Supergun

Monday at 02:25 AM

The 2600 already has its own built-in game genie. I discovered it for myself in the early 80’s and didn’t really have a name for it, but came to realize in the late 90’s that others apparently called it “frying”.

April 6

I also seem to remember the scorpion behaving that way. It might have to do with some detail we’re overlooking.

Maybe it only happens on certain screens, or in particular places, or while under a ladder, etc.

April 6

Back in 1998, when I finally obtained Berenstain Bears (Coleco) and River Patrol (TigerVision) both within a month or so of one another, I felt what you are describing here. Elation and satisfaction. I was finally “done” and had the complete collection.

…or so I thought…as it was short lived…

After awhile, I soon came to realize just how many of the “relatively unknown obscure limited elusive odd ball almost impossible to find controversial titles” were now being considered “legit and official”, and, my celebration was short lived as the second half of my quest began.

Yeah, it’s like that.

April 4

A quick 2 minute test before packing and shipping these out to a customer would have caught that.

March 16

I think another cool option (rather then a game) would be some kind of “bios” or “splash screen” (like say for example the ColecoVision has).

I’m sure 4K is enough space to put together a screen that has a main title that says “Atari 2600 VCS” in large fonts and multicolored and then below that some plain text like “please turn off power before inserting or removing a cartridge”

And then possibly a small display on the Left and Right sides with “up, down, left, right, fire, for testing the joysticks and the difficulty switches, b-w/color, select, and reset. (Like they could highlight when activated.

March 14

I think that the position on the board where you can solder in a rom chip was only ever present on the original 6 switch consoles.

Don’t think a JR will work.

February 26

1 hour ago, rietveld said:

I somewhat agree with you but I think the Intellivision version is right up there as far as game play goes.

And as a bonus it also includes the alien ship

All my childhood memories are with the 2600 version, but, I will never forget the day I saw the screenshot of the Intellivision version with the mother ship in the Imagic catalog.

I was salivating at it!

But, I was also furious that they had added something so hugely different to another consoles version that we didn’t get.

February 25

11 hours ago, Greg2600 said:

As for the electronic portion, I mean, I'm not sure what is required here? It's been said that John has released software in the past. In the case of Dan Kitchen's stuff, I just don't think John was aware of the need to release the rom. Why would he be?

In public posts that Kitchen has made here, as well as in conversation that I personally had with Kitchen at a past gaming convention, he was not restrictive in the LEAST with regards to what had and/or would become of that rom data. His position was “of course” at best and “indifferent” at most. But CERTAINLY not a “no”. He quite specifically wished for it to be shared and enjoyed by everyone. That’s why he donated to a museum. He assumed that it was the best way to ensure this.

Therefore, the “hold up” here, in this case, is NOT on Kitchen’s end, and certainly not a “legal” one either. Rather the holding pattern is 100% pure squarely on the museum’s end.

So, if what you say above is true, that the “museum” was simply just not aware, then hey, great, no problem. Consider this the moment when they have indeed been made aware. It doesn’t get any simpler or clearer then that.

February 24

On 2/20/2024 at 10:25 PM, CaptainBreakout said:

Does anyone know of an abundantly common 2600 game that uses a rom that can be desoldered and replaced with an EProm of Hobo? Or maybe a 4k cart for Spiders? It would be kinda cool to make myself a couple of carts for the game shelf.

Almost any common Atari 2600 game cartridge (say Pac-Man for example) could be used for a 4K game. You would need a 4K eprom, a 7404 hex inverter, and some minor wiring. But there is no plug & play with common cartridges. (some Apollo cartridges do have EPROMs which is much easier, but you have to know what to look for out there)

As for an 8K game, no way. No luck my friend. You will need to buy a blank Atari board from the AtariAge store and an eprom.

February 20

12 hours ago, TPR said:

EDIT: I went ahead and just deleted them. They really were for my own personal use anyway. Thanks guys. This is a reminder that I don't belong here and I'll just stick to the ColecoVision forum. Thanks. Bye.

In all sincerity, my apologies for razzing you. It was meant to be funny, so if you didn’t take it that way then I should have worded it more gracefully.

