hahaaaa :-) Indeed, but still, this is SOOOO much closer to what I was talking about. Did you see in that thread what others said was possible vs. my mock ups? The difference was quite a gulf. This version does not have that gulf. Heck, so many elements look better than my mockups now. Sloping girders and barrels If I took screenshots of Joes kong and posted them back in time, I'd love to see what was said :-)