Mirage

Son of a!!!! I won't be moving back to Wisconsin until nearly the second half of 2008!!!

Holy cow... I have 5 2600's (plus two empty 2600 shells) and I thought that was bad. I want to hack one up to make a portable, but only have 2 4-switchers, so I'm going to have to get another for that, because I want to still have a functional 4-switch woody and 4-switch Vader. So, I can see where having 60 of them may come in handy!

Agree, underrated game.

I wonder when they'll get more stock, or get caught up or whatever. I'd still like to get several kits, and also one of those mini 2600 boards if ever available again!

Unlikely any lawyers are going to get involved. I agree with a couple others that this is just getting way ahead... slow down, relax, enjoy for now, decide later. Above all, don't get stressed about this. It's supposed to be fun. Life is stressful enough in other ways without getting stressed about an Atari game. Enjoy. Be happy that you're so lucky. No problems!

We're all really lucky to have such a great place like AtariAge to get stuff like homebrew carts in a reliable way. Al has always done such a great job (I've actually been around for years under a now-forgotten username). This sort of site and service is most definitely not the norm for this hobby.

It really seems to be all-too-common in this hobby. It's even worse in the Commodore group. I can't remember his name, but the guy who made the SCPU's and hard drives and stuff for the C64/128 -- a lot of those guys have been waiting for their stuff for years, even for simple repairs... Ridiculous! I hope you get your stuff soon. I've heard good things about 8bitdomain, and I'd like to order a few things sometime if they're in stock again.

I already said this: "I have no doubt that you may like collecting Atari, because otherwise I doubt you'd do it...". It really seems that you read just exactly what you want to read, and no more. But, it's very clear that you care a lot about the monetary value of games. A _lot_. Which is fine, I just don't happen to share that focus, and by all your comments about struggling, I've just been trying to give you a little friendly advice on the fact that classic games are, by far, not a good investment either short- or long-term. Others have tried to give you the same advice in this thread and in others. You don't listen. That's your choice. EDIT: I'm not trying to be mean, or argue... I just suddenly yesterday realized that your focus here seems to be very strongly monetary. That's not something I can relate to with Atari games. That's all I'm saying. And I think you're wrong about dead, bit-rotted games being very valuable in the future! You're getting very defensive about all this though, so I really have nothing else to say. Take care though.

Either you haven't been around very long (joined Nov 2007 confirmed) or you haven't been paying attention. Homerwannabe is clearly very interested in value. I doubt he ever thought of these as an investment considering what he paid. Well maybe he thought in the long run, but it doesn't matter. HWB posts alot about value, it's one of his interests in collecting. As one of the dustier older fuddy duddies, I don't worry so much about today's values. It's not a primary concern. And my collection is too large to value as the sum of its parts for insurance purposes. I figure if I ever do sell this stuff (it would be like a bad disability plan), it will be so far in the future that I'll have to make some kind of inflation adjustment to understand the run up in value or it won't matter, I'll be like HWB and just need the money so badly so as not to care. I was around a long time ago (probably 2001-2004), but dropped out for a long time due to moving around the country/career/etc. I honestly don't even remember my username. So, I'm sort of old around here, but since I've forgotten most of the people, I'm basically new again, yeah. And sure, it took me awhile to catch on to what was behind this thread, but now I see that it's solely based on obsession with value and investment. I couldn't agree with you more about values. Not a primary concern. Who cares... I have well over 1000 carts for various systems and I have every single one because I wanted to own it, not because of any sort of monetary value either present or future (and btw, most of them were found in the wild, cheaply... a few were bought from collectors, and an even more very few were ebay'ed). If one day I sell them, fine, I'll get what they're worth at the time, and that's that. One last thing, then I'm out of this thread ------ Homerwannabee: _You_ don't set the market value for things, as much as you may like to think you can, or as much as you'd like to. _The Market_ sets the value.

In what conceivable alternative universe would I be singing a different tune were I in that position? The fact that you had to sell some of your collection because you were broke makes every single one of my points for me! I guess it's for your own good in the long run that you're realizing this now. It's too bad you didn't realize that Atari was a bad investment a lot sooner, but everyone makes mistakes. I've made mistakes, I just didn't happen to make that particular same mistake. I hope you do okay, and I sure hope you're also investing money in a more sound manner for your future. I think the high-cost of future living, healthcare, and retirement homes is a far more sure thing than the future value of Atari stuff! EDIT - P.S. - You should learn to edit your quoted text a little better. Hardly anyone wants to see my long-a** ramblings the first time, much less the same exact one quoted 2-3 times in a thread!

