshu advertises ambi stucks as legal performance enhancers. I'm just carrying on a tradition.
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Unless the tournament rules specifies "stock controller only" this is legal. Fightong gamed on stock controllers suck. All fighting tournaments discussed on shoryuken.com allows for custom layouts. Hitboxs are legal for crying out loud ( though it brings up a new issue)
The basic principle in the fighting game comnunity is that one physical control can only actuate one control. Hitboxes add a new principle that combinations that are impossible in the original version ( like pressing left and right at the same time in street fighter is illegal but legal in Track N Field. ) Some retro versions assume a standard controller and the code doesn't account for W+E and does weird things when that happens. Quite a few 5200 games has code that assumes that.
Hitboxes made it possible to press W+E or N+S together. A new product existed just to legalize hitboxes ( and All button controllers, the Hitbox company's name for the category in general, where Hitbox is the leader and originator. Hitbox has become generic, like all tissues beung called Kleenex, even though a tissue could be Puffs) these are called Simultaneous Opposite Cardinal Direction ( abbreciated SOCD) prevention devices.
As for the Master System middle finger pumping, this is unique to the right handed mode. A standard left handed pad lets you index finger pump if the pad is put on the floor.
Besides if I were cheating, would I announce to the net the methods I plan to use? I mainly bring these up so these "grey areas" can be discussed. If a person plans to give away Twitch Bits for beating them in literally any game in my collection, the question of honesty cones up.
I know if i do this, do not mentally spend my bits until i earn then back in virtual combat. If i win, consider it a bonus. Always assume I'll kiss 60% of the bits goodbye unless I earn some back. If I have a (one can dream) 100k bit jackpot (value $1,000) I know the only thing I'm guaranteed is $400. And don't want a complaint that I cheated for any amount, let alone one as large as $600, especially when average people winning bits is part of the appeal of the show. I'd rather be the Goodson/Todman of Twitch and not the Barry/Enright of Twitch.
My real life offline friends occasionally does a free game of chance for easy things to give away on Twitch, like game picks, chat currency, and one real physical prize. I won it. Normally you can stop whenever you want, ( and i seen someone stupid enough to risk the grand prize to try for more frankly things with 90s dotcom stock value [The Simpsons joked that a 90s dotcom upstart used their own stock certificates as toilet paper] and landed on "lose everything". ) But 2 picks ago, i picked "must go twice more" and the next pick was the super prize. He was talking about discussing the prize, but i reminded him I MUST go again. According to the rules, I must must go one more time. If you give this to me, then anyone can refer to this broadcast and make grand prizes easier or else level a charge of letting rules slide selectively by favoring friends over strangers. So to prevent a Barry and Enright type scandal I'll make my forced pick. I neither want cheating to benefit me or screw me. And i picked my required number and hit "lose everything".
I've seen the contest before where 18 tiles are overlays of the results squares, and based on what I know, if it's something like a PC equivalent of Appleworks or Pages, you cannot switch around the underlayer without noticing weird stuff on stream.
So I do believe fate robbed me of my grand prize (which okay in something involving mostly chance and your choice is risk it or stop.) and not my friend rigging it against me, just to prove a point that even his childhood friend and best man can lose.
One time in televised poker history was a four.of a kind was facing a straight flush. I think, even assuming poker games will be televised forever, everyone who seen in will never see on TV again until, as most people would say, one subscribes to Pearly Gates Cable, or as an atheist would say, until you're physically unable to witness it.
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Hopefully coming by a week from tomorrow. Shipping tomorrow hopefully.
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... of the website mentioned.
Power totally died on my Android. let me continue.
I looked up my ftp. I'll link pictures directly now....
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I hsve picturrs of the button layout as an ambidextetous-contoured arngement. In a few minutes and post specific links.
In the meantimez visit my new website (websites...so zeroes) sinistersticks.com
Pictures are in right hand column of
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Yes, i can put up both static pictures too. That's plan b if my outbound cellular net isn't fixed.
Still photos.
By the way. The externals of the exact same stick ate at sinistersticks.com . Look on the right hand colunn. It's the exact same joysticj rotated 180 degrees.
