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Atari2008

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Posts posted by Atari2008

  1. Posted

    But a year later, when I went to the Atari 8-bit, I was shocked at how little the 8-bit carts were! :P

     

    Was the use of 2600 form factor on 7800 carts simply a cost-saving measure? I think the "image" of such carts might have been improved if they'd been bigger (a suitable cartridge port design could handle either larger or smaller carts without difficulty).

    Yeah,which makes me wonder why the 5200 carts are so huge all the more!

     

    I'm curious why is everything about the 5200 large? Why is the console so big? Is it because they had to turn an Atari computer into a system and all of that took up space? Add in the, storage for the controllers and that also accounts for space. I've read that part of the logic was the "bigger is better" mentality, but I wanted to know if there were more practical reasons for the size. Also, why is the power supply so large? Is it because they were planning on turning it into a computer?

  2. Posted

    I'll weigh in but more from a "pseudo-historian" perspective since I was not around at the time and my first introduction to video games was the NES. I think there are many reasons why the 5200 failed to catch on, some of it is related to Atari's mismanagement of the system, their being caught off-guard by the Colecovision, and also their game library which seemed to be rehashes (although superior graphically) of games previously available. The controllers which must've struck gamers as unusual in their non-self centering design, in addition to being prone to malfunction, probably didn't help things. Atari's pack-in game clearly didn't have a shot against Colecovision's Donkey Kong (although they later switched to Pac-Man, maybe too late). I think that had Atari released alternate controllers -- so gamers could've had options since some people do like the stock controllers -- and jazzed up their library, it may have done a bit better. But also at least from the famous Ray Kassar quote it seems that Atari knew the 5200 had flaws and they seemed also eager to switch gears. Although the 7800 was outdated and a bit of an oddity when it was released in '86, it must've seemed revolutionary in '84 when it would've been released. From a cursory glance it seems to solve many of the problems -- 2600 compatible and self centering joysticks.

     

    However I don't think things turned out all that badly. The 5200 has a dedicated fan base till this day and homebrews are still on the horizon. The Colecovision although also short-lived due to the crash has a place in people's collective conscience and is fondly remembered, with a vast library that still amazes me as a younger gamer. I think a few things could've been changed here and there but things unfolded as they should. There are different eras in everything and that includes gaming. And I'm glad that the NES revitalize and revolutionized gaming, and best of all we can now enjoy the best of all worlds with all these classic systems to choose from.

  3. Posted

    You may remember the Angry Video Game Nerd's infamous review of the 5200...now he takes on the Intellivision (Part 1) and Colecovision (Part 2). Even though he only dogs the systems I think it's really funny, despite having enjoyed Colecovision games. Of course a warning, contains very fowl language.

     

    Enjoy!

     

    Intellivision:

    Double Vision Part 1

     

    Colecovision:

    Double Vision Part 2

  4. Posted

    Because Ray Kassar was quoted as saying"We all know the 5200 is a piece of s$%t"Thats explains it right there.Go to atari7800.com,and look up 7800 history,thats where the quote is.Which ive also seen in numerous other publications as well.Rightfully or wrongfully quoted,not my concern,just saying what ive read.

     

    Yes, I've seen that quote as, and it's interesting that the head of Atari felt that way about the 5200, I also read that many of the programmers referred to the controllers as "jokesticks" since they didn't self-center and pleaded for Atari not to release the system until the controllers were redesigned. My question was sparked really by a curiosity since I grew up in the NES era, but was still aware of the 2600 and even the 7800, I just found it interesting that the 5200 seemed to be the Atari system that people know the least about. Also, looking at the system in restrospect (since it was before my time), many of the games are fun and well done (this is based on emulators, I will admit my opinion is handicapped by the fact that I've never played an actual 5200) so from that lens it seems that the system should've been more successful or at least more fondly remembered. I was also curious about why Atari would release another system (7800) in such a short period of time rather than tweaking what they thought was wrong with the 5200. It just seemed too quick for Atari to release yet another system.

     

    Still regardless of what happened and why, that's the past, but the good thing is that the 5200 still seems to have a fan base, including new people like myself who are discovering it for the first time. Looking forward, I see that many homebrews and conversions have been released (and will continue) that have expanded the 5200 library. I'm sure that in the coming years we'll see games that showcase the system's strengths and push the limits, like we've seen with the Colecovision.

     

    And on a closing notes....Gremlins rocks. :-)

  5. Posted

    Colecovision/Adam game console using a 6 outlet power strip with an on/off switch (use this switch to power-on the game console as it has no built in power-switch (thank God!).

     

    BTW, here's a pic of the game store in the Cloak and Dagger movie with Colecovisions above, Jack (?) holding a Cloak and Dagger box, and Atari 5200 Tempest box bottom center. Looking back, who wouldn't have snatched up most of that store by any means necessary! ;) Would be cool to get a good port of both games for the 5200 (or the 8-bit systems) though.

