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tripletopper

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Posts posted by tripletopper


  1. Yes, but how many games support both 3+ players AND Jag Pro controllers? By the way, I don't have an ST, but I know if I want to play 2 Player Atari Karts, I can with a second Jag Pro. Based on my talk above, unless there's something I don't know, it'd be wiser to keep one of the 2 and sell the other right away as a singleton on Ebay.

     

    I am part collector, part player, part ebayer. probably about equal parts of each. I Iike having games, I like playing games, and like making money on the used game market. I will get what I need to get a good game going. I picked up so many Saturn Controllers for cheap that I can have a complete set of controllers for NHL Hockey, the only 12 player game I know of. (Of course we don't play that, but occassionally, I'm asked to bring Saturn Bomberman for a party.) But sometimes you have to pick and choose the right parts of the collection to keep.

     

    For exmaple at one time I had 4 DK Bongos. Then I realized the only 4 player portion of Bongo games was just a free-jam session. There was no actual game-part in Donkey Konga 1 and 2 4 players. It was kind of a waste to have 4 bongos, so I sold my "extra bongos only with box" on ebay. Then a friend had a wedding. So I made a statement.

     

    I had loose bongos, so I bought DK Jungle Beat in the big box but with no Bongos, for cheap, I separated the Bongo and the rest, and had this card. "One of you is loose bongos, the other is a bongo box with DK Jungle Beat, Individually you only had certain value, but put the 2 of you together, and you are more complete, useful, and valuable than the 2 of you separately combined individually. The whole is greater than the sum of its parts. Happy Wedding Day." A game collector and ebay hustler would understand the reference.

     

    I'm collecting because I know if I need emergency money, i can buy low at thrift stores and sell high at ebay. If I tried the game but didn't like and/or understand it, like Bust a Groove PS1 I tried it, couldn't get into it, so a game I bought for $1, I sold for $50. I tried it, and didn't like it.

     

    It also helps me stay social with my friends. If I find a valuable game that I don't like but someone else might like, i sell it to them for enough money to make it worth my while, but considerably less than the current going ebay rate. One friend was collecting Saturn RPGs without owning a Saturn, and I didn't know that. I assumed he wasn't interested, so I sold Dragon Force, (not much of an RPG/Strategy fan) which I found for $1 and sold for $150 on Ebay. Then he heard about it and caught me before I sold the other 2, so that's when I first made that deal, and I make similar deals with my other friends, hoping they reciprocate. Since I bought them for a dollar a piece, I sold them to him or $20 a piece. As for the then going ebay price on both, one was $50 the other was $80.

     

    Now I know to bring up my valuable thrift store/media store finds with my friends before selling them on ebay.

     

    And once I get enough bandwidth to do a twitch show, I'l give away some thrift store finds on the Twitch stream. The games I don't want or have doubles of I have posted on gametz.com user name "tripletopper" if you want to get with these before I start my twitch stream. (which may be a while based on my geography.)

     

    P..S. when you're a shut in and have no social life, you tend to blab on posts. I understand most people have jobs and families and friends they can frequently see. But I don't I do most of my socializing via web. I've just got way too much time on my hands. Outside of basic everyday conversations, I have no organic reason to talk to someone that would be innocent.


  2. Toopic moved to http://atariage.com/forums/topic/282719-store-brand-vs-name-brand-game-and-movie-media/ with appropriate poll. And mods, please merge the 2 similar sounding ptopics. My main quesiton is did more people avoid a non-Sears 2600 games because they had a Telegames, or did more people avoid Sears Telegames media because they had a non-Sears 2600?

     

    That's why Sears later got into the general credit card business by being the main investor in Discover Card, because store cards were starting to become passe.


  3. The interesting trend in the 70s was store-branded video games. There were store branded everything in the 70s.

     

    I posed this question asking about "linear media" on lddb.com, a laser disc website, and I knew about the Sears Beta, and later found out about the JCPenney VHS, and was wondering if there was a store brand Laser Disc or Selectavision (a format often confused with Laser Disc, but different). I used video game store brands like Sears Telegames, Sears Super Telegames, Tandy Vision, and Montgomery Ward Game System, which were respectively, Atari 2600, Intellivision, Intellivision, and Bally as examples.

     

    I don't know the logic behind it. I assume it was to keep store brand loyalty. But I assume it can backfire.