May not be exact to what a specific person would want. but a good arrangement for an off-the shelf stick for many.
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Adsuming my guy quits and sends it monday, and my cellular internet problem is fixed, I'll show it live on twitch., And save the video on you tube.
If he doesn't quit, then we patched it up. But if he does, you'll see it. One of 2 universal enhancements are used. There are 2 other enhancenents that are system-specific, one involves all keypad systems, the other involves Coleco Super Action roller games.
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1 hour ago, x=usr(1536) said:You're right. And I totally get it now, because Street Fighter is SERIOUS BUSINESS.
Damn and blast! You've discovered that I am a part of the Vast Right-Hand Conspiracy!
We bind left-handed children's wrists to the belt loop on the back of their trousers, then force them to write out the dictionary right-handed; any complaints and we beat them with a (right-handed) switch. We also wear monocles and twirl the ends of our moustaches with our right hands while doing so. Sometimes we even laugh cruelly at their misfortune. It's a good life, really: flexible hours, nice benefits and a 401(k), and the sobs of childhood misery echoing throughout the office. Can't really ask for much more than that.
All I know is that I've built around two dozen arcade game control panels in my lifetime in addition to having rebuilt many, many controllers. I've also run my own consulting business for a few years. While that may not make me the world's leading authority on the subject of controls or consulting, it does give me enough experience in both areas to be able to say that you're going to have a difficult time finding anyone who wants to work with you on this.
"I'm going to buy some parts, now you go make them work," is essentially the approach you're taking. Hint: if a client ever tries to pull that one on me, I'm out the door because I know the client will never be satisfied with what ends up being delivered to them, even though they received exactly what it was that they asked for. You need to figure out how to actually collaborate with your consultant in order to come up with a workable solution.
Oh, and if you think anyone who is experienced and capable enough of actually pulling off this project is going to build their resumé on the back of your work... You're way, way off-base.
By the way, i did not get this knowledge infused in me at birth. I looked atound. I did it yhe old fashoinef way, askef people who knee. I also ibdependentlybl observed the rules of y-conbector power with my Hauppauge rocket, for it to y, the s video nerds to be powered. It's too weak if unpowered snd y connected. But if one end of the y is unconnected, but i still use a y connector, it's not too weak.
Each design choice was asked about individually, and each part was confirmed by more than one person on shoryuken.com They said TECHNICALLLY it could be done that way but it's not what I'd choose.
It's just hard to propose all 3 or 4 together, let alone make people understand why i want that particular combination, and make it complete.
That'a why i am only proposing one of the 2 hardest parts. The other part i believe is done. It with shipped to me by next friday.
Let me go ask some shoryuken.com member who competes for xbox points, the right to smack talk, and possibly money if good enough, "What would draw more red flags from refs, your design or mine?"
If personal emjoyment is the goal, or technology advancenent, then your design is better.
However, I'm going to do as twitch stream "Jukebox and Jackpots". where people pay to request games to be played and some of that money can be made back by a winner if they beat me in said game. If I'm giving away bits, and it's based on video game performance, i don't want anyone accusing me of cheating unless I actually am, which I'm trying to show actively i'm not. That's why a lack of specialized computer programming and chips is probably the easiest and safest way of showing it was fair.
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1 hour ago, x=usr(1536) said:OK, but if you're using any kind of modified controller (such as the one you've described here) in competition, how is that not the same thing? It doesn't matter if the changes are analogue or digital; it's still modified.
The controller i described is NOT what I'm using. I showing if I WOULD have done that during a tourment, the model, once it's known it has Macros would he suspicious, if not automatically disqualified.
The hit box is legal, if it corrects the issue if simultaneous opposite cardinal directions. But a right handed arrangenent is legal. Also in a game where any game can possibly be used, butoon remapping helps a right hander. (Think Tutenkham, Side Arms, and Pac-Land) I can show the button swapping is legal if they see no computerized equipment other than a paradise cthulhu, because it conforms to standards They could test my cthulhu to see it it's electronically equal to a real one. Once they did that, they can look at the other equipment, basic 3.5 mm connectors, and y-ed wires connected only on one end. And they'd pass me.
QuoteI'm increasingly of the opinion that your motivation is not getting caught as opposed to solving an actual problem.
