Mirage

FWIW, I agree with this... three categories. That solves the problems. Also, which of those 4 guys that you mentioned is pregant?

Sorry, I was just trying to figure out if it was supposed to be based on the collection itself or something more abstract.

I personally want this to be open for interpretation. If someone feels it means the best collection, then great!. If someone feels that it means who has added the most to the community, then great! I want this to be open to those with great collections and to those who have had a huge contribution to the community at large. In Baseball, Football, or any other hall of fame they not only honor the players they also honor the contributers as well. So in my opinion I am happy there is a difference of opinion. Well, by my criteria, there could be any number of people that I've noticed in the past adding a lot to the collecting aspect of the community. All the ones already named above would definitely count, but I'd also add Rom Hunter for all the digging, archiving, and knowledge. There's several others that I'm not thinking of offhand, and I feel bad about that.

To me, it would be more about who has added the most to the community, or knowledge, or something like that. The title, as written, is "Collector", not "Collection".

"Real" ghosts are kinda flickery and transparent, so it was actually better than the arcade version! I remember playing it with my dad for hours and hours, so it was a ton of fun. I don't think I was conscious at the time that the Atari could do better, so it never really occurred to me that it was "bad". Come to think of it, Pac-Man and Video Pinball were the only two games my dad would ever play. He hated video games and computers otherwise.

I had a hard time tearing my wife away from the pins at the CGE a few weeks back. She really wanted one, and I couldn't believe it when I heard myself telling her "no, I don't think that's a good idea"! What was I thinking! Once my gameroom is ready and we have some extra cash, I'll probably surprise her for her birthday in a couple years.

Try a different insurance company. Look for something called "agreed value". You will probably have to do all the legwork, showing auction prices or other proof of historical value, give them the documentation with your total value you want it insured for, they will likely agree with proper documentation, then charge you so much per $1000 of value.

Earlier this evening, in light of this discussion, I looked through the AtariAge store at the prices for the various homebrews (I ignored hacks and repros etc for this purpose). In the new light, I now view some of them as being priced lower than they possibly could be. I don't have a lot of extra money to put into homebrews (if I did, I'd buy a lot more of them), but a little extra for the really good games would be worth it. There are some really really solid games in there. Would it motivate programmers to create new games? I can't say, but I'd be interested in hearing from more of the homebrew authors on this subject.

Centipede may be in 'fixed' supply, but I don't think there's any real shortage of them. HERO's a little harder to find, but not difficult. Although a few really good games are scarce, for the most part the best 2600 games tend to be pretty easily available. Almost all of the good games from 'back in the day' can be found for less than $20. Prices may go up some, but I'd be surprised if there were many good 1980's games that couldn't be found for less than the cost of a homebrew. And if new community members really just wanted to play the games, there's always Krokodile Cart-type options, which there would be more of if there was a larger market. Any number of people can play roms. Collecting original carts is another story, but many may just like to play, just as many in our current community are largely players, not collectors.

I personally think that would be great. The more the merrier... but then, I already have most of the carts I want except for new ones!

