Dav
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Posts posted by Dav
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Thanks to Mike and Dave for making this happen!!!
Actually you can thank Herbertsmart, if it wasn't for his pestering all these years I never would have gotten around to it. And Mike is doing all the work, I'm just getting out of his way. I don't have the time for arcade stuff any more.
I think I first announced the project on this forum. http://www.atariage.com/forums/topic/75150-my-exidy-crossbow-project/ I did a run of 7 or 8 kits took forever to sell them. I don't think I every did come up with a perfect solution to the dip problem though, I did add a method to turn games on and off.
Dave
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How rare are Cloak & Dagger machines? I know they're fairly uncommon because they were a conversion kit for much more popular games (Robotron, Defender, etc.), but I've been having absolutely no luck tracking one down. Besides my DECO Cassette system, C&D is the only arcade game I've ever wanted to own (my consolized Neo Geo MVS doesn't count).Does anyone know of someone with a C&D machine for sale or where I might look other than ebay? I've got a marquee, two sets of boards (one with Agent X silkscreened on it and one with C&D), and an operators manual, but sadly no machine...
Tempest
Rumor has it there were a dozen dedicated machines if that's what you are looking for, there have been a couple mentioned over the years. Supposedly the conversions are not rare but I don't think I've ever seen one in person.
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It was called Crush Roller where I come from.. and I hated that game
I found it very frustrating as a kid because even when you got good enough to finish a stage, there was always one little tiny corner piece or two that I'd miss (and of course if you just look quickly, everything looked painted in fine) and my kid eyes were no good in spotting where the heck was the spot I had to paint over. It wasnt only me since I remember spectators having to help out others where they needed to go by pointing at the screen. Also the enemies got smart too fast.. you run over them twice, and that's it. I couldn't run over them any more. And the music! The intro tune still sticks in my mind like an icepick.. ok I'm exagerating.. time actually has been kind on the game in my eyes and it's one I like to take for a whirl in Mame now and then. I've definitely gotten a lot better and I can see those missed little corners with no problem now 
That's funny, one of the few differences between CR and MT is the intro song is like 30% shorter, I guess for obvious reasons. The other weird thing is the screen is inverted. e.g if you plug a CR board into a make trax machine it will display upside down. The other differences i can remember where on the board, MT had a sync inverter circuit to output negative sync on one of the unused pins, and MT has a williams sticker to cover up the screen printed "crush roller" and stickers to go over the eprom labels.
It's also called Pac & Paint in some places. There are a bunch of other names for it too on bootleg boards. It's hard to believe such an obscure game would have 10 different bootlegs but I guess since it runs on basically a bootleg pacman board it was just easy to do.
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Those are GREAT! Love them all. Very cool. Any idea what to do with them? Maybe matte them and frame? Might be cool over a computer screen
I still have three 80's Chuck E Cheese coins (In Pizza we Trust) in my change jar. I think one day I will frame them for the basement. They are year specific (82, 83 and 84 I think is what I have).
Its funny how these things so utilitarian become interesting years later. I am sure I tried to use them in soda machines, phones, other arcades, etc. for years. Somehow these rattled around in my change for the past quarter century.
C
I still have a handfull in my old change box from high school too I think, I seem to remember they were the aladin's castle type.
This reminds me, I used to have a zaxxon and everytime I moved it it sounded like it had a million quarters in it. I finally junked the cab and broke open the base where they were stuck and it was all tokens. And not the usual tokens, they all had nekkid people on them.
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Ms. Pac-man's randonimity comes from the R register, which is updated by the processor itself. The R register increments for every instruction executed, and for certain instructions increments by two, and for other instructions it is incremented by 2 times BC.Suffice to say, if you phyiscally turn on the machine, insert a coin, and hit the start button within the same timeframe -- you could create a real, legitimate set of patterns for the entire game, since the R register would theoretically be at the same values at the same times.
No, there's no comparison between the randomness of ms pac and pac. Since the R register incremented every instruction you have to run the exact same code. With variations of clock speed I'm not sure that's possible even if you initialized ram to be identical and rigged up some kind of robot to move the joystick at exactly the same time every time.