Well, after reading the thread I linked to a few posts back, and some other postings by you (homerwannabe), I now see where this is going. It's obvious that you're quite obsessed with the value of the games and using them for investment purposes (even if you're coming to the sneaking suspicion that it may not have been the best investment plan). To each their own, I'm not going to personally knock you for that at all, it's none of my business, but I'm one of the collectors who doesn't really care about the value of the carts. I care in the sense that I don't want to overpay, so I want to see what a game is going for in general before I buy, and I care in the sense that I'm not going to seek out a cart where the purchase price is higher than my desire to own the cart (for whatever reason that may be), but after I have a particular cart, I don't care one whit what it's worth (other than for the insurance value, and I'm currently working on that). I love the games and Atari stuff because I love them and want to have a collection of it, for enjoyment. My previous conjectures stand about why some stuff goes for less than "you" may think it "should", but my actual caring about the value of Atari stuff after I own it is nil. I have no doubt that you may like collecting Atari, because otherwise I doubt you'd do it, but to me, someone who is focused very much on the value of it is really got their priorities out of whack. Again, this isn't a personal judgment against you, I'm just saying, as others have, that this is not a wise investment vehicle, period. Adding to the bad investment is the fact that you're buying post-tax. Say you spend $1000 one year on Atari. That same $1000, if put into (for example) a 401(k), is pre-tax... that's suddenly maybe $1300 you just spent on Atari that year. Then if your employer contributes, suddenly that's maybe $1600. Then add the compounded interest of a 401(k) properly invested... well, you just dropped way way way way more on Atari than you're _ever_ going to get out of it in all likelihood at all. You should only be buying Atari after you've well-supplied your retirement savings each month, and more investments on top of that can't hurt. _Then_, with your _entertainment_ money, buy Atari stuff. Yup. With your set-aside _entertainment_ money. Not _investment_ money. If you don't have enough money to eat and pay the rent, then investing in Atari sure as heck isn't going to help you climb out of that hole any faster. Not trying to lecture, just after I've seen a lot more of your postings, I'm just concerned about a fellow Atarian. Oh, and in that other thread, you put yourself on a 5-year moratorium for discussing various things related to Atari values. While you didn't necessarily violate those exact points directly (I'm not going back to check), you've certainly pushed the line! Looks like it took you awhile to figure out a way around it, but you're in a roundabout way discussing the exact same issues in a different way. Good luck. I'm going to be not stressed out about the values of my games enjoying them, not worrying about tracking them like the stock market. You have fun with them however you'd like to!

Oooooooohhhhhhh, I get it now... http://www.atariage.com/forums/index.php?s...hl=ET&st=25

Thanks for the gameplay report! What are the sounds like? Do they sound familiar, like from any other 2600 game?

Looking forward to hearing about the gameplay. I hope it turns out to be a good game rather than just another rare game that's a dud! I certainly can understand your excitement. I'd be beside myself with such a find, I can't even imagine. Have fun!

Holy cow... This is one of the reasons I love this hobby so much. Congrats! I hope this ROM is made available soon, I'd really like to try it... looks interesting!

You never know... call/email the guy. I've gotten a couple things off CL that have sat there for well over a week with no takers. I've also recently seen some people re-list the same item (Ataris) a little later due to no takers. Worst he can say is that it's gone! Looks like a fantastic deal!

Why $45? What's so special about it, when most hb carts are $20-25?

I actually remember those, I believe "Native American" Trading posts would be what they are called now... I was just there about a year ago, and believe it or not, there are (or were) still some (a few) that still say "Indian". I was really surprised. There aren't nearly as many of them as I remember from 25 years ago though.

There will be people really pissed off when this is released. There will be others with big smiles on their faces. Well, could you at least say if it's an entirely new program/game or if it's a hack? I would be super-pssed to pay $45 for a hack, that's for sure, and I would hope that anyone else would be.

I'm willing to bet one of my testicles that it's not a cool game. LOL, okay... maybe not... I was just trying to be nice... I have no idea what it could be of course!

You didn't actually specifically say that this is a new game... could be old Combat carts with numbers 1-20 on them! Just kidding. Intriguing marketing concept, and it's probably a cool game. I always got bitten buying those brown-paper-wrapped mystery bins in the "Indian Trading Posts" in Wisconsin Dells when I was a kid though. I'll probably kick myself once we find out what this is though!

Browser is Firefox 2.0, by the way, same issue on both Mac & Windows of that Browser. So, does he (ATARIPITBULL) know the source of the ad? Magazine, year? Did it run rarely or often, anything at all? Just curious. After having seen so many ads over and over, this one's new to me. Nice find.