This is not Polo. Horses won't crash into each other (or some other greater good won't be prevented) in Street Fighter if lefties face righties.
You have a problem with a right handed stick? Are you a medievalist, forcing a right handed way in all children? Is process > results? There's probably ADA protection I could have for discriminating against righties.
If it's that cheap and easy, why aren't you doing it yourself?
QuoteNow I know that you have absolutely no idea how any of this actually works.
I know the theory. Unfortunatelty, i don't have the tools or physical talent to make a passable, let alone somewhat professional job.
This is too specidic and narrow of a skill to get training on.
I lnow that usb to other device coding is harder to find than a cthulhu. Plus there are problems right handers have in games the left handers don't.
A predefined USB adapter and a Pi remapper box requires programming knowledge. $programmers > $woodworkers/electricians.
Plus it gets improves the resume of whoever i hire and my friends list gets bigger.
QuoteThe next time I hear the voice in the back of my head telling me that the thread is best avoided, I'm going to give it more credence.
Next friday, you may be a believer if my cell phone speed can actually speed beyond my dsl. I show it, and open it and show the internal wiring, and show it works left and right handed.
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A non-computerized system has 2 advantages over a computerized one using RaspberryPi
1) It causes less ping. And ever since we swapped from CRT TVs to digiital displays, there have been 10x as many virtual lives lost than the whole CRT era. (A Public Service Message for the Cathoide Ray Tube Preservaiton Society) And likewise digital manipulation, if not done right, can delay inputs. Plus it requires someone with programing knowledge.
2) If I win some sort of video game competition and people inspect my stick and see a "non-standard computer chip" in the wiring scheme they can run tests on it, and programing is so open ended may find a way I could possibly cheat.
The reason for number 2, and the inspiration for my flippable design, was the InterAct Alloy Dreamcast Stick. I noticed it was programable, so I did a few things, (obviously not when competing against someone) I could "flip my stick" and make it right handed. That’s how I discovered both the general theory of doing that as well as the "smiling contour problem." But also I could flip my stick and make every initial leftward and rightward movement start with a "Dragon Punch motion" upon initial activation, automatically, every time, even when attempting to not do dragon punch motion upon first movement.
Those are the 2 main reasons why I want it done analoguely. Peace of mind in both no ping time, and not open myself on cheating accusations.
By the way it’s also both cheaper and easier to replace with existing cheap equipment ( just find 3.5 mm Male-Male cable) than a custom program, and Pi machine
Plus you have to deal with USB translation into proprietary joystick code. Coding (going from an uncoded format, like one wire=one control method to a coded controller language) is the easiest of the 3 methods, with the other 2 being decoding (taking a coded signal and breaking it into its discrete elements) and the worst is transcoding (going from PS2 to Dreamcast for example.) The reason why the Cthulhu works so well on so many systems is becase all it is is a joystick coder, no decoding, no transcoding.
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Sorry forgot to press post at 12 am eastern, was drawn from smartphone.
Most are parts, but by next friday. I'll have a stick working for all systems that cthulhu and possibly direct adapters can support. It just takes a week to ship to me cheaply.
You'll find out when i find out.
I'll have to get my data working better. Sprint is currently worse than my awful dsl. It's great everyehere EXCEPT my house. Where i need it most.
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5 hours ago, PlaysWithWolves said:I said a Paradise Cthulhu to mean it is not built by shoryuken.com user name Toodles himself. But licensed to Paradise Arcade Shop for them to build according to his plans.
I haven't heard my previous stick maker, Stan, lie to me. So if he says it works in both left and right handed mode for all the Paradise Cthulhu-compatible systems he could test ( all except NES and TG16) and all worked, i'll believe him until I see affirmative (or contrary) proof when i receive the stick itself. Eiyher way, I'll know in a week
If this works, then this proves my design, and hopefully show it by next friday on twitch.
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8 hours ago, doubledown said:Here's one on ebay:
Sorry couldn't resist.
So do you envision 3 separate enclosures
1 - Joystick housing
2 - Wire connecting "switchboard" housing
3 - Control PCBs housing
or is this all housed in one unit?