They've been argueing that point over on twin galaxies for as long as i can remember.
I agree that slight variations in clock speed might exist across different machines. However, the scenario I describe above would indeed be possible if executed on one and only one machine. It is also possible, and much easier, to perform in an emulator. I have succeeded in doing it this way.
The machine needs to be reset from a known state, and the coin and start button triggers depressed at the exact same time. Since the R register value is determinisitc, so would be the outcome of the "randomization" functions, assuming all of the following game input remained the same.
This method has been used to cheat casinos using legitimate, hardware-based RNGs with high timer resolutions. [since the Z80's R register is only 8-bit, the resolution is tiny (only 256 possible states.)] Once the randomization algorithm is known, and the machine is determined to be in a known state (i.e. in a machine where values of displayed cards in a video poker machine directly correspond to the state of the RNG,) an auxilliary computer is then manually synchronized with the gaming machine. It emits a sequence of beeps that a human operator observes in order to synchronize themselves with the timing rythm. At the exact monent that a pre-determined beep count has passed, the human operator depresses the approriate "stop" button. It sounds like a poorly hatched theory, but has been executed successfully in the real world. The human mind/muscle connection and timing/perception capacities are far more accurate than you would imagine. The margin for error for a trained operatior is within nanoseconds. Obviously, the system will not work every time. It does, however, succeed frequently enough to lay out the foundation for a "new way" of creating deterministic Ms. Pac-man patterns, as well as it has to bilk Nevada gaming establishments out of a couple hundred thousand dollars.
[This phenomenon was exploited in primitive gaming machines. Modern gaming machines now incorporate more than one RNG. The timing resolutions have been greatly increased, and the player-observable-outputs/RNG coupling has been purposely obfuscated.]
To conclude and to clarify, my observations apply to any single machine that one has the ability to reset at will, and to a player that has the dilligence to practice executing starting trigger sequences that are synchrnonized with attract mode screen output. I have had a 33% success rate with this method, every third reset being able to start the first rack with the exact same ghost movements.
In order to make this work on a slot machine you only have to hit it right once and if you miss you still have the regular odds of making a return. I can definitely see that working. In order to do this in ms pac you have to do it right every time you push the stick and every time you release the stick or it's useless, you've lost your sync with the R register. That's what, 100 times a level? Multiply that number by how many levels before it gets hard enough patterns will help you. I don't like those odds quite so much.
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Cloak & Dagger and Beastie Feastie are two of my forgotten favorites.I have to confess to liking Beastie Feastie too. I like it better than pacman which is the board it runs on.
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I just purchased a child hood favorite of mine, Devestators, and eventually plan on using the machine when I accumulate enough to open an arcade. With this being said, the front coin slot door and the door below it are missing the locks. Can these locks be easily installed or should i look at buying brand new door/lock combos or am i screwed all around?They are easily replaced, and that's usually the way they are sold. I'd wait and buy a boxful when you need them so you make sure you get them all keyed alike.
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I wrote something to dump the instructions that I've been adding in. I thought I might as well get some feedback before I started shipping these. I tried to copy from the instruction card or flyer where I could find one. There's a limited amount of space obviously and you only have 10 seconds to read it so I have to keep it short. If any one has any corrections or missing instructions let me know; if not this will be the instructions that ship.