     

    That Adam Game Console looks cool...and Frogger is the perfect game to showcase. Unbiased opinion of course. ;)

  7. Posted

    So I just got my 7800 fixed and started playing with the joystick for the first time since I was little, and one word sums up my experience: OUCH! I never knew how painful those sticks were to use. I'm curious since the 5200 seems to share a similar shape to the 7800 joystick, without taking into consideration the malfunction issues (I know about those already :) ), how comfortable are the 5200 sticks to use? Do they also cram the palm of your hands like the 7800 ones? How do they feel after extended gameplay?

  8. Posted

    I played my 7800 yesterday after having not touched it in over 10 years (just got it fixed), and now I see what everyone is talking about. It didn't bother me when I was little, but now those joysticks are PAINFUL! I could barely last 5 minutes. It really killed my palms. Wow the 7800 joystick was definitely ill-designed, going to invest in a pair of joypads.

  9. Posted

    All I'm going to say is there are a lot of in-accurate facts being thrown around in this thread. People need to do a little more research. Try www.atari-history.com for starters.

     

    Allan

     

    Thanks for the link, I found the Atari Museum to be very informative. Reading the documents, it makes sense why Atari chose the type of joystick they did, I think with a few revisions it would've been more widely accepted. Also, like how the engineers referred to them as "jokesticks." :-) Are there any other Atari historical sites?

  11. Posted

    What they failed to realize was how the public would feel about it all. The 5200's official lifespan was less than 1 1/2 years. That's it. And now, they were just going to abandon the 5200 owners. And for what? The 7800, with games like Joust, Ms. Pac-Man, Robotron:2084, and Centipede. All of which had been done on the 2600 and 5200, the latter 3 good enough to stand up to the 7800 versions (Centipede on the 5200 is actually somewhat better!).

     

    Look at the games that would have been released for the 5200: Tempest, Millipede, Super Pac-Man, and Pac-Man Jr.. If completed and released, more than a few gamers would have taken another look at the 5200, and it would have been CURRENT with the arcade scene (close enough).

     

    A huge part of the problem were idiot Baby Boomer marketers who had no idea how the younger, game-playing generation felt. They had convinced themselves, a-la "Dilbert", that "video gaming was dead; the future is in COMPUTERS."

     

    2008. X-Box 360 and Playstation 3. Will they NOW admit that they didn't know a damn thing?

     

    Huh. Not likely.

     

    That's why I started this topic. I just found it real curious that Atari would abandon the system after such a short period of time, even the 7800 which had much less of a shot against its competition (NES & SMS) received many more years of support from Atari. Not having owned the system,I can't speak from a personal experience but the games look like they hold their own against the Colecovision and certainly surpass them in terms of audio (even surpassing the 7800!).

     

    I think Atari dropped the 5200 too quickly, granted I guess the crash didn't buy them much time but it looks like Atari planned to drop the 5200 anyways, otherwise why else go forward with the 7800? I think Atari should've slimmed down the size of the system (if not for aesthetic reasons, to keep costs down) and released alternate controllers that self-centered and were more durable for people who preferred them.

     

    Still I look forward to owning a 5200 soon, and am glad to see that it has some homebrew support, namely in the form of 8-bit conversions. It would be interesting to see how the system could be pushed with some new original titles... :cool:

  12. Posted

    The only Atari systems I've owned are the 2600, 7800, and Jaguar, in that order. Never had an interest in the Lynx, and lately I've been interested in the 5200 and being playing games on an emulator, but I know that doesn't really count, so I'll leave those 2 systems out. I never had a complaint with the 7800 when I owned it, but this might be due to the fact that I bought it in the mid-90s when it was already considered an old system. I was just impressed because although I liked the 2600, I thought all Atari systems were just as primitive, so to see an Atari that could play NES-like games was amazing to me at the time. However had I owned a 7800 during the NES's hey day it would've been a different story.

     

    The Jaguar I got at the tail-end of its life becuase I was an Atari fan and wanted to support their latest system. I liked Cybermorph, Rayman, Zool 2, Tempest 2000, and Theme Park. I thought the graphics and sound were cool and didn't have any complaints with the controller although I thought the number pad was odd. However I ended up picking up more games and I noticed a high number of space shooters and crappy games and quickly lost interest in the Jaguar, so I'd have to place it as my least fave among the 3.

  13. Posted

    While we're on the topic of wish lists :) I would like to see a completed Frogger (and maybe a Frogger 2 down the line), other arcade classics like Popeye and Zaxxon. And although any aren't coming to mind, I'd like to see more side scrolling platformers like Scrapyard Dog, not sure if any can be easily ported.

