tripletopper

October 23, 2018

It looks like, unless someone can make a strong defense of the Jaguar version of NBA Jam over SNES, Saturn, or PS1 versions, there are no UNIQUELY Jaguar games that need more than 2 Pro Pads that run on one console and one TV. And unless there is a Jag Link game that hooks up more than 2 people, there are no UNIQUELY Jaguar games that require more than 2 Pro Pads period

Is literally the only 3+ player game where the Pro Pad comes in handy NBA Jam, a game that's shared by many consoles? If you're a die-hard completist Jag fan with 3 frequent friends and no other systems from that era, then it's smart to get 4 Pro Pads. Otherwise assuming you take care of your pads, most people will only need 2 at most.

Remember: this is coming from a Johnny-come-lately toe-dipper, not a true back-in-the-day, pedal-to-the-metal Jag fan.

Can someone who bleeds Luma, Red, and Chroma minus Red give a reason why YOU would want more than 2 Jag Pro pads, other than wear and tear?

October 22, 2018

As for the INTV FB<-> INTV 2 converters, if you don't want to add that functionality, may I refer you to intelliviisonaries.com the INTV podcast, and Nurmix uses it as a store for his INTV FB-> INTV 1 and INTV FB-> INTV 2 passive controller adapters. I own a pair of INTV FB-> INTV 1 adapters, even installed them myself, and bought 3 Flashback pads, 2 for the new console, and one to pad hack or a fight stick. If you don't want to add the feature, consider it taken care of.

Unfortunately, I understand pad hacking enough to know in most consoles (North=1 AND East = 1) electronically equals NE. The 2 toughest system to deal with that problem are the 5200 and Intelllivision. With the 5200, 100% N + 100 % E = 141% NE. Only a couple games go into error when that happens, and that can be prevented with a mechanical 4/8-way switchable gate which prevents diagonals.

Intellivision requires actual processing brains because one pin does not equal one direction. Northeast is a separate actuator and not just the electronic sum of the North plus East. It would require some sort of circuit somewhere which either on the joystick, actuate another switch when the 2 cardinals are combined, or what you're doing on the Inteliivision. Since it's stupid to re-invent the wheel, I'll wait until this comes out. I may get either one Genesis and One Jaguar or 2 Genesis ones, depending on how "keypad heavy" certain Intelliivison games are. I guess it depends on what my main 2up, either my firends or my brother, want for intellivision, either a Genesis or a Jaguar.

October 22, 2018

I'm mainly going to do it on November the third becuase of "my word is my bond" thing i TRY to live up to if I can. I don't know whether to root for a sellout before November 3rd or not, both for my sake and for Starwinder's. I hope he sells out soon after.

Did Starwinder make his minimum to break even yet?

If November 3rd comes and there's a pair, I'll pick a pair up. If not, congratulations Starwinder.

And Starwinder, I'm trying to keep in the spirit of this by keeping one of the 2 controllers, because except for NBA Jam, (and even that I can use a fight stick, or 2-finger the action buttons,) you don't need 3 or more Pro controllers, assuming you take good care of them.

A lot of people believe the spirit of the extra supply is to get GAME PLAYERS a chance to play games with the Jag Pro. Since I already have one, and you must get 2 to buy, so it is in the spirit of the order to buy 2 and sell one on ebay. That's also why I'm waiting for November 3rd: the Jaguar doesn't mean enough to my younger life to be in love with it. I was more of a Saturn guy. If it's there I'l get a pair, if not, hopefully bigger fans than I and not speculators bought most these.

That's why I'm also keeping one. Since i already have one, I asked Starwinder if keeping one and ebaying the other is in the spirit of the production. According to what he emailed me, Starwinder cares less about what happens to them than some posters at Atari Age do. I was honest with Starwinder, told him my intentions, and he said go ahead: Wait until November 3rd, and if there are none on ebay at that time, then buy a pair and ebay one of them.

I don't know whether to root for the sellout before November 3rd or against.

October 22, 2018

What is special about November 3rd? Just order them now, otherwise they might sell out and then you will be SOL. Put them on your credit card if you're waiting a couple weeks for payday at your job or something.

You should double check with SW and make sure selling them on ebay is okay. To break even you will need to sell them at a higher price point then you paid for them due to ebay and paypal fees. This might look like you're attempting to flip them at first glance.

Also, why don't you want 3 or 4 total controllers to take advantage of the multiplayer games for the jaguar. Don't forget about the multitap adaptor, which allows for some 4P worms action each player with their own controller. Why limit yourself to only two controllers.