1 there's a joystick and a pcb housing that's required, and already done by Stan my man.
2. An optional housing are 2 "single joystick" boxes that can be arranged in 2 ways, for lefty and rightie play. This should only used if a) the game and b) the operating system are unable to change buttons.
3 telephone operator describes the technology, and is used metaphoricly. I don't want a reassignment chip because people will accuse me of having a cheat chip, even if i didn't use it.
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Besides i got a constant stream of money because im on disability. Ok I've paid around $400 so far for a cthulhu, joystick parts, and all cthulhu and other adapters so far. And they all work. Since i hace more time than money, i pay over time
Plus I planted the seed to finish the rest.
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3 hours ago, doubledown said:I agree with Shawn. There are some of the OP posts that are almost nonsensical and incoherent, and/or full of typos...yet some seem fine. But I understand that you want a controller with a joystick and x number of buttons. You then want to have a "magic" box which would contain a hacked PCB of each of the different controllers you would want to replace for every system you would want to use it with (or some other type of magic electronics). Then you connect cables from input devices to controller port outputs so that any input can be any output for any controller/system. I think this would be a very "messy" controller/design, and assume your cost would be in the neighborhood of $500-$1000+ depending on components used and assuming you can find someone who would have any interest in this project. Out of curiosity, why the aversion to separate controllers for separate systems?
First, i saved lots of money by
a) using a Paradise Cthulhu, and appropriate adapters directly.
b) Since a Cthulhu is electronically equivalent to the original controller, i can do ps2> 360, wii/u classic, xbox one plus gc>n64, and snes>3do, and ps3> wii u/switch classic. You get one translation for free before worrying about side effects
That part us already done.
The middle box is for INTV, CV, 5200 and Jag. If i want a fight stick button to equal a particular key.
By the wY i have 20+ 3.5 mm m/m cables and 100 3.5mn solderable femaies and many db37s i can send.
The joystick and cthulhu already hoiked up to each other with a db37 for both hands.
Thr reason i need remapping is thar as a right handed gamer. Too nany gsmes are not built for righties, and conversion are different for each gane.
The keypad just needs to run out using a 16+ pin standard, and be dealt with on a system by system basis.
3breasons for uding thd same style over and ovet.
1) digital joysticks don't vary between systens when you padhack.
2) it's easier to carry abd cheaper oer console for a compobent system. .. if i can make ut s breeze to change.
u3)using the same joystick parts is easy as long as, from the joystick's perspective, you rewire before the raw signals are encoded by a pcb.... Better than dealing with coded signals, which need computer code understanding.
The newest systems that needs a padhacks atr Jaguar and Genesis 6 and 3 button. All other's sydtems are older.
This is probably the most complex. I also hsve a Edladdin CVSAC PCB. And the INTV and 5200 use 2 pins combonations out of 7/8 for row and column, anc i asume normal vontroller logic for button matrisies is OR logic. And the INTV Is in krypsf mode for obe frame when exactly 1 of the 3 fire button pibs are used.
So one more time. The joystick.the most important pcb, and the wiring system all work. You don't need to do that. All the rest i'm asking for one at a time. The next main thing i need is a joystick remapping system as described.
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Did you look at the audio wiring? Those 2 files show what pins are wired to the L and R of 3.5mm females. Look at those ti see what db37 pins are wired to what 3.5 mm females.
It goes from db37 controller to 3 5 mn female (but only one of the 2 ends, sort of like a y adapter g8ving you a M/F choice of SVideo, abd my capture card working with a y vuy only one end beung used ). Ti 3.5 mm m&m ehich are plugged into either the keypad adapter, or the output end, which is 3.5mm female, then runs unto pins of db37 and then connect to the joystick PCB.
Tge audio left is the hookup for the left stick arrangement, and the right file shows right joystick.
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On 10/13/2019 at 3:01 PM, PlaysWithWolves said:Nobody can understand what you mean, @tripletopper.
Can you boil it down to something like, "I'd like an Atari CX40 with a button on both sides and works with PCs"? Or something like that?
If it's not a simple change of a current design, you may be looking at a lot of money. I'm not an electronics guy, though.
