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Posts posted by tripletopper

  1. Do you believe the self centering should be repaired too or just the buttons with the gold dots and new circuits?


    BTW.the "coin competition"  (really the "Competition Pro Joystick," the company has Coin in the name) is the brand name of a back in the day third party digital stick with a built in y adapter for a 5200 controller used for keypad functions.


    And since I have one, I shouldn't need self centering on the stock controller.

  2. Yes, I heard of Best Electronics fixed sticks.  I heard there is an official bulldef who builds for them I heard are the best way to enjoy the 5200.. I got 3 control corpses that I can recycle.


    I have a 4 port and got 3 (old)  sticks.  Assuming I have 4 players, are there any games worth getting third and even a fourth stick fixed for (that you think are worth it.  Both BITD releases and Retrobrews worth getting an Everdrive-like  5200 SD card adapter for?) 


    If Tutankham were released, with  the fact that 4 buttons are mirrored, you can have both main/aux fire games and l/r fire games covered easily.  Start with your right fire button (top or bottom, the other side is left and other height)  That's a way to ambidexterize L/R games on 5200.


    BTW, if I have a Coin Competition. Would you think it be best to leave them free floating, or should I get that factory snap back?


  3. I admit I only got it in the 90s when I was thrifting, so in one sense the answer is no in that I didn't have it during "back in the day."  I was more of a Coleco guy.  But in another sense I do have a 5200 as a physical system through thrifting.


    I found one of those digital joysticks (those coin competition joysticks) in a lot box at a thrift store. A 4 port system, a working power cord for that system, 2 regular controls, 1 Coin Competition and 5 games for $15 in 1997. 


    Inderstand that a diagonal would be 100% in both cardinals therefore 141% in radius (x^2 +y^2 = r^2 ) therefore having diagonal speed boosts in Dreadnought Factor. I know some games mess up with that. there are few games you could test to see if diagonal screw them up like Qix, Vanguard, Mountain King, Popeye.  All of them are 4-way games.


    I've never gotten a 5200 controller when it was new so I assumed that it was intentionally free floating.  Did any one else  feel fatigue fighting the centering of the stick in Kaboom, Warlords, or Super Breakout on either a Playstation 4, Xbox One, Switch, or even a 5200 controller  (when new) ?


    as a coleco guy I would say the coleco is larger and more detailed in graphics  than the 5200 but the 5200 has arcade like speeds and fluid animations.  It was probably the original case of Genesisn't and Nintendon't.

  4. 16 hours ago, phuzaxeman said:

    I don't agree that just because you use a trackball vs the stock controllers your fundamentally change your play.  And you don't need to change divisions either.


    The high score is dependent on the person and his preference.  I prefer the analog sticks.  I've gotten high scores with it too. 

    I'm not saying definitely put them in two different divisions.  I'm saying if one has an obvious advantage and no obvious disadvantage there MAY be a case of placing the lower score in a separate category.


    however usually the achiever of that goal declares that as a stipulation for that particular title.  Like "blindfolded Mike Tyson.". The achiever self-segregates that record.


    I know MAME and real arcade hardware are separate categories, as well as separate home versions, sub-categorized by real consoles vs emulated ones.


    some people could say that you have to use slightly different strategies for stock controller Missile Command versus trackball controller Missile Command.  Since stock controller Missile Command requires a precise hand to go quickly from one portion of the screen to the other in a frame, versus trakball Missile Command where you can't instantly warp your cursor from one point to another you have to roll the ball there, (Granted it's a fairly fast roll but it may be more controlled and more precisely hit if it takes time to get there versus instantaneous pinpoint point-to-point movement) a strategy in stock control Missile Command would be the exactly hit the point shoot a missile and go immediately to the next Point quickly, where is Trakball Missile Command you have to plan your route more carefully.)


    And Dreadnought Factor you could go at 141% of your vector speed if you use diagonals versus Cardinals using a digital joystick that doesn't compensate for the circular restrictor.  But with the analog you have more directions you could go in so it's not just a cardinal or diagonal but many directions in between.