I think this is a key point that you've nailed here, and was absent (I think) from the conversation last time. It's not our (community's) "fault" that there aren't 10,000 people in the world willing to buy new 2600 games. If that were the case, then likely the situation would be "fair" to everyone. We'd all get cheap games, AND the creators would be paid much more. But the case is that there are only a few hundred maybe, or some smallish number, and therefore for a creator to be paid well, the carts would need to be priced higher than has been generally the case. Many of us feel that a creator _should_ be paid more for their efforts... but is it realistic that many are going to pay a ton more for a "normal" (non-Actionauts) release? Interesting questions and problem. So, it really is chicken-egg. Very well said. How many more people can be drawn into this hobby, or can be drawn into buying more new games if they are already collectors? Whose talking about "paid well?" Look at the poll. A bunch of people are pretty adament that the designer should earn $0 for his efforts. A large group of others indicated $2K month felt okay. It's really not gonna happen at that price. I know Rob, I'm on your side here. I meant being paid well as being paid MORE than that. And also, many of us don't feel that "$0 or $2000 feels okay", it's just looking at this market for what it is -- a small group of buyers... if there were 10,000 buyers, selling carts at the same price as for 300 copies would be a lot more profitable. So, either more must be charged for a programmer to make more, or there must be more buyers. Pretty simple. So, it's more about what people are willing to pay for a given cart that it is about what a programmer is "worth". Some people (including myself) tried to say that nicely in the last thread, and by your post about the chicken-egg situation, it seems that you see it that way too. It would be _great_ if you guys _could_ be paid more, and I doubt anyone would begrudge you of that. But there just simply aren't a lot of buyers. It's an interesting question. Now -- can that problem be solved somehow, and if so... how? That's the productive way of continuing this conversation.

I think this is a key point that you've nailed here, and was absent (I think) from the conversation last time. It's not our (community's) "fault" that there aren't 10,000 people in the world willing to buy new 2600 games. If that were the case, then likely the situation would be "fair" to everyone. We'd all get cheap games, AND the creators would be paid much more. But the case is that there are only a few hundred maybe, or some smallish number, and therefore for a creator to be paid well, the carts would need to be priced higher than has been generally the case. Many of us feel that a creator _should_ be paid more for their efforts... but is it realistic that many are going to pay a ton more for a "normal" (non-Actionauts) release? Interesting questions and problem. So, it really is chicken-egg. Very well said. How many more people can be drawn into this hobby, or can be drawn into buying more new games if they are already collectors?

I would expect those on the 'buying' side of the fence will probably see most things that drive up game prices as detrimental to the hobby. An understandable viewpoint, though not necessarily entirely accurate. In this market, as in most others, rising prices will cause more people to produce goods to sell. Obviously if prices rise so much that a would-be buyer can't afford anything, the presence of more sellers won't help the "buyer". On the other hand, if the price increase is large enough to attract good quality producers, but small enough that the buyer can still afford some product, the buyer may find the increased quality worth the higher price. Given that N.E.R.D.S. and The Last Ninja seem to have made some money for their producers despite being total garbage, I suspect that many AtariAge games are really underpriced. I would guess that many programmers would spend more time on 2600 development (and thus produce games a lot faster) if there were more financial incentive to do so; some might regard such a thought as 'ruinous' to the hobby, but I think it would in fact be beneficial toward it. Yeah, I see your point. I was more referring to the person a few posts back who commented that this cart being for sale somehow ruins their experience of playing their garage-sale bought Tapper cart.

All my years of thrifting and yard sales with all my finds, and I've oddly never even seen a 2600 box in the wild (and still don't own one). And you have like 18 sitting right there. You sure had good luck with those!

I said pretty much the same thing initially. The reason I 'walked into the restaurant', as you put it, was because there were a couple of rude posts from the 'sizzler' side of the fence prior to mine. I wanted to state that view in a polite, respectful fashion to keep this thread from turning into the last one, which I found to be an embarassment to the community as a whole. Swlovinist is right, there are no real sides here, just different tastes. I am glad your game is selling as well as it is. Hopefully, it will encourage more folks from the era to do something similar. Thanks for taking the time to do what you've done, I know a lot of people here appreciated it. I think quite a few people (including myself) had said the same exact thing, even in the last thread. I even tried to say it in my very first post. It was finding an acceptable way of saying it that wasn't too offensive, apparently. Previously there were a few rude and condecending comments (EDIT: comments that were _taken_ as rude and/or condescending, whether that was their intent or not, which it probably was not) on _both_ sides of the fence by a number of people, unfortunately. That's where it started to go downhill fast. Hopefully now that it's been worded in an acceptable fashion a couple times, everyone can leave it at that. It doesn't really seem like most people disagree about this, with the exception of a couple whiny ridiculous people who feel that this is somehow "ruining" the hobby for them. To that opinion, whatever. If someone doesn't want to buy it at that price, don't. That's really what it boils down to. Those people have no "right" whatsoever to anything. They're damn damn lucky that they'll maybe get the rom to play, as no one is even entitled to that.