     

    If Sears was talking about the Telegames and Super Telegames, and didn't have an Atari 260 and Intellivision section, if you were from Mars, you'd say the were promoting their own brand. Kind of like what Aldi does with most of their food products.

     

    Was their marketing not to mention the brand name, and use only the store name? I understand they wanted store loyalty, but did they keep more sales they'd lose to other stores with store brands, or did they lose more sales from brand name people by browsing and seeing only store brand stuff?

     

    I'm trying to figure out whether it was a net positive to have store branding or a net negative. If you've owned any of these system during their prime, whether you were a kid, a parent, or a childless grownup at the time: Atari 2600, Intellivision, Bally Astrocade, Sears Telegames, Sears Super Telegames, Tandyvision, Montgomery Ward Game System, the question is "Have you dabbled or stayed loyal, ether out of ignorance of their intercompatibility or out of pride?"

     

    By the way, I voted no interactive media, since my first was a Colecovision, which had no store brand problems, and a Sanyo BetaCord (a name brand), and dad didn't avoid Sears for Beta tapes. I think they were branded as Sears Beta brand tapes, which he has bought before. I see them downstairs, so No for avoiding Sears Brand Beta tapes.


  4. I'll tell you what, so you don't have to buy 2 of them and be stuck with 3 Pro Controllers, I'll buy the 2 repro set and then trade you one of them for that US Jack Bros. How about that. Problem solved!

     

    I know a lowball trader against me when I hear one. Tell you what, I'll do one of 2 things. I'll either A) buy the 2 JagPros, sell one, hope the price on ebay is more than half the cost of 2, and make a little profit and I keep US jack Bros, or B) wait a few months and hope the repros are cheaper per joystick than a genuine Atari one, and pay less than $60 for a re-pro Jap Pro. But if you buy right away, right away is the time to sell, if you're early enough. Then wait until the Re-Pros are done, then sell again when the Re-Pros are no longer offered, unless the Re-pro maker has enough in stock when the molds are alrready made where the molds aren't destryoed and can just call up a few hundred Jag Pros and have stock and still make a profit.

     

    and I KNOW that the US version of Jack Bros is the Holy Grail of Virtual Boy. I found it at a Village Discount Outlet in the 90s, a local version of Goodwill in Akron. The Virtual Boy itself was $5, so I bought it, then opened up the tape and saw Jack Bros and a few other games and thought :$

    Researching the last 30 days on Ebay, Jack Bros US Version loose sold anywhere from $100 complete (a lowbal buy it now. If you had a spare $100 that would have been a good pickup) and typical loose values of $350-450, complete at $600, and factory sealed at over $1000. Unless you're willing to offer more than one Re-PRo Jag Pro, I'd say, find some other sucker. I may be born on a Thursday , but it wasn't LAST Thursday.

     

    That's when you can find finds-and-a-half at thrift stores. Now most of what I see is PS2 sports games. Thank you Macklemore for popularizing goodwill enough where even more people know about the game deals at Goodwill. After I head that song, good game deals at Goodwill are harder and harder to find. I hope enough johnny come latelys give up on thrift stores once Macklemore becomes out of vogue. Thankfully he was mainly singing about deals on clothing, and not a word about vintage video games. ;)


  5. I already have one Atari Brnad Jag pro I picked up for $40 before the price explosion on ebay. The minimum I can buy in this offer is 2. If I take advantage of it, I'll have 3 controllers.

     

    I just want to check my facts on this. Is having a third Jaguar Pro controller kind of like being Blinky the Fish with HIS third eye, or Matt Sydel with HIS third eye? In other words, is there any practical use for a 3rd Jag-Pro controller?

     

    Should I assume there are 3+ player games that use the Team Tap? If I remember right, there are 2 games that use it, White Men Can't Jump and NBA Jam. Is that correct?

     

    Next question, do ANY of those games have any benefits with the Jag-Pro when playing 3+ players?

     

    If NBA Jam is anything like the arcade, then it only uses 3 buttons. I could see an argument for having Turbo on either L or R. But will the options let you do that?

     

    As for white men Can't Jump, does it a) use more than 3 buttons, and b) have an argument for putting one of the buttons on the shoulder?

     

    If the answer to all of these is No, then it makes sense the sell one of my 2 Re-Pro Jag-Pros as a single on ebay.