    There's also a possibility that the best stock stick score can't do well with the trackball and vice versa.   like for example when Street Fighter 2 tournaments were mainly in the arcade, I wouldn't do well because they all have left-handed controllers.


    Also isn't the whole point of Defender to have very complex controls like a supposedly real starship?  Changing thrust and reverse to left and right changes the mechanics of operating the ship and therefore is not different enough than any other typical shooter at the time.  When most people think of Defender in the arcade they think of the complex layout.



  5. You need to carry a controller toolbox with:


    1.5200 stock stick with worn out self centering.

    2.  Either a stock stick with good centering OR both a PC flight stick and a Bohoki adapter.

    3. A digital solution 

    4.  A Proline Trakball

    5.  A twin stick cradle and a second stick.


    Most games have obvious high score advantages.   If there are 2 ways to do it, should be placed in separate divisions.  (Like Dreadnaught Factor, with a Diagonal Speed Boost on digital controllers vs analog's 360 degree controller)


    Which controller gets high scores with Missile Command. A Trakball has a lot of players having to use muscle memory, vs the absolute control on a stock pad, which are better once mastered, but are very hard to master.  (Forget it if centering resistance fights back)



    Because Missile Command uses absolute analog on stick, and relative analog on trackball, you play with those fundamentally differently.   I know trackball is more true to the "spirit of the game".   Which has the highest scores at the top?  Which has the highest average? Should they be separate high score divisions with this difference?


    Any other games with this radical of a difference?


  6. I'm trying THIS combination for a Digital 5200 joystick.


    1.  A PCB-fight stuck where you add a console's hacked PCB to make it work (or for the 2600, Astrocade, and Master System, a direct point to point actuation.)

    2.  A 15-Pin PC "NES STYLE" 2 button pad to be pad-hacked for a project box, an alternate name for a naked joysticks and the wearable PCBs as it's clothing.

    3.  A @Bohoki 15 pin PC to Atari 5200 converter.


    Speaking of which, I got one Bohoki Adapter years ago, and would prefer a second one if this set up works.  Since we only have 2 sticks by the end, all I need is one more Bohoki.  But they are probably in limited supply.  I want to eventually get one, but only if this works and if other people had a reasonable chance to get one.


    How is the Bohoki shop going, Bohoki?  Have some extra adapters that I can buy one of and not empty the shelves?


  7. 5 hours ago, doubledown said:

    Or just build yourself a proper controller for the 5200...and then enjoy the 5200:





    if those are self-centering analog controls then you got everything a proper 5200 needs, either a left-handed, right-handed or two-handed joystick that centers properly, with two action buttons and a keypad. (Can the buttons be reversed for games like tutankham, with a left and right fire?  If using index to index mapping, one of the 2 hands would be backwards for tutankham.)

  8. To quote Scotty from Star Trek 3: the more they overthink the plumbing,  the easier it is to stop the drain.


    The 5200 joystick was Atari overthinking the plumbing.


    I always assumed the 5200 controllers were DESIGNED as non self centering joysticks ( only hearing horror stories until I picked up one on a Ken Awesome thrift trip, )  for use with Kaboom and Super Breakout and Star Wars Arcade.  It turned out to be an accident from a poor centering mechanism that broke.



  9. 1. You're right.  I though I saw a SCART on one side and a VGA on the other ...  and there were no pictures of the other side except disassembled which is too small for VGA. relative to SCART.


    2.  Luckily, I can convert HDMI to VGA. So it's SCART to HDMI to VGA.  Let's hope with my new knowledge of OBS only accepting one video source per USB input that this will work.  Now I'm better able to fix OVS problems.  Also unplugging and replugging USB helps too, but forces you to redefine OBS video sources every broadcast 

  10. On 12/30/2020 at 11:15 PM, NE146 said:

    When I was a kid in 1981 or whatever, and had a launch 5200 where the controllers degraded under heavy use until the buttons stopped working e.g. "Start". So I had all these games and I couldn't play 99% of them and I was unable at the time to fix them, so I am a veteran of this world. :lol: 


    That said.. "bad" at what? 


