wood_jl

Well, it obviously cost more to produce. The 8-bit flash cart is programmed in the computer, which can be done because it's a COMPUTER and obviously programmable so it can flash the cartridge. There's no need for the expense (there you go) of the USB connectivity. Granted the 5200 cost more, but it's easier to use. Building an 8-bit flash cart of your very own assembly (haven't done yet) appears to be something of an involved chore. But it's cheaper! Take your pick.

Ha ha ha! Priceless comment!! What kind of alliances will form when it intersects with the Mac vs PC arguement that was threatening? I'd like to think Atari and PC (since that's what I use) vs. Mac and Commodore but more people used the Commodore like more people use PC, so I guess it should be Commodore and PC vs Atari and Mac. I guess I'm going to have to cry about that one. Does "more people use it" automatically make it better? More tears. One of the most fascinating things about finding Atari Age (for this relative newcomer) was observing that this highly-opinionated, juvenille arguement still flames in the minds of some. I remember devoting untold hours to it on the BBS's....in the mid-80s when I was 15. Hell, it almost makes me feel young again to see it!!! If only some vendor could turn this (Atari vs. Commodore) passion into dollars.....they'd be rich. I guess that's not possible since flame wars only persist by virtue of the fact that they're FREE!!!

Thanks, man, for the link. I love reading about things back in the heyday. If only hindsight could be bottled up and sold in the past!

I did do a search and found some years-old threads on this, but they were not definitive in answering this. From what I gathered, the Sega Master system controllers will work on a 2600, or a 7800, but: (1) Being a computer, I am wondering if there are other things on some of the pins on the 800/XE that may be (detrimentally) bridged when you press the "wrong" button, or are the pinouts (all of them) identical between the 2600 (7800?) and the 800/XE?? (2) It seemed to talk about Master System controllers, but are Genesis controllers the same (at least the 3-button)? (3) Would a Genesis 6-button controller potentially introduce hazards over the 3-button? All of those added buttons must make additional connections, no? (4) Would Genesis cordless controllers work on 800/XE then? This would require a couple of joystick extensions since the infared transceiver is designed to plug into the front of the Genesis - with the ports at a fixed-distance apart. Has this been tried? (5) It was said the Sega (unclear which one) controller would damage an ST!! Is this correct? What is different about the ST joystick port? (6) Slightly different topic, so getting an ST mouse to work like an 8-bit trak-ball doesn't work, then? Is there any way to use a mouse (of any kind then) as an Atari trak-ball? (Other than Missile Command on A800win) Thanks; my apologies for the thousandth time on this one but I'm afraid to try since there's no 8-bit repairman around anymore and the answers were not crystal clear.

Holy cow.... Someone a few messages ago was hoping this wouldn't turn into an Atari 800 vs Commodore 64 thread, but it looks like it may turn into a Mac vs PC thread!! Heh heh heh. Interesting how the Mac has changed over the years, though.... From stuff like SCSI, NuBus slots, Motorola processors, and 1-button mouse to IDE, PCI slots, Intel processors, and mult-button PC mouse. Is this an indication of anything?

Indeed. Fortunately, the Atari never cheapened to the point of aluminized cardboard for RF shielding like Commodore. I'm astonished that Tramiel didn't do that to the XE line (or ST for that matter) when he got to Atari. Interesting. How do you mean? What was the 6502 designed for, then? I thought it was a copy of the 6800. What was the 6800 (and/or 6502) then designed for? Why would the Z80 be for home computers and not the 6502?

Since the 130XE (65XE too??) is pretty darned good ("S-video" like the old 800) it should be mentioned since you can likely buy a used 130XE for less than the cost of having someone else fix your XL's video (unless you're an electronics man yourself).

You might want to consider finding a new notebook that has the drivers available to "downgrade" to XP. I picked up a new "HP DV6810us" (Turion 64 TL60 AMD cpu) over the summer for $600. It came with Vista, but before I bought, I surveyed what was available and then Googled them all to read about installing XP. Of course, the difficulty lies in obtaining the many drivers (starting with the chipset) for XP. On the HP forum there were a few threads about doing this, with links to the drivers. It was a little bit of work, so you have to at least have a little experience in dinking around with Windows installations and drivers. But it worked! There were lots of drivers - stuff like the built-in Wireless chipset, etc. The strangest part of the process was the firewire port wouldn't work with XP until I flashed the BIOS back to the previous version (from what shipped) and voila! The standard 3 Gigs of RAM is plenty for XP. Now it works just as well as if it shipped with XP. Make sure you burn the Visa "recovery" discs first, so you can return to Vista (heaven forbid) if you need to. I don't think there's a whole lot of difference in notebooks these days. I've had really good luck with Toshiba and HP, and since HP was the cheapest (at this particular sale) I went with it. Not sure I'd go with an Acer just yet, even though I think I saw evidence of others downgrading them to XP. Another nice thing (if you can say it) about XP is the older version of Norton GHOST runs on XP but not Vista. The newer versions of Ghost are some other program (Symantec bought them) and it seems too bloated and complicated for me. Ghost 2003 is the version I've been using for years, so after you get your XP set up just Ghost it to DVDs (and USB hard drive) and you'll never worry about Windows problems again....just re-image it back to when it was fantastic and fresh-installed. Oh well, that's how I roll...

