Redb3ard

If anyone has scrap plastic that meets the following conditions, I would gladly reimburse you the few dollars that it would take to ship it to me. Please contact me privately for an address and to receive pre-payment. 1. The piece needs to be relatively flat. Ideally something out of the middle of a case. 2. One side (most probably the inside) should have been protected from UV enough that it is either the original color, or pretty damn close. And that side is obvious. If the exterior side is still unfaded enough that it's tough to tell, please mark the bad side in permanent marker. 3. The piece is otherwise unusable (other than for maybe some extreme modding like Beetle does). I can't promise that what I do with it will be non-destructive. 4. The piece is larger than a sliver. 2" x 2" or thereabouts oughtta be perfect, smaller on down to 1" x 1" or so might work however. Bigger is better in this case. 5. It belongs to any of the following Atari series: 400/800, XL, XE, ST. Of particular interest are the original beige, cream/brown, gray/offwhite (XE/ST). Of lesser importantance (but still wanted) would be the colored buttons of the XE and the like. Again, I'll gladly pay extra shipping, and something extra for your time. PS If anyone knows of a company or service that will test plastics for actual color (pantone is the preferred colorspace), please forward a link.

Curt, do you have those as paper docs, and could you make those available to the public somewhere? And you do have the other chips too, I assume, Pokey and Antic?

Those are all valid strategies for restoring vintage machines, and I encourage people to do what it takes to make them as they were. Still, it would be useful to know what the actual colors really are.

Nothing in particular that I want to disclose now. Mostly just wanting to know the colors as accurately as possible. Not necessarily wanting to paint anything, either. I figured if I could find out what the colors were, you guys would benefit from it also. Supposing that I do find the colors, I was considering working up a pdf that was a sort of unofficial style guide. Pantone colors, both for paint, powdercoat, and plastic, mechanical drawings showing the various kinds of vents, the texture of the plastics, what angles are commonly used, size and variations of logos, etc. If people are interested in this, I could use some help. If things ever go further with some ideas I have, this place will be the first to know.

Ok. One of the graphic designers at work tried to help match the colors to pantone (inside of a 1010 where it wasn't faded), but it's tough to do visually from plastic to a computer monitor. Might print out some of the close ones tomorrow, see if on paper that it's easier (million dollar cmyk printer), supposing that it's free for a few moments. Earlier, I just took the top shell of a 1050 floppy drive to Home Depot, was going to use the inside again. Their machine need a completely flat surface, and no matter how it was turned, it couldn't quite do it. I'd need to do a hatchet job on the thing, to be able to use the machine. Even then, it's only going to spit out the mix ratios for the base pigments that they use. The guy tried to help, suggested that we match it to his book... found some close ones. The Glidden Palette, 40YY 60/103 seems really close. I've just checked online, and I can't even find an example of it though, let alone a converter to another color system. If anyone has any suggestions, I'd certainly appreciate them.

I don't think that anyone is planning to produce it now. The ethernet card would be nice though... and for the record, I've always wanted to do a corvus network at home. Too bad I can't find the ISA card to get my Apple hooked up to the linux server.

Crazybonz measured the pin diameter as 1.1mm with digital calipers. I'm going to assume you had something less accurate, but still view your measurement as confirmation of his. Also, if you're correct about the pin length being 11mm, then his measurement of the depth of the plastic shroud being 7mm is clearly incorrect. I'm putting your measurement of 11mm down as correct for now. Really, there should only need be a few more measurements for this to be accurate. Placement of the pins on the pcb side should probably match the originals insofar as the "I" distance should be equal to the distance of the pins on the pcb to the pcb's edge. This means a new part would jut out over the edge of the pcb, similar to how a regular dsub connector does. Also, the unlettered plastic lock tabs shown in the diagram should match the placement and diameter of the attachment points on the original part (though I believe on the original they are just holes through which a nut and bolt are placed? Or is it riveted?). The corner radii of the trapezoid shield... if anything, new parts could overcompensate, have a smaller radius (at least for the male), and they'd still fit. I'm just not sure how anyone could measure it accurately anyway. Oh, and the bottom edge of the trapezoid, is there any reason why that couldn't be flush with the top of the pcb (which in this one regard would make it less like a proper dsub, rather than more) ? Doing so makes the part not quite as tall, which could be helpful. Say, if someone ever got it in their heads to make an SIO PCI card. Latest version, 6-18-07: sioport.pdf

