tripletopper

Yes I understand there's an independent X and Y, and if it were not for the physical circle restrictor, the X can be actuated 100% and the y can be actuated 100% together, and the radius would be 141% using x,y to r,A conversions. Also my previous post mentions a clever way of using an 80% minimum actuation to turn an analog stick into a 4-way. But the Competition Pro ruins it with simultaneous 100% x and 100%y

The problem is that the Atari 5200 has a physical stick limiter which keeps it at a maximum 100%, so only a broken joystick, when converting from x,y to r,A is where r>100 hence the N and E simultaneously in some programs thinking it's 141% Some games use that fact to turn it into a 4-way stick: If any direction is 80% or greater, then the perpendicular is always below 60%. So there's a diagonal dead zone. I know Popeye has this problem when using a Competition Pro, and actuating a diagonal. other games include maybe Mountain King, maybe Wizard of Wor, or any other 4-way game you can think of can potentially have the problem. It may not be a radius problem, but programming assumption that assumes there are no diagonals by making the threshold 80% If there is a guarantee of no simultaneous X and Y due to the circle limit, a lazy way to save a few bits is to institute the 80% standard. If the joystick forces the issue by physically limiting non-simultaneous 80% horizontal and 80% vertical, then you can save bits by not writing more complex conditionals. And in those days, you were fighting for K like Atari 2600 programmers were fighting for bits. But the Competition Pro threw that out the window. Then there is another unintended competitive consequence: the diagonal speed boost. In something like The Dreadnaught factor, if the controls are analog, then the maximum radius is 100%, because the joystick has a physical circle limiter. But would it considered cheating for the purposes of Twin Galaxies records to have a Competition Pro because your diagonals have a speed of 141% of the cardinal maximum. You can cover more ground 2 dimensionally, or you can weave up and down as you move left at full speed whether you go straight-left, up-left, or down-left. So for the reasons of both 4 way games not working right as well as cheating in games that have a diagonal speed boost, maybe there should be a default 100% Maximum mode, where pressing a diagonal automatically makes it 100% by actuating a dome 2-axis potentiometer as 100% by 45 degrees. and to unlock "diagonal boost mode", a button must be held. Which means, when diagonal, the 2 corresponding cardinals equal 70.7% If I'm going for a Twin Galaxies record on Twitch and people try and don't get the diagonal sped boost with default 5200 controllers, people will accuse me of cheating. I would have to put that disclaimer on all my 5200 twitch streams. (once I get 5G, but slow internet is another issue.) I feel sorry for someone who innocently breaks a record and then finds out the joystick gave a programming advantage with the diagonal speed boost, then it gets challenged by someone who shows diagonal speed on a default controller. Then they have to make 2 separate divisions, one with a 100% maximum limiter, and one with a diagonal speed boost. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Also about the buttons: I'm thinking given the following mapping for the fight stick (Street Fighter 15th Anniversary stick): [] ^ R1 L1 X O R2 L2 The 5200 buttons should equal: 1 2 3 ? B T 0 ? That's assuming the bottom button is the "main" rapid fire button, and the concept of left fire and right fire is not involved, like Tutankham (was there a 5200 version of that game?) I have a little obsession about right handed fight sticks. I successfully righthanded my Street Fighter 15, becuase that stick has an acceptable right-handed contpour or rectangular. If the game has a concept of main and aux fire, then that maps correctly when horizontally flipped. But in the case of Tutankham: ? 3 2 1 ? 0 T B If B=left and T=right then you got an inverision problem. Right button to fire left and left button to fire right. Also if in Countermeasure the 3 symbol buttons make sense where they are numbered 1, 2, and 3, AND make sense in a left-to-right fashion, MAYBE a backwards mapping of the number keys. That way Countermeasure you can use the joystick buttons for typing in the launch cancellation code, and the 0 button can be used for Hyperspace in Defender. Those are probably the 2 keypad-heaviest games. Space Shuttle uses a lot of keys, but lightly. Same with RealSports games and Star Raiders I assume. L2 can equal pause, Start can equal start, and Select can equal reset. So you got one button left. Keep in mind this would probably be the best mapping for fight sticks. I understand pads may be different. So maybe holding the last button, the L1, together with face buttons can activate Pad mode, Street Fighter Joystick mode, Ascii Joystick mode (which has a different mapping), and 100% Maximum toggle on/off, always resets to Max on. The memory would hold the other 4 items.) So what is the button mapping you originally have on the 5200 controller for top and bottom buttons? Was Defender hyperspace and Countermeasure codes included? If you assume the standard Dual Shock 2, if the SNES Nuts have their way, and it's mapped likeMario, Mega Man, and Super Ghouls N Ghosts, this would probably be the default arrangement: --^-- []---O --X-- equals --?-- B---0 --T-- If I had needed a pad for analog games (Even though I'd argue centering resistance in the Left stick makes "dialing a position in Kaboom and Super Breakout in one dfimension, and Star Wars in 2D, verfy strenuous, inaccurate, and tiring. So I'd use a Best Electronics rebuilt 5200 standard stick. No centering resistance means more accurate posiitoning in those games. I might use it for games where you HAVE to accurately find center, yet can use analog, like Galaxian and Dreadnaught Factor.)), I'd two-finger the pad and use: --0-- ?---T --B-- Probably 0 is the best third button because I believe a couple other games besides Defender use 0 as a third button. I gave my opinion about these matters. I want to hear others. (The opinion is admittedly long due to a lack of real-world socializing, and 100% of my socializing is online, except for a few offline friends I knew before I went online and that's once every 2-3 months.)