1) That's when I get paid. I'm on Social Security disability, and have to wait until the 3rd of the month.

2) I don't have credit cards, only debit cards. I usually don't borrow.

3) I got to sell my extra Colecoviiosn once I get it repaired by Thursday. When that's done. I'll get it.

4) It's not THAT important to me where I HAVE to have one at all costs. If it happens to be there when I get enough money, fine, I'll get one. Otherwise I'll just have to live with just ONE genuine Pro Pad and no repro.

I'm mainly doing it because I was on the preorder list. It it sells out before I buy, then Starwinder doesn't need my purchase. If it's there, I'll take advantage of it. By the way, Starwinder gave me implied permission to sell both, but I respect both the Jaguar community and the properties of the Jag Pro controller where if get one pair, I'll keep one and sell the other on ebay, and be honest about it being a repro on ebay.

October 21, 2018

Well I didn't know how ketypad heavy the AVP game would be.

Probably the most "keypad heavy" concept I can think of is my idea for "Dancing fingers bomb", if it were actually made. A game I thought would make an interesting "Go to the Party Jag" party mini-game. Not good enough to be it's own cartridge, but could be part of a fun mini-game package.

By the way "Dancing Fingers Bomb" is kind of like a keypad finger Twister. You have to press 6 buttons at a time, then release one button and press a different button, while keeping the other 5 held. Let your finger off the wrong button or touch a wrong button. and BOOM.

As for keypad heaviness for existing games, the only keys in heavy use are 46789, hence why the Pro pad was made. Wouldn't that make it MORE vital to have quick access to 46789, as opposed to taking one out and putting in a shift button. If none of the other keys need quick and heavy access, then plugging in a Jag pad fore the keypad would be cool. I guess there are n ture 8 button games, except the full-keypad games. Most either use 46 or 789, usually not both, but both ARE there for the options..

October 21, 2018

Just looking for some thrift store finds. I mainly bought it as a "just in case" purchase. Luckily I found Atari Karts for $1, and a genuine Pro Pad for $20 afterwords.

October 21, 2018

Correct.

The fightstick layouts are almost exclusively for Primal Rage and Double Dragon V, neither of which need access to 4 or 6; 789CBA takes care of those games. But I still include 4/6 on the layout because I figure it's more valuable (and future-proof) to have access to every button just in case, and relying on an external keypad introduces more complexity and cost. If you want immediate access to 4/6 on a fightstick, and you're NOT playing PR/DDV, just use the default layout instead of the fightstick alternate. You will have immediate access to all 8 ProController face & shoulder buttons, and (because you're not playing a 6-button fighting game) the layout isn't as critical.

While a physical switch would probably work just fine, I prefer a solid-state design where possible. The way I have designed this would be pretty easy to remember - simply hold the "light punch" button when you plug in the controller - but ultimately, I'd rather place my confidence in documentation being available somewhere on the internet than trying to fix a broken switch.

I'd probably use my fight stick for any game where the concept of a left and right shoulder button doesn't have to specifically be a shoulder button. (Atari Karts is the biggest example of a specific shoulder button requirement that would be awkward with a fight stick.) I'd use the fight stick for any 3 button game that doesmn't use heavy keypad.

I' was considering hooking up an external keypad to my joystick, which would be outside the buttons. for other consoles like the 5200, Colecovision and Intellivision. I guess 4 would be the "consumable klck" (3K) button and the 6 would be the "consumable punch" or 3P buttton, if we were using the saturn Street Fighter standard.

I guess depending on the price vs versatility of a Jag Pad padhack vs a PS1 adapter I'll get either one . A pad hack would be more versatile, and less confusing for keypad heavy games, abnd it would aklso let me "pick my other 5 main buttons if I don't like the Jag Pro default, but a PS2-> Jag adpater would be better if it were significantly cheaper than having someone mannually padhack a Jag 3 button.. About what percentage of jaguar games are considered "pad heavy" which you must quickly use more than just 46789? I think AVP would be considered a VERY Pad heavy game. All the keys look occupied. Any others?

So Do I hold the 'light punch" button when I power on the Jaguar with the stick already plugged in, or when I plug it in after I turn on the jag? I assume holding while resetting wouldn't work becuase it doesn't choke of power to the PS1-> Jaguar adapter.

Also, if you can get these semi-mass produced, ToTotek might be interested in selling your PS1-> Jaguar adapter. Also, you don't have to use an external extra keyboard, Just use a second Joystick in plug and let it be a passthrough, so you can activate the keypad ona real jag Pad mounted next to the fight stick. Maybe use the "Heavy Punch" button as the alpha and beta as the no-shift external Jag keypad mode.