I'd even be happy with a kit with the board and schematics and most if not all needed components(assuming any missing components were cheap, standard affair), I'm the kind of person who takes just as much pride and has just as much fun, if not more, building electronic kits. Which is why I've used just about every possible mod or upgrade plan on the net to upgrade my 1200XL and my 130XE before. Or the "kits" like the APE WARP+ 32-in-1 OS, The Pokey stereo board MetalGuy66 released, and the Rambo memory upgrade (further upgraded to 512K). Maybe you could offer it both ways; pre-assembled and complete with case, or just kit and you make your own case? it'd be fun to make my own custom XL look-alike case from 1/8" plywood and paint, etc. Or people with XE's could use a salvaged Mega ST or TT case for it. Possibly a XEGS case? But would special cards need to be made for it? Or were maybe expansions cards made for the Apple II industry standard and could be used in the 1090XL, maybe just needing software drivers and whatnot? Apple II cards were hardly industry standard. They weren't used in anything other than the Apple II and its clones, as far as I know. ISA or S-100 are the only standard expansion slots of that era that I know of, MCA and Nubus and whatnot came later. So then, what we are talking about is more than just making 1090XL units or selling kits, but would still need custom cards made for use with it and software to take advantage of the cards? I assumed that software and drivers would be needed, but I'd hoped that there were some "industry standard" cards that might be used right away, once a driver was made. Yes, you would have to make custom cards. But once you have the expansion box, it makes it a lot easier to do that. And the other big advantage is that you can have access to multiple cards at once. Think a nice 80-column card, a nice hard-drive/memory card drive, a printer card, a 1.44 floppy card,a 65816 processor and a cd-rom card. Maybe even a graphics card if the Parallel Bus Interface could handle such a thing. Five cards accessible all at once. Allan Shouldn't be any reason why you couldn't do a graphics card. All it needs is a VGA or DVI port, a framebuffer, and some software to put some pixels in that framebuffer.

Somehow I doubt there is much demand for a Corvus nic.

All true. It's a work in progress, of course. The diameter of the pins was supposedly 1.1mm from a friend, and another person here has replied that they are 1mm in diameter. The rest of the measurements are still up in the air. Not sure how much it matters though, I've yet to find a place that will do less than 50,000 parts at a time, and even at those quantities they are quite steep.

I'd even be happy with a kit with the board and schematics and most if not all needed components(assuming any missing components were cheap, standard affair), I'm the kind of person who takes just as much pride and has just as much fun, if not more, building electronic kits. Which is why I've used just about every possible mod or upgrade plan on the net to upgrade my 1200XL and my 130XE before. Or the "kits" like the APE WARP+ 32-in-1 OS, The Pokey stereo board MetalGuy66 released, and the Rambo memory upgrade (further upgraded to 512K). Maybe you could offer it both ways; pre-assembled and complete with case, or just kit and you make your own case? it'd be fun to make my own custom XL look-alike case from 1/8" plywood and paint, etc. Or people with XE's could use a salvaged Mega ST or TT case for it. Possibly a XEGS case? But would special cards need to be made for it? Or were maybe expansions cards made for the Apple II industry standard and could be used in the 1090XL, maybe just needing software drivers and whatnot? Apple II cards were hardly industry standard. They weren't used in anything other than the Apple II and its clones, as far as I know. ISA or S-100 are the only standard expansion slots of that era that I know of, MCA and Nubus and whatnot came later.

This issue has been discussed in earlier threads by IndusGT and Tezz, who found suitable paints and succesfully repainted the casings of their A8's and peripherals. For some general info you might want to check out the sticky thread, and after that take a close look at http://www.atariage.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=104577 and http://www.atariage.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=102938 I think you will find everything you need for getting your A8's casings into mint condition there. Discolored keycaps are a problem, though, as you obviously can't spraypaint them, well, not without losing the lettering on top. re-atari If I were worried about restoration. I was more concerned with getting accurate color measurements in cmyk or pantone.

I have a bunch of questions. If someone has an unboxed "mint" machine, should the plastic's color be unfaded/non-discolored in theory? It's UV light that does the damage right, so for accurate colors we'd need mint machines, no? Do any of you out there have such machines? Home Depot and other such stores have machines that can measure color accurately, for the purpose of matching paints (for painting homes/walls... unfortunately neither spray paint nor hobbyist paints are available). Do these machines just spit out mixtures that they need to make to match something, or do they give out pantone/cmyk/rgb colors? How many colors are we talking anyway? The XL has a cream (or so I'm told it was originally, mine looks more like a medium beige) and dark brown (silver too, but only as metallic trim). The ST (and XE) computers, as I remember them are a medium gray, but aren't the keycaps yet another color? Was the embossed/raised Atari logo in the plastic painted (I seem to remember blue, but I might be making that up)? What would it take to get accurate colors for these machines, and is anyone else willing to help do so? Most of my vintage machines are extremely discolored, and even those that might not be, I can no longer tell how bad they are.

Nice. Did you consider labeling the pins (at least 1 and 13)? -Larry I can, of course. Not so important for those I'm sending it to to get a quote. I also need to check the diameter of the pins somehow, since it looks like they may not be the same as db9/25.