(mistyped, complete post below.)

Also a question about the digtiization: If N=100% North and E=100% East, and there's no other processing then those 2 combine to 141% NE, becuase in the original 5200 control design, there is no circle limiter in the logic of the potentiometers, butt here is a "physical plastic circle limiter" on the joystick. The Compettion coin is a simple joystick that actuates

Also isn't PS2 a little overkill, because PS1 has just digital buttons, but PS2 has analog face, D Pad and shoulder buttons? Wouldn't it be easier to work with a standard PS1, or if you want analog, a PS1 Dual Shock 1. And doesn't a Dual Shock 2 default down to a Dual Shock 1 when plugged in a PS1 anyway? Why work with a PS2 when PS1 is fine?

No one is answering this question. If you plug in a digital PS1 pad, or a fight stick with only a digital control, will the d-Pad/stick map to the 5200 analog stick? Never got that answer.

Also about Total Carnage, if I remember right is a twin stick shooter, like Smash TV. The arcade version as demonstrated on Midway's Arcade Treasures 3 on Game Cube had a move stick, a fire stick, and a bomb button as Z? I don't know what the arrangement is on the Jaguar, but an SNES Smash TV arrangement with Y=north fire, Z=west fire, C = south fire, B=east fire, pressing any 2 non-contradictory diagonals as that diagonal, and X, A, L and/or R being the bomb button, makes perfect sense to me. It doesn't sound like they used that setup.

It looks like, unless someone can make a strong defense of the Jaguar version of NBA Jam over SNES, Saturn, or PS1 versions, there are no UNIQUELY Jaguar games that need more than 2 Pro Pads that run on one console and one TV. And unless there is a Jag Link game that hooks up more than 2 people, there are no UNIQUELY Jaguar games that require more than 2 Pro Pads period Is literally the only 3+ player game where the Pro Pad comes in handy NBA Jam, a game that's shared by many consoles? If you're a die-hard completist Jag fan with 3 frequent friends and no other systems from that era, then it's smart to get 4 Pro Pads. Otherwise assuming you take care of your pads, most people will only need 2 at most. Remember: this is coming from a Johnny-come-lately toe-dipper, not a true back-in-the-day, pedal-to-the-metal Jag fan. Can someone who bleeds Luma, Red, and Chroma minus Red give a reason why YOU would want more than 2 Jag Pro pads, other than wear and tear?