  14. Posted

    I was wondering the same question. I'm glad to see that the homebrew scene has picked up, although from the current selection the only ones that match my tastes are Bonq and Pac-Man Collection. Is Frogger going to be completed this year? What other homebrew games are on the horizon? I feel the 7800 is an under-utilized platform given the library of games that were released for it, I'm curious to see what amazing things programmers could do today with the 7800, just like the cool homebrews that we've seen on the 2600. :)

  16. Posted

    I wanted to know how durable and safe the 4-port TV switchbox is. I'll admit, I have images of that Angry Video Game Nerd video dancing in my head, when he tries to hook up the switchbox to the TV and a spark fly out. Does that really happen or was that just some special effect? I find it bizarre that the power supply hooks up to the switchbox although I can see Atari's logic in wanting to reduce wire clutter. I'm decided between a 2-port and 4-port 5200 so I just wanted to make sure the switchbox doesn't give people headaches. Also, some 2-port 5200's don't play all the games?

     

    Thanks!

  17. Posted

    Also, I think Atari could've made the 7800 their centerpiece system. I understand that the 2600 was their top selling system, but reintroducing it as the 2600jr and then continuing to support it at the same time as the 7800 were mistakes. Also releasing the XEGS was another terrible drain of resources and attention, and I would imagine it confused the public....I mean 3 Atari systems? It's as if Atari was ambivalent about the 7800 and went back and forth between the 2600 and XEGS, they should've had faith in the 7800 and pushed it as their main and only platform. Also, the more NES-style games like Midnight Mutants and Scrapyard Dog should've came out much sooner. I mean Scrapyard Dog came out in 1990, all 3 of the Super Mario Bros. series had already been released by then! Too little too late.

     

    In their defense, they didn't have a lot of money to spend either. Not like the deep pockets of Sony, Nintendo, MS or even Sega.

     

    True although I think they could have spent more than they actually did. There certainly was a lot of profit taking from the 7800 ...

  18. Posted

    It's interesting that Atari kept rehashing many of the same titles that were available on the 2600 and 5200 for the 7800, instead of pushing it in different directions. Plus, many of those same games and more innovative titles were available on the NES. Atari did have a great library of classic games but they over-relied on it. It's true the Colecovision had more inventive titles that pushed the limits (like Smurfs which can be considered a primitive Super Mario Bros), while the 7800 had the same tired games. I mean how many different versions of Joust, Mario Bros., and Ms. Pacman can you play? The 7800 could've been much more competitive had Atari pushed it to the max. Most of the library leaves one feeling that the system still has a lot of untapped potential. I mean only one side-scrolling platformer? The NES made that one of the most popular genres of the time. Just from the perspective of variety, rehashing the same titles would make people who already owned a 2600 and/or 5200 less inclined to pick up a 7800 to play enhanced versions of the same games. Still with the 7800 homebrew scene picking up, maybe we'll see what the 7800 is really capable of. :cool:

     

    It would also be interesting to see what other types of games the 5200 is capable of as well.

     

    The Atari 7800, even in the more prosperous and populated area I used to live in, did not really make any sort of an appearance until 1988. In Kay-Bee Toys, no less. But even if we say 1987, what games did it offer? Why, Ms. Pac-Man, Centipede, Joust, Asteroids, Robotron: 2084, etc.

     

    See the problem?

    You should read this article. Follows with exactly what you're saying.

     

     

     

    Yeah - that is something that has always bugged me. When Atari made the 7800, they were essentially grumbling about three pain points in their life.

     

    1. The Colecovision

    2. Parents who complained that the 5200 couldn't play 2600 games

    3. The dropping prices of home computers.

     

    The initial lineup of games and licenses to product games reflects this.

     

    Then the NES comes out of nowhere in 1985 and totally redefines the kinds of video games the public wants to play.

     

    Jack dusts off the 7800 and throws it to market with the old games repacked in cheap labels in 1986.

     

    In 1987-8, with the fiercest competitor imaginable eating up the market, what does he do? Spends nothing on advertising. Tosses licenses to market, often hastily developed with cheap developers. Worst of all - he divides his limited resources by having the XEGS and 2600jr at the same time.

     

    Finally, in 1989, he realizes he can't continue this way. He pares back the XEGS. He starts releasing bigger games and getting better licenses.

     

    By 1989 though, the 16-bit consoles (Genesis and TG-16 are on market) and forcing the 7800 off shelves.

     

    Nice.

  19. Posted

    Thanks for the lists everyone! From the look of things, it sounds like I can't go wrong with classic arcade titles and the homebrews at the AA store. Can't wait to play Pac-Man...it sounds like it gets rave reviews all over this forum. :)

     

    My favorites...