    Reliability? As far as the originals out of the box, yes. 100% 


    Control? It depends on the game As long as they were functional, I had zero problems with the non-centering sticks. It's a myth that 5200 Pacman/Ms. Pac didn't work well with it. They play fine. However it did NOT work well for the tricky parts of Montezuma's Revenge for example. :)  So yeah it depends. I think they control fine at the end of the day.. if they worked (which is a big IF).  It was worthless to be able to start Space Dungeon but could not shoot to the X < 0 coordinates :lol:

    I agree that platformers would suck with non-self-centering.


    So would any game where the stick indicates where you go.  Either fight stick or 15 Pin PC controller with Bohoki adapter.


    But games where the stick indicates where you are, like Kaboom, and Missile Command, are the games the 5200 stick are designed for.


    Those buttons suck .


    Strange that your x axis broke on the left of center. But not right.   Try disassbling and rebuilding it?






  11. Two things about the super actio controller.


    On one of my four controllers, winky could go north, Winky could go west , but Winky could not go Northwest.  Is that a sign to replace the octopus piece?


    The second thing is I remember best electronics making forever 5200 buttons with a mod that always make sure your buttons connect.  I'm surprised no one's tried that for the clickovision super extra controllers some sort of mod that make the buttons work better.  I heard to adequately clean them you have to take them apart real bad and for the price of hiring someone to take them apart I'd rather have someone mod them so that regular maintenance cleanings are no longer needed.

  12. The potentiometers I don't think ever broke.  It was those Space Age buttons that don't feel substantial 


    both the 5200 buttons and the super action controller buttons for the ColecoVision always had problems.


    Best Electronics made a forever button mod but the joystick is relatively reliable,  assuming you assemble it correctly.


    Also I thought of another use for that bohoki adapter you got for your PC joystick.  I'm hoping you could pad hack an NES Style PC 15 pin joystick and hook it up to a "naked" fight stick and you have a digital joystick for the Atari 5200 for games where you when you absolutely positively have to be neutral at a certain time.


    Plus I found cheap 15-pin PC joysticks that I could use for those analog games where it's good to self-center.


  13. 2 minutes ago, doubledown said:

    I'm not sure what "post" you're talking about, but the OP never mentioned "verticalness" of the CX-52.  He mentions their reliability, but not anything regarding "verticalness".



    Post 6 in this chain, from GoldenWheels.


    About that was a typo...  It supposed to be Kaboom.


    Actually Kaboom, Star Wars Arcade Missile Command, and Super Breakout, all work well with a non-self-centering controller.  I admit it's not a dial but a non-self-centering stick for those games is better than a self-centering stick for those games .


    And I was bringing up a way you could bring the paddle feel of the original 2600 panel controllers (kinda, it's the most important thing is a dial that does not recenter) on the PlayStation 4 and Xbox One versions of Atari Flashback.  I know there's three volumes on PlayStation and Xbox but the Switch is one collection and the "paddle games" are distributed throughout all 3 game collections.

  14. 2 minutes ago, AtariBrian said:

    Said no one in the history of the world!!!

    Actually it was an attempt to combine a paddle and a joystick in One controller but also turn a one-dimensional paddle into a two-dimensional one.  Except literally for Warlords, Breakout, Kaboom, and Star Wars Arcade, I see no purpose for a non-self-centering stick.


    But that was Atari's logic at the time from where I see it.  The intellivision use the 16 ways to simulate a paddle by rotating your finger on the paddle.  The Colecovision had the Speed Wheel that wasn't used until the Super Action Controller.  You could see the direction in the industry was going in at that time.


    Later we found out it was directly into a brick wall.

  15. 1 minute ago, AtariBrian said:

    No offense to Ed but his ambidextrous layout is not ergonomically good. Why the choice to even go that route is beyond me. My 2 cents...

    May I either see or can you describe what is not good about Edladdin's ambidextrous layout.  I want to give my aspiring-professional analysis once I see it.  Is it a  vertical layout, in which case I described that problem literally 30 minutes ago.  Something else I'll talk about later as I see it.