October 21, 2018

Well, if they're still available by Novedmber 3rd, then I'll sell my extra Colecoviiosn console only, (no power or joysticks) and see if I can get a decent bit for it. If that happens to add up to a decent bit, then I'l buy 2 Atari Jag Pro Re Pros.

I got a message from Starwinder saying "If I decide to order them, whatever I do with them is my business." So If I order them, I'll see if I can get $60+ for one. If I do, hurray for me! If I don't, I've got a friend who owns a Jaguar who might want a little Christmas gift, who, as far as I know, owns Zero Jag Pros, Atari Brand or otherwise.

I promise I will clearly state that this is a retro enthusiast's small run mass produced reproduction who made an agreement with Atari to continue supplying the retro market. I'll tell them if you search hard enough, you can find them elsewhere. One of the terms of the agreement was that everything is genuinely accurate according to the patent (which is expired, hence legal) except for one small indicator, a lack of an engraved Atari Logo on the controller. (which is still under renewed copyright protection, hence, why it's not there.) I'll mention I'm not trying to pass off a reproduction as a genuine, and is mainly for game players who don't want to keep pressing keypad buttons when 4, 6, 7, 8, and 9 are more easily reachable as L, R, Z, Y, and X. Those looking for genuine Atari units should go elsewhere.

And I'll tell ebay buyers that this is a singleton from the original producer who only sells them in pairs. I already have one Pro Controller, and for all games, the most you really need is 2 controllers ,except for one game, NBA Jam TE, which a) is not a strict requirement for the operation of the game, but could be comfortable if not two-fingering it, and b) is available for other systems including SNES, Genesis, Playstation 1, and Saturn. Soi if you already own one, and don't need to buy 2, tis might be your auction.

I'll put a minimum to make it worth it, but no maximum, but would be worth it relative to a genuine one.

October 18, 2018

Some of the information in this thread is inaccurate: ZYX on the Pro Controller map to 789, not 123.

I have previously thought about trying to make an adapter to convert a PlayStation Dual Shock (or DS2) controller for use with a Jaguar. With a modifier button, all the keypad buttons would be available.

Here is the configuration I envisioned:
L2(4) Select(Option) R2(6)
L1(7) Start(Pause)   R1(9)
     ∆(
[](C)    O(A)
     X(B)

L3(~) R3(0)

while holding L3(~):
L2(*) Select(0) R2(#)
     ∆(2)
[](1)    O(3)
     X(5)
I also thought about two alternate layouts for use with PS-compatible fightsticks, so the buttons map properly for a 6-button fighting game like Primal Rage or Double Dragon V. These would be accessed by holding [] or L1 as you plug the adapter in:
Fightstick layout α (hold [] when plugging in):
Select(Option) Start(Pause)
[](7)  ∆( R1(9) L1(4)
 X(C)  O(B) R2(A) L2(~)

While holding L2(~):
Select(0)
[](1)  ∆(2) R1(3) L1(6)
 X(*)  O(5) R2(#)

Fightstick layout β (hold L1 when plugging in):
Select(Option) Start(Pause)
L1(7) [](  ∆(9) R1(4)
L2(C)  X(B)  O(A) R2(~)

While holding R2(~):
Select(0)
L1(1) [](2)  ∆(3) R1(6)
L2(*)  X(5)  O(#)
Stone, if you have some schematics for a Saturn-to-Jag adapter, I'd love to see them. I'm hoping to find someone interested in making this adapter.

Should I Assume Alpha arrangements are for Street fighter anniversary sticks and similarly mapped PS fight sticks, and the Beta arrangements are for ones are for Ascii fight sticks, and similarly mapped PS Fight Sticks? Should I also assume the (-) button should be labeled a "shift key" that holding the - key plus another key simultaneously gets?

I'm not familiar enough with Jaguar Games to know what games would requires that many buttons. And what games require quick access to any button other than the 4, 6, 7, 8, and 9? if my theory is correct, then the 4 and 6 are more important to have quick access to BOTH vs having ONE of them PLUS a shift key for 7 other keys. Unless there is something in some game with I would rather have a separate external keypad for those keypad buttons because you need A, B, C, X, Y, Z, L, and R with quick access, and the other buttons are not as necessary to access lightning quick.

But I do like the PS Dual Shock/Street Fighter 15/AsciiWare switch, even though if you use the fight stick a lot, I'd probably rather have a physical A-B-C slider switch than hold a hot key at plug in. I may forget and lose the instructions and complain, and not remember what button to activate for the Street Fighter 15.

