Trebor

One last thing!!! Nabuko78 released which appears to be the best 5200/7800 color palatte yet. It changes hues beautifully across games in a way which best represents what the actual console displays for those same games. For instance, Ms. Pac-Man (original release), both maze and ghost monster colors are the closest to the actual console than any other palette previously. However, respecting Pac-Man Collection, the leftmost ghost monster's color does not change. It remains that greenish color instead of the more blue hue it should display. Here is some screenshots of Ms. Pac-Man inside Prosystem Emulator which hopefully makes clear what I am stating. First, here are screenshots of both Ms. Pac-Man original release and then in Pac-Man Collection with the default color palette found in Atari 7800 emulators (Including the ProSystem and MESS emulators): Second, here are screenshots of both Ms. Pac-Man original release and then in Pac-Man Collection with Nabuko78's color palette: Take note of which screenshot best represents how Ms. Pac-Man look on an actual 7800 playing Ms. Pac-Man. IMHO, Ms. Pac-Man original release with Nabuko78's palette indeed is the best. On the other hand, the maze color difference is definitely what is intended, and I actually prefer PacManPlus' color/hue choice. However, the leftmost ghost monster color should be more blue than green, no? If the leftmost ghost mosnter's color is purposely set that way, then I completely respect that decision. I'm just trying to help. Hope this post makes sense and is of some assistance. -Trebor P.S. See here for Nabuko's incredible palette: http://www.atariage.com/forums/index.php?s...t&p=1174461

Thank you, Nabuko78! I'm always interested in trying to get more accurate colors in the emulators. Michael Thank you, indeed! Wow...This has to be the best palette to date for the 7800. Awesome job, Nabuko78! Now, if this could only make its way into MESS... -Trebor

Can you or anyone else repeatably get this to happen? Did he fall past the bottom and reappear at the top, or fell part way? Thanks, Ken Using MESS 0.109 I was unable to reproduce this issue. It never occurred for me. -Trebor

Perfect! Thanks, Atariboy2600. -Trebor

The *BEST* NES Emulator received another update: Version 1.35 released. What's new: Shell Additions: Memory pool select for sound buffers. Famicom and NES four player adapter select in menu. More cartridge info in image file dialog. Shell Changes: Better sound synchronization. Launcher fixes and improvements. Workaround for bugs in E-MU sound drivers. Workaround for bug in ::D3DXSaveSurfaceToFile() using D3DXIFF_BMP. MBC strings now passed in netplay chat. Aspect ratio option now preserved on ALT+S in fullscreen mode. VSync now disabled by default. Shell Fixes: Settings for compressed palette and FDS BIOS files now properly saved on exit. AVISTREAMINFO::fccHandler. Relative paths in Paths dialog. Core Additions: Preliminary support for NES 2.0 file headers. R.O.B / Famicom Robot peripheral support. Mapper 14, 196, 214 and 169 (partially). Info from Ca4He3. Mapper 171 (KAISER KS7058) for "Tui Do Woo Ma Jeung". Mapper 172 (IDEA-TEK CNROM +SECURITY) for "1991 Du Ma Racing" (unaltered version). Database entries. Core Changes: PAL APU noise channel rates and frame sequencer steps. Info from Blargg. Emphasis color calculations on user palettes. Better board type detection for several mappers, particulary 1 and 4. Board names. Info from Pongbashi. Removed worthless mapper 100. Refactoring. Core Fixes: Mapper 12 to use MMC3A revision. Fixes "Dragon Ball Z 5". Mapper 15, 147 and 222. Info from CaH4e3. Mapper 99, PRG-ROM bank switching. Fixes "VS Gumshoe". Mapper 115 and moved "Bao Qing Tian" to it. Mapper 156. Fixes "Ko Ko Eo Deu Ben Ce" and "Metal Force". Mapper 163. Info from CaH4e3 and tpu. Mapper 230. Fixes "Contra" in "22-in-1". Mapper 232. Fixes the Quattro games. Right mouse button for light gun firing off-screen. Minor sound volume control bug. AbsX 3-byte NOP instruction timing. Database entries. http://nestopia.sourceforge.net/ -Trebor

Yeah...but still using the less accurate color screenshots for Hangly Man and Pac-Man Plus Last time, I will mention it...honest. Any chance you'll update the screenshots with the ones I posted before? Here's the link to the post I made earlier: http://www.atariage.com/forums/index.php?s...5298&st=105 -Trebor