     

    Xevious

    Galaga

    Food Fight

    Robotron

    Asteroids

    Centipede

    DK Jr

    One on ONe

    Mario Bros

    Pac Man Collection

    Dig Dug

  20. Posted

    I had never thought about the Colecovision exclusive titles but it seems like the CV had some more unique titles than the 5200. The 5200 had great Atari titles and arcade ports but the CV also had games that seemed to push new ground. One example I could think of is Smurfs, although it hasn't aged well in my view, it must've been revolutionary in 1982, and was unique to the CV (granted there was a 2600 version but it was much more slimmed down). Then there was Turbo, although not a unique title, it did have that steering wheel which looks cool. I think if the CV had a few more original games (like Gremlins) in the library earlier on it would've sold more. Especially because 2600 owners wouldnt feel like they were getting another system to play the same games. Also, it seems a shame given the 5200's incredible hardware that Atari didnt push it further. The 5200's smooth scrolling for example would've been an advantage for a side scrolling adventure game (although I know there were hardly any of those at the time) but maybe had it lived on...

  21. Posted

    Hey everyone,

     

    My 7800 is currently being repaired, and soon I'll be ready to play it after a 10-12 year hiatus...I know it's been a while, but my Sega Genesis and Super Nintendo started getting more and more attention at the time. I owned a few games at the time: Pole Position 2, Donkey Kong, Donkey Kong Jr, Scrapyard Dog, and Karateka (ugh!). I've been reading about (and playing on emulator) many of the lackluster titles in the library, so I want to just focus in on the games that are most fun to play. So what are some of people's favorites? What are the killer games in the 7800 library? Also, I've ordered Pac-Man Collection since I've read so much about it plus the thought of a new 7800 game is cool.

     

    I'm a huge fan of the original Mario Bros. game and used to play the NES port a lot back in the day...how does it fare on the 7800?

  23. Posted

    I don't know what prices 5200's have gone for before I started looking but all of the auctions I've seen on eBay have ended up selling for either $40 and usually more and that's with few games and many sold "as is." Looks like the 5200 is a pretty popular system these days...

     

    is it just me or has the prices of 5200 systems boomed?

  24. Posted

    Hey, thanks for the input! I've actually decided to save up and get the system from 4Jays since it'll be guaranteed to work, unlike those listed on eBay 98% of which are sold "as is" with all the sellers claiming for one reason or another unable to test the system. And I do like the idea that the 5200's from 4Jays already come with 1 rebuilt controller so I can just start gaming as soon as I receive the system. :)

     

    I'm really excited about being able to play 5200 games on the real hardware at some point, I've been using the Atari800Win emulator and the 5200 games are awesome! I've enjoyed its versions of Pac-Man (wow! way better than the 2600's with intermissions!), Mario Bros (the details and animations are amusing), and am hooked on Gremlins at the moment. Cool system, with a library like that, I think I can deal with the controllers.

     

    On the size...yea I measured my entertainment center to make sure it would fit! LOL :D

     

    By the time you refurbish a couple of joysticks (you'll have to at least buy flex circuits), buy the deck of evilbay, and get it shipped, you might as well buy the complete setup from 4jays. I can highly recommend them. Excellent customer service and good prices.

     

    Trust me, you'll get many years of enjoyment from your 5200. It's an outstanding system, and the ratio of good games vs bad games in the library is outstanding. Seriously, I have all but about 8 or so, and prety much every game I own is good to great, and the 'worst' ones are merely average.

     

    Plus, it's huge and it looks awesome. Biggest. System. Ever!

  25. Posted

    Thank you for the link - the Atari Museum is real interesting! Given how the industry was unraveling and Atari was dealing with its own decline, the move toward the 7800 as opposed to tweaking the 5200 seems a bit more understandable, and wow how cool would that 2600/7800 adaptor for the 5200 have been? That would've made the 5200 the only Atari console compatible with all 3 of their systems.

     

    My question initially grew out of the observation -- and this is coming as a 7800 owner since i've never owned a 5200 -- that although graphically superior, the 7800 fell short of the 5200 in a few areas. Namely the sound...I've been playing a few 5200 games via emulation and even read about how their baseball game had synthesized voices...clearly the 5200 was ahead of the curve, and the 7800's sound is more comparable to the 2600. I can't speak mcuh about the 5200 since I've never played with one, only from what I've heard, but it seems to me that having the start and pause buttons on the controller was much more convenient and advanced than having them on the console as the 7800 did.

     

    Also, it seems from the quality of the games and even the advertising that still Atari put more effort behind the 5200 during its time, than they did the 7800 when it was finally released. Also, I just thought it was interesting that after the crash, Atari still supported the 2600 but the 5200 just seemed to have fallen off the face of the earth.

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