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RCorcoran

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Posts posted by RCorcoran

  1. Posted

    I remember back in the day I used to get the Activision newsletter and they would sometimes publish world records.  I can't remember the numbers, but I did beat what they had published as the world record for Skiing at the time.  I just know it was in the 27's.

     

    -Paul

     

    I have hard copies of all 7 "Activisions" newsletters if your interested. I can get them scanned and either post them here (with Al's consent) or on my own site.

  6. Posted

    I think everyone here at AtariAge is truly exceptional. Perhaps my view is a bit skewed due to the fact that we all love Atari. :) No matter. Except for a stray comment or two, everyone has been great. This is a class act community and I tip my hat to Albert & Alex and the rest of my fellow Atarians. I am very proud to count myself as one of you.

  7. Posted

    The obvious (to me) strategy for Barnstorming is to fly straight at the point JUST above the windmills, and dive to the highest possible point to clear the barns.  There will be some adjustment for birds, but these should be minimal and the amount of climb/dive should be as minimal as possible (since that slows you down).  The throttle should be held in at all times to maximize speed.

     

    I'm sure this strategy is way off base and if Todd ever reads this he will laugh at me for a week for being so naive.  But this is what occurs to me.

     

    Actually, you're right on the money about the technique. As for Todd laughing at you, highly doubtful.

  9. Posted

    Ron, I have a request about the Barnstorming experiment that you will be doing at the CGE. Please send me a video copy to analyze and compare to the emulator version. I took your word that the emulator is cycle exact, so any 32.50's done on the cartridge will be compared down to each pixel in order to see if it's possible to be done on the rom version.

     

    Not a problem. If I can walk away with the tape (or a copy), I will make sure you get a copy delivered ASAP.

     

    This brings me to another point. Senior referee Robert Mruczek has stated many times that a trick that allows you to go faster than is possible in the game, or gives you some sort of unfair advantage MUST be revealed to all gamers in fairness of the competition. Example is the analog stick trick for Doom64. Robert realized this makes for times that are normally impossible, so he notified all gamers involved.

     

    If there is in fact a "trick" that allows Todd to go faster than anyone else, I will be the first to disallow it as the Atari Editor. :)

     

    Now since Todd has no problem demonstrating his techniques to "huge public crowds of 40+", I cannot figure out for the life of me why it is forbidden to explain these techniques online. I heard it would make me kick myself if I new what he was doing, yet the persons who were fortunate enough to witness it have refused to describe it.  I also hope it has nothing to do with the birds, as my birdless hack totally removes that element.

     

    It's not forbidden, for Todd to explain his technique. It is, in my opinion, a breach of etiquette for me or anyone else to do so. Again, that's just my opinion.

     

    Ron, I hope that you will allow me to analyze the video. Because if I find there is a timing issue compared to the emulator, then we can all relax and be done with this mess. If it's instead a trick like the Doom64 example, then by Robert's ruling, it is our right to know what it is.

     

    I have no problem what-so-ever in sharing this video as Todd has already given his blessing. :)

  11. Posted

     

    It would also be a good idea for an impartial, third party to bring a copy of the game.  It could be contended that TG and/or Todd have had access to special versions in the past, but a fourth, randomly selected cartridge would eliminate this notion.  :thumbsup: 

     

    I have no problem with this at all. In fact, Al, you want to bring a cart? I know Joe or John (DP) usually bring carts for people to use...

  12. Posted

    Barnstorming is a pattern game, so if the 32.50 is possible, and Todd remembers how he did it, then it should be possible to reproduce it.

     

    I spoke with Todd at great length last night. He has agreed to bring all 3 variations of Barnstorming he owns to CGE and play a game on each cart. We will record all three games and capture all the necessary metadata for each.

  13. Posted

    There is and always will be people that need to win an argument.  The "Fart on your Hobby" technique is a favorite among the immature as an attempt to pull the rug out from under you.

     

    We've all experienced the argument over a toy where someone doesn't want to share and when they are forced to they say, "I really didn't want that anyway".

     

    My response to this technique is usually silence.  Since I enjoy my hobby and the person believes it is a waste of time, we have nothing in common, so I move on.  Maybe I'm older than the average AtariAge member and I've been hearing the same put downs since I started gaming in 1975, so I just tune them out. :)

     

    Right on! I too started playing videogames around 75-76 so I know where you're coming from. It does get absurd from time to time...

  15. Posted

    Hi,

     

    I am the web designer for Todd's Beat The Champ Site, after reading these 5 pages of posts, I felt it was time to step in and say a few words. Please feel free to visit his site @ http://www.beatthechamp.com  click on the AtariAge link on the first page.  

     

    Thanks and I hope you check out my comments on the site.