I would prefer Playstation + 12 button external keypad over Saturn + 12 button keypad + extra auxiliary button, mainly because of the "double translation problem" Going the Playstaiton directly to Jaguar is less likely to cause errors on the Jaguar than PS1-> Saturn -> Jaguar. And also there are way many more Playstation-> X adapters than Saturn -> X adapters. Tototek sells many for systems OLDER than PS1 like SNES, Genesis/Master System, TG16, Neo Geo, Saturn, and 3DO (even though Tototek's lacks a multiplayer daisy chain port), and elsewhere you can find adapters for every NEWER system except the Nintendo Switch. I have ones for Xbox, Game Cube, Dreamcast, 360, PS3, Wii Classic, Wii U Classic, and Xbox One. ( I strangely enough don't have a PS4 for 2 reasons. One is no 4k movies on a PS4 Pros, and the other is all of my offline friends are Xbox since the 360, and only the "Star" of our group, Zophar321, had a PS3 too, and he mainly used it for PS3 exclusives and as his main Blu Ray player, kind of like me.)

Even though the Saturn might be a better form factor for correctly adapting the pro controller to your fingers/thumbs with the 3 columns x 2 rows + 2 shoulders, and may be welcome if you own Saturn pads (which I do and if it's cheaper than the Starwinder Jag Pro Re-Pros, would rather go with this and save the Jag Pro Re Pros for true Jaguar fans instead of dabblers like myself,) but if I'm trying to make my right-handed joystick work of all my systems, PS is better. But I do see the virtue of a Saturn-> Jaguar Pro adapter.

October 16, 2018

It may help you to know that the extra buttons are actually just mapped to the keypad:

X=1

Y=2

Z=3 (Z and X may be the other way around...experiment)

Left shoulder button is 4, and right shoulder button is 6. So you can use a Procontroller with pretty much any game using the keypad. Games I know of which have functions specifically for the procontroller (sidestepping mapped to 4/6, for example, which is a pain to do with a standard controller) are (in no particular order):

AvP (sidestepping)

Worms (grenade settings, some options)

Primal Rage (procontroller setup lets you use all 6 buttons)

Atari Karts (hard turn left and right)

Battlemorph (everything)

Battlesphere (everything)

Ruiner Pinball (fingertip buttons tilt left and right)

Ultra Vortek

Syndicate (everything)

Cybermorph

I think you can change web views with x/y/z in T2K as well.

Hope that helped!

Stone

Do all the Jag Pro pads act as the same keys universally, or are they changeable by the software? (Is Z, Y, X, 4, and 6, ALWAYS 1, 2, 3, 4, and 6, respectively, or can it be changed by the software) If the software can change it, maybe I SHOULD get that second Jag Pro pad for a fight stick. But if they universally map, I'll just use a standard Jag Pad, and augment it with a 3.5 mm system where any button on my joystrick can equal any key.

By the way, in street fighter terms, (just in terms of corresponding button layout, there is no Street Fighter Anything for the Jaguar, but there is for the 3DO, and there is Primal Rage for both with a similar layout.) is L the 3K button and R the 3P punch button in a standard 4 column x 2 row layout, or vice versa? I know C is QK, B is MK, A is HK, Z is QP, Y is Mp, and X is HP. I recognize the 3 column x 2 row layout that made Street Fighter famous.

Also has anyone considered a Saturn controller to Jag console with an add on keypad that can be fit on a Saturn Controller, with the 12 keys and the Option Key separate. Becuase the Saturn has a 3x2 layout and 2 shoulder buttons like the Jaguar Pro, just no keypad and option button.

October 15, 2018

Having the bottom button to the right of top button feels like the right-handed Sega Master System Joystick where on the left-handed pad you can rapid fire the index finger in the 1 button on your index finger, but on right handed mode, button 1 was on the left, which means the rapid fire is on the middle finger, not the index finger. A=Bottom B=Top makes sense on a Sega Genesis controller, but makes no sense to me on Jaguar.

I say C=Bottom, B=Top, A=Pause, Start=Start and Option=Reset

Then again the Y/B formation on an SNES joypad makes no sense to me because you need a double jointed thumb to operate jump and fire on Mega Man X as well as i can a B/A two-finger method, but what do I know?

October 15, 2018

Don't forget to check the D-Pad. That's what I'm mainly interested in.

I guess if you use it with a Dual Shock 1, it starts as a PS1 digital, and pressing Analog Mode makes it analog.

Try it with a dual shock 1. The only thing a Dual Shock 2 adds is pressure-analog buttons and pressure-analog cross pad.

