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About kisrael

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    HMBL 2600 coder
  • Birthday March 31

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  1. Interesting data point... I was reading "Pac-Man: Birth of an Icon" and they mentioned So that caught my eye in terms of this convo... http://www.digitpress.com/library/magazines/electronic_games/electronic_games_jan84.pdf is the magazine in question, it's a division for "Videogame of the Year" and "Best Videogame Audio/Visual Effects" and in practice seems to split Atari from Colecovision. So at least for some things, even back in the day they were thinking about achievements based on arbitrary techie limitations that you wouldn't expect non-techies to be aware of. (The divisions are a little weird. Miner 2049er was so dominant they made up a new category for it ("Electronic Game of the Year"). Then there's "Videogame Division" (console), "Computer Game Division" and then a combined "Videogame Computer Game Division" with some different awards, and then "Coin-Op Games Division" (arcade) and "Stand-Alone Game Division" (handheld/tabletop))
  2. I think that's a well-stated point; I'm certainly impressed but not that interested in the "wrote the book without the letter e" type stuff (sort of like the dancing bear- people don't talk about how well it dances, just that it's a bear that's dancing) so this is a good argument for not caring about adhered to limitations. I think the question it raises, though, is then why bother messing around with it on the Atari at all? Like personally while I'm proud of my Atari games I've had more fun with Processing/P5, stuff that runs in a browser and I can share (see https://toys.alienbill.com/ ) But thegoldenband kind of addresses this: I guess I'm a little more skeptical about "on the VCS in some meaningful sense". When I see Star Wars the movie playing back on an Atari- (see below)... I start to think we're not too far away from Quake on an Atari Cart. Now, to be fair, Champ games are doing things in a way that ARE much more Atari specific, it's a delight to read about some of the Atari Stella/TIA chip reuse, repurposing Playfield graphics and Missiles and what not. But since an arbitrary video stuffer could exist, what's the best language to talk about games that are in that kind of achievement space, vs ones answering the (to me somewhat more interesting question) "what COULD the *software* folks who just had maybe some bankswitching have done had they but known? Just how miraculously open-ended was this mid-70s machine to play TANK and PONG and OUTLAW, by itself?
  3. For purposes of this discussion, I'd vote no it was not. It's well known as an enhanced cart. Nor would supercharger stuff, even though that came out during the same era. For me the only question is 4K vs 8K.
  4. Well, since the conversation is going on again, but isn't getting TOO heated... I'll chime in with a new (to me) perspective. So, "legacy" coding and tech-assisted coding are asking two answerable questions; but they're unanswerable in different ways. Legacy coding (like, unassisted hardware, 4K or MAYBE 8K ROMS) get the question "What is the most impressive, innovative, and fun way this old hardware could be pushed". It's not an answerable question because it's a matter of opinion, but it's "bounded" in some ways. And great feats with these limitations are doubly impressive because they COULD'VE been done back in the day, but it took more recent (personal and support group) innovation to do it. (It's like how programming is so impressive because you can make anything by "just typing") Tech-assisted coding the question is... I dunno. Like "what's the most impressive, innovative, and fun thing we can make, but still funneling it through the A/V channels". But because the other side of funnel is unbounded, the answer to it is also unbounded. You only reach a limit when you start asking "look, why are we bothering to limit it through the 2600 funnel, if it's basically a full fledged modern system squirting A/V through that limited pipe." Maybe you love the details of that pipe, maybe you just love the idea of still technically "runnong on Atari". And while modern debuggers and emulators mean even coders in the "legacy" limits are more empowered than pros of days gone by, there are more barriers to entry or at least production - you're bringing in hardware. Question: what's the best list for hardware schemes (bankswitching and/or RAM and/or coprocessor)? Like when (regional pride here, these are MIT guys) GCC started doing Atari 2600 carts, IMO Atari went from lagging Activision to surpassing it, on an A/V standpoint. And now I'm curious, what kind of schemes Battlezone or Pole Position were, because they really blew me away back in the day
  5. Right. That's what this whole conversation is about! Atari 2600 offers certain more challenges to becoming a dumb terminal, but if we have some hackers putting entire movies like Star Wars into a cart? Maybe something that physically fits into a cart can't do GTA5 but certainly one of the GTA3 series, given that it plays easily on cheap mobile devices now. We are very close to a hypothetical tech that merges Star Wars cart "display whatever image you want, the atari is a dumb terminal" and "hey even small cheap hardware (that fits in a cart) can run GTA3" and we are asking, is there an ability to recognize that (astounding!) hardware achievement against an (also astounding but in different ways!) vanilla 4K ROM that bleeds every last cycle and breaks new ground on the 2600? It's absolutely a spectrum of achievement. Shades of gray. No one is "cheating" because the hardware and software hackers are playing different metagames, but we don't have the common framework to keep each to its lane and then compare games against their reasonable peers.
  6. Yeah. It's all about proper categorization. And transparency. I might agree that "cheating" is weirdly loaded, but some of these things are such different styles of achievement (and to an outsider all look like "well just runs on an atari) that sometimes it's good to discuss how we should draw lines and do leaguing, so to speak. Relevant: here's GTA 5 on a Gameboy https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2022/01/random-heres-gta-v-being-played-on-a-game-boy-yes-really
  7. (oh sorry didn't read closely enough, yeah I'm not sure about background color but Karl knows more than I ever will)
  8. I am not an expert at the kernels- I had @Karl G help me with the kernel parts at https://alienbill.com/2600/atari-background-builder/ (and so my imagination of what kernels CAN do is mixed up with what flexibility i built into the editor. But : 1 pretty sure colors are an option for 48 because there's time to change the color, but 96 too much is happening 2 i think they can stack vertically but yeah nothing horizontal- no time for the cpu to figure so much stuff out. 3 same for overlap - there's just not enough time. so you should probably work to get a little familiar with kernels in general, like maybe skim some simple asm tutorials like http://alienbill.com/2600/101 thst said, much of my knowledge might be out of date with the new hardware assisted carts, where the chip on the cart does more of the thinking. sky is probably the limit there but it's a different style than these kernels
  9. That, and a browser if you want to use some web-based graphic of music tools I forgot about this: https://alienbill.com/2600/bbkickstart/ I updated it this Spring to be Atari Dev Studio centric - but reading it now I think it does a good job setting things up, using a web tool to get a sample program, then explaining what the sample program code actually means. It might be a little less overwhelming to start with than some of the more comprehensive archives
  10. Fixed a bug where the height of saved projects was not being loaded properly
  11. https://alienbill.com/2600/atari-background-builder/ - I added support for the DPC+ kernels Mostly I stuck with "A few examples" - https://www.randomterrain.com/atari-2600-memories-batari-basic-commands.html#dpc_frac_rows @Random Terrain - is it worth me trying to stick in the asm language hacks for 88 and 176? I couldn't get it to work Here's where I tried to insert it abbPFbBDPC.bas I think that code is "right" in terms of top 6 lines, alternating red white blue red white blue, and with the asm hack I was hoping for this at the top: (err, ignore the gray bar) but get could that be related to the "DPC+ 176 rows and DPC+ 88 rows will not display properly without tricks developed by Lillapojkenpåön at AtariAge" thing you mention? Should I try and build some hints on that into the editor?
  12. Huh! Thanks for the feedback. So poking around - even with an upgraded firefox it works for me. And i can't see a float. Current theory: somehow you got some funky data saved in "local storage" (probably the fault of my program but still) and now it chokes when it tries to load that data. Quick experiment: could you see if it works in Firefox's equivalent of incognito mode?
  13. yeah that makes some sense. I have backburnered this but might try to bring it out to work on it a little
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