How does this take any fun away from you playing your garage sale bought Tapper? Just don't buy it and enjoy the rest of your collection already. Mr. Fulop has every right to charge whatever he wants, and I don't think it's that bad of a price. If I could afford it right now, I'd pick one up while they last.

Buy or buy not. There is no cry. It's very generous of Rob to make the binary available later for those who cannot afford an actual cart. That's alright in my book.

I would say any of the following, depending on what you think of the AtariAge ratings (I think some of these are wildly off): Atari Video Cube. (7) (My feeling is that the rating here is too high, as it says 7, but they seem to be quite easy to find). Demolition Herby (7) Raft Rider (5) Tax Avoiders (5) Private Eye (5) River Raid II (6) I think all five of these are more rare than the supposedly (7) Atari Video Cube. And, there's no way RRII is really a 6. Also on that subject, H.E.R.O. a 5? Eh, I don't think so. Mind you, most of these were found in the WILD. Yep. I used to hit the thrifts and sales heavily in the late '90s. Only recently have I begun to pick up a few games to fill in from other collectors.

Hello. Looking to collect some more Atari 2600 manuals. -- NTSC/U.S. instructions or equivalent only, prefer not the thick International versions, but if you have one of those, let me know anyway. -- Must be in decent display condition, but some wear is okay. Send pics if possible. -- Not interested in the carts (except as noted), only manuals. I've listed boxes I need in another thread. -- Not interested in any of those weird late B&W manuals (except where that is all that was ever released!), just the original-style full-color manuals. -- The black version or white version manuals are fine, either large or small size, any of these varieties is fine. Please let me know what you have, and how much you're asking, including shipping, well-protected, to Wisconsin, USA. I don't like having to make offers, just let me know what you want and we'll go from there. Thanks in advance! I am bookworm100 on ebay with 100% positive feedback (around 550) both buying and selling. Note that Sears brand and Atari brand are listed separately... two separate lists! ATARI-BRAND 2600 MANUALS WANTED: 3D Tic Tac Toe A Game of Concentration Alpha Beam with Ernie Atari Video Cube Basic Programming Codebreaker Cookie Monster Munch Desert Falcon Double Dunk Fun with Numbers (also need another cart to replace my bad label one) Krull Miniature Golf Oscar's Trash Race Pele's Soccer (NOT Championship Soccer, has to have Pele's mug on the cover ) Pengo Pigs in Space Realsports Boxing Realsports Volleyball Secret Quest Slot Machine Sorcerer's Apprentice Sprintmaster Star Ship Stargate Super Baseball Taz Video Checkers SEARS-BRAND 2600 MANUALS WANTED: 3D Tic Tac Toe Arcade Golf Backgammon Basketball Bowling Brain Games Cannon Man (also need cart) Canyon Bomber Capture Chase Checkers Circus Codebreaker Dare Diver (also need cart) Defender Demons to Diamonds Dodger Cars Football Gunslinger Math Math Gran Prix Memory match Missile Command Night Driver Othello Outer Space Pac-Man Poker Plus Slots Soccer Space Combat Space Invaders Spelling Star Raiders Steeplechase Stellar Track Submarine Commander (also need cart) Super Breakout Superman Video Chess Warlords Yars' Revenge ACTIVISION BRAND 2600 MANUALS WANTED: Beamrider Checkers Commando Cosmic Commuter Crackpots Double Dragon Frostbite Ghostbusters HERO Kung Fu Master Pitfall II Plaque Attack Pressure Cooker Private Eye Robot Tank OTHER BRAND 2600 MANUALS WANTED: DATA AGE - Airlock DATA AGE - Bermuda Triangle DATA AGE - Encounter at L5 DATA AGE - Frankenstein's Monster (also need cart) DATA AGE - SSSnake (also need cart) IMAGIC - Fathom IMAGIC - Laser Gates IMAGIC - Moonsweeper IMAGIC - Quick Step IMAGIC - Solar Storm MNETWORK - Bump 'n Jump MNETWORK - Burgertime MNETWORK - Int'l Soccer MNETWORK - Kool-Aid Man MNETWORK - Star Strike (also need cart) MNETWORK - Tron Deadly Discs MYTHICON - Sorcerer STARPATH - Dragonstomper STARPATH - Frogger EDIT: Removed some items coming to me.