     

    April  :roll:

     

    April:

     

    Can you put the link back on Todd's front page? Or am I just blind? :) I would like to see what was written as we had a 5.5 hr. power outtage last night... :(

  16. Posted

    I don't get this decision. Not at all.  Why would you not permit the 32.50 time to stand in the recordbooks just because it was not taped?  According to your account, the 32.50 time was performed before a live audience of 40 or more, which included three qualified TG judges.  How much more proof could you possibly want!

     

    Well, there are those who feel that, qualified or not, the word of a TG official is not sufficient evidence. Therefore, I will not allow the 32.50. Reason, simple... I'm tired of this and want to move on to the next controversy... :)

     

    A videotape of a record-breaking videogame score is compelling evidence of accomplishment, but it is not foolproof.  I would take the word of live witnesses over a player's contributed videotaping any day.   A video tape does not answer any of the following questions...

     

     WAS THE CONSOLE MODIFIED? - A player obsessed with getting his name in the recordbooks may have modified his console to slow it down, allowing him to play a game at a slightly slower speed than the rest of the world plays it.  In games where reaction time is critical to high scoring, such a modification would give the player an unfair advantage.

     

     WAS THE GAME CARTRIDGE MODIFIED? - Although a normal-looking Barnstorming cartridge may be quite visible and identifiable on a videotape, who's to say that the ROM card inside it has not been replaced by an EPROM board containing an imperceptibly tweaked version of the game? It's not impossible to hack the original .BIN file and disable or reduce the duty cycle of time penalty subroutines in order to shave the hundredths of a second off your time needed to achieve a new world record.

     

      WAS THE GAME SETUP LEGITIMATE? - Although a normal-looking 2600 console and cartridge may be what's seen on the videotape, who's to say that's what is actually playing the game?  It could be that the joystick bypasses the pictured console and feeds into an emulator, not seen on the tape, but which has been set up with parameters that give the player an unfair advantage.  Maybe the emu has a bug in it that the player realized could be used to shave a few hundredths of a second off his scores.

     

    WAS THE GAME PLAYER PICTURED ACTUALLY PLAYING THE GAME? - Or was he only going through the motions when, in fact, the game was being controlled by some other input mechanism?  For a game as simple as Barnstorming, where precision of joystick motion is what it's all about, a clever programmer could write a program which PLAY S Barnstorming optimally.  It would be a matter of writing UP, DOWN, LEFT and RIGHT codes, executing them at programmed time intervals,  synchronizing the signals to the "real" Barnstorming game and feeding them into the 2600 console's game port.  THe videotape could show the player's hands thrashing madly at the joystick, but the real action is performed with machine precision by on off-camera computer program.

     

    Very interesting points... I may have to pay *special* attention if you submit scores. ;)

     

    Now,  I am not making accusations at anyone by any of the questions I have raised.  I'm not suggesting that anyone has cheated, nor am I drawing the integrity of anyone in particular into question. I couldn't care less who owns what World Record.  My point is: Video tape is NOT better than live witnesses when it comes to authenticating a world record. Live witnesses are vastly more observant, more intelligent and better equipped at confirming reality than the lens of a videogame player with an obvious self-bias.  Live witnesses absorb the entire picture, not just the selected window of reality submitted on tape by a game player (and I don't mean anyone in particular) who may stop at nothing to own a World Record.

     

    If 40 live witnesses say that Todd Rogers did 32.50, that's good enough for me.  Especially if the 40 included three official TG judges.  If it's not good enough for you, if you guys can't trust what you see with your own eyes at a live demonstaration... what good are you?  "It don't count if it's not on tape" is tantamount to saying you don't trust your own observations or your abilities to get the facts straight unless they are taped. You are implying your belief that videotape IS superior to your own observations.

     

    I don't think I could have stated that any more eloquently...

     

    Do you videotape yourselves when you enter high scores into your database or when you write them into text editors when you create your TG pages for publication? How can we be SURE you got it right?  If you had the confidence to say, "Because we are competent enough at what we do, we trust our own abilities," that would be proof enough for me.  If you were to boldly state, "32.50 is the world record because WE witnessed it," I would accept that over a videotape 'proof' any day.  A statement like that would tell me you do trust your own selves as credible witnesses, and that a TG Referee is someone who can think and stand on his feet at the same time... including the time it takes him to walk from a live demonstration (or from his VCR) over to his computer and enter the record straight in the database, without having a camera trained on him.  

     

    Ben

     

    What all this boils down to is really quite simple. Billy Mitchell made the statement that ALL games must be videotaped to be considered real. While that statement does have some merit in certain circumstances, I do not subscribe to it 100%. For the past 3 years I have run live events at CGE, with hundreds of players on many different platforms (and coin-ops). Neither I or TG can afford to videotape each and every performance. There simply isn't enough time or money to do this at these types of events. Walter has run live events across North America for over 20 years, and has rarely videotaped those events. He captures the scores manually that are witnessed by himself and TG refs. Should we now invalidate all scores in the dBase or book that have no videotape evidence? If so, that would remove roughly 99% of what Walter and many others have worked for over the past 20 years.