Is the mapping X = bottom button (assuming the bottom is intended to be the main button on the 5200, which I believe is right,) and O=top button? That would be perfect for my fight stick. But it might be awful if you use an actual pad if you do the "one thumb on 2 buttons" thing like on Mega Man X for SNES that I can't do well enough. What would start, pause and reset be? Pause=PS start, Start=PS Select, and reset on an "external button" so you don't accidentally reset? And since some games use keypad presses, how do you deal with the other 6 buttons and the Keypad?

October 15, 2018

.... suggestion ... ignore it anyway.

I believe quite a few on this thread are wishing it OR that either of the 2 preconditions there never happened.

I kind of made a word to Starwindr, so it's up to him to release me. That was before I was double thinking the ebay prices going down. But I got a solutoin. If I can't up sell it, I know a firend who alos has a Jaguar> I could give it to him for Christmas if it doesn't upsell, or I can forget about upselling and give it as a gift to my Jaguar-owning friend. That is if Starwinder wants to hold me to my word and he considers it goash to sell one and make a profit against his intentions. I would keep one of them.

They're like Lays Potato Chips. Betcha can't have just one.

October 15, 2018

You probably really should stop doing that, though.

Starwander, many thanks for doing this! Just ordered two sets!

I'm not INTENTIONALLY sniffing them to get high. I just notice a pain in my nose whenever some vapor comes up my nose. I don't know if that's sell or tactile sensation.

October 14, 2018

Haven't written in 3 weeks, any updates? Are you waiting on the slow boat from China? Are you trying to find a way to power it without running into the Genesis/SegaCD/32X problem? Are you adding Flashback switches on both sides?

Also I've had problems when I "double translated" PS2-> Xbox 360-> Switch, but got much better results going from PS2->GameCube->Switch via Wii U GC Port Adapter.

So even though it MAY work with PS2 fight stick being double translated, there's a good chance it won't.

If it doesn't I assume it would work with a fight stick pad-hack modded Genesis 3-button or Atari Jaguar Standard controller?

Sign me up for one of each: One Genesis, One Jaguar. I'm definitely having modded a Genesis 3 button pad for the few 3-button Genesis games , master System and 7800, and aJag pad too.

October 14, 2018

If you can make it so that EITHER the D-pad OR the the analog stick makes the digital joystick move, I'l sign up for one.

Also, this may be a little nitpciky, but... can it be fixed so that 100% N + 100% E does not equal 141% 45 degrees north or east, which should fix the final problems with the Competition Pro Joystick on those few digital games which crash, like Popeye, because they assume if you're over 80% E, you'll automatically be less than 60% North because 60^2+80^2=100^2, which doesn't hold up in the Competition Pro, becuase it's possible to actuate 100% N and 100% E simultaneously. so a 70.7% actuation of N and E on NE would be perfect, or an artificial limiter of "distance" to the 100% radius.

By the way, I'm mainly looking for a fight stick adapter for the Atari 5200 that works with a Playstation fight stick. So if it reads the D-PAd right, then I'm good. I'll order one.

Also, would there be a way to the keypad buttons you need to ma to additional buttons? Not a big priority, but would be nice.

Finally, I know a a guy who wires fight sticks to analog inputs of pad-hacked Playstation 1 controllers. If you have the knowledge to convert digital joyhstick moves into anlaog directions, please share it with MAtthew Ummo, who said he might be able to do it if he knew more about the 5200 controller. He does this for PS1 all the time. He might be able to do N64. But he doesn't know enough about the 5200.

I'm looking to buy one.

October 14, 2018

I think something needs to be said clearly:

The intended audience for homebrew products (hardware or software) are players, those who will actually use and enjoy the stuff.

Collectors may or may not be a secondary target audience.

But speculators definitely aren't.

From experience, I can tell you that homebrew developers are definitely not sympathetic to people who make profit off reselling their work while providing no useful service.

I'm a reverse speculator. I'm hoping enough speculators come through, enough to clear the inventory, but not enough to deny authentic Atari Jaguar players first, then collectors second, their desired Jag Pros. Then they'll panic and garage sale, and that's when I'll swoop.

Also reverse speculation is a lot cheaper than positive speculation. If I'm wrong, it costs me nothing. If I'm right I'd, buy my second Jag Pro at a way cheaper fire sale price.

And I'm enough of a player to know the "ludo value" of a second Jag Pro. i wouldn't probably be here if I didn't find Atari Karts for $1 loose at Slipped Discs in Brunswick, then did research and found the Pro Controller shoulder button info. If I didn't find Atari Karts for $1, and bought a Jaguar a year before then, I'd probably ignore this.