Thanks,
Dave
BURGER TIME BUTTON 1 PEPPER LET'S GET COOKIN'! DROP INGREDIENTS ON PLATE TO MAKE HAMBURGERS. YOU ARE OUT IF YOU TOUCH AN ENEMY. SPRINKLE PEPPER TO STOP ENEMIES. TAKE BONUS TO INCREASE YOUR SUPPLY OF PEPPER ============================= PETER PEPPER'S ICE CREAM FACTORY BUTTON 1 JUMP OR KICK ICE CREAM DOWN BUTTON 2 KICK ICE CREAM UP ============================= BUMP 'N' JUMP BUTTON 1 JUMP MOVE LEVER TO BUMP CARS OFF ROAD FOR POINTS. USE JUMP TO AVOID ATTACKING CARS, WATER AND OBSTACLES. JUMP TO LAND ON OPPONENT'S CARS WITH NO HARM TO YOUR OWN. YOU MUST BE TRAVELING 100MPH TO JUMP. ============================= ROOTIN' TOOTIN' BUTTON 1 TEMPORARY INVULNERABILITY ============================= CLUSTER BUSTER BUTTON 1 UP BUTTON 2 ANGLE OF DEFLECTION KEEP HITTING BALL OR IT WILL FALL THRU BOTTOM. USE UP BUTTON TO LIFT SCREEN. USE BOUNCER BUTTON TO CHANGE ANGLE OF BOUNCE. ============================= TORNADO BUTTON 1 SHOOT BUTTON 2 BOMB ============================= LOCK 'N' CHASE BUTTON 1 LOCK USE THE LEVER TO MOVE THE LUPIN THRU THE MAZE PICKING UP GOLD COINS. PUSH THE BUTTON TO CLOSE THE SHUTTERS BEHIND TO LOCK THEM UP. THERE ARE 2 MYSTERY ZONES WHERE BONUS IS AWARDED FOR TRAPPING. ============================= NIGHT STAR BUTTON 1 SHOOT BUILD THE SPACE STATION, NIGHT STAR CITY AND THE DEEP SPACE DOCK A BONUS SPACECRAFT TO COMPLETE EACH OF THEM. IF YOU RESCUE A SPACEMAN WHO FLOATS BY IN SPACE, YOU'LL TURN YOUR WEAPON INTO A LASER GUN ============================= SUPER ASTRO FIGHTER BUTTON 1 FIRE DESTROY ALL UFOS AND THE SPACE MASTER BEFORE YOUR FUEL RUNS OUT. WATCH OUT YOUR FUEL IS LIMITED AND THE SPACE MASTERS ATTACK IS DEADLY. ============================= SWEET HEART BUTTON 1 FREEZE DANCE A SQUARE AROUND THE DISCO CHARACTERS. PUSH BUTTON TO FREEZE RUFFIANS, ONLY A LIMITED NUMBER OF TIMES. ============================= TERRANEAN BUTTON 1 SHOOT BUTTON 2 LAUNCH/EXPLODE FLASH BOMB YOU ARE COMMANDED TO DEFEND TERRA FROM ALIEN ATTACK. ALLOW NO ALIEN RAIDER THROUGH TO SHATTER THE PEACH OF QUIETLY REVOLVING TERRA. ============================= FIGHTING ICE HOCKEY BUTTON 1 BUTTON 2 ============================= MISSION X BUTTON 1 BOMB OR SHOOT FLY IN LOW TO DANGER/ AND SUSPENSE ============================= ASTRO FANTASIA BUTTON 1 FIRE YOUR BATTLE IN THE ASTRO ZONE COMES TO AN EXCITING CLIMAX WHEN THE GIANT ASTROGEN APPEARS. YOU NEED 6 DIRECT HITS TO DESTROY IT AND YOUR FUEL IS RUNNING OUT. ============================= BOULDER DASH BUTTON 1 AND 2 EXPLODE ROCKFORD DIGS FEVERISHLY, AS BOULDERS CRASH DOWN ALL AROUND HIM, THROUGH 16 MYSTICAL CAVES AND FIVE LEVELS OF DIFFICULTY. ============================= TEST TAPE USE THE SERVICE SWITCH ON THE PCB TO ADVANCE TO THE NEXT TEST. DONGLE VERSION 1.00 WWW.WIDEL.COM ============================= LUCKY POKER BUTTON 1 RED BUTTON BUTTON 2 BLUE BUTTON ============================= FLYING BALL BUTTON 1 PUSH BUTTON 2 ANGLE OF DEFLECTION ============================= PRO GOLF BUTTON 1 SHOOT MOVE LEVER U OR D TO SELECT CLUB. MOVE LEVER R/L TO HOOK/SLICE. WATCH DISTANCE INDICATOR TO JUDGE POWER OF STROKE. IF YOU SHOOT OVER PAR YOU LOSE ONE GOLFER. ============================= PRO SOCCER BUTTON 1 LONG PASS/GOAL SHOT BUTTON 2 SHORT PASS OR CENTERING PASS ============================= PRO TENNIS BUTTON 1 ============================= PRO BOWLING BUTTON 1 BOWL MOVE LEVER L/R TO POSITION BOWLER. MOVE LEVER U/D TO CURVE OR HOOK THE BALL. WATCH SPEED METER ON LEFT. PUSH RED BUTTON TO BOWL. ============================= TREASURE ISLAND BUTTON 1 THROW ROCKS USE YOUR SKILL TO CLIMB TO THE PEAK OF A SINKING ISLAND. CHOOSE QUICKLY, COLLECTING TREASURES WHILE DODGING MONSTER EGGS. BREAK EGGS BEFORE THEY HATCH. ============================= ZEROIZE BUTTON 1 TURBO BUTTON 2 BRAKE ============================= HWY CHASE BUTTON 1 SHOOT BUTTON 2 ============================= -
I have 2 uprights and a cocktail. I really only wanted to save the upright brugertime, but this kit could save them all. THe cocktail is nice and the other is a kit into a tempest cabinet.If you need any help to test this, let me know. I would prefer to wait for a more finished project, but as long as it might be just an eprom swap, I can burn a chip.
