Underball

and...it's over. Sony sent out an official press release about it today, and then they released THE KRAKEN - BANHAMMER style. Ban reports by the thousands are coming in hot around the various PSX forums.

This is the whole deal in a nutshell right here. But not everyone lives in an apartment. I own my home. I bought it. I can do what I like with it. If I want to replace the kitchen cabinets, or put in a new toilet - that's my prerogative. That's the advantage of ownership. I also own my PS3. If I want to hack it, I will. If want to rip it's guts out and make it a planter for Tulips - I will.

I bet you won't last 2 days before you start trolling my on-topic posts again.

Maybe you should just frequent a hackers forum? The threads about hacking on there would be right up your alley I'll bet. You're actually not allowed to start threads about hacking on AA, unless like Underball pointed out you just want to discuss hacking in general, which is what is being done, and that includes all sides of it. Just suck it up. Such an adult manner on this one. You just can't stop thinking/posting about me. I would say I'm flattered, but I'd be lying. You're creeping me out.

and this is where we part company, morally speaking. What Geohot and team FailOverFlow did was to release the information contained in the product you already own, publically, for free. You already own it. You're not stealing anything. Before this, there were already unscrupulous small-time tech companies SELLING the same jailbreak tools FOR PROFIT, in the form of a USB dongle. THAT is infringement. Simply reading the contents of a book is not infringement. Re-posting that book's contents, and charging readers for it without the owners/publisher's consent is infringement. This doesn't make what Geo, etc. did "right" per se, but what it did was take the THEFT for PROFIT angle out of the hacking scene, and gave it back to genuine hackers. and there is already legal precedence that backs up their actions: Look up the iPhone jailbreaking case Judge's determination. (hint: Apple didn't win, because the jailbreaking tools released weren't a for-profit venture)

See - now that would be truly odd. The music industry has moved to downloads, and a larger focus on Live Music/concert merchandise. Does this mean that Arcades might make a comeback? I'd love it. I miss the fact that there no longer is a higher tier of video gaming in the arcades that sets the standard by which all console games are made. but then, that's not really feasible with all these games that feature 25 minute FMV/animation intros and convoluted plotlines.

You and I both have tried to introduce this topic here, but unfortunately to little avail. I fear at least on this board - which is rife with "collectors" who place aged video game trinkets in hermetically sealed packages, and price-gouge the shit out of OCD people on a nostalgia kick with money to burn - that the idea of lobbying for a lower basic price point (and ultimately a lower investement value) for games will go unheard, or worse - scoffed at by those protecting their investments/side business market.

Cool thanks. Now, can you stop swearing and telling me I'm naive and that I'm trolling and that I'm attacking you personally and criticizing me and making incorrect assumptions and posting them as fact when I do it or is that too much to ask? Seriously though...and I already mentioned this, I'm not that upset. Sure. As soon as you stop posting naive opinions, that are discounted by several people, while countering every single post I make with veiled insults, and putting words in my mouth. You stop doing those things, and I'll stop asking you to stop doing those things. Ok? Although, no, I will not stop swearing. You're just going to have wash your eyes out with soap, or whatever.