     

    But if any answer is yes, then more questions pop up like, like "is the Jaguar version of NBA Jam significantly better than the Genesis, SNES, Sega CD, 32X, Saturn, Playstation 1 versions of the similar game?", and " If I find White Men Can't Jump at a Goodwill is both a good enough game and Jag-Pro essential enough, where I need 4 Jag Pro pads, or would 2 standard Jag controllers do for players 3 and 4, and would be worth inviting 2-3 guests to play?"

     

    The only reason I'm remotely curious about Jag-Pro Pads is because I found a copy of Atari Karts for a dollar at a non-charity used media store, who unfortunately went out of business when I first got my 360. Considering my only other game is the pack-in game (I believe it was Cybermorph) I have paltry collection of 2 Jaguar Games. I own more for the Virtual Boy including a US copy of Jack Bros. And the Virtual boy was a thrift store find.

     

    I know Tempest 2000 is the number one exclusive on the Jaguar, and a good enough reason to invest in 1 (or is there a 2 player mode) rotary controllers.

     

    But is Atari Karts alone a good enough reason to buy a second Jag-Pro controller for 2 player games, and if not are there other reasons to own 2 Jag Pro controllers I can look forward to in the future, if I'm lucky to find one at a thrift store or cheap on ebay?


  6. Well the internet thing I was going to buy turned out to be a rip-off. Limited high-speed data and automatic drop-down to 3x dial-up speed is not good. Also a second thing I was buying is currently a "not yet" status, so if the Jag-Pro Re-Pro controllers came out in September, I can afford to buy a pair. I'm already on the reserve list.


  7. Planning on getting a pair of Jaguar Re-produciton Pro Controllers. Already got one genuine one. It looks like the extra buttons come in handy for more games than advertised.

     

    The problem is I will have 3 Pro controllers. If I'm right, the only 2 games that are more than 2 players are NBA Jam and White Men Can't Jump. Do either of THOSE games use a Jag Pro Pad, (Including any of the keypad buttons that might be mapped to the L,R,X,Y. and Z). If it's similar to the arcade, I know NBA Jam is a 3-button game, Jump/Block/Shoot, Pass/Steal, and Turbo. Does WMCJ use any of the extra buttons? If No, then I'm selling one re-pro Jag Pro controller because I must buy 2 in one pack.


  8. I've got a limited budget. I'm on Social Security Disability, so a $70 cellular internet device and a $60 cell phone ties up my money until October 1st. I just hope they don't sell out by then. If I had a job, then I'd have $125 reserved for it. But My internet speed is 1.5 Mb/s in 400 kb/s out, an inexcusable amount of speed these days. I need an upgrade.


  9. I remember this game was originally called" Out of This World." I guess they had to change the name to "Another World" because there was a Magnavox Odyssey 2 game called "Out of This World".

     

    But it's strange because it was called "Out of This World" in the US because "Another World" was taken by a soap opera in the US.

     

    You can't call it "Another World" because of the Soap Opera. You can't call it "Out of This World" because of the Odyssey 2 game. What do you call it?

    • Like 1

  10. I'd like to buy one, depending on what the answers to my questions are. The big one is "Will it work with a Flashback-modded INTV 1?"

     

    The middle 3 questions were answered by re-reading the initial post. Yes you can use a INTV controller for Keypad and the Genesis Josytick independently, Yes you can keep it attached and just use an INTV controller for 16 way games, and most likely yes for my PS2-> Genesis fight stick adapter.

     

    And finally, "For power, can a USB plug work, and then from there, a USB -> AC adapter and/or a USB-> 3 AAA/3AA NiMH battery pack?"

     

    If all the answers are in my favor, I might want a second one for other opponents playing against me who want one who have similar complaints, depending on the price and amount of user-friendliness involved. Which I heard was $20 each for a user friendly version or $10 for a solder monkey's version.

     

    PS. Thought of new questions. To save on power outlets (don't want to run into a Sega Genesis/CD/32X problem) , would it work with a M/F Power Cord Extension cable with 2 USB adapters on the side for the 2 adapters, kind of like a power splitter?

    Finally will it be obvious which one of the INTV joystick cords is for the INTV 2 controller, which plugs into the INTV 2 console, and which is for the Genesis?