I'll need a "telephone ooerator switchboard" with 3.5 mm females attached to db37s connected to the 3.5s in an organized way. The purpose is a raw input rerouter.
I'll provide the connectors of db37 ,3.5 female solderables, and 3 5 mm male to 3 5 mm male cable.
Its purpose is to be a button remapping system for games that dob't have them in software, or in OS.
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By the way, don't let the name Audio fool you, Audio refers to the 3.5 mm female connectors I uses telephone operator holes.
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Maybe I'm better visually than typographically. I am good when I speak, sometimes, to certain people.
Let's hope Atariage accepts PDFs. Thihs is the main picture
By the way, what you need to know is that tis goes in between my uncoded joystick and my PCB, whihc normally connect with DB37s.
These devices go in between.
ANd I'm assuming the extra wiring is so it can be inverted for left and right handed play.
The contraption is a Controller remapping device:
3BoxesConnected.pdf AudioWiringLeft.pdf AudioWiringRight.pdf FightStick.pdf
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46 minutes ago, PlaysWithWolves said:Nobody can understand what you mean, @tripletopper.
Can you boil it down to something like, "I'd like an Atari CX40 with a button on both sides and works with PCs"? Or something like that?
If it's not a simple change of a current design, you may be looking at a lot of money. I'm not an electronics guy, though.
I'll need a "telephone ooerator switchboard" with 3.5 mm females attached to db37s connected to the 3.5s in an organized way. The purpose is a raw input rerouter.
I'll provide the connectors of db37 ,3.5 female solderables, and 3 5 mm male to 3 5 mm male cable.
Its purpose is to be a button remapping system for games that dob't have them in software, or in OS.
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by the end of the day today I'll have moved my joystick website to that URL and I'll describe what I have done so far what I want and what still needs to be done.
I just noticed that most joystick makers only make the mods that adjustments they are acceptable to and usually at most limit use a request to one large request that's not easily understood.
To make an ambidextrous joystick in a way that would be a model for Mass manufacture stick I have to implement a few extra new features,. And I have to add another way of thinking to use Edladdin's PCB in conjunction with all the other pcbs I could work with it.
The thing I need next that takes the most cooperation is a telephone operator style 3.5 mm cable system to make any button reprogrammable as any other button because most sold games do not allow button swapping and some games only allows certain button swaps, and when you have more than two buttons it's not as easy as a b / b a switch. I don't know what game I'll encounter in the future or hitting me in the past play rather be prepared for it than avoid it and come up with it later, which would be more complex and more expensive.
probably the simplest easiest layman's way to do it is probably just connect 13.5 mm cable from side a side B and route the joystick like you are routing telephone calls like an old fashioned telephone operator before direct dial
More details by Monday on sinistersticks.com
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6 hours ago, stupus said:wow
Sorry. When you're very specific, you tend to be wordy. I'lll try to organize it better by tomorrow on sinistersticks.com
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Philosophical question (organizing my collection)
in Classic Console Discussion
Posted
My friend won as the grand prize in a 00s national basic cable game show, Life To the Power of X, an atcade cabinet designed to play Xbox ganes. It wad the 5th one at the time, with 2 of the other 4 going to Justin Timberlake and Snoop Doggy Dogg.
How would THAT be classified under this System? You don't plug it Into a TV, but it takes discs.
As for games, segregated by console, orgainzed in a way that makes sense with storage space being more important than organuzational consistency, and, within a system, ABC by title, except with obvious sequels on the same system not alphabetically close being grouped together by Series Name ( Rise of the Tomb Raider (Xbox One)bwould be filed very close to Tomb Raider (Xbox One) instead of in the Rs going purely by title.
Other exception, A, An, and The being used as an article. For the 2600 game The A Team, "The" is used as an article, thus skipped. "A" is not, thus not skipped.
Accotdingto Sideshow Bob Logic, if he named a book after his tatoo, "Die Bart Die" it would be sorted under B because the tatoo is in German, and Die is a feninine subjective article, literally "The Bart The" ( kind of like how English pronouns he and him are different depending on whether its the grammatical subject or object. Getman articles have that property, sort of like A and An being pronounciation-sensitive articles). Hence why Die Macher, a famous boatd game, can't be found in the Ds.