Hello. Looking to collect some more Atari-branded 2600 boxes. -- NTSC/U.S. boxes or equivalent only. -- Must be in decent display condition. Slightly torn top from excited Christmas morning opening is okay, and some very slight crushing is acceptable if necessary and if the price is right, but must not be really crushed, torn up, extremely faded, etc. Send pics if possible. -- Not interested in the carts, only boxes (but if you only have CIB for the right price, that's fine). I'll list manuals I need in another thread. -- Not interested in any of those weird late B&W boxes, just the original-style full-color boxes. Please let me know what you have, and how much you're asking, including shipping, well-protected and boxed, to Wisconsin 53072, USA. I don't like having to make offers, just let me know what you want and we'll go from there. Thanks in advance! I am bookworm100 on ebay with 100% positive feedback (around 550) both buying and selling and have traded with several people on AA. My main interest is getting the more common Atari color boxes, like Football, Yars' Revenge etc... so if these are the only ones you have, still please don't hesitate to let me know! I'm mostly just trying to create a nice display of the ones I had back in the day. Atari-Brand 2600 COLORED Boxes Wanted: Backgammon Basic Math Basic Programming Blackjack Brain Games Football Fun With Numbers Indy 500 Math Gran Prix Maze Craze Miniature Golf Othello Outlaw Pele's Soccer (not Championship Soccer, must have Pele's mug on the cover ) Slot Machine Slot Racers Superman Surround Video Chess Yars' Revenge GATEFOLD BOXES Basic Math Black Jack Indy 500 Star Ship Street Racer Surround SILVER BOXES Atari Video Cube Centipede Crystal Castles E.T. Gremlins Krull Mario Bros. Millipede Moon Patrol Pengo RealSports Soccer RealSports Tennis RealSports Volleyball Stargate SwordQuest Fireworld Taz RED BOXES Desert Falcon Double Dunk Midnight Magic Q-Bert (Atari) RealSports Boxing SEARS BOXES Any Sears-Brand 2600 boxes you have to offer at a reasonable price. I have Berzerk and Target Fun already.

Ahhhhhhh, the mysteries of eBay!

sorry, double post, Firefox crashed.

Yes, to everything you said. You're right, they wouldn't have left the consumer guessing... it's in the Phaser Patrol manual, which was a pack-in with the SC unit, and it was in the other manuals as well, presumably in case someone had lost their Phaser Patrol manual, they'd still be able to figure out how to use their new game. It actually makes sense that they'd decide to do it that way.

Well, I got mine sealed, and there's no separate manual in it. But, it's an Arcadia, which may be why, or maybe it was a fluke. I can make no guarantees.

The first two pages are similar in all the Starpath manuals, including Sword of Saros and Survival Island. BTW, my daddy kept all the documentation that came with the Supercharger stuff in this briefcase I have, and a manual for the Arcadia unit itself is not in here. I figured they'd all have that same first two pages (or similar). I have all the manuals, but didn't feel like digging them out. I don't have a definitive answer, but I suspect there is no such thing as a separate manual for the Supercharger unit itself, unless they started including them later when it was Starpath. That, I don't know.