     

    My biggest question is with Flashback modded INTV 1's. Haven't gotten an answer within a month. And no new news since last post, just the announcement and a couple of "I want one"s. Update and answers please?


  11. I have a "Mostly Working" coloecvision. If you supply power to it, it turns on. If you put in a cartridge, it reads it. The only problem is due to bad instruciotns from Adam's House, I permenantly ruined my Joyport 1 on the Colecovision, so I can't plug in any joystick. they told me to pull the port, so I pulled it apart, and it got ruined.

     

    I'm not getting much help from the repair shop, who told me to to find a non-working colecovision, and transplant the joyport. he says he can solder it for $25 -the $10 analysis fee.

     

    I asked if there is a generic equivalent part for the right angle Colecovision DB9 port? The repairman said there was none. I asked A couple companies whihc may have the piece, and they said they didn't know enough about the particular repair or the Colecoviison itself to answer the question.

     

    I'm trying to get the repairman on board. All he has to do is solder on a new 9-pin connector. But he insists on a genuine CV connector, becuase there is no part number on it, so he can't look up equivalents.

     

    I found this searching for a solder-on DB9 right angle connector: https://www.cablewholesale.com/specs/3530-14009.php?utm_source=GoogleShopping&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=3530-14009&utm_campaign=DB9%20Right%20Angle%20Female%20Connector%2C%20Solder%20Type&gclid=CjwKCAjw5ZPcBRBkEiwA-avvk6cT-8xUjIPMCP6SxL0hcXOUZuYkZJAbaXnnP17vGGB21YoWSrEwsRoCx1kQAvD_BwE

     

    $4 shipping plus <$1 for the cost of 1, plus I know it's not ruined. A lot less in cost and a lot more sure to work than a stereotypical non-working Colecovision. The only thing I don't know is whether it's compatible with a Colecovision.


  12. I would love to purchase one already assembled to go in a FlashBack modded INTV. I'd rather have Genesis-> INTV. Genesis doesn't require a desoldered controller for an INTV fight stick, as I can use a Tototek PS2-> Genesis adapter and from there go to INTV. That is assuming I can access the keypad with a Flashback INTV controller.

     

    You should add a "standard/Flashback" toggle on both the INTV end for the keypad on the native INTV controller, and on the plug into the INTV FB->1. I would prefer you incorporate a Flashback/standard modding for a Flashback INTV controller on a FB modded standard INTV 1.

     

    Also what about the idea of using USB and a USB-> AC or USB->AA/AAA?

     

    Never got answers from 20 some days ago:

     

    3 questions.

     

    1) will it work with a Flashback modded INTV1? Yes? No? Only if I buy a physical pin swapper?

     

    2) Is the other 9 pin for the Intellivision original controller so you can access the original keypad with the second Y-ed controller? If so, would THAT need a physical pin adapter to work with a Flashback controller on my Flashback modded INTV1?

     

    3) Would it work without a genesis controller plugged in, and just use the INVTV controller straight, so I don't have to unplug it every time I want a 16-way game?

     

    4) Will it work with a Tototek PS2 controller-> Genesis machine adapter?

     

    5) Isn't USB a 5V circuit? If so could it be powered by USB cord (with an optional a USB-> AC adapter or USB to AA/AAA battery pack) ? Or could it be powered by AA/AAA NiMH batteries?

     

    I'm barely no longer a noob becuase I have successfully cleaned out potentiometers for an Atari 2600 and Bally Astrocade paddle, and have cleaned contacts on a Colecovision Super Aciton Controllers, and installed an INTV 1 Flashback mod, but otherwise, have very little "under the hood" experience, especially where soldering is concerned. How easy is it to install?


  13. I found a 5200 4-port system with no switchbox, a Competition Pro, and a few games for $15 in 1997 at a thrift store. I bought it, knowing the reputation of 5200 controllers. I had a 5200 4 port, so I tested the main console sold it, and made a little money and got the rest for free.

     

    4 notes about it:

     

    1 It's dsigned to be right handed with the "main button" on the left and the "Aux button" on the right. I have some left handed friends who mightbe interested ina "button swapper" 5200 adapter, assuming it's as simple as wiring pins to pins.

     

    2) It's an all or nothing joystick. You're either centered or at one of 4 cadrdinal extremes or one of 8 diagonal extremes.