     

    Just my $0.02

  17. Posted

     

    And if Todd played a 32.50 game in front of three witnesses (including Ron) last year, then IMO there is no reason to disbelieve them.

     

    To some degree I agree, but it could not and would not hurt to have a physical record of some kind, those 3 guys won't live forever you know (I don't think).

     

    Wait a minute! You mean I CAN'T live forever?! Damn! I was hoping to play Atari games well past the time the sun explodes... ;)

  18. Posted

    "While I do not feel that Ron's resolve of the situation was either apologetic with regards to some of his comments nor done with a "smile on his face", it is very fair and just of TG, which is all that is required or could be asked."

     

    Thank you Jeff. I merely stated the facts as I had them. I am more than willing to admit a mistake or correct an injustice. I have no ego to bruise... :) In all things in life, I try to be fair to the best of my ability. Very rarely do I let emotion get in the way. That's not to say I'm not passionate about things, but I try not to let that cloud the issue.

  19. Posted

    As I stated previously, the record I have from Todd that is verified on tape is 32.77. This is the score that will be put into the database once I have an opportunity to speak to Todd about everything that has transpired. The 32.50 at CGE last year was performed, but not taped, therefore it cannot stand until reproduced on tape or .avi. Hence, the 32.77 stands (for now). :)

  21. Posted

    Ron please respond to this:   IN an earlier post you said his performance was on videotape but in a recent post you say that his score came from activision and may have been a typo.    Which performance were you saying was on videotape?  The 32.04 or the 32.77?

     

    The 32.77 is on videotape. The 32.04 came directly from Activision. The 32.50 was only witnessed by myself, Brien King and Steve Knox at CGE last year. We didn't take a pic or videotape the performance.

  23. Posted

    I have Atari Revival Warlords and it isn't all that bad. Yes, it is clearly aimed directly at modern, younger gamers, but being an old fart, I think it's still fun. Why? I was a Warlords die-hard way back when... :)

  24. Posted

    Awesome! Todd is cleared, the truth is revealed, and all is well.

     

    By the way, will Todd's reattempt be filmed? If so will the film be available (or top secret)? Will there also be some impartial observers there to verify the score (you know, like innocent bystanders...err witnesses)? I know you said it would be at CGE, but you could do it in a closed room for all I know, I won't be able to make it.

     

    Finally let me say that 32.50 is one hell of a score, regardless of if he can beat it or not! I think it is safe to say the record is his, for a long while. Rock on.

     

     

    I'm glad this all got figured out. Thanks to everyone for their hard work in getting to the bottom of this.

     

    Stan

    :) :) :)

     

    I don't know if we'll have a video camera there or not, but I am going to have this done in full view of the gaming public. I am also going to ask Albert to come to the booth and watch so you will have a known, trusted, 3rd party perspective. :)

  25. Posted

    O.K., a couple of comments, then the meat of this posting... :)

     

    As a sidebar, for those of you who are not familiar with Todd, he appeared several times in Activisions, the Activision high score newsletter that was published from from the Fall 1981 to Fall 1983. The Spring 1983 (Vol. 6, pg. 5) issue contains a score of 32.74 for Barnstorming by Todd Rogers. I also have in my possession a letter from Jan Marsella, the Director of Customer Relations at Activision, dated 15 Feb 1986 showing a best time on Barnstorming of 32.74. However, in a letter from Denise L. Steele, Director of Marketing Communications at Activision, dated 3 Jul 1986, they, Activision, show Todd achieving a score on Barnstorming of 32.04. Yes, all of these are on Activision letterhead. It looks like they may have made a typo.

     

    After looking through the archives, I was unable to find any "solid" evidence (photo or videotape) to this score. So, without photographic or videotape evidence, and after speaking with Todd last night regarding all of the "happenings" on this forum and the fact I was unable to find in the TG archives the videotape or photographic evidence of the 32.04 score, I have decided to enact the Twin Galaxies Challenge Rule since two (2) of the challengers are "...a contender on the same game in question."

     

    Here is the rule if you wish to review the process for yourself:

     

    http://www.twingalaxies.com/Rules8.html

     

    What I have done is asked Todd to play in a public forum, CGE, to try and re-create his time of 32.04. If he cannot, his 32.04 will be removed from the Twin Galaxies scoreboard and replaced with 32.50, which he did score at last years CGE in front of 3 TG judges (myself, Steve Knox & Brien King) as well as the general public.

     

    I hope this helps. I know it's been painful, but I too want to know the truth. If Twin Galaxies has posted a score in error, then it MUST be fixed to preserve the integrity of the scoreboard.

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