As for the INTV FB<-> INTV 2 converters, if you don't want to add that functionality, may I refer you to intelliviisonaries.com the INTV podcast, and Nurmix uses it as a store for his INTV FB-> INTV 1 and INTV FB-> INTV 2 passive controller adapters. I own a pair of INTV FB-> INTV 1 adapters, even installed them myself, and bought 3 Flashback pads, 2 for the new console, and one to pad hack or a fight stick. If you don't want to add the feature, consider it taken care of. Unfortunately, I understand pad hacking enough to know in most consoles (North=1 AND East = 1) electronically equals NE. The 2 toughest system to deal with that problem are the 5200 and Intelllivision. With the 5200, 100% N + 100 % E = 141% NE. Only a couple games go into error when that happens, and that can be prevented with a mechanical 4/8-way switchable gate which prevents diagonals. Intellivision requires actual processing brains because one pin does not equal one direction. Northeast is a separate actuator and not just the electronic sum of the North plus East. It would require some sort of circuit somewhere which either on the joystick, actuate another switch when the 2 cardinals are combined, or what you're doing on the Inteliivision. Since it's stupid to re-invent the wheel, I'll wait until this comes out. I may get either one Genesis and One Jaguar or 2 Genesis ones, depending on how "keypad heavy" certain Intelliivison games are. I guess it depends on what my main 2up, either my firends or my brother, want for intellivision, either a Genesis or a Jaguar.

I'm mainly going to do it on November the third becuase of "my word is my bond" thing i TRY to live up to if I can. I don't know whether to root for a sellout before November 3rd or not, both for my sake and for Starwinder's. I hope he sells out soon after. Did Starwinder make his minimum to break even yet? If November 3rd comes and there's a pair, I'll pick a pair up. If not, congratulations Starwinder. And Starwinder, I'm trying to keep in the spirit of this by keeping one of the 2 controllers, because except for NBA Jam, (and even that I can use a fight stick, or 2-finger the action buttons,) you don't need 3 or more Pro controllers, assuming you take good care of them. A lot of people believe the spirit of the extra supply is to get GAME PLAYERS a chance to play games with the Jag Pro. Since I already have one, and you must get 2 to buy, so it is in the spirit of the order to buy 2 and sell one on ebay. That's also why I'm waiting for November 3rd: the Jaguar doesn't mean enough to my younger life to be in love with it. I was more of a Saturn guy. If it's there I'l get a pair, if not, hopefully bigger fans than I and not speculators bought most these. That's why I'm also keeping one. Since i already have one, I asked Starwinder if keeping one and ebaying the other is in the spirit of the production. According to what he emailed me, Starwinder cares less about what happens to them than some posters at Atari Age do. I was honest with Starwinder, told him my intentions, and he said go ahead: Wait until November 3rd, and if there are none on ebay at that time, then buy a pair and ebay one of them. I don't know whether to root for the sellout before November 3rd or against.

1) That's when I get paid. I'm on Social Security disability, and have to wait until the 3rd of the month. 2) I don't have credit cards, only debit cards. I usually don't borrow. 3) I got to sell my extra Colecoviiosn once I get it repaired by Thursday. When that's done. I'll get it. 4) It's not THAT important to me where I HAVE to have one at all costs. If it happens to be there when I get enough money, fine, I'll get one. Otherwise I'll just have to live with just ONE genuine Pro Pad and no repro. I'm mainly doing it because I was on the preorder list. It it sells out before I buy, then Starwinder doesn't need my purchase. If it's there, I'll take advantage of it. By the way, Starwinder gave me implied permission to sell both, but I respect both the Jaguar community and the properties of the Jag Pro controller where if get one pair, I'll keep one and sell the other on ebay, and be honest about it being a repro on ebay.