     

    3) There are a couple digital games which take advantage of the circular restrictor of the CX-52 to assume if it's 80% or more in one cardinal direction, it cannot be considered more than 60% actuated in a perpendicular direction, hence a peripheral enforced 4-way stick. Some coders to advantage of that because it's easier to say ( I know this isn't proper 5200 code. I'm talking to humans here, not 5200 coding machines. So don't make me go all all Captcha on you bots :P) "If x>+80%"... than it is to say "If X>+80% and ABS(Y)<60%" (but also takes less bits, and when you're given only 32 KB, every bit counts.) so why waste bits on a redundant line. The problems come when a diagonal is actuated becuase it's X= +/- 100 AND Y= +/- 100% simultaneously. LLine pairs which should be mutually excvlusive are no longer mutually exclusive, so there would be some funny run-time errors. I never tried it. I heard Popeye is one of those 4 way games. When I get the 5200 Sticks fixed, maybe I'll try it.

     

    4) Also games with analog speed like Dreadnaught factor can make you faster when dodging diagonally at 141% of the cardinal speed, so it might have to be a separate category for Twin Galaxies World Records (analog control vs digital control record).

     

    One final thing about the centering. The lack of centering force makes games like Super Breakout, Kaboom, and Star Wars with their absolute position instead of relative direction work buttery smooth without the self centering.

     

    Also if someone thinks auto-centering is such a good idea that is should be automatic, and it's dumb to have a stay-put joystick, they should try Warlords for the Xbox One in Absolute mode. Even if you hav a 1 ms ping monitor, you'll be fighting centering resistance trying to dial a posiiton exactly, sometimes working with the resitance, sometimes against, and painful to keep still and painful to dial an exact position other than maximum in as little as a tenth of a second.

     

    Real 2600 paddles should be an option on Atari Flashback for PS4 and Xbox One. Otherwise their only worth is online games.


  14. There';s another site where I got the Atari/Bally switch: http://www.glankonian.com/~lance/Hack.html

     

    Also wondering if a) anyone can build a 9 Pin to 9 PIn adapter for Atari Joyhstics working on Astrocaede controllers? There's an Intelliviosn 9-pin-to-9pin adapter maker for Intellivision and he says he'll only do it for the few things he knows how to wire quickly. Can someone be hired for an Atari->Bally converter. I want to use My Playstaiton 2 Right Handed Fight Stick attached to a Tototek PS2-> Genesis adapter.

     

    Should the Genesis controllers act like a 1-button Atari controller when not plugged in Genesis? Same with 7800 and Colecovision controllers? And if that's true, will they work in an Astrocade with the proper adapter?

     

    I'd like to hire someone to make a 9-Pin Atari-> 9 Pin Bally controller adapter.


  15. 3 questions.

     

    1) will it work with a Flashback modded INTV1? Yes? No? Only if I buy a physical pin swapper?

     

    2) Is the other 9 pin for the Intellivision original controller so you can access the original keypad with the second Y-ed controller? If so, would THAT need a physical pin adapter to work with a Flashback controller on my Flashback modded INTV1?

     

    3) Would it work without a genesis controller plugged in, and just use the INVTV controller straight, so I don't have to unplug it every time I want a 16-way game?

     

    4) Will it work with a Tototek PS2 controller-> Genesis machine adapter?

     

    5) Isn't USB a 5V circuit? If so could it be powered by USB cord (with an optional a USB-> AC adapter or USB to AA/AAA battery pack) ? Or could it be powered by AA/AAA NiMH batteries?

     

    I'm barely no longer a noob becuase I have successfully cleaned out potentiometers for an Atari 2600 and Bally Astrocade paddle, and have cleaned contacts on a Colecovision Super Aciton Controllers, and installed an INTV 1 Flashback mod, but otherwise, have very little "under the hood" experience, especially where soldering is concerned. How easy is it to install?


  16. I've got 13 Saturn controllers. The most anyone needs is 12 for NHL

     

    One of those controllers is a third 3D Controller. Does any game require both a 3D controller, and a 6-Player Adapter? (and not hard require, but improve the game in circle pad and/or analog trigger mode.) What is the largest number of 3D controllers I need to operate all Saturn games?

     

    I do have an Action Replay, so I can play games in any region, so include any game from any region. But try to find games that are not language dependent if there's no English option. A quiz game is highly language dependent, so don't include that.