No, but why does the AtariMania site insist on throwing my browser all around the screen, resizing my window, etc. It's super-annoying, and I see no logical reason for it. It's a great site, though, don't get me wrong. Fantastic, even. Where was this ad from, do you know? I don't remember ever having seen it before.

Well, right, the muscle cars are hotter than ever -- right now. The timeline is totally different (also the fact that you're talking about higher $ items there than video games). I agree games/Atari isn't going to die off anytime soon. It'll be interesting to see if it gets more or less popular and by how much, and I don't think anyone can know for sure. We can only speculate. Old stuff will always have value, but how much? And exactly what will have the most value? Who knows for sure. As an aside, I have a theory about the quality of antiques/old stuff that's related to this. It seems to me that the way the quality of (most) goods is going down, that there will be fewer high-quality goods available in the future from any period after, say, the '80s, or maybe even the '70s, depending on perspective. With all the Chinese crap being made nowadays and less good stuff, it may drive up the price of the older antiques even more, eventually. I have no idea if I'm right, but it's my theory, if I explained it understandably at all.

Homer, This is the sentiment of a large number of collectors of all walks of life. This explains the discrepancies you raise and is also the reason why, contrary to your beliefs, this hobby will most likely dwindle in future decades to come. Younger gamers just won't have the same attraction to Atari 2600 games as those that grew up in the 70s and 80s and so they will not place as much value on these items. you would therefore expect these to fall in value over the long run. Exactly,i was going to say the same thing,its just how life goes.Things are born,grow old, die,and become forgotten eventually. Yeah, that's how life goes. Eventually, people will care less, or at least care differently than we do. They will become a museum curiosity more than anything (and then, it will be Combat and Pac-Man, the rest will be obscured to footnotes of history). There will be more games than that. I believe Frogger, Donkey Kong, Centipede, Pitfall, Pitfall II, Adventure, H.E.R.O. Montezuma's Revenge, and some others will always have a place in video game history. Seems like we have some revisionist history going on. Last time I checked Antiques in good condition are actually wanted. Just think about it. Almost everything from 80 years ago whether toy, car, or whatever is usually highly wanted. This belief that no one will care about it because it is old is just plain wrong. The fact is things like this gain appreciation over time not lose it. I agree that they will have a place in video game history... I was referring to the general public, say for example in regular museums (although I was probably exaggerating, but probably not by much in the distant future). There will always be collectors who care about the ones that you list, probably a dwindling number of collectors though. I think maybe someone else said that these things would have no value, but I only said that certain things will have more value than others, and it won't be based purely on rarity or historical significance. I don't see any revisionist history going on here, just speculation. For one thing, I, at least, never said that antiques in good condition aren't wanted. I said that sometimes more common ones are worth more than really rare stuff. Not always, but sometimes. A lot of times it's more based upon what people remember and have an attachment to. Here's one example of value. The price of antique cars (say up to and through the 1940's) has, in many cases, dropped a lot over the past 10 years or so. Part of the reason is because the people that remember them are dying, or getting too old to enjoy them and are selling them. Sure, there's still a lot of people who care (I like them, and I'm only 35), but many of the core group of collectors are passing on, reducing demand. You can get a Model A Ford in the recent past for far less than you could say 20 years ago. The opposite has happened to muscle cars from the '60s and early '70s. The past 10 years, most all of their values have gone through the roof, as the people who most want them (core group of collectors) has come to the age where they actually have extra time and money. Sure, age of the cars has something to do with it too, but it's mostly who is buying them and can afford them, competing for the limited number of them for sale. As these groups of collectors age and die, there will be fewer collectors and the values may drop (in theory, but there are always exceptions, muscle cars may be one of them, who knows). It's not revisionist history... it's reality... supply and demand. Yes, most antiques in good condition have monetary value and are in demand, but that hasn't at all been the discussion here... it's been why certain things are worth more than other things. But to think that once the core group of fans/collectors ages, that generations of the future will place the exact same value and perspective on things is probably unrealistic. But... we'll see... one never can tell for sure how it will go. Actually, I guess we won't see, cuz we'll be gone! For now, it's largely not so much that I (or others) don't care... I'd LOVE to have a complete 2600 collection. Due to $, time, space, and mostly the wife factor (don't underestimate the wife factor either!!!!), most of us need to pick and choose, therefore raising the demand for certain items, while others have to unfortunately take less priority. I don't disagree with what you're saying, but I think you may have misunderstood what we're saying, at least a little bit. EDIT: Factor in too, that regular (say, metal) antiques don't stop working over time... most (all?) old games and computers will stop working eventually, in their original form. The physical medium will still have some value, but this is something fairly unprecedented in antiquing! Antiques that have an expiration date! Take care... good discussion, by the way, thanks for starting the thread.