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Schmudde

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Posts posted by Schmudde

  1.  

    It's always worked for Apple...

     

    Of course, Apple struggled in the mid-to-late 80s with premium products - the Lisa and the Macintosh. The Macintosh didn't gain any traction until after Jobs was gone and the company released a more diverse product lineup with different price tiers.

     

    Jobs' second tenure started to gain steam with the release of the iMac. It didn't turn around market share but it did stop the bleeding. You're right, the iMac did have a premium design flair to it, but $1299 (including monitor) was in the ballpark of your typical Best Buy PC. The machine had some great features, even if you had to buy a floppy drive separately.

     

    3DO wasn't even in the ballpark. Neo Geo already demonstrated that video game luxury won't move a lot of units but I think their model was much different. If you want to build a software platform, the luxury proposition is a dicey one at best.

     

  2. Interesting, I've never heard that before. If it's true, that's gotta be one of the biggest mistakes in video gaming history.

     

     

    People react to pricing in weird and paradoxical ways, so Hawkins might not have been completely nuts to aim high since there's some precedent for success via inflated pricing.

     

    In particular, I remember hearing that BMW (I think it was them) massively increased their sales in the United States when they doubled their prices and repositioned themselves as a luxury brand, even though the car itself was the same.

     

    Well, I'm with Madman here - if it's true, it's an unforgivable blunder. It's particularly shocking if it's coming from Hawkins' view. He was a veteran of the industry.

     

    Bringing this back to the Jaguar and Atari Corp: I don't believe the comparison to BMW is apt. Building a platform is much different than manufacturing a car. Jack Tramiel gets a lot of heat from Atari users, but he built the brand's most successful platform outside of the 2600 - the Atari ST (with the Atari 400/800 seeing similar worldwide numbers). Before Atari, he also built a platform larger than most any in the software/hardware industry - the Commodore 64.

     

    Building a platform requires a special sweet spot that attracts major software support. Trading off low software sales numbers in an attempt to corner a non-existent luxury market would be a surprising move by someone of Trip Hawkins' stature. For all of 3DO's flaws, its software success has to be largely attributed to Trip Hawkins' force in the industry. But that can only be sustained so long. Eventually you have to move volume to continue software support. That's a truism that was established well before the 1990s.

     

    And Bill, I'm not doubting you. I've simply long-attributed 3DO's high price tag to to the necessity of their business model - not a grab at a market segment or a way to pump up profits early on.

     

  3. Hello all,

     

    I'm getting back into ST MIDI sequencing after a decade (or two?!?) away. The ST software is just so uniquely brilliant and in many cases, there is absolutely nothing like it on the market today.

     

    I was wondering if there is a good resource for ST manuals. I can find some on Tim's Atari MIDI World, but I'm hoping there is a larger resource.

     

  4.  

    I don't recall. All I remember are the steady price drops after launch and then the eventual price of $99 when it was on the way out. Anyway, the point is, we know they didn't have to release at $700 to be profitable. That was just an attempt to position it as a high end media component (which we know NEVER worked for anyone who has attempted it). I'd love to know what the lowest price they could have released at while still having a reasonable profit per machine, keeping in mind that this was not quite like the traditional console model where there was a single console manufacturer that could sell their console at a loss and make it up from percentages of software sales.

     

    I have never read this about the 3DO's artificially high launch price. Was this part of Trip Hawkin's strategy or was it forced upon the platform by the manufacturers? It seems like a tremendous blunder.

     

    The model was already a risky departure from tradition. Ignoring the countless historical lessons about how content is actually created for new technology platforms seems wrought with hubris.

     

  5. Also, this is in no way definitive proof, but here is one source of the Electronic Arts rumor:

     

    http://www.atariage.com/Jaguar/faq/ (Last update: 8/3/2003)

     

       Announced Jaguar CD-ROM games:
       Title              Players  Publisher      Developer      Type
       Need For Speed, The   1       ?            Elec. Arts     Driving

    I feel like I have seen The Need for Speed on printed Atari Corp. Jaguar brochures, but I'm not likely to take the time to dig it out. So take it for what it's worth. Not proof or even evidence, but simply a source of the rumor.