I was living in Laramie, Wyoming when I posted this original message. In a relatively unpopulated area like that, there were NO decent used TVs. If "character" means shoddy sound, no S-video, and a round fishbowl screen......if those things do it for you, then knock yourself out. I don't know how this enhances the experience of a classic console. Personally, I love CRTs but I demand a new, flat, vibrant picture with S-video whenever I can get it, and composite at the least. I fail to see how these qualities could possibly diminsh classic gaming. When I game with the old 130XE on S-video, it's like having a 27" Commodore 1702 monitor. Even 80 column text is sharp. If grainy RF input was acceptable, I might have been able to haul someone's garbage home, maybe from a Goodwill store. Plus, I hardly think $260 is a lot of money to spend on a brand new television set today. If it was such a big amount to me, I wouldn't be wasting money on gaming to begin with.....I'd be buying food and trying to establish a savings account. Maybe try that criticism on people who spend 10 or 20 times that amount on a television yet can't pay their credit cards and cell phone bills. There's a lot of those people in the world.

I'm going to have to second this. I've been beating on JVC VCRs for 15 (or so) years and never had a failure.

I'd like a new 130XE. I'd like the 32-in-1 Warp OS. I'd like 320K. I'd like the "Metalguy 130XE treatment" where he "de-crapifies" it by removing as much Tramiel influence as possible. (I read an old post where he detailed his tune up). Pretty standard stuff really. No Supervideo or dual-Pokey. No drives or HD since SIO2PC/APE makes that all unnecessary to ME. Would have said USB SIO2PC and 8megabit carts but just got them! Also, a couple spares of all the aforementioned equipment in case something breaks and I outlive the people I'd need to repair it. Also, a nice little Honda generator and a huge underground fuel tank. All of this in an underground bunker so I can still play, in in case of war. Maybe for Christmas.

I thought I was assembling a collection until I saw yours. Most of my stuff is in Rubbermaid storage bins.....convenient for setting them on the curb on garbage day after seeing your setup <grin>. I am humbled.

Thanks, you guys are VERY helpful. JW

I finally ordered and received my USB SIO2PC from Atarimax and I am impressed. Been gaming all day using the old moves, until I can't play a few on the 130XE because I need the TRANSLATOR DISC! I've Googled for 20 minutes looking for this in a download.....no dice. I searched THIS SITE before asking this.....found old messages (2001) from someone requesting what I am here....but the link is too old and the page is gone. NEW REQUEST: Can anybody point me to an ATR of the Translator Disc? Thanks so much for any help provided. Can't believe how cool the USB SIO2PC is. Also got some 8-megabit carts but don't know what to do with them yet....still having fun with SIO2PC itself. JW

Indeed. Way to demonstrate maturity and sophistication, mycon.

I have also noticed (as has a friend) that RAMPART - the Game Boy Color version - will play, but the sound is all messed up. There's a terrible scratchy "squeal" going the entire time the game is on, so loud you can't use it. The sound is the best part to Rampart!!! Anybody else noticed this? Bummer, since I love Rampart!!!!

oops. Sorry. @moycon - "Pot calling the kettle black" is what it means. Look it up. It's a simple reference to most people who are not on pot. My apologies to you as well; I didn't realize you're a PS3 fanboy or I wouldn't have aruged with you in the first place.

What an enjoyable thread!!!! This reminds me of back in the days when I'd read similar rants....AT 300 BAUD (!!!!) on the old BBS's. I grew up with (and have) 8-bit Atari. Used C64 a little. Of course I'm biased towards the Atari, but this has been a very informative thread. The step back in time has been really cool. I'm actually pleasantly surprised to see people still so adamant in the advocacy of their choices from the 8-bit generation - when computers started to really come home. Who knew it would all lead to Windows Vista (barf). After reading from you Commodore fans, (Oswald, etc), I read about the VIC II and SID chips on Wikipedia and I am somewhat impressed. I had heard SID sound back in the day and was impressed then. I have no regrets about choosing A8 however. What I do have regrets about is that my Atari bias (at the time, and evidently just towards a name) automatically steered me to the ST when I likely would have enjoyed an Amiga more. Instead, I stuck with ST until 1991 when I was finally wowed away by VGA on the PC. It was only then that I experienced - for the first time - expandability and flexibility that was old hat to "Amiga people."