  16. 5 minutes ago, MrMaddog said:

    The problem wasn't with the design of the controllers but the fact they just don't WORK....even a couple days after buying the very expensive 5200 console, which kept a lot of Atari Service Centers busy up until the Crash.


    (And yes I bought a 5200 from an auction which wasn't much cause it came in a box of other crap that no one wanted)


    If I were to play on a real 5200, then I'll have to have the trackball controller with a Masterplay converter (or clone of one) with a proper 2600 joystick.  That covers large majority of games.  For non-trackball supported games that do require absoulte analog control then I would get the refurbished 5200 joysticks from Best Electonics.


    another weird problem was that most of the games that were made for the 5200 were mainly arcade games and the "base controller" you got was an analog controller with no self-centering.


    Why was it not self-centering? because that was perfect for games like Warlords and Super Breakout, and Kabion and similar games where you have to "dial a position".  And they expanded it from being one-dimensional to two-dimensional.  I prefer the 5200 controller for Missile Command because it has that dial a position mode where you can just point to where you want relative to the screen instead of relative to where you are currently, and get there inside.  the trackball takes time to get to where you need to go, even though it is a very quick time, it's still greater than one frame.


    Actually that's a problem with modern controllers is if you're trying to play the Atari collection you can't play Warlords or breakouts the way you're supposed to because you're fighting the self-centering.  Wired up Retro, a YouTube channel I follow,  recommends buying one of those steering wheel controllers for the PlayStation 4 Xbox One, and do not "sand down" one of these teeth gears if you want the wheel to stay in place for games like Warlords Break out in kaboom. 


    If you want one, they're like 10 bucks on eBay, though they don't make one for the Switch yet.





  17. 9 minutes ago, doubledown said:

    @tripletopper, completely off topic, and all about your Sinister Stick, that nobody but you cares about...for the bazilliointh time here on AA.  I'm not sure if you read the first post in this thread, but the OP's question was about people's thoughts and/or opinions, of the 5200's controllers, the CX-52.  No where in your long-keyed post, do you provide your review or opinion or insight regarding the CX-52...but you do, for the bazillionth time here on AA, talk about ambidexterity in controllers...that again, nobody but you cares about.  Please give it a rest, and if you're going to post a reply in someone's thread, try to keep it on topic.  

    I can explain how it's on topic:  this post list were talking about the verticalness of the 5200 controller which was similar to the intellivision and ColecoVision.  And I was talking about the primary purpose of verticality was ambidexterity but the side effect was holding the controller building your muscles and making ambidextrity a requirement to succeeding well if you play a marathon session.  That was my legitimate segue into SinisterSticks.


    By the way,  I was trying to be polite by putting most of the stuff that was associated with the Sinister Sticks that is well published on Atari Age in the "hidden comments" so that if you read them before you don't have to read them again.  I thought that was a way to politely say this is babbling a little off topic but if you're interested click. If not don't.


    Most of the comments that are not hidden in spoilers are pretty new from me and most relevant to the topic give-and-take.


    @doubledown , would you like to take that back under that light?



  18. Hello I had myself a Retrotink SCART to ypbpr converter, and it worked fine.  However some capture cards were having trouble with 240p YCbCr.


    I traded it for a Retro Tink SCART to VGA line doubler.  It'll be in the mail by next week.


    I noticed the PlayStation 2 and GameCube have problems with interlaced video.  Luckily of all the games tested,  only 19 out of like 300+ games for the Xbox Prime were "interlaced only.". That's how I found out that my VGA CRT monitor doesn't do interlaced video


    first of all I should I assume that the Hauppauge Rocket, when just used as a video converter, only converts the physical form of the video from composite, S-Video, and component, to HDMI, but the display mode and resolution remain the same?


    Second does the Hauppauge Rocket do 240p via S-Video which I heard is a possibility of S-Video?  And does the rocket have problems with 240p via 3 RCA ypbpr?


    Third. If I play my Master System, Sega Tower of Power, Sega Saturn Sega Dreamcast and Super NES model 1, which could all accept scarred without modding the system, does either the Retrotink device convert any interlaced video into progressive or is there something in the internal chips of those systems and assume that if SCART is being used that progressive video will always be outputted.  In other words if a game is in interlaced mode for any of those systems, will it not work on the Retrotink?