     

  6. Mortal Kombat isn't on Jaguar. Is it?

     

    See below.

     

     

    Accolade was a supporter prior to launch, however (I remember Hardball! being one of the promised games). I could be misremembering, but I don't recall EA on the pre-launch list. I'd find it MUCH harder to believe that EA would suddenly become interested well after it was clear the Jaguar was an epic failure and to support an add-on that would be supremely lucky to gain even 25% of that already incredibly small user base. I don't believe we have any evidence of Atari paying EA or contracting/sub-contracting with EA (and Atari didn't exactly have much money at that point), so it just doesn't add up to me.

     

    Right. That's why I mentioned the Midway deal, which happened in 1995, after it was clear the Jaguar was not moving many units.

     

    I originally thought it may have been a move made by Ted Hoff. However, this press release from 1995 suggests that it was an extension of an earlier relationship between the two companies:

     

     

    'MORTAL KOMBAT III' WILL BE AVAILABLE ON THE ATARI JAGUAR

     

    SUNNYVALE, Calif. — March 13, 1995 — Atari Corp. and Williams Entertainment Inc. are pleased to announce that Atari will be publishing "Mortal Kombat III" for the Atari Jaguar 64-bit multimedia system. "Mortal Kombat" is one of the most frequently requested video game titles from Jaguar enthusiasts.

     

    "Letters have been pouring in daily telling us that gamers want 'Mortal Kombat' for the Atari Jaguar," indicated Sam Tramiel, president of Atari Corp. "We at Atari are dedicated to the mission of giving the enthusiastic Jaguar game players exactly what they are looking for and 'Mortal Kombat III' will give them the latest version of the 'Mortal Kombat' series of arcade hits."

     

    "Mortal Kombat III" is the third in a series of outstanding coin-op games incorporating true-to-life graphic images into a challenging fighting experience. Williams Entertainment Inc. is the home video subsidiary of WMS Industries Inc., the company that created "Mortal Kombat" and "NBA Jam" for the arcades. "Mortal Kombat III" for the Atari Jaguar will feature true-color graphics and all the sounds and action of the arcade version of "Mortal Kombat III." Planned release will be within the second quarter of 1996.

     

    Williams Entertainment already has other popular video game titles scheduled for release on the Jaguar platform. "Troy Aikman Football" is currently available to be followed up shortly by "Double Dragon V." Electronic Gaming Monthly says of "Troy Aikman Football," "... the Jaguar version is the best yet." Saturday morning cartoon fans will recognize the fighting lineup in "Double Dragon V" with eye-popping animated action.

     

    Other software hits being developed in partnership between Williams Entertainment and Atari Corp. include new adaptations of classic games such as "Joust" and "Defender." "Defender 2000" is being developed with three distinct play modes (the classic favorite, "Defender Plus," and "Defender 2000") for the Jaguar by Jeff Minter of "Tempest 2000" fame. According to Bill Rehbock Atari's VP of Software Business Development, "'Dactyl Joust' will bring the classic game alive as a first person perspective, fully texture-mapped Joust in a realistic, three dimensional environment." Atari will market these games for the 64-bit Jaguar system while Williams Entertainment will license and market them for high performance PCs.

     

    These distinct agreements between Atari Corp. and Williams Entertainment are indicative of the strong relationship these two companies have established. Williams Entertainment is one of the first third-party licensees to begin working with Atari on the Jaguar 64-bit platform and remains a strong supporter of the system with top software titles.

     

    This would seemingly reinforce your conclusion, Bill. But I'd like to point out that this isn't WMS doubling down or jumping on a sinking ship. These are simply IP licenses. Sam Tramiel had stated publicly that he was looking to spend the $90 million Atari Corp. had received from the 1994 Sega settlement. I still don't think it's out of the question that he would be looking to spend it on IP like Mortal Kombat III (which is proven here) as well as Need for Speed.