     

    A grey area would be Chu Chu Rocket in a different language, where the question mark mouse would bring up a mode that displays a speech and text of the mode, and the first few play through you would have no idea what is going on, but as you get used to it, you can tell by the music and sound effects what mode you're in, but you'll be a couple seconds behind the computer in comprehending it.

     

    Finally, I know Golden Axe the Duel requires the standard controllers, because the analog triggers don't play nice, even in + mode. But most games work with a 3D pad as a standard controller in + mode. Are there any other Saturn games anywhere in the world that requires the standard controllers and doesn't work with the 3D Pad, even in + mode? Golden Axe is at most 2 players. Are any of them more than 2 players?


  17. So your saying the only game worth getting that has 5+ players and all using 6-button controllers is International Superstar Soccer Deluxe, and that's a European and Brazilian release only. And Wheel of Fortune Sega CD is the other extreme requiring 3 3-button controllers to play right without errors. Every other "3-button required" game is 2 players or less.

     

    Well I got 6 6-button controllers, one Ascii 6-Button Fight Stick, and am planning to get a PS2-> Genesis 6-button adapter for my dream fight stick, so that's all the 8 players I need for that. The fourth 3-Button controller I have can be a sacrificial PCB for my fight stick for those few games that require a 3-button controller, like Ms. Pac-Man, which really requires a joystick to play right. All right, I'm not selling a thing.

     

    Speaking of international game, would a US Genesis Game Genie be able to pay European and/or Brazilian ( and other regions of) Mega Drive cartridges? I know it plays Japanese MD. And would a US Game Genie unlock foreign Sega CD/Mega CD and 32XCD games? (the 32X cartridges may be a different issue because the cartridge is designed to not fit in a 16 bit machine cartridge slot). And would the US Game Genie allow CD cheating?


  18. I am not making any of the adapters. I just posted them in the listing for those that are interested in them.

     

    Now I see the links. Thanks. And thanks for putting me on the list of Jag-Pro Re-Pros. I wouldn't buy the Jaguar to 7800 adapter, becuase it doesn't work in 2 button mode. Instead I'd get the Genesis to 7800 adapter and the Colecovision board from Edladdin.


  19. I just read through the guide for the undamned. This is for a Neo-Geo type 15-pin (digital, has a pin for each of 4 directions). You cannot use this on the 5200 unless you get a DB15 analog-to-DB15 digital adapter, since the bohoki adapter and 5200 controller have a single x-axis pin and a single y-axis pin.

     

    I wasn't suggesting a Neo Geo DB15 style, I was suggesting wiring it to one wire=one control can be wired into the actuators of a dismantled controller. I'm not planning to plug it into the 5200 directly. The purpose of it was to turn my PS2-style fight stick into a one wire=one function mode, which I can use a telephone operator style adapter which can change the button and joystick functions. Also I'm using the terminal block style where each wire can be hooked up to a DB 25 and adjusted individually.


  20. There's one other issue. (By the way, came on here by clicking link from the Jaguar Re-pro Jag Pro controllers.) I'll repost relevant question in this forum:

     

    a) Will they universally work with every Jaguar controller, so I can hook it up to a naked original PCB for a fight stick as well as a Jag Pad and Jag Pro Pad.

    b)I assume it will work in a digital manner actuating 100% cardinal, 100% X + 100% Y diagonal, or neutral, so it would be good for fight sticks.
    c) If that’s the case, then a few seemingly digital games will have problems when using diagonals. So using a technology used in hitboxes, maybe there should be an optional external Simultaneous Any Cardinal Direction Scrubber, so that if a game gives errors when you press a diagonal, just plug this in and it will only lock in a perpendicular cardinal when the original cardinal is released. So this locks out everything except Neutral and one cardinal at a time. This device can be independent and have a 5200-> 5200 adapter, so it can be used with Competition Pro Joysticks too which suffer from this problem in like 4 games or less, Popeye, Mountain King, Bounty Bob Strikes Back, and maybe one other game. This technology was originally used to lock out W+E and N+S combinations, whihc was required for hitboxes to be legal, otherwise, dual blocking gave hitboxes an advantage. Test your Jaguar-> 5200 adapter on Popeye and see if pressing diagonal gives you any trouble.
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