I just hope the high market prices are driven more by collectors and speculators than players. If players truly desire it, and the market STILL isn't in balance after a supply shot in the arm., it will remain high. If collectors want it for its sheer rarity or speculators buy low sell high, and if they reject the Jag Pros as inauthentic, Starwinder made a small, but acceptable profit catering to true Jag fans, who get equivalent equipment for less, a few people (other than me) in my sitch who just need one will sell one of the 2, and then we'll see if the collectors and speculators truly reject the Re-pros. If they do, then Satrwinder did a good thing by making copies of equal "ludo value" that are more affordable than the "trophy copies".

October 14, 2018

Jesus Christ, man...

You've only got 2 Jag games, which you apparently play rarely.

You can live without 2 player Atari Karts.

Just don't bother.

That's exaclty what I said. I can hope that the re-pros on resale actually go for less than the $60 each fr retail, plus adding to the fact I can buy one. I might partake in one iat quantity one for a less price.

Plus it's even rarer I'll find a 2UP for Atari Karts for more than a 5-minute curiosity.

I agree it's just not worth it for me. And I'd fell bad if i deprive a controller from someone who can use 2. But if iI had either a) more Jaguar games, b) or a second player who wanted to partake in Jaguar Pro conroller games more, I'd pick one up. Most of the fans who write here, they "go to the party Jag" more often than I do. Knowing how what goes around comes around, I would feel like a wasteful hoarder by buying 2 and selling one, just to have one which goes against the spirit of the reproduction. And there's probably something rare I want, and knowing my luck, would be taken by ebay hoarders. Gaming equipment is primarily meant to be enjoyed, not stored and hoarded.

I should just be glad I have one genuine Jag controller.

Also in addition to playing Atari Karts, it represents a bargain hunter's sport trophy of the thriil of the sport of the ebay and thrift store hunt. I still have my story of how I found one "not labeled as a pro controller", spotted it, bought it now for $20 when they retailed for $80 in 2003.

Obviously, most of you are bigger Atari Jaguar fans than I am. You should love what you collect. I loved the first Jag Pro controller enough to unlock Atari Karts, but not enough to share irt with an elusive hard-to-find 2UP at these prices (which is THANKFULLY WAY CHEAPER than ebay OEM Jag-Pro prices)

If I were richer and didn't have my fight stick project I was working on or had more Jaguar games that can use it and a 2UP, I'd take one and my chances on selling the other on ebay.

Enjoy.

Finally, I tried to convince my only Jaguar owning friend to go in halves and split them one apiece. He sad no. He has other priorities, and not just video game priorities.

October 14, 2018

When Atari released the Jaguar into the public domain use of the Atari logo was not part of the deal. Reproducing the pro controller is legal because Atari made it so. Putting the Atari logo on it is not. Setting that fact aside, count me as glad that the controller does not have the Atari logo on it. We should be able to tell the difference between this product and the original controller. Starwander is not trying to fool anyone about what he is selling. He has been 100% transparent about what he has been doing and what this is. He is selling it for a fair price. He isn't trying to rip people off on eBay. He certainly isn't reproducing the pro controller so others can buy it and then try to rip people off on eBay. If you want a couple of pro controllers for a reasonable price here is your opportunity. If your interest is in how you can make Starwander's hard work profitable for you then you can get bent. I see no reason why he should entertain a single complaint from such people.

Thanks for doing this. I have an Atari pro controller but I would like to have more. I look forward to trying them out!

* Three posts in a row from the same person to follow...

I know starwinder is just filling in a little community gap. I'm not saying he's tryign to make big bucks. I was just openly debatign whether to get a second controller, which requires me getting an unnecessary third controller. At first I had this face $) I asked if there was an option to buy one, Starwinder said no. Then I delved deep, do I really want to spend $60 on a second player for one game I have where a standard controller sucks, when I rarely have 2UPs, and I don't play much Jaguar NOW, and would me no more than a 5 minute curiosity to my friends and brother?

Add to the fact that I couldn't guarantee that the price wouldn't fetch the retail $60 for 1 if i was honest and told them it was the Strawinder Re-Pro Jag Pro. It could be worth more than $60 if you only need one, it could be worth less. It may be worth more but cost big bucks in headaches if the buyer doens't understand it's a community shortage stopper. and is not meant to be an original, or a reproduction in order to deceive.

After further recollection, if the odds are greater that Aliens will visit earth in my lifetime than I will find a player 2 who wants to play Atari Karts, then maybe me paying $125 for 2 controllers, and hoping to sell one for $60+ without headaches is too much for me, especially for one game.