If this can get done in time For CA extreme, I can take the game to the show (15min drive for me).
There will probably be an eprom swap to upgrade the data. I put in instructions for you to read while you wait for the load and I know I have some typo's and some I just didn't do. The ones I found instruction cards for I typed in but a lot of them I just left. And of course there's always the possibility that I missed a protection patch somewhere and will have to fix one of the games. And maybe i'll suddenly get a bunch of free time and I'll be able to port some games over, but I wouldnt' count on it. One of my favorite games, Eggs, like almost but not quite would run w/o much work. And I think the midway version of BTime is a little different than the Deco. Anyone know? All that stuff is on two 27c040 chips on the dongle. If you don't want to burn chips that's fine, I'll send out 1 update when the code is finalized. If for some reason you're just not happy with it you can get your money back. I'd recommend not waiting to get one as sometimes I lose interest in these projects and never do a second run if they don't sell well. Like there probably won't be a production run of the multi-exidy's.
I don't think I mentioned it before but a number of the games use 2 buttons. If your cab doesn't have 2 buttons populated you'll have to add one or not be able to play some of the games.
Someone told me the cocktails have a larger boards set. It's about 2 inches taller than the uprights. Have you noticed that?
I went to CA exetreme back around 2000, I wish I could go back sometime. Tempest, You might look for Dale Luck I believe he bought out Al's collection.
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Hi,im thinking of putting a bid in on this tabletop,i live close buy so pick uo is available,i asked him about the little haywire problem,here is his response.Thanks for your inquiry. Sometimes the machine will 'freeze' if it's knocked or hit, especially on the top of the unit. It certainly doesn't do every 5 minutes, and as I said in the past it's just a matter of turning the on and off. You can also completely lift the glass top lid which has a little micro switch underneath which, if memory serves me will also re-boot the unit. It's been a while since I last played the device, probably 4 years, but it fired up first go when I turned it on for the photos the list on Ebay and played fine. Yes the unit is available for pick up. Regards, Peter.Do you think it is a major fault,or one i can live with....thanks
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Space-Invaders-Arca...1QQcmdZViewItem
I don't know the exchange rate but around here a bootleg galaxian that didn't work very well would be $50-100 US. But if you don't see much in your area for sale I guess that might be reasonable. Most likely it is a minor issue that you can find by shaking the wires.
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Ms. Pac-man's randonimity comes from the R register, which is updated by the processor itself. The R register increments for every instruction executed, and for certain instructions increments by two, and for other instructions it is incremented by 2 times BC.Suffice to say, if you phyiscally turn on the machine, insert a coin, and hit the start button within the same timeframe -- you could create a real, legitimate set of patterns for the entire game, since the R register would theoretically be at the same values at the same times.
No, there's no comparison between the randomness of ms pac and pac. Since the R register incremented every instruction you have to run the exact same code. With variations of clock speed I'm not sure that's possible even if you initialized ram to be identical and rigged up some kind of robot to move the joystick at exactly the same time every time.