Thank you, O-Great-One - for "explaining" nothing. It is easy to understand, and your "explanation" is nothing more than obfuscation around the fact that you're wrong. Here's the simplicity restated, in an obvious example (and explanation) that you obviously lack the intellect to understand and/or the humility to admit: "Sony abandons hardware backward compatibility in PS3 and now those units are are coveted (up to $800) because that feature is extremely desirable." That's the case, like it or not, and if it wasn't then older 60GB models would be less desirable and it would be laughable to try to ask for MORE than a new 80GB model. I'M THROUGH EXPLAINING TO YOU. You don't have to admit this is the case, you can just piss off. POT.....KETTLE....BLACK... Do you get the reference? It's your pissy, condescending tone (just above) that's WAAAAAY out of line. So what is the reason behind your pissing and moaning? Do you have so much better to do? Aren't you enjoying people reading your drivel? Trouble at home having someone pay attention so you accuse others of it here?? Once again, piss off.

What that has to do with this is simply to illustrate the fact there IS DESIRE on the part of consumers to play the old games. That's all. Whether the games are played via backward compatibility or by paying for them and downloading them is not the point. Of course, backward compatibility benefits consumers and paying and downloading benefits the console makers. The only point was the DESIRE to play the old games, because the other guy was trying to insinuate that there is none. You don't want to understand. Please, the above sounds retarded. No, I expect a disc from the last generation to play on the next generation. That should be obvious. Please try to restrain your leaps of ridiculousness. The Wii already does this - DUH. We're primarily talking about the PS3 dropping backward compatibility. My argument is simply that backward compatibility IS DESIRABLE to consumers and NOT DESIRABLE to console makers, and that's why we're seeing its demise. Is that so goddamned difficult for you to get through your brain? Does that rambling penetrate your skull? Sony would rather you buy NEW PS3 games rather than play PS2 versions on your PS3. Go ahead and buy them, and tune out of this thread since the point is so blasted elusive to you, and most certainly not intended for you.

Contradiction? Actually, if it wasn't that desirable you wouldn't have to pay $800 for a used PS3 that was BC, you'd pay $200-$300 (appropriate used price) for a used one. Wouldn't you? BC isn't important TO YOU, but there are other people in the world.

Honestly...Most dont care. Why do you think MS and Sony aren't worried about it? It's because the majority of people don't care and don't use the feature. BC isn't all that much of a selling point guy. It isn't? Then why are 60GB versions of PS3 so desirable and expensive, if you happen to find a nice one? The cheapest one as of this date - on amazon.com - is $519.99 for a damaged one in "acceptable" condition, and $788.88 for a new one. Check this link for yourself: http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B00...9545&sr=8-6 I think it's obvious that with the "virtual consoles" and "online stores" that console makers know damn well they can get customers who DO WANT to play the older games to cough up money for a download that's only as permanent as their hard drive.....RATHER than play their old titles. Why are Xbox originals available for download???? It's more a case of greed on the part of console makers; if there were no desire to play the old games, THEY WOULDN'T BE SELLING THEM ONLINE. If there was no desire for backward compatibility, WHY IS THE 60GB PS3 SO COVETED??? BC is still important to gamers, guy.

Because they don't want to have 6 consoles hooked up and on the living room floor to play a classic game. Because they can. (or at least used to be able to) Also, it does NOT make more sense for computers because the platform is in a constant state of flux. When XP first came out, I tried to install my Sega Rally (from Win95) and it (of course) didn't recognize DirectX 8 (or whatever it was) and said I needed to "upgrade" to DX 6 (or something like that) and after dicking around unsucessfully I realized there really is only LIMITED (by time) backward compatibility on PCs. So NO Sega Rally. Good thing the Sega Saturn still works.

Obviously, my Gamecubes are the older model WITH the necessary port on the back. Gamecube cables are a RIP OFF at like $70 online. That's over twice what I paid for my last Gamecube. Please tell me some off-brand Wii component cable will work. But let me guess: They needlessly changed the AV port, right? Thanx for any info.

Oh, last gen is disposable....but only "basically," thank God. Note to self: Throw away old consoles because they're "basically disposable" = not fun. You thought you were having fun as a collector and player of classic games, but you really were not. Thanks for setting the issue straight. Only the latest shit is worth playing. How young are you? People want backward compatibility: Because they don't want to have 6 consoles hooked up and on the living room floor to play a classic game. Because they can. (or at least used to be able to) Also, it does NOT make more sense for computers because the platform is in a constant state of flux. When XP first came out, I tried to install my Sega Rally (from Win95) and it (of course) didn't recognize DirectX 8 (or whatever it was) and said I needed to "upgrade" to DX 6 (or something like that) and after dicking around unsucessfully I realized there really is only LIMITED (by time) backward compatibility on PCs. So NO Sega Rally. Good thing the Sega Saturn still works. But oh yeah, if the last gen is "basically disposable" then a Saturn must be super-duper ultra mega bigtime disposable. UHHHHHH.....because it's a good game???? One they like???? Duhhh??? Could that be it? Yes, I think that could possibly have something to do with it. Just maybe. Tough concept (for some, obviously).