     

    IIRC, the Sega deal also included a 5 title/year cross-license between Atari & Sega. Sam Tramiel was definitely swinging for the fences into 1995.

     

  7.  

    Unfortunately, there were a lot of false rumors. I would suspect this is one of them because I would think EA would have little incentive to create a Jaguar CD game considering how abysmally the console sold to that point (<100,000 units, and then factor in an add-on with a rounding error for an install base). They probably wouldn't have even supported the 3DO like they did if they weren't investors, and even then they didn't release several of the games promised early on.

     

    A likely scenario would be for EA to license the game to Atari, who in turn would farm out the Jaguar port to another third-party developer. Atari takes all of the financial risk and manages the project themselves. EA would have to do absolutely nothing, other than send Atari some raw resources (graphic and sound data, source code from the "original" version), and sign off on final approval when the game goes gold. Maybe they'll check in on the occasional milestone. Apart from that, their hands are off--they basically sit back and wait for their royalty checks to roll in.

     

    It wouldn't be the first time this happened on the Jaguar. Many big-name "third-party" games were licensed by and published by Atari, and frequently had little or no involvement from the original publisher and developer. Some examples include Raiden, Pitfall: The Mayan Adventure, Myst, and NBA Jam Tournament Edition.

     

    I'd just like to point out that the deal with Accolade as the most prominent example of what Agent X is suggesting. IIRC, it was a 5 title deal that amounted to a significant licensing expenditure for Atari Corp. It's one thing to payout for the Alien vs. Predator license, and it's another to payout for Accolade IP. I personally don't believe Accolade IP was very strong in the early 90s - especially when you think that Bubsy and Earthworm Jim were released within a year of one another.

     

    It cannot be disregarded that Atari Corp. had a longstanding relationship with Accolade. Such a relationship may have played a role in this decision.

     

    Regarding EA - we're all familiar with those rumors. It would have been an unlikely coup, but not an entirely unreasonable possibility. While I agree with Bill that EA doesn't seem to have the incentive, I think the deal with Midway properties (namely NBA Jam and Mortal Kombat III) demonstrated that Atari Corp. was able to make things happen.

     

    It's worth reinforcing that the NBA Jam and Mortal Kombat deals came pretty late in the Jaguar's life, when the proverbial 'writing on the wall' should have been clear.

     

  8. Survival horror genre, you say...

     

    If you play AvP, Highlander, Flashback and Robinson's Requiem after each other you might get a combo close to that experience.

     

    Otherwise no.

     

    Good call on the latter two. I forgot about them as candidates that might qualify for the 'survival' element, even if they are missing the 'horror.'

     

  9.  

    It's not widely regarded as a progenitor, although I would certain agree that Alien vs. Predator definitely nails horror/suspense. Project Firestart (C-64) and Sweet Home (Famicom) are often cited as early influencers of the survival horror genre. Of course, I myself in the book Vintage Games (in the Alone in the Dark chapter, 1) cited games like Halloween (Atari 2600) and Maxwell's Manor (multiple 8-bit computers) as early examples as well.

    Yeah, thought I might get nailed on that. I started to mention Haunted House and then decided not to go down that rabbit hole and instead try to qualify my statement by discussing only the genre's contemporary form - which is almost exclusively 3D & FPS. That would qualify Alone in the Dark (3D world) and AvP (FPS) as pretty early examples.

     

    Curious Bill, what would you you put earlier than Alone in the Dark with that specific qualification? Regarding AvP, I could see a valid case made for Doom, but AvP's execution seems more in line with the genre's priorities.

     

  10. Never beaten any Jaguar game. I only got a console of my own about three years ago and never had the time to master a single game. I hope to maybe finish one or two as I play whatever's being reviewed on Shinto's podcast.