Ok Still I'm just pointing out your "reason" for piracy existing aren't necessarily valid, I already know several people agree because they've told me, and really just the fact that the latest video games sell and are big business suggests many others would agree. Seem fair enough. Is it ok to speak my mind or is that something you personally have a HUGE issue with? I ask because for all the accusing you direct towards me, I'm personally attack you, I'm naive, I'm seething mad and need to breathe (a classic), I'm trolling ,etc... it really seems like you're the one with a problem when I add in my 2 cents. Go figure. Speak your mind all you want. You are entitled to your opinion, as am I, and everyone else here. Just don't put words in people's mouths, or try to make weak strawman arguments out of thin air to justify your opinion as if it were fact, that's all. You were clearly trying to indicate that myself and others here are condoning, or attempting to "justify" piracy. And only when you were called on it, did you relent. That, coupled with the fact that nearly every single one of your posts in this thread has been a direct (quoted) or indirect swipe at me is why I am making pointed opinions here about you. Go back and read it all again if you need to. Almost every single post you've made, barring a few that happened over the weekend while I was away from the internets, was a direct or at least related reaction to something I said a post or two earlier. You have strong opinions on the subject of piracy. That's fine. It is an important issue for today's avid gamer. It's when you automatically expect everyone to toe the line on your opinion, and try to belittle people who might view things from a slightly different viewpoint that people might take exception to your posts. It's one thing to do it in a sarcastic, joking manner. You don't seem too humorous here on this subject. You seem demonstrably upset about the effect of piracy and hacking on your gaming experience. That's kind of hard to really relate to for me, because it's just entertainment. I do it for fun. It's a tiny percentage of my life. Gaming is not going to go away for good just because some guys learned how to make homebrew, or copy a few games. It may make Sony paranoid enough to make usage stricter, but this has been going on for nearly 2 decades now in video gaming on most platforms, to varying degrees. If anything, the industry is larger and stronger now than it has ever been. I guess all I'm saying is just put down the gamepad for 10 minutes and look at the bigger picture. Sure, in the moment it might suck that your trophies or save games from MW2 (or whatever game) got fucked up by some asshole hacker or pirate. So what? That means you get to play through a great game all over again, right? And if it wasn't that great that you don't want to play through it again, then maybe it wasn't really worth $60 in the first place.

No gold cost a lot to buy, that was my point. All the examples I gave are produced by nature. Maybe there is cost obtaining the product, but like for instance honey (which can be pretty expensive, I paid $6.00 for a 4 oz jar because it was local honey and that's what I wanted, I'm not going to figure out what that would come to per gallon, but you can bet it's more than say...milk) bee's produce honey. I'm not being naive, that really is where honey comes from. Take caviar. I spent $6.99 for 2 oz at Kroger and it was good stuff. I spread on a thin layer of cream cheese and then a thin layer of caviar, if you haven't ever had it, you should try it. This past Christmas, I splurged and bought some caviar from a website that was $80 for 2oz, it was pretty good also, but honestly it wasn't so much better that I'd go out of my way for it. So are you telling me because of that I should just steal $80 caviar in the future? I don't think it's much better so that gives me the right to do what I want? No, I'll just buy the $6.99 caviar. potatohead called it, for every $60 game, there are a dozen more available for less. Most indie games are a buck. Look it doesn't matter how well thought out, written or long the response is. No one here is going to justify to me that they have the right to pirate the latest video games or that they are forced to pirate. We're aren't taking about something that you need to survive. If you were stealing because you needed say...food, maybe I'd see your point. As far as free cases of gold or caviar, just go take it, what do you care? You're the one trying to argue it's ok, not me. They EXIST in nature, in scarce quantites (except Honey). They are not "produced" by nature. As for their value to humans, the production costs to refine them into a viable product (trade-able gold, & packaged, edible caviar) are still extremely high. And you can read the posts above yours here again if you so choose to. I would suggest that you need to, as you have a tendency to put words into the mouths of people who aren't really out to get you. Not one single person in this thread has tried to "justify piracy" in any way, shape, or form. Not in any post. NONE. A number of people are discussing the fact that it DOES happen, and there are many ways to try and prevent it or at least limit it. You've just taken this simpletonesque black & white view that anyone who doesn't stamp their feet like a 4 year old in Toys R Us over "pirates is bads OKAY!!!" then they must be supporting piracy. You're just digging this hole deeper.

I honestly think the serial key makes a lot more sense than forcing people to log onto the PSN to use their games. It still won't eliminate piracy, it'll just annoy legitimate users.

I'm talking along the lines of Colony Wars/Wing Commander/Ace Combat... I downloaded the Top Gun demo from the PSN, but it was kind of underwhelming.