I decided to put some of that money in tototek fight stick adapters for Genesis and SNES. That would be WAY more useful than a 2UP controller for one game.

I'm glad the Atari Jaguar community enjoys this. If the orders come down to one Jag Pro for $60 MAYBE once I'm done with my fight stick, I'll consider it. I don't need two more. I'm glad I found a Genuine Pro Pad for $20 in 2003. I shouldn't get greedy. It's just as likely that Jag-pro reproswill be less expensive than $60/stick as it would be more expensive. I'll take my chances on a coin flip.

October 13, 2018

That is true. If you announce "they are not genuine Jaguar controllers", the price may go down, even thought you can couch it up by saying they are following the original patent design and quality on everything except the Atari Logo, which is true.

Likewise it would be cruel to not mention the fact they are Re-pros and you fetch a very close to genuine Atari Price for it, and then have someone return it because I didn’t mention it was a re-pro. They’d say, "Where’s the Atari logo?" And have a bitter fight with ebay. I just don’t want to deal with the headaches with a re-pro, patent-expired "tribute" copy designed to feel and play exactly like a genuine Atari, but made by an indie to fill a shortage on the market. If i say it’s too similar, I’d get sendbacks if they thought it was genuine. If I play it off as a copy, I’d get nowhere near the retail price because some people will suspect it’s a cheap cash-in knockoff. The only way they’d know about this is if they follow the Atari Age forum. But if you follow this Atari Age forum, you won’t pay more than $60 plus shipping today.

I just don’t know if the ebay market will treat is as more than $60 or a less than $60 item. I understand it’s not a contemporary knockoff. But I don’t know what ebay will think.

I really don’t need a second joystick for something that is more than a 5-minute curiosity among my friends. If the price goes down on a re-pro, I’ll take advantage of it and be glad I have a genuine Atari and a second oh-so-close re-pro. If it goes up, I’ll say it was too risky to go into hock for something that may not achieve its repro retail value on ebay, and be glad I have a genuine Atar, and be glad for the richer folks that got on it.

By the way, don't turn it into a 6-button rotary control, It would be a waste on a repro since (i heard) Tempset 2000, the only game with rotary control, (unless you count retro brew Super Sprint.) doesn't use keypad buttons (and if it's a literal arcade translation, Super Sprint doesn't use it either.). Likewise I'm smart enough to know, if I'm going to make a pad hack fight stick, use a common 3 button one, because the other 5 buttons equal keypad presses in a more convenient form. Plius with a little ingenuity, I can get the other 5 joystick buttons to equal ANY 5 keypad presses, not just the default ones thet thew Pro Controllers allow. By the way, what ARE the 5 buttons that the Pro COntrollers use. It seems like they're programmable by the ROM, because I've seen 1 and 3 equal L and R and I've seen 4 and 6 equal L and R on Missile Command 3D and Atari Karts respectively. Are the pro extra buttons programmable by the ROM and can change from game to game, or is there one "dumb mapping"? Primal Rage's Pro Controller scheme, based on the scanned instructions, makes me question the "dumb mapping theory"

October 13, 2018

Back to the subject, who said anything about using the thumb on the disc. I use my right INDEX FINGER on the disc, and move it to press keypad buttons, and use the left thumb, index and middle fingers for the buttons. The only 2 things tat do work simultaneously are the pad and the buttons. If a keypad is pushed, the buttons and disc make it do weird things if presses together.

Probably the finest ergonomic example and the pinnacle of the American Era in Video Gaming was the Colecovision Super Action Controller. One hand on the joystick, and one finger on each of the 4 buttons. He joystick hand also operated the keypad and the roller wheel. All Coleco games were designed so you don't have to use the roller, joystick and keypad all at the same time. The buttons was your home controls.

Also if you let go of the buttons, the controller falls. Your left hand was used to holding controls since the 2600 days.

Even the mighty 2600 had almost every third party making lefty (actually Aambidextrous) third party sticks and lefty pin-swap adapters. And the computers had some games with software-based lefty modes.

Why do none of the Japanese companies have rightie sticks? It took Beeshu to make right handed arcade sticks for the NES, Sega Master System, TG16, and Genesis. I have to literally get yelled at by people at Shoryuken who either don't understand sticks are for more than just fighting games, or don't know a possible danger in fixed mapping according to a mirror standard only. If you've played Tutankham, Side Arms, or Pac-Land you know exactly what I'm talking about with just 2 buttons. Left fire button to fire right, and vice versa. Most people on Shoryuken do good work, they just don't see the need for flex mapping. Unless you specifically mention it, everyone assumes you're joystick left, and you are happy with that.