     

    If that's the case, and you have Club Drive (his latest podcast), you can probably master that one pretty darn quick. Not a lot there for 1 player; definitely best as 2 player tag.

     

  11. Top 10 lists on the Internet are quite common, but I've seen Alien Vs. Predator (especially in the marine mode) on more than one scary or survival/horror list. Here it is on Game Trailers, #4.

     

    I'm actually surprised no one said it right away (too many Jag game jokes to get through, I guess). I thought it was widely accepted as a progenitor of the genre's contemporary form, along with Alone in the Dark.

     

  12. I saw an interesting discussion in another thread, about how given limited selection when some of us were younger, we'd put lots of time into games that were not particularly remarkable, and after painstaking long hours, were able to beat them and be good at them.

     

    Is Checkered Flag a game that one could get good at if you invest dozens of hours? Or is the turning system so dysfunctional that it would be unrealistic to expect a human to be able to regularly not crash into the walls? Thoughts?

     

    I bought it new in 1994 and played it a lot. Your instincts are correct.

     

    You don't turn like you would in a normal racing game. Ease into every turn. If the turn deepens, don't press harder on the joypad as if you were increasing rotation of a steering wheel. That might be your instinct, but it's wrong in Checkered Flag world. You want to tap the d-pad in the direction you want to go. The game actually has audio feedback for this, the sound of screening tires.

     

    You know you're taking a turn correctly when you hear a rhythmic screeching of the tires: [tap] "screech" [tap] "screech" [tap] "screech." If you just deepen the turn by pressing harder on the joypad, you will definitely careen into the wall. If you tap, you will take the turn with ease.

     

    I know this all sounds ridiculous, but keep in mind I could probably still be a finalist in a Kasumi Ninja tournament if allowed to use Chagi and wear the packed-in headband. With these facts in mind, you might also be surprised to know I was desperately single throughout the 90s.

     

    • Like 3
  13. After playing a wood grained 2600 we got from a garage sale, I was pretty hooked, and wanted the 7800 that was on display at the Children's Palace. I hadn't played a whole lot of NES by that time. This was probably around 1987.

     

    I loved the 7800 and its pack in, Pole Position II. In the end, I probably played PPII more than Asteroids. I agree that Asteroids on the 7800 is excellent, and probably a better game, but I had more fun with PPII.

     

    I was a little jealous of Super Mario Bros. but the game that really made me sway away from the 7800 was Zelda. After that, Asteroids or Pole Position II was mostly a moot point.

     

    In total, the 7800 had a longer life (I still have it, unlike the NES) and ultimately got more playing time. I got pretty heavily into PCs in the late 80s to satisfy many of my other gaming needs.

     

  14. Sounds like the Jag Bar is attracting some high-class clientele.

     

    Loved to see you and your friend geek on some Don Bluth and Dragon's Lair. I could never get into the games, but I was always impressed with them visually.

     

    The latter is actually high praise. Other FMV games (which this is essentially falls under) are highlighted by poor acting and/or bad animation. The fact that this trailblazing game came together so well is a testament to his genius and the talent of the team around him.

     

  15. I never understood the Atari/JTS merger. It might have been good way for the Tramiels to get out of the business but I don't see how it could have been advantageous for Atari as company.

    Why did Atari not transform itself to a software company publishing games (not necessary writing games) for all kinds of platforms or licensed out its IPs when it was clear that it could not compete in hardware any more? Maybe with the merger they could drop support for the Jaguar unpunished while without the merger there would be legal claims?

     

    Robert

     

    IIRC, the stockholders had the opportunity to vote on the merger and agreed as long as the new entity continued the support of Atari Interactive and Atari licensing post merger. I cannot find that quote, however, so take it with a grain of salt. I did find this reporting:

     

    "The news of the merger could very well hold opportunity for Atari shareholders," said Chris Sherman, editor of Multimedia Wire, "but it leaves in question the state of Atari's video game hardware and software business, particularly the Atari Jaguar."