They've been argueing that point over on twin galaxies for as long as i can remember.
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Otoboke,After my code analasys, it looks like the Ms. Pac-man AI solution is really just the remains of a failed, better solution.
Having only two ghosts move randomly is a bit silly, since all of the ghosts always moved randomly during blue mode in the last game.
They actually wanted to make each ghost go to a random home corner! They failed to be able to get each ghost to "remember" its destination between frames. Instead, each ghost picks a new homecorner every single frame. Even the blue and orange! The end result is that the ghosts move around in "blue mode" instead of spreading out to random corners.
The blue and orange ghosts were patched incorrectly, though. So, after they call the randomized home corner selector -- the old pacman code overwrites the decision with the home corners from the original maze that isn't even used in the game.
(Note, home corners are defined as actual map cells to seek out, not directional areas.)
There are tables for each maze in the game of new home corners for the ghosts to pick from. Unfortuanetly, they were never maintained in the code, and don't match up with the mazes, since the programmers found out they couldn't finish what they started.
The random home corner solution would have been very elegant -- or, if necessary, having all of the ghosts move randomly during the first 5 seconds would be decent (although, again it looks really unintelligent and weird -- and is already implemented by "blue ghost" behavior.) -- but the hybrid solution, with orange and blue seeking their old home corners and the other ghosts just bobbibng around mindlessly is just a mistake.
I remembered the part about random home quadrants but I guess I never noticed it didn't work for 2 of them.
The blue ghost behavior isn't random, so it doesn't neccessarily mess up your pattern.
I agree the Ms Pac programmers had some good ideas but they weren't the programmers the original pacman programmers were. She's a lot more buggy.
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Absolutely amazing work. You should get in touch with Arcadeshop.com or Clay Cowgill and get this to market. There is really not much enforcement on copyright issues with Data East I would imagine and the fact you single-handedly saved, oh, I don't know, EVERY Data cab from being junked is AMAZING. No sense not to make a few bucks on your efforts.Outstanding. I know Tempest has a spare set of boards around (at least he did). I know he will be VERY happy to see your final product.
Great job, wish I still had a cab to test this in.
Cassidy
Thanks, I really like this kind of work. I wish I could make a living doing it but oh well. If the beta turns out well I'll probably turn it over to Mike Doyle like I did the 96 in 1 and the multi qbert. He a people person and does a nice job with tech support and sales. I don't know how many deco machines are left anymore, though. This may not be a big seller.
Tempest, I didn't get a message from you.
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I'm mentioning this here because I know there's a couple of guys interested in it. My wife took the kids to her parents for a week so I have some spare time and I'm going to assemble a few of my kits and do sort of a limited public beta test for $100. I didn't get around to adding nvram for hi score support and software dips. I've decided to just release what I have rather than mess around for another couple of years.
If you don't remember the kit replaces the dongle and the bios eprom. The new bios loads the cassette data from my new dongle instead of the tape. And since modern eproms can store a lot more data I went ahead and put pretty much all the available games on it. The only one I know I can't do is scrum try as the dongle for it is difficult for me to patch. All the other games have had the dongle protection patched out. I even decrypted highway chase and added it to MAME so I could use it. There are a couple of more games that I really wanted to add but Al Kossow has been hording the tapes for the last couple of years, but that's another story.
The way it works is it boots up to a menu, you select the game you want with start 1, and it loads in about 10 seconds. Then you hold the start buttons and press coin to get back to the menu. Did I mention it loads in about 10 seconds? because it loads in about 10 seconds
I believe it will only work on the more common smaller boardset. I haven't tested it on the older and I know the memory map is slightly different so I suspect it won't.
If this sounds like something you're interested in and you're not afraid of beta software get in touch with me as I will probably ship them in about a 7-10 days. I'm missing the header pins so I'll have to order some more, before I can finish the boards. You don't have to have an eprom programmer but it's not a bad idea if you want to get in this early. With this much patched software there's bound to be a bug or two.
Thanks,
I'm including an actual pic as the mame screen shots have completely the wrong colors compared to real hardware, although this pic isn't much better. The actual colors are the same blue and pink on the original bios.
