Any chance of an Amiga subforum?

[Any chance of an Amiga subforum?]

Indeed but the topic is about whether we should add an Amiga subforum.

 

If you would have said you feel we shouldn't create a subforum because the Amiga really was not funded by Atari then it would have been just a little more on topic.

 

I'm pretty sure most people involved here would rather not this topic devolve into 78 pages worth of subject that is not even remotely related except in vague specifics.

 

it doesnt make sense to come with that to me and not anyone else who was offtopic long before I've posted. so stop being offtopic I dont care wether there will be or not amiga subforums here.

[Atari2600 vs Atari800 vs Amiga1000]

Oswald,

 

This is the same thing you posted in the Atari v Commodore thread and it still isn't valid. If you could only choose between the 2600 and the Channel F, you'd be crazy to take the Channel F. And PacMan is still a worst-case example of 2600 programming.

 

sorry chanel f was cheaper & had video ram unlike the "revolutionary" 2600. I dont see why would anyone think the 2600 is better. also pacman technically is impossible without flicker on the 2600 hence no vram. only 2 "sprites" "playfield", etc.

[Any chance of an Amiga subforum?]

Also, while the AMIGA hardware was originally an ATARI funded project,

 

no it wasnt.

 

And this has what to do with the original topic question?

 

its about the same computer. but I think you can guess that alone.

[Atari2600 vs Atari800 vs Amiga1000]

VCS:

Atari 2600 is so simple but nothing was able to compete with it.

 

the fairchild chanel f which came at the same time was actually cheaper, and could display gfx without having to "handfeed" the gfx with the cpu....

 

128 colors.

Two chanell sound.

Is it perfect? I think yes (but unfortunatelly not for me as there is no keyboard - game system was never enough for me).

 

perfect? in what sense? look at the fairchild, can do pacman without that flickering madness.

[Any chance of an Amiga subforum?]

Also, while the AMIGA hardware was originally an ATARI funded project,

 

no it wasnt.

[Atari v Commodore]

>Can the Atari even display this? The sprites are high res. It's no point having 'some commands' to move up and down if you cant reproduce the original.

 

Is it a static image or are the bubbles or something else moving?

 

bubbles and the colors in some of the color splits are moving.

 

http://noname.c64.org/csdb/release/?id=96

[Atari v Commodore]

You need to check the interval at which they are doing horizontal splitting. Even if you have a stable enough raster and set up your IRQ, your interval for splits will be at a lower resolution. That's what I meant by accuracy. On Atari in most modes (except lines where char data is fetched), you can set up split basically at every other CPU clock

 

just every other? c64 can do it on every cpu clock. what made you think it cant ? there are demoparts which are only changing backgr color, doing scrollers, chessboards, etc.

 

>check any scrolling game with hires pixels ?! how hard is that ? turrican has that fex.

Don't have any to check out. I am doubting that pixels can retain their color at 1/320 pixel accuracy given NTSC standard.

 

given atari standard I'd say.

[Atari v Commodore]

With some C64 bias I guess?

 

DotC is another example where the "unused" benifits of the A8 were...

 

Just 2 conversons. But the title is already not reachable for the C64. With some palette rolling, the screen would look similar to the 16 bit pendants with the metallic shine.

 

A sad thing that they missed to create such games on the A8. They would have been pearls of their time. Even in a "pre C64 time"....

 

 

ammazgin really. a8 can do a better picture than something that was done 20 years ago for the c64

[Atari v Commodore]

On PAL Atari you will have different colors even if you shift the pattern 2 hires pixels because of the 16/10 instead of 16/8 color carrier vs pixel ratio.

 

so atari has problem with displaying color in 320x resolutions?

[Atari v Commodore]

Sprite overlays and interrupts are there on the C64 although not as accurate to do horizontal split windows.

 

I wonder then how is this possible, with multiplexed moving sprites (see below). remember every time a sprite changes Y coord the timing changes, and here we have quite some of them, with horizontal split windows, and this is just one example of dozens of routines like this.

 

 

Can you move the whole thing up and down without any distorsions?

 

On the Atari it takes "some commands"...

 

on the c64 it takes also "some commands"

[Atari v Commodore]

So now we're comparing C64 to Amiga?

 

(Waits for the Altair 8800 vs. P4 discussion.......)

Thats what oswald means about Turrican on C64 being 16bit graphics...

 

sorry you're mixing me up with emkay. I've never said the c64 can do 16bit gfx. or feel free to prove me wrong with a quote and url to the post.

please reread your posts :roll:

 

I've never said the c64 can do 16bit gfx. feel free to prove me wrong with a quote and url to the post.

Re Read your posts... Oswalds are lazy..

 

I've never said the c64 can do 16bit gfx. feel free to prove me wrong with a quote and url to the post.

[Atari v Commodore]

Sprite overlays and interrupts are there on the C64 although not as accurate to do horizontal split windows.

 

I wonder then how is this possible, with multiplexed moving sprites (see below). remember every time a sprite changes Y coord the timing changes, and here we have quite some of them, with horizontal split windows, and this is just one example of dozens of routines like this.