Like for instance caviar, honey or gold? Some things cost next to nothing to produce and still demand a high price. Sorry your argument holds no water. It's all about supply and demand. If a million people are willing to pay $60 for a new game who are you to say it's not worth it and if the price is what a person is concerned about, why can't they wait a few weeks till the price drops? You really are pretty naive, aren't you? Gold cost nothing to produce? Is your apartment lined in gold? I mean - it costs nothing right? As for your silly antagonistic "who are you to say" line - it's simple. I'm not saying that is what SHOULD be done. I'm offering it up as a suggestion to curb the piracy problem. It's an alternative to the current direction that clearly isn't working. You and a few others here are whining about piracy as if video game pirates are rapists and murderers. The Hyperbole is just plain ridiculous. But no one here is really advocating piracy at all. Not one single person in this thread is saying stealing games is good, or encouraging anyone to. So you're trying to create an "argument" with some pretty entertainingly emotional sentiment, out of thin air. The best way to fight piracy, is to give the pirates less reason to pirate games, Not more. Adding DRM, updating firmware with security patches, etc. - the hackers and pirates view this as a new challenge. Hacking is less about stealing, and more about figuring out how something works. It's about learning, and Hacking and Piracy aren't necessarily cohabitants. Sure, some hackers are pirates. Some Catholic Priests rape kids. Some people collect workers compensation when they aren't injured. Some people do shady shit, because they can get away with it. but you'll have a hard time proving Hackers = Pirates to anyone with half a brain in their head. but hey - if you come across some free gold, or a case of caviar lying around - let me know.

Any one of billions of people in the entire world can go to a movie (the requirement is that they get to a theater). The number of people that own a PS3 is just in the millions. Billions to millions. I don't think the earning potential is the same. To me if $60 is too much for a person to invest on their hobby and they have to resort to illegal activity then maybe a person could just find a different hobby? Or how about wait a few months until they can pick up that $60 game for like $20 maybe. Your average Hollywood HIT movie grosses $250 Million domestic in it's total run. At $10 a ticket, that's 25 million people, assuming no one sees it more than once. There are 47 million PS3 owners in the US. If a PS3 game makes $250,000,000 - that means it sold 4,000,000 units. Roughly 10% of the install base. 600% more profit, even though the production costs are lower. I'm not saying this as any sort of justification for piracy. It's just simple economics. Something that cost less to produce, should cost less to buy. the fact taht it doesn't unnecessarily excludes a good portion of the potential market. I just believe that if video game prices in general were in line with movie sales, even DVD prices at $15-$20 each - piracy would go way down, and sales would go way up.

It costs less to produce a PS3 game than your average Hollywood movie. Yet games are still $60 and movies are $10. There would be a lot less piracy if the consumer costs were in line with their entertainment industry competitors.

While new firmware has temporarily stopped hackers since it came out, (really it's only 'stopped' them since last night) I don't believe there's anybody who thinks 3.56 will protect ps3 forever. Worst comes to worst, now that working custom firmware is out, I guess hackers could open the system up and write the chip with a cable. I don't think it will come to that though. If this becomes a cycle, I start to wonder how many firmware updates our ps3's have in them before something goes wrong. It seems to get a few honest users every time and customers, of course, assume all risks for mandatory firmware updates. The PSP has been hacked and constantly updated since 2007. It's 2011, and the system is more popular now, and selling better than it ever did. It's on firmware version 6.35 or something like that. And like I pointed out earlier - this has happened with every firmware update since the PS3 was hacked initially. The Proxy Server and DNS hacks that allowed PS3 hacker to get access to the PSN only last about a week or so after a new firmware update arrives. Hackers went something like 7 MONTHS with no PSN access in between the 3.41 hacks closed PSN access, and the 3.55 hack. All told, PS3 hackers have had less than a month's worth of PSN access from their hacked consoles during the entire year, the rest of the year, the hole was plugged.

You posted the above, but Joystiq posted today: "Gameloft's Modern Combat: Domination draws some heavy inspiration from another big FPS franchise. And ironically, it's facing the same problem as its higher-profile counterpart. Available exclusively via the PSN, Modern Combat has been struggling against cheats and hacks almost immediately since its release -- "a result of the PS3 jailbreak situation," a Gameloft representative told us. A YouTube video demonstrates how the game "is going to get f***d hard," as the poster describes it. Cheaters are able to enable a few tricks, including smokeless smoke grenades, bullet tracing, the ability to walk through walls and even "God Mode." A new patch, coming in a few weeks, will attempt to rectify the situation by implementing "anti-hacking protection," in addition to other tweaks. "We are confident this fix will eliminate hacking and add to the player experience on Modern Combat: Domination," the rep added. "The anti-hacking pretty much means that people using a modified code (including cheaters) won't be able to access the game." So, if firmware 3.56 plugged the holes on the PS3 and sent all the hacker's fleeing, why does GameLoft have to develop a anti-hacking patch that they hope to release in a few weeks? And your sarcasm regarding "Modern Warfare junkies", whether joking or not, isn't appreciated. Mendon Because Joystiq is probably 2 weeks behind the ball with publishing that article on what's actually going on with the PSN? I wasn't being sarcastic. That's one of the reasons I'm not a big fan of online gaming. The only thing worse than the hordes of screaming 13 year olds, swearing their heads off online and acting like tough guy wanna-be gangstas, are the sad, lonely, 40 year old couch potatoes who spend 9 hours every night playing online games, who are practically at the brink of suicide if you fuck with their only source of socialization. It's been this way since the early days of Quake III Arena. It clearly doesn't apply to you. You seem like a pretty reasonable, intelligent guy. But whether or not you'll admit it - you know exactly what I'm talking about. A good deal of hardcore online gamers demonstrate the worst human behaviors.