Well I didn't know how ketypad heavy the AVP game would be. Probably the most "keypad heavy" concept I can think of is my idea for "Dancing fingers bomb", if it were actually made. A game I thought would make an interesting "Go to the Party Jag" party mini-game. Not good enough to be it's own cartridge, but could be part of a fun mini-game package. By the way "Dancing Fingers Bomb" is kind of like a keypad finger Twister. You have to press 6 buttons at a time, then release one button and press a different button, while keeping the other 5 held. Let your finger off the wrong button or touch a wrong button. and BOOM. As for keypad heaviness for existing games, the only keys in heavy use are 46789, hence why the Pro pad was made. Wouldn't that make it MORE vital to have quick access to 46789, as opposed to taking one out and putting in a shift button. If none of the other keys need quick and heavy access, then plugging in a Jag pad fore the keypad would be cool. I guess there are n ture 8 button games, except the full-keypad games. Most either use 46 or 789, usually not both, but both ARE there for the options..

Just looking for some thrift store finds. I mainly bought it as a "just in case" purchase. Luckily I found Atari Karts for $1, and a genuine Pro Pad for $20 afterwords.

I'd probably use my fight stick for any game where the concept of a left and right shoulder button doesn't have to specifically be a shoulder button. (Atari Karts is the biggest example of a specific shoulder button requirement that would be awkward with a fight stick.) I'd use the fight stick for any 3 button game that doesmn't use heavy keypad. I' was considering hooking up an external keypad to my joystick, which would be outside the buttons. for other consoles like the 5200, Colecovision and Intellivision. I guess 4 would be the "consumable klck" (3K) button and the 6 would be the "consumable punch" or 3P buttton, if we were using the saturn Street Fighter standard. I guess depending on the price vs versatility of a Jag Pad padhack vs a PS1 adapter I'll get either one . A pad hack would be more versatile, and less confusing for keypad heavy games, abnd it would aklso let me "pick my other 5 main buttons if I don't like the Jag Pro default, but a PS2-> Jag adpater would be better if it were significantly cheaper than having someone mannually padhack a Jag 3 button.. About what percentage of jaguar games are considered "pad heavy" which you must quickly use more than just 46789? I think AVP would be considered a VERY Pad heavy game. All the keys look occupied. Any others? So Do I hold the 'light punch" button when I power on the Jaguar with the stick already plugged in, or when I plug it in after I turn on the jag? I assume holding while resetting wouldn't work becuase it doesn't choke of power to the PS1-> Jaguar adapter. Also, if you can get these semi-mass produced, ToTotek might be interested in selling your PS1-> Jaguar adapter. Also, you don't have to use an external extra keyboard, Just use a second Joystick in plug and let it be a passthrough, so you can activate the keypad ona real jag Pad mounted next to the fight stick. Maybe use the "Heavy Punch" button as the alpha and beta as the no-shift external Jag keypad mode.

Well, if they're still available by Novedmber 3rd, then I'll sell my extra Colecoviiosn console only, (no power or joysticks) and see if I can get a decent bit for it. If that happens to add up to a decent bit, then I'l buy 2 Atari Jag Pro Re Pros. I got a message from Starwinder saying "If I decide to order them, whatever I do with them is my business." So If I order them, I'll see if I can get $60+ for one. If I do, hurray for me! If I don't, I've got a friend who owns a Jaguar who might want a little Christmas gift, who, as far as I know, owns Zero Jag Pros, Atari Brand or otherwise. I promise I will clearly state that this is a retro enthusiast's small run mass produced reproduction who made an agreement with Atari to continue supplying the retro market. I'll tell them if you search hard enough, you can find them elsewhere. One of the terms of the agreement was that everything is genuinely accurate according to the patent (which is expired, hence legal) except for one small indicator, a lack of an engraved Atari Logo on the controller. (which is still under renewed copyright protection, hence, why it's not there.) I'll mention I'm not trying to pass off a reproduction as a genuine, and is mainly for game players who don't want to keep pressing keypad buttons when 4, 6, 7, 8, and 9 are more easily reachable as L, R, Z, Y, and X. Those looking for genuine Atari units should go elsewhere. And I'll tell ebay buyers that this is a singleton from the original producer who only sells them in pairs. I already have one Pro Controller, and for all games, the most you really need is 2 controllers ,except for one game, NBA Jam TE, which a) is not a strict requirement for the operation of the game, but could be comfortable if not two-fingering it, and b) is available for other systems including SNES, Genesis, Playstation 1, and Saturn. Soi if you already own one, and don't need to buy 2, tis might be your auction. I'll put a minimum to make it worth it, but no maximum, but would be worth it relative to a genuine one.