And I know it takes talent and a good imagination to create art. (I’m terrible at it!) And I have seen some of ColecoVision labels in that sub forum and they are excellent!

February 20

The reason why I’m being overly critical of both BSR and Atari in this scenario is because they have both proven through the years that they are incapable of making good decisions.

Some M-Network titles (Sword Fight, Sea Battle, Rocky & Bullwinkle) are out there while others (Anteater, Locomotion, Golden Skull) are not out there. And what difference does (did) it make? None whatsoever! BSR should have just released what they had long ago. Especially when you consider that other copies could always turn up at any moment anyway.

And even in a “perfect” scenario where Atari acquires these roms and decides to release them, take a guess what will happen.

Atari will “enhance” and “improve” and “update” these games for an “Atari +” market. And we don’t want that. We want the original unaltered 1984 rom data.

Same thing with Kitchen’s creations. By all means, make all the Circus Convoys and Gold Rushes that you want. But as a kind gesture to the very gaming community which supports & purchases these new creations, (as well as for the sake of historical preservation), release the original rom data. Allow it to be preserved and saved for eternity through the redundancy of public ownership; just as your released games (like Keystone Kapers and Crackpots) are safe for eternity.

February 20

3 hours ago, ubersaurus said:

(though now that Atari owns both the M-Network library and the Stern library, in theory they could reissue Anteater any time they want, and probably have more money to make some of the others possible too)

And so with the above, you indirectly bring up my next point of contention.

So, how exactly does Atari (who allegedly now “owns” the m-network library) go about releasing something that THEY DON’T EVEN HAVE?

In other words, the current “Atari” which has been bought and sold and chopped up into pieces and moved across the country, etc. doesn’t have so much as a file cabinet, or a hard drive, or a cartridge, (or any other copy) of say for example the Atari 2600 Anteater data. They simply DON’T have it. Period.

Yes, it happens to be in the hands of BSR, and we happen to know this, but Atari doesn’t know this. (it can’t even be proven for that matter!) And even if/when informed of this, so what?! What can they do? It’s NOT their property (physical or digital) Unless BSR SELLS it to Atari, (by their own choice) why should or would they give it to Atari? They aren’t compelled to do so by any means. (I’m no fan of BSR but in this example they certainly have rights)

The entire situation is laughable! Imagine an old man losing his watch at the beach in the 1980’s and some kid finds it 10 years later, hangs onto it for 30 years, and suddenly after 40 years, the old mans son comes out of nowhere and says: “oh yeah, that belonged to my father and you have to give it back.”

February 20

Not only that, all 3 labels you generated have c.1982 when they should have 1983.

come on man!

February 18

6 hours ago, Tempest said:

Apparently the Levee Game is just a one screen demo. It's not really a game that you can win.

Yes, whereby making the INSTANTANEOUS release of the rom of absolutely no consequence to the museum. As they still maintain the original and received it for free anyway.

One other point I’d like to make here (which subsequently paints these so called “museums” into an even darker light) is that they often receive these items as donations. (as was the case here, and twice in a row no less) And these museums are entities, consisting of multiple people, as opposed to an individual person. Where as an individual may have hunted down and acquired a rare game at a great personal loss and expense of time and money. We are quick to vilify these individuals as “rom hoarders”, with no regard given to their loss or sacrifice. Yet we are quick to defend these museums which are mostly “non profit” and whose acquisitions are funded by the very public (us) that supports them, or even worse from free donations?!

Look, I’m not trying to discredit or destroy all of these museums/websites whose founders and members function as modern historians or preservationists. But don’t call yourself a museum if you’re really just a repository. There is something inherently WRONG when getting a games rom freed from a “museum” is literally HARDER to accomplish than trying to get it freed from a rom hoarder! And trust me! It is! Because while items at a museum are “not for sale”, when it comes to individuals, money talks and bullshit walks.

February 17

35 minutes ago, Rom Hunter said:

So this raises the question: when is a game still called a prototype?

That’s a fair question.

We do use the term “proto” quite loosely. We say “alpha, beta, proto, dev, loaner, sample, test, etc.” all in the same context, yet they all describe a game at different stages.

But I think your question is more “when does a game program enter the stage where it is called a “prototype” and when does it pass from the “prototype” stage to the “final” stage; eventually becoming a “released” game.”

