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Do you know if there were marquees for those games? I would love to see what one looked like. I have seen the PM Plus one, but never even heard of the others. Thats an amazing amount of work for you guys. I am always amazed by the work "the pros" put into this hobby (I just hack stuff and make it work again; most of the time!). Amazing, and thanks. C 867120[/snapback] Here's a pic of my jumpshot. As you can see mine was a mspac instead of a pac. It had full vinyl sideart with hideous black, white, and red horizontal stripes and the bezel had matching stripes. The front was painted black. You can see the jumpshot control panel and marquee. I have some pics of what it origianlly looked like but they aren't digital. The color on my sideart is really nice since it's been covered since 1985. Shoot the bull was the same I think. horizontal stipes on the side art. I had pics of the marquee and control panel but I can't find them now. KLOV has a pic of the marquee. http://www.klov.com/game_detail.php?letter=S&game_id=9528 BTW Here's Clays page on how he cracked Pac Plus I did mine completely differently. http://www.multigame.com/pacplus.html

There are 3 Midway Authorized enhancement kits. Pacman Plus, Shoot the Bull and Jumpshot. What you probably have is pacman plus. They should contain the epoxy glob containing the cpu and decryption circuits, 4 encrypted program roms, 2 graphics roms and 2 smaller color proms. Pacman plus was more than just a pacman hack. It was a complete recompile with a lot of new features. They aren't worth much now as they've been decrypted and will run without the glob. Clay decrypted Pacman Plus and I decrypted the other 2. Some trivia, when I was looking throught the roms I found a name, later I was able to track the guy down as being the referee in one of the nba jam games. I haven't been able to find out if he wrote pacman plus or did the hardware or what.

The second hack you mentioned is the hardware hack. It's harder to do than just burning a new eprom and the players don't like it as it's much harder to play, so you don't see that much anymore. All it really did was over clock the interupts so the machine played twice as fast. The hardware hack was recently emulated in mame if anyone has never seen it.

It's different on the anniversary boards. It's 141. On a real board it's starts to get flaky around 131 and might crash or play upside down, but it will always crash at 141 if you make it that far.

Yes, the energizer change was lame. But also they cranked the difficulty way up as well. With ms pac you could walk up and play a couple of levels even if you didn't know what you were doing. Especially with the speedup. Those 2 changes combined to make most people feel the game was too hard. I think it was like super zaxxon, they listened to the operators complaints that the average game length was too long so they way overcompensated for the sequel.

Yes, but you clear the boards much faster, so you may still get off the machine quicker than you would have before. That's why operators liked it too.

Ms pac plus was a bootleg enhancement for pacman boards. It was an auxillary board similar to the real ms pacman. I have seen one briefly in person. I'm trying to get the guy who has it to loan it to me for dumping as the dump in mame is a fake. It's one of the few pac hardware games still MIA. The other game still MIA is EEEK! Which I've paid $500 for and have yet to receive after 6 months.

There are some other unused images, though. -Bry 854278[/snapback] Such as? Tempest 854316[/snapback] The Namco logo is in the graphics roms on some versions. I'm pretty sure the explosion sprite is unused as well. Ms Pac has the key from pacman still in the graphics tiles, but not in the sprites.

Ms pac is more like level 131 for the first of many bugs that can crash it. It's related to the code to draw the tunnel slowdowns.

Yes, I'm real busy right now or I'd post more on my favorite subject

blue's ai 27cb ed4b0a4d ld bc,(#4d0a) red ghost position 27cf ed5b394d ld de,(#4d39) pac postion 27d3 2a1c4d ld hl,(#4d1c) pac offset 27d6 29 add hl,hl 27d7 19 add hl,de hl= 2hl+de= 2 spaces in front of pacman 27d8 7d ld a,l 27d9 87 add a,a 27da 91 sub c 27db 6f ld l,a 27dc 7c ld a,h 27dd 87 add a,a 27de 90 sub b 27df 67 ld h,a hl=hl+ hl-red ghost. 27e0 eb ex de,hl 27e1 2a0e4d ld hl,(#4d0e) 27e4 3a2e4d ld a,(#4d2e) 27e7 cd6629 call #2966 get best direction given de as destination. 27ea 22224d ld (#4d22),hl blue offset 27ed 322e4d ld (#4d2e),a blue direction 27f0 c9 ret You can see why it's confusing. THe inputs are the red ghost x,y coordinates and 2 spaces in front of pacman.