Should I Assume Alpha arrangements are for Street fighter anniversary sticks and similarly mapped PS fight sticks, and the Beta arrangements are for ones are for Ascii fight sticks, and similarly mapped PS Fight Sticks? Should I also assume the (-) button should be labeled a "shift key" that holding the - key plus another key simultaneously gets? I'm not familiar enough with Jaguar Games to know what games would requires that many buttons. And what games require quick access to any button other than the 4, 6, 7, 8, and 9? if my theory is correct, then the 4 and 6 are more important to have quick access to BOTH vs having ONE of them PLUS a shift key for 7 other keys. Unless there is something in some game with I would rather have a separate external keypad for those keypad buttons because you need A, B, C, X, Y, Z, L, and R with quick access, and the other buttons are not as necessary to access lightning quick. But I do like the PS Dual Shock/Street Fighter 15/AsciiWare switch, even though if you use the fight stick a lot, I'd probably rather have a physical A-B-C slider switch than hold a hot key at plug in. I may forget and lose the instructions and complain, and not remember what button to activate for the Street Fighter 15. I would prefer Playstation + 12 button external keypad over Saturn + 12 button keypad + extra auxiliary button, mainly because of the "double translation problem" Going the Playstaiton directly to Jaguar is less likely to cause errors on the Jaguar than PS1-> Saturn -> Jaguar. And also there are way many more Playstation-> X adapters than Saturn -> X adapters. Tototek sells many for systems OLDER than PS1 like SNES, Genesis/Master System, TG16, Neo Geo, Saturn, and 3DO (even though Tototek's lacks a multiplayer daisy chain port), and elsewhere you can find adapters for every NEWER system except the Nintendo Switch. I have ones for Xbox, Game Cube, Dreamcast, 360, PS3, Wii Classic, Wii U Classic, and Xbox One. ( I strangely enough don't have a PS4 for 2 reasons. One is no 4k movies on a PS4 Pros, and the other is all of my offline friends are Xbox since the 360, and only the "Star" of our group, Zophar321, had a PS3 too, and he mainly used it for PS3 exclusives and as his main Blu Ray player, kind of like me.) Even though the Saturn might be a better form factor for correctly adapting the pro controller to your fingers/thumbs with the 3 columns x 2 rows + 2 shoulders, and may be welcome if you own Saturn pads (which I do and if it's cheaper than the Starwinder Jag Pro Re-Pros, would rather go with this and save the Jag Pro Re Pros for true Jaguar fans instead of dabblers like myself,) but if I'm trying to make my right-handed joystick work of all my systems, PS is better. But I do see the virtue of a Saturn-> Jaguar Pro adapter.

Do all the Jag Pro pads act as the same keys universally, or are they changeable by the software? (Is Z, Y, X, 4, and 6, ALWAYS 1, 2, 3, 4, and 6, respectively, or can it be changed by the software) If the software can change it, maybe I SHOULD get that second Jag Pro pad for a fight stick. But if they universally map, I'll just use a standard Jag Pad, and augment it with a 3.5 mm system where any button on my joystrick can equal any key. By the way, in street fighter terms, (just in terms of corresponding button layout, there is no Street Fighter Anything for the Jaguar, but there is for the 3DO, and there is Primal Rage for both with a similar layout.) is L the 3K button and R the 3P punch button in a standard 4 column x 2 row layout, or vice versa? I know C is QK, B is MK, A is HK, Z is QP, Y is Mp, and X is HP. I recognize the 3 column x 2 row layout that made Street Fighter famous. Also has anyone considered a Saturn controller to Jag console with an add on keypad that can be fit on a Saturn Controller, with the 12 keys and the Option Key separate. Becuase the Saturn has a 3x2 layout and 2 shoulder buttons like the Jaguar Pro, just no keypad and option button.