 

 

 

 

On the first blank vertical line, Atari shows correct color but on the next one, it does not show same color although it should. Now show me C64 code that does the above but also shows the same color consistently.

 

check any scrolling game with hires pixels ?! how hard is that ? turrican has that fex.

[Atari v Commodore]

stunt car would be cool!!

Yea I think it could be done nicely on the A8. Was SCR really that popular to play on any platform or as a nice 3D example to marvel over?

 

I was checking out the new Protovision game nearing completion the other day.. Enforcer II. It's looking impresive.

 

SCR was very very playable, with a lot of replay value. you actually have to learn the tracks, and when you won them all, you get a 2x faster car with the same tracks, but you have to re learn the tracks because the opponent is much faster, and things with the 2x faster car is totally different even with the slow frame rate the controls feel tight and responsive, I could go on forever

[Atari v Commodore]

It's a well timed list actually.. I can tell you that some of these games you've listed will soon be ticked off the list of unavailable for the A8

Bard's Tale, Wasteland, Stunt Car Racer, Elite?

 

(Are on my 1:1 portable list...)

 

CU

Irgendwer

 

stunt car would be cool!! tho the c64 version uses a trick to speed up the filling with color attributes, but I'm "afraid" it wont stop the a8 getting the whole thing faster

[Atari v Commodore]

So now we're comparing C64 to Amiga?

 

(Waits for the Altair 8800 vs. P4 discussion.......)

Thats what oswald means about Turrican on C64 being 16bit graphics...

 

sorry you're mixing me up with emkay. I've never said the c64 can do 16bit gfx. or feel free to prove me wrong with a quote and url to the post.

please reread your posts :roll:

 

I've never said the c64 can do 16bit gfx. feel free to prove me wrong with a quote and url to the post.

[Atari v Commodore]

a lot. I remember someone telling me that a game exists where you can fight battles, take castles with catapults, recruit army, go jousting, etc. I didnt believe him that such a game exists. then I got dotc

 

 

Well,

taking only what someone said (e.g. adverts for a commercial game), and not testing it yourself, then the german commercial game "Adalmar" must be a great DotC clone:

 

...

 

Saying "I never play / test the games, I only watch the videos..." is like "I never have sex, I only watch porn videos..."

-Andreas Koch.

 

 

1. about 20 years ago someone told me about a c64 game. and now 20 years later someone blames me, because I didnt had the game right away to test at home. you must be joking.

 

2. I not only I havent played many a8 games. I havent written an opinion here about any of those. I hope a secret cult doesnt exists which forbids not to play a8 games...

[Atari v Commodore]

well, no loss in audio quality in most ports I guess, the amiga msx of DOTC was horrible.

[Atari v Commodore]

I still have a problem with the statement that DotC is any better on the C64.

 

 

http://www.mobygames.com/game/amiga/defend...own/screenshots

 

http://www.mobygames.com/game/c64/defender...own/screenshots

 

You can't see it on screenshots, but it is more fun to play

 

What fun could be when you have to wait minutes between everything happens.

 

a lot. I remember someone telling me that a game exists where you can fight battles, take castles with catapults, recruit army, go jousting, etc. I didnt believe him that such a game exists. then I got dotc

[Atari v Commodore]

I always thought Apple was successful purely by luck, they chose to sell a way overpriced low performance machine to Schools and actually got them to buy them. How they marketed and the terms they gave them,plus the reeducation of the students and faculties were the actual keys to Apples success.Inother words.. right place,right time. How else could you sell such and overpriced inferior product. Even Atari turned them down, as they has a bteer machine in the pipe. ( though Al Alcorn helped Jobs get financing) dumb move.

The difference was that they were truly fanatical about their product. I don't think Atari was planning to release a personal computer at all until after they saw the success Apple was having.

 

imho the difference was that apple could be expanded and many 3rd party stuff was available. the key was visicalc, and add the backward compatibility aswell.

[Atari v Commodore]

So now we're comparing C64 to Amiga?

 

(Waits for the Altair 8800 vs. P4 discussion.......)

Thats what oswald means about Turrican on C64 being 16bit graphics...

 

sorry you're mixing me up with emkay. I've never said the c64 can do 16bit gfx. or feel free to prove me wrong with a quote and url to the post.

[Atari v Commodore]

So now we're comparing C64 to Amiga?

 

looks like the a8 HW is not strong enough for the fight, so some of the guys started comparing c64 to amiga

[Atari v Commodore]

Actually most of those machine are in the scrapyard by now, I see them all the time.

 

c64 or atari ? you must be spending a lot of time in scrapyards.

[Atari v Commodore]

Not to mention about the jousting, where you even don't get what the game actually wants in the C64 version...

 

huh?

[Atari v Commodore]

Here's the known list of A8 hardware designers:

 

 

Thanks, interesting stuff. is there any info on why they sliced the gfx chip into two ?

[Atari v Commodore]

Likewise the fact that Ballbalzer and Rescue on Fractalus blew my mind and I see no other versions even remotely comparable does not make you think the same way...

 

these games are all faster on the a8 (comparing to c64 now) we think the same way here, but that doesn means they are not even remotely comparable to the c64 or other counterparts. you are overexaggerating here.