I'll buy that, but I would be surprised if ALL of them are synchronous. Amazingly, the schematic for Fonz is online. I looked very briefly at it, and I can't tell if it's totally synchronous, but it does appear that there are numerous analog components on the board to adjust the gameplay characteristics, which would also require simulation. True, but Z80 machine language is a specification, not a collection of logic gates. Emulators emulate the machine language specification, not the gates in the CPU. Simulators simulate a collection of logic gates, among other things. But I digress. While I don't believe that it is semantically correct to call the simulation of these old games emulation, I will concede that people are going to continue to call it whatever they want, correct or not. If enough people call simulation emulation, the lexicon will change and it *will* be correct to call it emulation. This is all getting too philosophical... 843436[/snapback] The sound obviously is analog, but that's no different than a lot of cpu games that are in mame, and that can be handled with little overhead using samples and produce an accurate result. Doing it correctly will obviously be more of a hit as people are finding out in mame now with the recent migrations from samples to circuit simulation. A lot of the cirrcuits in these games are common to other games, I would argue that's a sort of specification, granted you don't know what it is But there's a lot of undocumented z80 opcodes too. The other day I noticed some Mame Devs arguing over what exactly a z80 opcode does and in what order, after 7 years you'd think they'd have that nailed down. I don't want to argue semantics either. I'm just saying death race on your PC is coming, It just needs someone who really knows their stuff, PC programming and EE both. My native PC language is VB so my little tank program is a little slow even with just the sync and mine cirucits. but if it was in C, and on a fast computer it could work. Especially if they picked a standared res game instead of 450x900 or whatever tank was. Personally I don't care that much about emulation, but I would like to see them done in cpld's on a jamma board.

impossible? As in emulate? no, see below. Emulation and simulation are similar terms but are not the same thing. the 6507 is not built from discrete components, nor is the ROM that runs on the 6507. Emulation vs. simulation is just a matter of semantics. Emulation is running of software on a platform that the software was not intended for, accepting the same input and producing the same results. Emulation of a CPU can be 100% accurate. Simulation is reproducing the effects of some real process by mathematical modeling it with a program. Simulation can never be 100% accurate. Therefore the 650x core is the emulation, and the translation of those results to the interfaced devices (TIA, RIOT, etc) is simulation. On games like Fonz there is no program to run and no processor to run it on, so it's a simulation. 839053[/snapback] You're making this a lot more difficult than it needs to be. Sure it's impossible to simulate some random circuit in real time. But these games are clocked like any other game. So we only care about what happens on the clock changes, the majority of the time we don't care. Most of the chips can be reduced to simple logic statements. For example drawing the mines in tank breaks down into a line of code using values from the sync chain for input. There's some additional code to limit the minefield to the center of the screen but nothing complex. Mines = (Not (V4 Xor V2) Xor (H4 Xor H2) And (V8 And H8) ) (A while back I wrote a simulator for tank, just doing the mine circuit. Mostly it was just so I could understand how Atari's double resolution worked, once I saw the pixels being drawn on the screen it made sense.) There's no reason it wouldn't be as accurate as anything else in mame which as you mentioned is half simulation anyway. If you look at the original 6 simple games mame emulated 7 years ago most of them still aren't perfect. A cpu is a collection of logic gates just like a tank board. The difference is I can see the gates on my board so it should be easier to emulate correctly than the gates packaged inside a z80.

I would say probably your Xbox is just too slow. You can't judge how hard the emulation is soley on how old a game is. Some of the oldest games will take the most cpu power when they are emulated. On my computer outrun runs at twice the speed of paperboy when I unthrottle them. If I had to guess why it would be the fact paperboy uses a medium res montitor and therefore has more detailed graphics.

Unfortunately that's one of the games with no CPU so it is much more difficult to emulate. Hopefully within the next few years we'll start to see some emulation of these games. It's probably more likely that we'll see some hardware emulation on a jamma board first as cpu speed is going to be a problem for a while. 10 gig is a number that's been suggested but that seems a little pessimistic to me.

Not exactly available but they are at least out of the closet and preserved for future generations to not be able to see. http://www.atarigames.com/

Um, I know memory was getting cheaper at the time, but 192K was way out of range for that era. I call shenanigans. Nvram doesn't work so good in a console either, I'm also calling shenanigans. Although I have an idea how to avoid the problems and I'm working on adding 2k of nvram to the CV.

My guess is an MSX cart adapter.

I don't blame you there, H4xx0ring 2600 suxxors. I'm commited to my colecovision project and I've got a lot of code to write. If in a few months I'm caught up and nobody else is on it I'll look at it. The good news is I've already got a menu system, scrolls vertically with 12 char x iirc 13 rows. It doesn't input ascii but it's only a look up table away from ascii. Like I said though, it may be a while before I can commit any time to this.

I could have done the original design for $25, about what it would cost to build yourself. Buying the parts in volume saves enough to pay for the labor. I haven't looked at this usb stuff yet though.

I'm thinking about running off a batch. I'll have to wait and see what he comes up with for the final design.

a0 from the vcs still needs to go into the cpld so you can tell the difference between 1ff8 and 1ff9 right? or am I missing something? I haven't looked at your design so this might be a silly question.

Ok you lost me here. You are still bridging a0,a1,a2? If you drop the bridge for a3-a6 you still want inputs, so that frees up 4 pins right?

I haven't really looked at what your doing closely but, it kind of looks like you have the full 32k of ram available? I can't imagine anyone needing more than 2k. btw, I think they've extended the 3f banking in some of the new dev carts to more than 2 bits. not sure if anyone's using it though. I agree though, going to surface mount is a good solution.

Yep, opened right up. Didn't actually try to figure anything out though.