All the holes have been plugged. Proxy Servers and DNS tricks no longer work to gain access to the PSN. PS3 hackers can no longer play online games without updating to 3.56 and rendering all their hacks useless. (and if they're stupid and try to update straight to 3.56 from CFW - they will brick their PS3) And this is the way it has been with EVERY PS3 hack since the beginning. After a new firmware is released, there's about a 10-12 day window where the hackers can get online using proxy hacks. Then Sony shuts the door on them. Never fails. So all you Modern Warfare 2 junkies can go back to talking trash over your headsets, and antagonizing 13 year old kids from the comfort of your couch with your L33t Sk177zz, without having to fear whether the big mean cheater pirates will ruin your whole life. .

It's bananas. Normally on eBay, or even on here you can find a 7800 console with 10-15 games for like $30-$40 + shipping. There's no way the other 85 or so games in that lot are worth $350. $250 for the whole thing, console included, maybe. And that's if you find someone who really wants to overpay for a couple of "rarity 5" games that might get $10 on ebay by themselves and ashit-ton of games that won't even sell for $.99 most days. It's a nice lot if you don't have anything and want an insta-collection. But these rarely sell as is, and are much better off being broken up.

$400 for a $30 console and a box of 100 commons. Fair? Also - this belongs in the marketplace.

I personally wouldn't "STUCK", but I know lots of people I consider friends here on AA, and I also know their opinions and thoughts in regards to physical media, DLC etc.. mainly that they dislike it immensely and yes some are posting in this thread. If you're still not convinced, and insist on telling me what I think, here was a post I made in regards to a streaming DLC only system in this very thread: Please don't bitch in the future when all games are DLC and all consoles are streaming. Most folks here won't,we just like enjoying the latest and greatest. I would be one included in that "we" Also I'm breathing fine bro. Just trying to explain to you that what you think is going on...isn't. I'm glad you've decided you have the authority to speak for the vast majority here. that takes some serious balls. I think the larger point you're missing here is that this thread was a pretty amicable, adult discussion of what's going on with the hacks - for better or worse - of the PS3. I say "was" because it was, until you showed up with all your exaggerations and finger pointing and general temper tantrum histrionics towards anyone you decided to disagree with ahead of time. All of that really wasn't warranted or needed. You need to calm down and stop overreacting.

Right Underball, sometimes you make smaller posts which get read before I realize who is posting. Slow down. Breathe. It's gonna be okay, really.

It doesn't bother me personally Underball. I'm fine with it. Like I stated earlier. I can run emulators on about a half dozen other platforms. Answer your question? Then why do you keep phrasing your lament of DLC as a negative connotation? How would you be "STUCK" with it? I would think you would be cheering for it. Clearly you're not. Being Stuck with something isn't a desirable position.

Ignoring all of your continued personal attacks, please answer this one you ignored from earlier: If you're completely happy with paying full price for games, and you really just want pirates and hackers to stop what they are doing, then how would you be "STUCK" (i.e. this being a negative connotation) with streaming consoles and DRM? Isn't this EXACTLY what you want? You keep contradicting yourself. Either you want to ban hackers and pirates, or you don't. If DLC and/or DRM is the answer to that, and you really are paying full price for your games as you already claimed, - then why does the prospect of DLC only bother you? You should be elated that hackers and piracy will go away with that solution.