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Speaking of holds there are some places on the board where normal AI doesn't apply. I call them slides because when I was controlling the red ghost in one of my game hacks when you hit one you would slide to the other side of it. Basically once a monster gets in one of these area's they can't change direction(unless they're blue) I modified the color prom and took this pic. It shows some of the screen looks like it's the same color but it's actually not. These colors control ghost movement. The red overrides the AI, the pink causes him to move slower.
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I didn't see anyone cover why Blinky sometimes will chase you even when in scatter mode. (at least in more specific detail based on code analysis).Regarding Blinky chasing you while in scatter mode: it depends on the number of dots left on the board. On the Cherry Level, I think it's something like 16 (I forget the exact number) dots that is the trigger; once there are that many dots left on the board Blinky not only chases you in scatter mode (except the initial 7 seconds disperse mode - like if you die and you start your next life), but he also becomes faster than you (when *not* eating dots). As the game progresses, level by level the number of dots left on the screen needed to trigger this event increases all the way to the 9th key.
Bob
The difficulty table looks like this. 796 defb 03 01 01 00 02 00 ;0 defb 04 01 02 01 03 00 ;1______ 7a2 defb 04 01 03 02 04 01 ;2 defb 04 02 03 02 05 01 7ae defb 05 00 03 02 06 02 ;4______ defb 05 01 03 03 03 02 defb 05 02 03 03 06 02 ;6 defb 05 02 03 03 06 02 defb 05 00 03 04 07 02 ;8______ defb 05 01 03 04 03 02 defb 05 02 03 04 06 02 ;a defb 05 02 03 05 07 02 defb 05 00 03 05 07 02 ;c______ defb 05 02 03 05 05 02 defb 05 01 03 06 07 02 ;e defb 05 02 03 06 07 02 defb 05 02 03 06 08 02 ;10_____ defb 05 02 03 06 07 02 defb 05 02 03 07 08 02 ;12 defb 05 02 03 07 08 02 defb 06 02 03 07 08 02 ;14 Each row represents a level, each column is a type of difficulty. The 4th column is the red shift or red point. It's a lookup into another table. Note the level is the difficulty levle which may not be the actual level if the difficulty solder pad is on. ;4th value 0 to 7 084f 14 0a ;0 0851 1e 0f ;1 0853 28 14 ;2 0855 32 19 0857 3c 1e 0859 50 28 ;5 085b 64 32 085d 78 3c ;7 085f 8c 46 ;8 This is a table of number of dots left. The first column controls the red AI change, the second column controls the red speed. This is from mspac, pac is probably similar. Interestingly pacplus has 1 more column in the difficulty table.
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Why can you sometimes pass thru the ghosts when their eyes are changing directly? Deliberate or a bug?What!?!? No love for Jr. Pac-man?
The collision detection works by keeping track of everyone's position in a grid. The grid squares are 8x8 pixels. Think of them like the squares on a side walk. If you walk directly at someone and they step off theirs onto yours at the same time as you step off yours and on to theirs, you are never on the same square at the same time. In the real world this would be difficult to do accidentally but with computers things don't happen in an infinite number of infinetly small time slices, there's only 30 or 60 time slices a second so it's easier than you would think.
I'm not a fan of the JR. although I did at one time make a hi score kit that kept track of the top ten names so I'm not completely unfamiliar with it. It's kind of like ms pac in that it's the pacman code with a bunch of patches on top. The board was modified to remove the color ram and reuse it for a larger screen.
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That is very interesting! So, there is are no more "waves" of attack in Ms. Pacman? The ghosts are just constantly attacking?I've never really played Ms. Pac-man. I don't have a taste for it. The fact that the chase logic involves randomness in any way completely destroys the game for me. The magic of the original game was that the AI was completely deterministic. The action of the AI was completely based on player action. That's the only way to introduce a learning curve into a game. Once you introduce randonimity, you destroy the involvement of skill, memorization, and instinct. They're all replaced with luck. I assumed Ms. Pac-man was mostly random, and that's why I never played it. If it's only 7 seconds -- eh, that's not so bad.