Any screenshots you need just ask...lol. [Mushy Mode On/]It never ceases to amaze me the amount of talent shown amoung everyone involved. Whether it is the art by you Atariboy, and/or Bob's fantastic hacking (It still doesn't sound right - This is *so* beyond just "hacking"). But then it goes to the next level by you sharing your talents and abilities with the community so freely, and also welcoming suggestions and opinons. I know it speaks volumes too for the community; but it's the talent that is displayed that really makes these boards and community so exciting, fun and interesting... ...I really can not thank everyone enough[/Mushy Mode Off]. -Trebor

I understand completely. I was just trying to help show the differences between the less accurate default palette and the better external one. I did notice in the latest box preview/update you are still using the less accurate screenshots for Pac-Man Plus and Hangly Man. I attached the better updated screenshots in a prior posting as PNG files (Similar to the ones you are using with the better palette shots for Pac-Man and Ms. Pac-man). See this post: http://www.atariage.com/forums/index.php?s...t&p=1164383 Do you need them in a different format now? -Trebor

Hi Atariboy2600, Not trying to be a "stickler" but those screenshots for Hangly Man and Pac-Man Plus are using the less accurate palette colors (Very noticable on the 'left most' ghost monster). Compare it with the palette in the Pac-Man and Ms. Pac-Man shots and you will notice the difference. [RANT ON\]The emulators MESS and ProSystem use a default palette with colors/hues that can be much more accurate then what is currently produced by default. Thankfully, ProSystem enables the importing of external palettes. Utilizing the Stella palette you obtain much more accurate colors for Atari 7800 emulator (aka The palette used for the screenshots I posted). Compare the colors against the real thing running on an actual TV and the difference really stands out. For a real eye opener try the opening screen in Xenophobe and notice the "purple skinned" women in the title screen. Using the Stella palette you obtain the true colors. [/RANT OFF] Xenophobe - Default palette for MESS/ProSystem: Xenophobe - Stella palette: And with my attempts to get this post back on-track notice the difference (Again especially the left most ghost monster) in Ms. Pac-Man with Bob's Pac-Man Plus Collection: Ms. Pac-Man - Collection Port - Default MESS/Prosystem palette: Ms. Pac Man - Collection Port - Stella Palette: -Trebor

Hey Atariboy2600...While you're switching the correct game titles for Hangly Man and Pac-Man Plus, might as well update those screenshots too Pac-Man Plus: Hangly Man: -Trebor

No problem. I'm glad I could contribute something. BTW, and I should have mentioned this earlier, the boxes do look fantastic. Sorry, about not giving the commendation earlier; I've been on a real trip lately with obtaining accurate colors for Atari 7800 emulation...lol. Anyhow, I would presume Bob will probably like the blue/black box over the grey, seeing his cart preference choice Regardless, everything looks SWEET! Boxes, carts, and especially the game itself. I absolutely LOVE the Random Maze option. Talk about never a dull or predictable challenge of Pac-Man. Throw in the fact you can play Random Maze in Plus mode just sweetens the pot even more. Thanks to Bob for this fantastic job with this "hack" [Description doesn't fit this job - It really is awesome].

Hmmm...Screenshot colors appear inaccurate, here's a better capture IMHO: Update: It also appears the screenshots you are using are from the other(older) Pac-Man/Ms. Pac-Man releases, and not from the Pac-Man Collection (The ghosts/mazes are from the old(er) versions). -Trebor

How are these :-) I really need to get better at this game...lol. Unfortunately, I did not get very far. -Trebor

The MESS license allows for changes to be made to the source "officially" or otherwise. I believe the only key requirement is to include the source file changes of anything you may modify as well. For an "official" change (IE To be included into the "official" distribution), you may want to post a message on the MESS message board here: http://www.bannister.org/forums/ubbthreads...rd=1&page=1 However, it cannot hurt to post changes here as "unofficial" as well. -Trebor P.S. And like SeaGtGruff said, thank you for all the research and work. Hopefully, we will see some changes after all to the palettes for the better.