Having the bottom button to the right of top button feels like the right-handed Sega Master System Joystick where on the left-handed pad you can rapid fire the index finger in the 1 button on your index finger, but on right handed mode, button 1 was on the left, which means the rapid fire is on the middle finger, not the index finger. A=Bottom B=Top makes sense on a Sega Genesis controller, but makes no sense to me on Jaguar. I say C=Bottom, B=Top, A=Pause, Start=Start and Option=Reset Then again the Y/B formation on an SNES joypad makes no sense to me because you need a double jointed thumb to operate jump and fire on Mega Man X as well as i can a B/A two-finger method, but what do I know?

Don't forget to check the D-Pad. That's what I'm mainly interested in. I guess if you use it with a Dual Shock 1, it starts as a PS1 digital, and pressing Analog Mode makes it analog. Try it with a dual shock 1. The only thing a Dual Shock 2 adds is pressure-analog buttons and pressure-analog cross pad. Is the mapping X = bottom button (assuming the bottom is intended to be the main button on the 5200, which I believe is right,) and O=top button? That would be perfect for my fight stick. But it might be awful if you use an actual pad if you do the "one thumb on 2 buttons" thing like on Mega Man X for SNES that I can't do well enough. What would start, pause and reset be? Pause=PS start, Start=PS Select, and reset on an "external button" so you don't accidentally reset? And since some games use keypad presses, how do you deal with the other 6 buttons and the Keypad?

I kind of made a word to Starwindr, so it's up to him to release me. That was before I was double thinking the ebay prices going down. But I got a solutoin. If I can't up sell it, I know a firend who alos has a Jaguar> I could give it to him for Christmas if it doesn't upsell, or I can forget about upselling and give it as a gift to my Jaguar-owning friend. That is if Starwinder wants to hold me to my word and he considers it goash to sell one and make a profit against his intentions. I would keep one of them. They're like Lays Potato Chips. Betcha can't have just one.

I'm not INTENTIONALLY sniffing them to get high. I just notice a pain in my nose whenever some vapor comes up my nose. I don't know if that's sell or tactile sensation.

Haven't written in 3 weeks, any updates? Are you waiting on the slow boat from China? Are you trying to find a way to power it without running into the Genesis/SegaCD/32X problem? Are you adding Flashback switches on both sides? Also I've had problems when I "double translated" PS2-> Xbox 360-> Switch, but got much better results going from PS2->GameCube->Switch via Wii U GC Port Adapter. So even though it MAY work with PS2 fight stick being double translated, there's a good chance it won't. If it doesn't I assume it would work with a fight stick pad-hack modded Genesis 3-button or Atari Jaguar Standard controller? Sign me up for one of each: One Genesis, One Jaguar. I'm definitely having modded a Genesis 3 button pad for the few 3-button Genesis games , master System and 7800, and aJag pad too.

