david.winter

I got the game from a US seller, so it's in NTSC. I know the colors change between NTSC and non-NTSC games, but I don't know if they also change between PAL and SECAM. Both PAL and SECAM use 625-line pictures at 50Hz, opposed to 525 at 60Hz in NTSC.

I'm thinking about releasing the ROM under certain conditions, for example once a number of cartridges will be sold. I really have no idea. I wish we knew why they changed the game display. I did not notice any problem so far.

Supposing the game is unfinished, it is possible that the programers would have improved it. However, the whole game fits in 4K, so why not leaving the cheat mode for the fun of it ? The problem is that even if you suppose whateter makes sense, we can't be sure whether the game is finished or not unless somebody finds some original docs stating so, or manages to contact the programers who still remember if the game is finished or not. It would be amazing to find the programer(s) and get more infos from them, especially concerning the real history of that game. We still don't know why the 3D version was not released. My opinion is that Rubik's Cube was the original name and that the game was originally designed in 3D (which makes more sense). For some reasons, Atari got in trouble and replaced the game with the 2D version. They kept the original title until they changed it to Video Cube for other reasons we don't know. That could be copyrights litigations, game features not accepted, irrelevant title compared to the gameplay, etc. If the game is finished, there are good chances that it be due to copyright litigations, since the crash didn't happen yet (as of 1982).

Hey there, Anyone spotted this awesome auction (I'm NOT the seller !) ? It's here: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...item=1948118531 Anyone willing to give me $1250 to buy it now ? Hehe.........

Sound in the game ! I also forgot to mention the sound "effects" in the game: A single (different) note is produced when you rotate the cube and slices. An amazing little song is played once the cube is solved. A crash-like sound is produced when the Solve option fails (cheats).

Therotically yes, but the program won't let you do this. You have to restore the colors. Even if you leave a solvable configuration that differs from the real one, the game won't work.

You're right and it's always the same damned thing. You take some significant time to provide some information, but they never manage to understand that you provide something accurate. They prefer getting more infos around, and put what THEY think to be right. If there was a law that forced them to publish corrections, I think there would be much more accurate stuff in the non-VG press (yet some of the VG press also put false things, but that's much less than the rest).

From what I read on the web, it does, but I'm not definitely sure. I just got to the page where you can get $8 repro carts. They have a page where they list 8 rare games per month. This month lists Rubik's Cube (2D version) and they say it has the solve option. However, I don't know how this woks, especially if you can also change the colors in the 2D version.

I don't know exactly. I can't really disassemble the code to determine if the cube is randomly generated or if the rotations to generate the cube are hard-coded (in which case they must start from a random position as I don't get the same cube each time I reset the game). There must be a solving algorithm, because you can rotate as many times as you want and the game will still solve the cube. The program will solve the cube even if you do 1000 rotations, so it is useless to record the rotations done to generate the cube. I'm quite convinced there are two color sets in cheat mode (just used to determine whether the cube has been altered before solving), and that there is a solving algorithm.

Thanks for the heads up guys: I forgot to talk about that ! You can't swap the colors. You MUST keep the original configuration to use the "Solve" option. You can cheat, rotate etc, but to get the solve option working, you must put the right colors back. If for example you put all the right colors back except two which are just swapped, the solve option won't work. The game DOES store two colors sets (2 colors a face). We have 6 colors, which takes 3 bits, so 6 bits per face. Total memory required is 3 x 3 x 6 bytes, so 54 bytes, which is more than enough for the 2600. The 2600 can also use the second color set temporarily for the cheat mode: a second color set is created when you start cheating. When you want to use the solve option, the 2600 compares the two color sets. If there's a difference, it refuses to solve the cube and keeps the second color set, thus allowing you to continue cheating or restoring the colors. Now, if the two color sets are same, then the 2600 can get rid of the second and start solving the cube. To use that feature in an relevant manner, the program needs to store two faces per byte, so a whole color set of 27 bytes. In cheat mode, 54 bytes would be used. In normal mode, the second set is useless, so only 27 bytes are used, leaving 101 bytes to solve the cube. All of this is well feasible, even with only 128 bytes of RAM.

Talking about the "video game" term, I noticed an amazing french translation. Univox made several games, of which the most common are the 41 and 61 models. Their box show a large "JEUX DE VIDEO" title, which translates as GAMES OF VIDEO !!!!!!!! This said, I must admit I never tried to find the oldest "video game" statement, yet I think a 1975 game shows it. Or 1976, can't recall exactly. Note that I only have the color PONG flyer, so if anyone could send me a yellow for the shipping costs that would be great

Even more infos in this message ! True, I tried the emulator too fast, searched for keywords (except F1) until I read that I could run the emulator without argument and press F1 for the doc. That's a good question, here's the answer: you can put as many sides of the same color as you want. However, the game will refuse to solve until all faces are put back to their original color. To test this, I changed some colors, rotated some slices and tried the solve mode, which failed and put a yellow background color. Once I put the correct colors back, the game would solve again. Therefore, each face has a dual-color memory: the original color (for solving), and the altered one. I couldn't find a mode to restore the original colors. Also: the rotations are not straight. There is a "slide" effect in the sense that when you rotate a slice for example, the colors will shift three between faces. Same with the cube sides when you rotate the cube. That was pretty much needed to see how you rotate, because you can rotate in 6 directions, and the joystick would let you do 4 of them. To finish, I think I was wrong in my previous post concerning the Solve option. I can't get it to work automatically, I think I did it by keeping Fire pressed to have the cube solving continuously. Anyhow...