Dav, do you have anything definitive to say about the Ms. Pac-man AI? Moreover, do you know what was changed between releases of the original Pacman when it was rumored that "Midway changed the ghost "patterns" to stop players from using their own established patterns?" Or, is that the "Pacman Harder" variant that you are talking about?
Most people like MsPac because the patterns don't work. I think from what I've been told by the really good ms pac players what they do is use small patterns that they can use when they see a certain situation. So they will tell you they don't have patterns but in fact they have a whole bunch of small patterns and they have to recognize when to apply that pattern. Most of the same behavior you see in Pac occurs in Ms Pac, it's just that long patterns are not possible. The disperse mode was when they went back to their home quadrant. There's a patch there, I was thinking it randomized it, but it might have removed it.
I can't really say anything definitive w/o looking at code and I just don't have the time right now. Maybe next week.
The harder version is the one that was released later to stop people from using the patterns. All it really did was force players to come up with new patters which bought a little time for the operators I guess.
A cool thing about the names is the pucman boards came with a solder pad to change them. There were 2 sets of names. And I believe there were even more names in the roms that couldn't be accessed. Micky,Macky Mucky are the names that come to mind but I'd have to check.
Midway didn't have the name option.
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Dav,
You did Ms. Pacman as well? What did they do to the ghost logic, exactly?
Are they still using the same algorithm to get a direction based on a source and destination grid point? Where exactly does the randomness come into play?
What about the "personalities"? How much different are they from the original Pacman?
I did. I seem to remember the randomizing element was to randomize their home quadrant. There may be more too. There's a dissassembly on the net that has some notes in it. If you look though it at the ai part any jumps/calls to 8000-9800 is stuff that got changed. Ms pac is pacman with some jumps overlayed on top of the pacman code. I'll try and look for my notes on it.
I did a little bit on pac plus. They have added a little section of a few seconds of random behavior to the cycle of behaviors. It's a complete recompile so it's a little harder to figure out, and not as interesting as it's too hard for me.
Also I did the pacman harder set that namco put out. Fortunetly I put that in pacman.c in the mame driver so I don't have to worry about losing that one
Pacmod Harder compared to Pacman
pacmanh.5E
erase tiles $25:"." $28-$2e:"NAMCO" $5c:copyright C
program code
pacman/pacmod
0843: 14 0F Table of when ghosts come out of house.
0844: 1E 14
0845: 46 37
0846: 00 04 pink, level 1
0847: 1E 18 blue
0848: 3C 34 orange
0849: 00 02 level 2
084A: 00 06
084B: 32 28
084c: 00 00 level 3
084D: 00 04
084E: 00 08
0FFF: 36 54 checksum
2795: 29 00 pink ghost ai, points target to 2 tiles in front of pac instead of 4.
281F: 40 24 orange ghost ai, change close/far breakpoint from $40 to $24.
2FFF: 4C 91 checksum
37F8,3d28,3d43: change 1980 to 1981
Notice the harder upgrade was 2 roms only. 6e,6h. The others are from a newer set.
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Dav,
I wish I'd known you'd disassembled all of it! I might have just wasted a ton of time. It seemed like from the last post about the blue ghost in this thread that there was at least still some confusion about the exact math and logic taking place.
Anyway, yes, I did get around to the blue time -- today, actually. I found the same thing -- it reads anywhere from 0000 to 1FFF in the ROM. Very strange.
I assume that if you got the wandering ghost path routine analyized that you got the best-direction function analyzed, too.
Did you find the AI for the attract mode demo Pacman? I found that today, as well. He is simply headed towards the destination point that is directly opposite the midpoint between the pink ghost and pacman. The demo seemed pre-recorded to me. It just goes to show how something simple can create the illusion of intelligence.
Breakthrough!
I've just disassembled and completely documented the entirety of the ghost AI.
It's incredibly simple, guys!
I'll post a link to the website I'm preparing as soon as it is ready.
I've dissassembled them all before years ago. I don't know if I kept it around. Yes it is extemely simple compared to how complex the results seem. I'll be interested in seeing your webpage. If you haven't gotten around to doing the blue time it's just a psuedo random number generator using the program code to generate random bits, I always thought that was pretty neat.