    Now question about the GameCube Wii and Wii U.  If the Wii U is in 720p will we games that are normally in 480i get "progressivized" (de-interlaced). If I play GameCube games on the Wii, will the Wii deinterlace all GameCube games or only run ones with a native progressive mode?


    I know about the operating system being in progressive mode on the Xbox Prime just press both analog sticks in and triggers down and hold it down like a second or two to switch between progressive and interlaced.


    I also noticed weird artifacts on my PlayStation 3D TV that when Legend of Zelda Wind Waker was in 480p, the PlayStation 3 TV had gobbledygook in places that were normally black picture, like a transparency code or something.


    just wondering if there's going to be any weird behaviors dealing with a VGA CRT monitor that doesn't have an interlace mode 


    By the way, when converting HDMI to VGA, my CRT beat my PlayStation 3D TV by one frame.  Guess which one I'm playing my modern games on?





  19. You have to understand what was going on in the minds of video game makers at the time with vertical controls.


    There were very few established video game standards.  people were complaining that the Atari 2600 controller was right-handed only when arcades were offering ambidextrous layouts with buttons on both sides of the stick.   The Bally, Intellivision, and ColecoVision all had ambidextrous controllers.  The Bally didn't use the keypad so therefore it was easier and more intuitive way to make ambidextrous joysticks via the gun trigger handle.


    The Intellivision and Colecovision had similar designs, vertical controllers exist to address the problem of ambidexterity    The new problem it introduced was arm asymmetry where your arms were in two different positions to manipulate the joystick and the buttons.  That's why most fight sticks are considered arm symmetric.  Of course they gave up ambidexterity to allow for that.


    The joke is the reason the reason why those controllers CAN be either left or right-handed is because in a marathon record breaking session of a game, it'll eventually HAVE TO BE alternately left-handed and right-handed.  Using my muscles to actually hold the joystick and then the arm asymmetry makes those ambidextrous arm-asymmetric pre-crash controllers a workout.



    throughout my life I've been trying to find a right-handed fight stick ever since be sure went out of business and no one made a six button right-handed joystick.  A lot of things are printed on my website sinistersticks.com.and to avoid scrolls to text I'm going to box the rest where you only open if desired.



    In 1993 my original version of my Sinister stick was separable joystick and button panel held on by velcro tape.  Nyko made a version for Street Fighter 4 for PS3 in 2012.


    In 2000 when playing around with my Dreamcast alloy stick from interact I found two things.  One is that if you could swap the buttons around you could easily ambidextrous a joystick by using button programming.  Unfortunately unless I explicitly show the button programming people disqualify the joystick because it has a potential of macros even if I don't use them.


    And the second thing is that the main obstacle to the 180 method of ambidexterity was the opposite hand button contour layout.  If you ever tried the alloy stick the buttons smile at you and not frown it's like the joystick is mocking you for playing right handed by smiling at you for having to deal with an awkward button layout.


    the easiest solution is just to use a straight eight layout (American perfectly rectangular two rows of 4).  I had a street fighter 15th anniversary stick, permenantly swapped to be rewired for right stick.  Later Qanba made a similar version that lets you switch back and forth with a flick of a switch or a press of a button.


    There's three reasons why those 2 models failed.  One is contour.  Two was the fact there was no 360 version, the way more popular version in Europe and America where ambidexterity would sell better than Japan.  The third was lack of system licensing.



  20. Speaking of the Coin Controls.  I notice in the 5200 version (a great thrift store pickup in the '90s I might say.) that the left button is the bottom Fire button or main fire button and the right button is the auxiliary button or top fire button.  


    First of all, is there a button swap switch somewhere in the user-friendly world of not opening the machine?  Second, is there a way to do it with electronic surgery?  3 would a way to do it without your joystick being operated on be as simple as inserting a female to male 15 pin which just swaps the one for the bottom button and the top button if you wanted to left hand at joystick assuming you want your main fire on your right thumb?  