With regards to UA’s games one thing is certain. We have no evidence of them ever having been sold at a retail store and/or having been made available through a mail order offer; during the natural lifespan of the console. And that is the required criteria to be called a “released game”.

So are these games protos or finals? Not sure. But I am sure that fully dressed or not, they are NOT released games.

February 17

I think Cat Trax was their killer AP. Or at the very least, their flagship title, being a Pac-Man clone when Pac-Man was king. So it would make sense that it had more “production samples” then the rest of their product line and that it was also marketed through the multiplexer device as a “pack in” bonus title.

Again, there is a HUGE difference between finding 1 or even a small handful or so production quality samples of UA’s titles over the span of 40 years, versus dozens or hundreds of them surfacing.

And, I’ll go even further with this…

At this point in time, even if hundreds of cases of these games were or are someday found in some long forgotten warehouse someplace, it would still not elevate the status of these games to “released”. Rather it would be a scenario similar to Off your Rocker.

February 17

Not completely accurate there.

Keystone Kannonball a.k.a. Keystone Kapers 2 was supposed to be completed as Gold Rush and released after Circus Convoy.

Circus Convoy, while using some elements and similar mechanics from the Keystone proto, was not a sequel or follow up story.

Kitchen also stated that the rom for the Keystone 2 proto would be released after Gold Rush; neither of which happened.

(never mind Bon Voyage, which was also planned as a future title)

None of these things (other than Circus Convoy) happened. Getting a newly made Homebrew title is not the same thing as getting the rom of a proper time period unreleased proto. They’re not even in the same neighborhood. One of them is far more historically significant then the other.

February 17

While I do feel that this thread might have gotten just a bit too emotional over this, I analyzed all the major North American cartridge based home video game consoles and the thread starter is kind of right. It does indeed look like the 2600 kind of almost stands alone as the only major “failure” of proper label placement.

Here’s the breakdown:

SUCCESS / PASS

Channel F & Astrocade - connects horizontally but label is up and faces the player

Intellivision & Vectrex, cart port is on the side, but the player can see & read the label as it faces up.

Odyssey 2, ColecoVision, Atari 5200, Atari XEGS, Sega Master System, TurboGrafx 16, Sega Genesis, Super NES, Sega 32X, N64, Jaguar, NeoGeo, - label is upright & faces the player.

NES - model 1 completely encases the cartridge so it cannot be seen, BUT it does sit horizontally with the sticker up and if the door is left open, the end label can be read, so “technically” it is not a “failure”.

FAILURES:

Atari 2600 & 7800 - end labels can be seen but the main label is “technically” away and upside down. (7800 was merely copying 2600 so it’s only failure by association)

NES - model 2 and Sega Master System CARDS - label faces the player but is upside down. While also “technically” failures, the NES model 1 was not, and CARDS for the SMS were not its main media. (only 7 cards in the USA versus 107 carts.)

So the 2600 does kind of stand alone in this category.

February 17

I’m curious now as to just how much information we might have on UA Limited. Has anyone done a deep dive into researching them?

Do we know any former employees and/or programmers? I mean, if we can find just one person that worked with them or for them, then they should be able to shed some light on this decades long mystery.

I’m pretty sure if I worked at a company 40 years ago that let’s say made cookies. And we compiled recipes for 6 different varieties, designed 6 boxes with full color art, baked them, packaged them, prepared them for market, and then never sold a single cookie and just closed up shop and walked away…

…yeah I think it’s safe to say that I would remember that. I’d remember just how frustrated it left me and how much of a waste of time it would have been of a year or so of my life. It would be quite hard to forget that disappointment.

February 17

You’d be hard pressed finding a bigger fan of Montezuma’s Revenge than myself. And I consider the 2600 version to be among the top ten best 2600 carts.

Mind you, it’s nowhere near as long and detailed as the Coleco Vision version (my personal favorite version of the game) but it’s very well made and it has its charm.

Sad to hear it’s become a $50 cart, but not surprised considering it’s rarity and desirability.

I’m not much into Homebrew, so I can’t help you there. But regular cart wise, on 2600 your best options for “action/adventure platformer” category are: Pitfall, Jungle Hunt, Montezuma’s Revenge, Pitfall II, and HERO.