     

    Multimedia Wire has learned through sources close to Atari that Ted Hoff, former president of Atari's North American operations, was in discussions with several major Atari shareholders to take the video game portion of the business private. Those discussions subsequently fell apart.

     

     

    From Atari Merger Puts Company's Video Game Business 'In Play' in Multimedia Wire

     

    Followed by Atari's own 1997 first quarter results:

     

    In connection with the merger Atari has extended a bridge loan to JTS in the amount of $25 million. In the event that the merger is not consummated, the bridge loan may be convertible into shares of JTS Series A Preferred Stock at the option of Atari or JTS and subject to certain conditions.

     

    As a result of the transaction, Atari stockholders will hold approximately 60% of the outstanding shares of the new company following the merger. The transaction is structured to qualify as a tax-free reorganization and will be accounted for as a purchase.

     

     

    It's pretty clear this was the best move for the stockholders. 1995 was the pivotal year for the Jaguar. It was clearly failing by 1996. The only other option was to sell off the IP and turn off the lights outright, which JTS later did.

     

    A fire sale of Atari Corp. IP and assets would have probably yielded worse results for stockholders because Atari would have been negotiating from a place of weakness. JTS offered a shot at some buoyancy before any attempt to raise capital by way of any asset/IP selloff.

     

    The court case against Tramiel is simply him (fairly) leveraging JTS' weak financial position later on. It seems the court didn't find any basis of impropriety and the summary doesn't allude to the possibility of a more devious scheme. It looks much more cut and dry than Atari Corp.'s acquisition of Federated a decade earlier.

     

    ü

    • Like 3
  16. I'm assuming that by Pirate you mean Jaguar and by Ninja you mean PlayStation.

     

    Based on some discussions I had in the 1990s, I learned that the Jaguar just two 32-bit processors and 32+32 = 64-bit. The PS has five 32-bit processors, making it 160-bit.

     

    You might think that means Ninja wins... but when you add in the untapped potential of the Jaguar, I think you have to go with Pirate. Case closed.

     

    • Like 2
  17. It's such a shame that the Jaguar never saw a full release of a game like this done right, a la what was hinted at by the Native demo. Now THAT'S what we should have been seeing from day one, and THAT'S what would have truly blown people away and sold systems. Again, though, it goes back to Atari simply not having either the resources or foresight (or both) to see that through.

     

    Agreed but I think it's best to remember that Atari Corp. was trying to make the 'least bad' decision by 1993. Sam's Atari had shrunk from his father's profitable multi-division, multi-platform business to an endeavor with no living product on the shelves (both the Lynx and the Falcon were essentially dead).

     

    In the spring of 1993, the two options were to miss Christmas entirely and launch with better software or to move forward 100% committed to Christmas and figure out the rest later. Considering how important Christmas is to the consumer electronics industry, I don't see how you could ever go with the first choice. If Atari Corp made a mistake, it was over-estimating their ability to deliver enough units for the 1993 holiday launch, but I think that's a risk they simply had to take.

     

    This whole decision is exasperated by the fact that Corp's ATC stock was riding a wave of positive speculation based on the Jaguar news. If they would have missed Christmas, there is no doubt that Wall St. would have lost their minds and made everything in 1994 that much worse.

     

    Finally, it's good to remember that both the Commodore 64 and the Atari ST had successful launches with limited software support.

     

    I'm, of course, being pedantic with the idea of good software from 'day one' for the sake of discussion. :)

     

  18. Supercross 3D - you have been warned...

     

    I thought this was going to be my least favorite episode. I really hated this game. It turned out to be my favorite.
    I think your design assessment rang especially true: 1) It needs to be brown, 2) it needs to have dirt you can drive on, 3) it needs to have dirt you can’t drive on.
    BTW - Uganda is now sponsored by Mountain Dew. It happened after the 'Battle for Migingo’ between Uganda and Kenya. You really nailed your Ugandan dirtbike history! Sucked in the 90s, but they're killin' it now!
    /Schmüdde
    • Like 1
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