If you can make it so that EITHER the D-pad OR the the analog stick makes the digital joystick move, I'l sign up for one. Also, this may be a little nitpciky, but... can it be fixed so that 100% N + 100% E does not equal 141% 45 degrees north or east, which should fix the final problems with the Competition Pro Joystick on those few digital games which crash, like Popeye, because they assume if you're over 80% E, you'll automatically be less than 60% North because 60^2+80^2=100^2, which doesn't hold up in the Competition Pro, becuase it's possible to actuate 100% N and 100% E simultaneously. so a 70.7% actuation of N and E on NE would be perfect, or an artificial limiter of "distance" to the 100% radius. By the way, I'm mainly looking for a fight stick adapter for the Atari 5200 that works with a Playstation fight stick. So if it reads the D-PAd right, then I'm good. I'll order one. Also, would there be a way to the keypad buttons you need to ma to additional buttons? Not a big priority, but would be nice. Finally, I know a a guy who wires fight sticks to analog inputs of pad-hacked Playstation 1 controllers. If you have the knowledge to convert digital joyhstick moves into anlaog directions, please share it with MAtthew Ummo, who said he might be able to do it if he knew more about the 5200 controller. He does this for PS1 all the time. He might be able to do N64. But he doesn't know enough about the 5200. I'm looking to buy one.

I'm a reverse speculator. I'm hoping enough speculators come through, enough to clear the inventory, but not enough to deny authentic Atari Jaguar players first, then collectors second, their desired Jag Pros. Then they'll panic and garage sale, and that's when I'll swoop. Also reverse speculation is a lot cheaper than positive speculation. If I'm wrong, it costs me nothing. If I'm right I'd, buy my second Jag Pro at a way cheaper fire sale price. And I'm enough of a player to know the "ludo value" of a second Jag Pro. i wouldn't probably be here if I didn't find Atari Karts for $1 loose at Slipped Discs in Brunswick, then did research and found the Pro Controller shoulder button info. If I didn't find Atari Karts for $1, and bought a Jaguar a year before then, I'd probably ignore this. I just hope the high market prices are driven more by collectors and speculators than players. If players truly desire it, and the market STILL isn't in balance after a supply shot in the arm., it will remain high. If collectors want it for its sheer rarity or speculators buy low sell high, and if they reject the Jag Pros as inauthentic, Starwinder made a small, but acceptable profit catering to true Jag fans, who get equivalent equipment for less, a few people (other than me) in my sitch who just need one will sell one of the 2, and then we'll see if the collectors and speculators truly reject the Re-pros. If they do, then Satrwinder did a good thing by making copies of equal "ludo value" that are more affordable than the "trophy copies".

That's exaclty what I said. I can hope that the re-pros on resale actually go for less than the $60 each fr retail, plus adding to the fact I can buy one. I might partake in one iat quantity one for a less price. Plus it's even rarer I'll find a 2UP for Atari Karts for more than a 5-minute curiosity. I agree it's just not worth it for me. And I'd fell bad if i deprive a controller from someone who can use 2. But if iI had either a) more Jaguar games, b) or a second player who wanted to partake in Jaguar Pro conroller games more, I'd pick one up. Most of the fans who write here, they "go to the party Jag" more often than I do. Knowing how what goes around comes around, I would feel like a wasteful hoarder by buying 2 and selling one, just to have one which goes against the spirit of the reproduction. And there's probably something rare I want, and knowing my luck, would be taken by ebay hoarders. Gaming equipment is primarily meant to be enjoyed, not stored and hoarded. I should just be glad I have one genuine Jag controller. Also in addition to playing Atari Karts, it represents a bargain hunter's sport trophy of the thriil of the sport of the ebay and thrift store hunt. I still have my story of how I found one "not labeled as a pro controller", spotted it, bought it now for $20 when they retailed for $80 in 2003. Obviously, most of you are bigger Atari Jaguar fans than I am. You should love what you collect. I loved the first Jag Pro controller enough to unlock Atari Karts, but not enough to share irt with an elusive hard-to-find 2UP at these prices (which is THANKFULLY WAY CHEAPER than ebay OEM Jag-Pro prices) If I were richer and didn't have my fight stick project I was working on or had more Jaguar games that can use it and a 2UP, I'd take one and my chances on selling the other on ebay. Enjoy. Finally, I tried to convince my only Jaguar owning friend to go in halves and split them one apiece. He sad no. He has other priorities, and not just video game priorities.