Visit http://56ok.org/Ambidextrous to read a story on how, for 2 weeks I was the local king of Street Fighter, and one of the people I beat in 1993 you may have heard of if you followed video game competitions from 2005-2009. The secret is a right handed fight stick. Then the joystick broke down in 2 weeks, and (I'll name them) KY Enterprises' idea of customer service was solder it yourself.

Nintendo said learn to play and beat the other guys using your off hand. It was Sega who recommended KY Enterprise for custom sticks. They gave me 2 weeks of joy worth a lifetime, and $50-75 wasted in 2 weeks in 1993.

October 13, 2018

I guess it depends on the game. There are 3 independent buttons.

Games that require all 3 I claw grip with my left hand thumb on the bottom left buton, middle finger on the bottom right, and index finger on top side. and use my right index finger for the disc and keypad presses.

If the game just uses a single top button, or all 4 buttons have the same function, since I'm used to thumbing it on the Colecovision, because on the standard controller, the thumb was the primary button, the thumb is the instant habit, but I can see advantages to an index finger.

If the game uses the top button and synched bottom buttons, I use my index and middle fingers, but can resort to a thumb when they get tired.

If it just uses asymmetrical bottom buttons, the thumb on left bottom, and index finger on right bottom.

I guess if a game requires rapid manual fire, and either the top and bottom or the botom left and bottom right are symmetric, I tend to use all 3, but in alternating shifts of 2 at a time.

On Mouse Trap, which requires quick key presses, I use my left thumb to activate the doors and dog, it's just in a slightly different position compared to the Colecovision.

And I'm disc right. I can't really answer the question because it depends on the game.

October 13, 2018

WTF.

What I'm saying is I rarely have a second player over, and they are most likely not going to play Atari Karts, and you really need only 2 pro controllers at most (Unless you "hold the controller" instead of "laying the controller down and 2 fingering it" like a Genesis controller on NBA Jam, then you can make an argument for 4 Pros). So one genuine Atari brand one is fine with me.

And who knows how the ebay market will respond if someone splits a pair and sell one Re-Pro Jag-Pro. If they get more than $65 for one, more power to them. But it's just as likely the ebay market might DEVALUE it becuase it is not a genuine Atari Controller. Most genuine Sega 3-button controllers go for $10.00 on ebay, compared to $5 for "unlicensed third party" 6-button joysticks. and Genuine 6-ers go from $15-20. I notice the more common the knockoffs were, the cheaper they were. NES knockoffs go for $5, while NES orginais go from $10-20. but a Naki 3DO goes for $15, only $5 less than a Goldstar 3DO.

Because it wasn't a"back in the day ripoff" like most third party controllers are, and maybe, because it's advertised as "everything genuine except the Atari logo" and designed to fill a market, not cheaply exploit it, it MIGHT hold its value more than a back-in-the-day ripoff controller, but probably the genuine Atari brand ones will fetch more ebay money, just because they are genuine Atari brand.

October 13, 2018

Does anyone havea problem with the "paddle games" on the Xbox One Atari compilations? I tried Warlords and Breakout, and to get he genuine experience, and the ability to "dial any posiition" I selected absolute posiitioning. Otherwise it feels like a "joystick replacement" version of it.

This setup would make the Atari 5200 controllers a welcome edition. Because when you try to finely dial a position, you have to actively HOLD it in postion, instead of a 2600 paddle or 5200 stick of moving to the postition and relaxing. You're actually using muscles to fight centering resistance.

That's why self centering would be a bad thing in most analog 5200 games, even though it would come in handy in digital 5200 games.

I tried purchasing something that lets you plug in Atari 2600 paddles. Apparently the Xbox One doesn't support it. Too many of the games are too controller-specific, whether it be paddles, spinners, trackballs, flight yolks, or light guns.

Some of these games are unplayable with a standard controller, especially paddle games.

October 13, 2018

4 controllers: Gauntlet II

3 controllers: Rampage, SuperSprint (WIP)

Aren't those "homebrew prints" meaning they weren't retail cartridges and/or discs when the Atari Jaguar was considered a "current" system, and only came when the access code 64020141 (which in 7 hexadecimal-digit code was 3d0dead) was tried and published as a way to easily make homebrew Jag games.

I wasn't implying those weren't the only more-than-2 player games, just all the "current brew" titles.

By the way, does Super Sprint use the rotary controller, and is that considered an Atari title or a Midway title? (those 2 companies inter-mingled along with Bally and Williams and Warner Bros. so it' a complicated history.)

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