Someone on irc://irc.eskimo.com/atari got out the calipers and took some measurements for me. If anyone would like to take a look and catch any mistakes, I'd appreciate it. Even those of us without precise measuring tools could catch gross errors. The "B" length would largely be determined by "A", since it would just be that plus whatever extra you need to add margin past hex nut holes. "A" itself should be determined by placing the holes wide enough that even if hex nuts are installed (and they wouldn't need to be) they won't block older style cables. "I" is probably going to be some standard setback for pcb mount dsubs, which if I remember is 0.59" inches. Other lengths not shown yet, include the length of the pins themselves. Are their ends flush with the plastic shroud? Did I understand the other guy's scribbled diagram correctly, that this depth (of the plastic shroud) if 7mm (which seems about right, if they're spaced on 3mm)? Does anyone have any objections if the plastic shroud is ditched for a crimped metal shield, like regular dsub connectors use? Or if the shield extends past the edge of the pcb, rather than being flush with it? Will a metal shield/shroud interfere with the normal operation of cables somehow (grounding things that shouldn't be) ? What about the "fingers" on the outside of an old cable, will those be a problem somehow? Any and all comments welcome. Especially harsh criticism. Also, on a similar note: Does anyone have a preference for female plugs? I've always liked the solder cup variety, rather than the crimp-type. sioport.pdf

Preliminary drawings for a new port. Missing the measurements, Urchlay said he'd have a go at a real one for me with calipers. I'd ppreciate any criticisms, once I have some numbers with it, I'd be submitting it to a few companies that said they'd give estimates. sioport.pdf Shamelessly copied from http://www.ecsconn.com/Catalog/CatalogPDF/...ght%20Angle.pdf of course, and done up in inkscape. My concept is to have the port extend past the pcb, with a metal shield like with a serial port, of course. The metal is thinner than the plastic shroud on the old plugs, and the port would be slightly shorter (especially if the can have it flush with the top of the pcb, unlike with a dsub port where it raises up about a 1/6th of an inch). Holes for hex nuts would be there, but could go unused. Urchlay thinks they might interfere with a regular cable, but they could of course be space widely to not interfere. On another note, if we were to get female plugs made, for making cables, do you guys prefer solder-cup style plugs, or crimp type plugs?

Dude... I expected something impressive, in an amateur sort of way. You know, just a notch above having the lcd duct-taped to the 600XL case or something. But this is absolutely awesome. I can't even figure out how you did the case, short of having some injection molds milled. It looks better than authentic, it looks like what an XL-styled laptop would look like, if we were in some weird parallel universe where Atari had made such a thing. I'm stunned. When can I expect my NeXTBook?

I speak only for myself, but I'd definitely appreciate having a diagram of the thing. I appreciate Rybags help, but I suspect that his measurements were only so accurate. I would expect (ignoring he staggering) the distance between the pins to be constant across both rows, and the same distance to seperate the two rows. It's somewhere around the ~0.143" he said to be sure, but the more accuracy the better.

Someone in #atari/newnet linked me to a site selling old stock. For my purposes, these might not be suitable... the plastic shield around the pins adds height that might not fit. I was thinking of a modern design, similar to a pcb-mount dsub connector. The pins (and shield) would jut out beyond the board. And, by using a crimped-on metal shield, it would be able to sit a sleight amount lower, and not be quite as tall. Besides just looking cool. I only want a few dozen myself, but if someone were to make a couple thousand of them, I was hoping there might be enough interest that we could pool some money and place an order. Hell, provided that we're talking hundreds of dollars, and not many thousands, I might just place the damn order myself anyway, and sell them piecemeal as people ask for them. We can't keep using old stock forever, it's going to run out someday.

Duh. I shouldn't do math in the morning.

Well, I won't take the keyboard then. Didn't think it would bother you, sorry. Christ, don't be so sensitive. Haha. It's yours, I gave it to ya. I have too many old junky computers as it is. But you're obligated to part it out the rest of the way, help other people restore theirs, if there's something they can use off of it.

Thanks. I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that the pins are centered on 1/8th inch. That's what your first measurement says, and the distance between the rows... even really close on the short row measurement... 1/8th would be 24/32. Wonder if 7/16ths is the length of a standard db25 pin... doesn't seem like it, remember the SIO seeming deeper. I'll draw something up in inkscape later, that looks more blueprintish, and let people complain that it's wrong, until we have a consensus. I was thinking of submitting it for a quote to places that make connectors, and see what kind of price/quantity they'd give us, for both male and female. (female as standard plugs ready to attach to cables, male as right-angle pcb mounted plugs). Would also be curious if anyone would want some, besides myself. Thanks again, rybags.

I'd like to know how far apart the pins are, center to center. Also, how deep they are from top of pin to plastic, and the shape of the trapezoid (height, width, angle of sides, and radius of the corners). If anyone has these measurements, or can make them, I'd appreciate it. I would do it myself, but Urchlay is apparently butchering my 600XL. You didn't tell me you were taking the keyboard, Urch.