February 17

On 2/13/2024 at 3:53 AM, Rom Hunter said:

Many thanks for sharing these, Ianoid.

Do you know if Spiders and R2D Tank came in retail boxes as well?

Yes, a thousand thanks to Ianoid for these. And I’m also curious about the above question. (but assuming a yes because I have already seen pics of the sides of those boxes, so surely they exist.)

Also a side note to Rom & Tempest:

So are we supposed to just accept the fact that in 1983 UA Limited designed, programmed, and produced SIX Atari 2600 video games, all of them with fully dressed retail ready packaging, (cart shells, cart stickers, manuals, and boxes), even numbered them 1 through 6, but then for as of yet unknown reasons, decided not to release them and simply took the huge financial hit from it?

And before you say: “well perhaps they were officially released to retail market”, don’t forget to take into account the totally inconsistent factoid that only a tiny handful of these “retail samples” have surfaced in over 40 years since.

February 17

It fascinates me how this comparison is always used as the go-to point by those arguing it. And granted, on the surface, it seems logical to most people when they hear it.

But here’s the KEY point that gets overlooked and is always omitted from the comparison.

The one-of-a-kind paintings, pictures, records, music, films, videos, books, etc. at museums are all inspected, documented, and duplicated. Hell, the gift shops in the very museums themselves that display them literally sell copies, reprints, and reproductions of them!

So if/when someone wants to use the museum “example”, they need to take into account the FULL specifics of it. Because when you get down to it, it’s perfectly obvious how this would apply to a video game. Video games are “enjoyed” by PLAYING them. Video games are “controlled audio/visual media”. And as such, the museum serves their purpose by allowing them to be “enjoyed” by the public in that way!

Through these museums, the public can SEE these pictures and paintings, HEAR these symphonies and songs, READ these manuscripts and books, and PLAY these video games.

We (the public) aren’t asking to touch the original Mona Lisa, run the original Zapruder Film through a projector, handle Shakespeare’s handwritten poetry with our hands, etc. And by this same comparison, if the museum wants to place Kitchen’s original proto behind a 6 inch thick bullet proof glass display case surrounded by electric shock barriers, more power to them.

But just as we can buy a print of the Mona Lisa at the gift shop to hang on our walls or download a DVD/BluRay copy of the Zapruder Film, we should just as easily be able to get a ROM copy of Kitchen’s game to play at home.

So, to the point, NO, it is NOT our “God given right” to have instant and free access to the rom data of any and every video game ever made. In fact quite the opposite if you ask me. However, in this particular case, when the game in question was in the hands of an individual who PURPOSEFULLY and SPECIFICALLY donated it to the museum under good intentions for the public’s benefit and historical preservation, then YES, it is absolutely a scenario where the museum should provide the rom to the public and is in essence INSULTING our intelligence by not doing so.

February 16

Yeah, sounds great, so let’s do the math shall we?

So we are currently in February 2024 and have been waiting since July 2018 which was when he donated the previous proto cartridge to the museum.

Over 5 years later and guess what, we still don’t have the rom. And now here we go again.

Donating to that museum is equivalent to locking something up and throwing away the key. It’s completely pointless.

February 7

Good save! That Kangaroo might have slightly different color shades but it’s hard to tell.

February 6

Here are some facts and details that seem to have gotten lost or overlooked in the shuffle of the story having been covered on outside social media sites and spread across multiple threads.

1) This is not the first and only 2600 Tarzan proto to be found. Yes, the first with a dressed label (show sample) to be found, but not the first working rom.

2) Frank Cifaldi from the video game history foundation clearly stated that the rom file from another 2600 Tarzan proto has already been dumped and safeguarded. AND, the rom checksum seen on this latest proto cartridge matches the dumped rom.

3) The eBay auction had the cartridge at $10,000 or best offer. But it did NOT sell for 10K. It most likely fetched about half that, like $5K or less.

(I was one of the members here who was making the seller offers before the eBay listing went up. I dropped out at $4,200 and purposely chose not to continue pursuing it once I got wind of the rom file having already been preserved) (it made no sense)

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