Nope. You have not done a thing wrong. Unfortunately, it is a bug/issue with the emulator. If you close and restart the emulator, or load a new rom, it returns back to the default (internal) palette. The above is another reason why I wish MESS was updated to the better palette (Or of course, it would be great if the ProSystem emulator was updated). There are a couple of other 'minor' issues withe the ProSystem emulator besides the palette issue(s). Hopefully, those items too will be corrected one day. -Trebor

I posted one different pic (Xenophobe) in the MIA thread. Additionally, I'll post before and after pics here for Xenophobe and some others. First, the current default palette in MESS and then hoe a closer palette would look (Actual snaps are taking from the ProSystem emulator. However, it's default palette is the same as MESS and it allows for using an external palette): Hmmm...A GREEN Ghost in Ms. Pac-Man??? Ahhh...now this is more like it: Attack of the purple Double Dragons: And how Double Dragon *should* look: Looks like Scrapyard Dog is a little sickly green: And how a really sky background should look: Donkey Kong Pinky: And how it is suppose to look: Uh-Oh attack of the purple people again: Once more the intended displayed: Pastel buildings and a purple truck in Rampage??? Once again, this is how it should be: Here's to hoping someone with the talent and ability is able to update MESS some day -Trebor

http://www.mess.org/download.html Contains both binary and source files. In the latest version (0.109) look inside: '\mess\systems\a7800.c' It contains Hex Bit addresses and "color" labels of the hues/tints currently used for the Atari 7800. Regards, Trebor

Cool. Finally I can get rid of the purple girl from my 7800 Xenophobe review! Thanks! Yes, this: Does look a *heck* of a lot better. I wish I had the talents and understanding to incorporate this palette into MESS. -Trebor Xenophobe.bmp

Sounds like I'll have to go back and retake some Atari 7800 screenshots--most of those were taken in early 2001 before AtariAge was launched. I wonder how many of them may be inaccurate (hopefully not too many).. ..Al Al, If you take the screenshots in MESS they will still look the same. The color palette has not changed in MESS for the Atari 7800 since it was added as a playable supported system. If you want colors that come closer to what an actual Atari 7800 produces, you could try what I did. Use the Prosystem emulator. First load a rom, then import a palette, and finally take the screenshot. The Prosystem emulator supports external palettes with the catch that it resorts back to the internal palette (Which appears to be the same as MESS), once a rom is loaded. Hence, the instructions to load a rom first, then import the palette. The palette I use is the one taking from Stella. A much closer representation of what the Atari 7800 displays in terms of hues/tints. I'm attaching it to this post. -Trebor new_stella_NTSC.zip

Agreed. IMHO, the C64 port is also great (On par, if not better than the ColecoVision version). C64 version here: http://almighty.c64.org/games4.html ColecoVision here: http://www.theoldcomputer.com/Libarary'...mes_summary.htm -Trebor

Thanks for the update, Brian. I'm looking forward to the next release! -Trebor

Agreed. How about an emulator that has "Simulate Analog", Analog "Sensitivity", & "Deadzone" settings for the controller you are utilizing - would that cover what is needed? -Trebor

"Discovered" them when they were 40 cents a piece...One of the best deals ever! Too bad I only bought one copy of every game (Both 2600 & 7800 titles). -Trebor

The BEST NES Emulator has received a new release... http://nestopia.sourceforge.net/ September 10 2006 Version 1.34 released. What's new: Shell Changes: Better method for CPU/GPU frame synchronization. Disabled when triple buffering is enabled. Suitable default settings for auto frame skip, triple buffering and clock source based on system info. Blargg's nes_ntsc back again with new version 0.2.1. AVISTREAMINFO::szName no longer used since its presence seem to cause loading failures in some AVI file editors. Shell Fixes: Frame timing bug. Could cause severe slowdown on some systems. Wrong speed at higher refresh rates. Non-blocking input key commands. Core Fixes: "Quattro Sports: BMX Simulator" now responds to input again. Language pack has also been updated with Chinese translations by nhlay (traditional) and Yoyo (simplified). -Trebor

Wow...too bad this project did not make it out of the gate. However, I believe even if it did see the light of day, it was(is) a *really* bad decision to offer RF Output only. At least, composite output should have been integrated in this day and age. RF Output was okay in 1986 (But even then NES had composite offerings). In the year 2006, RF Output only seems very outdated and hurtful to the sales of this console (Especially with a projected 200,000 trying to sell). This console appeared to be targeted beyond just the hardcore classic/Atari gamer crowd only. -Trebor