No, I never did the demo movement. I assumed it was random like the blue time. that explains some things
I've dissassembled it but I didn't neccessarily keep it. I usually work on scraps of paper when I'm working on something like the 2 player simultaneous mods I've done. Sometimes I'll type stuff into my dissassembly but not too often. I've been through the code enough times in the last 8 years I just know what most of it does.
The cool thing about the blue time is it random but it repeats every time. Much easier for tracking down bugs in development than in e.g. ms pacman where they use the R register a lot.
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Breakthrough!
I've just disassembled and completely documented the entirety of the ghost AI.
It's incredibly simple, guys!
I'll post a link to the website I'm preparing as soon as it is ready.
I've dissassembled them all before years ago. I don't know if I kept it around. Yes it is extemely simple compared to how complex the results seem. I'll be interested in seeing your webpage. If you haven't gotten around to doing the blue time it's just a psuedo random number generator using the program code to generate random bits, I always thought that was pretty neat.
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I found some comfirmation in the mame source about explorer. It lists it as missing a rom dump for the add on board. I have no idea what it looks like. Judging by the function I would think it would have to plug into the cpu socket. The one for Treasure Island is called DE-0091xx I would guess that's probably what you need to get explorer working.
Sorry to bump an old topic, but I was looking through my DECO tapes and I came across this in my Explorer box:
It looks like a diagram for an expansion board. Maybe the MAME team can use this to figure out how it works? It might also explain what that mysterious fourth slot in the DECO cabinet is for. Too bad my system didn't come with one...
Tempest
Cool, that may not help the experts but it's helped me figure things out. The rom board plugs into the cage so that the cpu has full access to it from the bus. It's obvious in retrospect. It won't help emulate it w/o the rom images, but at least I know what to look for now. I don't ever remember seeing one on any of the boards I've seen, but then I wasn't looking for one specifically.
BTW I did finally run off some PCB's to do some more kits. No idea when I will get to it though.
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Excuse my ignorance, but what game is this? I see four paddle controllers so I assume it's some sort of PONG-style game, but I've never seen one of these before (at least not that I can remember).
Thanks!
..Al
It's one of the many pong "bootlegs" I had one a lot like that except the base was square. Mine was by Mirco. They weren't actually bootlegs because you can't copyright a circuit design, and there were no roms.
There's a link to mine.
http://www.klov.com/game_detail.php?letter...mp;game_id=7304
Thanks for the additional information. It's too bad the board is missing from this one.
..Al
Yeah, that is too bad. I have a couple of extra boards for the mirco machines I had but they had the molex connectors. I'm not sure which ones had the edgeboard connector like that.
I picked up one of mine for $10 and the other one a buddy of mine found that someone was throwing out. Both of them worked when I plugged them in. I think I got $100-$150 for them at the auction with very little work on them. You could probably find a board for it eventually if you can figure out who made it.
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Excuse my ignorance, but what game is this? I see four paddle controllers so I assume it's some sort of PONG-style game, but I've never seen one of these before (at least not that I can remember).
Thanks!
..Al
It's one of the many pong "bootlegs" I had one a lot like that except the base was square. Mine was by Mirco. They weren't actually bootlegs because you can't copyright a circuit design, and there were no roms.
There's a link to mine.
http://www.klov.com/game_detail.php?letter...mp;game_id=7304
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Cleaning out my basement
in Auction Central
Posted
Cleaning out my basement. Posting stuff on EBAY in lots. If you are in Kansas City you can pickup and avoid the shipping.
VIC-20,2600,Colecovision,Adam,NES a lot of it has boxes and instructions.
Thanks
Dave
eBay Seller: Davark![1?ff3=10&pub=5574883395&toolid=10001&campid=5336500554&customid=&mpt=[CACHEBUSTER]](https://atariage.com/forums/applications/core/interface/imageproxy/imageproxy.php?img=http://rover.ebay.com/roverimp/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?ff3=10%26pub=5574883395%26toolid=10001%26campid=5336500554%26customid=%26mpt=%5BCACHEBUSTER%5D&key=bf37f33c62e27253e3a09b46d5e42f402d4ea673246b2fb05ecb7900a2f59884)