    Also was there a version of a 5200bgame that has distinct left and right fire that isn't the twin stick game that could also use that kind of substitution similar to Tutankham?  I know the default Atari controller could handle it you just adjust your hand grip so that the index is on the Main and the thumb is on the auxiliary.




  21. 37 minutes ago, godslabrat said:


    The herb cannot be legally hidden.  If it's not on the label, it's not in the bottle.  We've told you that, your pharmacist told you that, the Food and Drug Administration told you that.


    If, after all that, you still think Dragon Punch is the authority on the matter, there's no helping you.

    I never said the "Dragon Punch" website was an authority on cd cleaning.


    I went to them because that's where people go to learn how to build custom fight sticks.  I wanted to buy one.


    I need to have a right handed fight stick.  They've had it out for me when I challenged the notion that left stick is pro-player, when I say left stick is pro-arxade owner.


    The fact that I didn't trust them is the precise reason why I wrote you guys.  I suspected they were lies, which you guys confirmed.


    Thank you. :)


  22. 3 hours ago, HoshiChiri said:

    70% iso is NOT a 'new phenomenon'. It's been around for years.


    I did some googling, just becuase I was curious:


    The term 'rubbing alcohol' dates back to the prohibition era & was used to emphasize the product was for external use, not for drinking. ALSO, it was a very different product than today, being a liniment for massage ("rubbing"!) A liniment is a tincture of infused herbs, so I imagine this is the source of the confusion.


    These days, in the US there's two kinds of 'rubbing alcohol'- isopropyl rubbing alcohol is 50-99% pure iso, with the remainder being water. Ethyl rubbing alcohol has additives, but not herbal- acetone, for example. The idea is to make sure people don't drink the stuff! 


    A rubbing alcohol may contain non-medical additives for color or fragrance-so no herbs. Plus, the only one I can find noted, methyl salicylate, usually results in the product being labeled 'wintergreen oil', not rubbing alcohol.


    Finally- and most importantly- this is for products with rubbing alcohol ON THE LABEL. If the label says 'isopropyl alcohol', then it's NOT rubbing alcohol. Iso is a common ingredient in homemade remedies, so it is sold as a separate product.


    So if you're still worried, don't buy rubbing alcohol- buy isopropyl alcohol.

    Thanks for confirming what I know: Don't use "rubbing alcohol".  If you use alcohol, use only xx% isopropylhol with the only other ingredient being water.

  23. 33 minutes ago, godslabrat said:

    1. there are versions of "rubbing alcohol" which have herbs.


    2.  Since my 70% Isopropylhol has as it's only other ingredient water, that's what I assume too.


    3.  Easy statement to accept don't need double guessing.  This lie at the dragon punch website says herbs are hidden.  I tried to see if it was confirmed.  Now if you guys also said herbs can be legally hidden, I'd try to ask my pharmacist, which said "just read the label.  If the label lies, especially on a mass basis,  you have a legitimate grievance."


    4.  My default position was to "read and believe the label".  The dragon punch website said "herbs can be legally hidden in isopropylhol." I knew since I challenged their "left hand sticks are superior for everyone" lie, I'd be an unintentional villain at the dragon punch website.


    At least I have the "the more sympathetic position" and the role of the underdog.  The stuff good feel-good movies are made of.


  24. Sorry.  I misread your comment at first.


    The fact that "rubbing alcohol" contains something other than alcohol and water, and to not use that,  is fairly well documented on cartridge cleaning and optical disc cleaning instructions .  The other "facts" is only on that one website.


    I'm "encoding" the name of a website where I heard it.


    Before there were 2 types: "rubbing alcohol" which was 70% alcohol some water and some herbs, and 91% isopropylhol, whose only other ingredient is water.


    I'm just trying to figure out if it has herbs or not.


    I assume with the name "70% isopropylhol" and the only inert ingredient being water, I assume it's diluted stuff, not the mix.


    The same dragon punch (code name) website is trying to convince me that a right handed  fight stick would not improve execution in Street Fighter 2.  Read my story about that.  sinistersticks.com

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