More news about Rubik's Cube "3D" !!! I tried the game again under Z26. Unless I'm wrong, the z26 guys didn't provide a doc so I played with the keys to see what would change the game behavior. So far I noticed the following: Cube Solving seems to runs manual mode only: I couldn't get the game to solve automatically as I recalled, so I guess I kept Fire pressed to see the cube solving continously. However, this mode works in a clever manner. You can put as many faces of the same color as you want. However, the game knows all original colors, even if you rotate and change them. If you put the right colors back, the game will solve again. Else, you will get a yellow background color if you try to solve after changing something. Technically, the program stores two colors for each face: the original color, and the one you see on the screen and that you can change in "Cheat" mode. This said, I didn't find a way to restore all original colors if you change them and don't recall the original ones... But what the heck, you cheat at your risks !!!!!! Game plays in Cheat AND Real modes: I also noticed that I could either play in cheat mode (where you switch the colors), or in real mode where you can rotate the slices or the cube. This is done using player 1 A/B switch. Therefore, I think the game is quite complete, if not complete. It will obviously take a very long time until I play the game and see whether the 2600 does something once I have solved the cube myself, but who is going to play that long anyway ?

Forget it, we all happen to get confused someday. See how I got confused with this 3D game: I got it 2 years ago, thought it was same as the original until I saw a screenshot on this site last week and then realized that it was different (after what I dumped the eproms and made the shots etc).

To Rolenta: The out of context message was a quick mail to Ralph (NOT a denunciation) to let him quickly explain you where you were right and where you were wrong. I know you'er a VG historian and I was quite surprised to read your quote so I just mailed Ralph to let him tell you what was right & wrong. Hence why the message didn't appear here, yet I could have posted it too Basically, you are right in the sense that the first game displayed on a screen dates 1952 and preceeded Ralph. However, you are wrong in the sense that the first VIDEO game was invented by Ralph. None of the pre-1966 games used video signals, so how can we consider them as video games ??? Nothing against you Lenny, don't worry

There was NO "3D" in the title, as the prototype board had nothing written on it. The seller tried the game, saw the title on screen and didn't notice it was in 3D. Or he didn't knew the 2D release...

I found it 2 years ago from an ex atari employee, IF me memory is correct. Be both did not know it was the "3D" version, so indeed I did not pay $4000 for it. As for a picture: it came as a loose 2-eprom board, and there were no stickers on the eproms (yet it shows that there were some, but they didn't stick over the time). My father just got a new digital camera that can do short videos. I will try to make a short mpeg video of that game in action on a real 2600. Concerning the game: You can rotate the whole cube in 3 directions to see the faces. Of course, you won't see an animation of the cube rotating. It's a one-shot color shift. The "solve" option will solve the game by rotating the cube as with a real one, showing an arrow of the rotation used. However, I still didn't manage to try it again to see if I can really rotate it manually with a real 2600. Stay tuned and I'll bring more news sometime in january.

Guys, This topic is about the Rubik's Cube prototype, not those nonsense discussions about what is a video game or what is not a video game. Let me put an end to this VG discussion: you are getting confused with the original and the modern definitions of the term of video game. Back in the 1960s, were computer games. Ralph Baer invented the system what would hook up to a home TV set in order to play games. Because TV sets received video signals, Baer's system had to deliver video signals. Hence why this new invention (as of 1966) was called video game. What you want to tell us is that every game displayed in a screen is a video game. This makes no sense at all. Video game systems need to produce video signals. Therefore, the 1958 Tennis game could not qualify as a video game, but qualified as a computer game. As to what concern LCD, vector and other games that don't deliver video signals and/or don't use them, they are not video games IF we follow the original definiton of the 1960s. However, nowadays, we tend to call "video game" each game that is watched on a screen. This is just a mistake that everybody does. Those Asteroids and Battle Zone games were VECTOR games. Don't confuse. Those GameBoy games are LCD games. Don't confuse. The 1958 game was a COMPUTER game. Don't confuse. Systems that deliver VIDEO signals are VIDEO games. Got it ?

Hi guys, A few things in this message. 1) Rumors & such As a long time video game collector, I totally understand that you doubt about the existence of this prototype, and I should thank you for doing so because it shows how much interest there is in the 2600 community. So thanks in some way guys. I also discovered in this discussion that this game displayed more colors than possible ? Well, what you see on my screen-shots IS what I captured on my PC running Z26. There is NOTHING changed in the screenshots. I only took the 320x200 bitmaps to do quick captures and provide information faster. Those who know me can trust me: this is NOT a fake. The thing is, I absolutely HATE those lame ebay resellers who abuse of people's possessions, and enjoy reselling what they buy to make more money on people's back. For this reason, I don't want to hear about any ebay resale of this game. I paid to acquire this prototype, and therefore, don't see why some people would give themselves the right to "short-circuit" me and make the money I deserve. As I said, I WILL do cartridge because I want to share with you the interest we have on this game, but this requires some permissions (copyrights, etc), some investment in cartridge cases and such, and this will take some time. I WILL try to provide some proofs of authenticity to 2600 programers, but will NOT provide any binary image. Please understand this. 2) Hardware The prototype came as a small 2-eprom board holding two 2716 eproms. There is NO sarah chip on the board. Just 1 or 2 extra TTL chips for the chip selection (lower 2K / higher 2K). So, maybe this game wil let you discover another trick to display more colors ??? I hope so !!!

Hi guys, A few things in this message. 1) Rumors & such As a long time video game collector, I totally understand that you doubt about the existence of this prototype, and I should thank you for doing so because it shows how much interest there is in the 2600 community. So thanks in some way guys. I also discovered in this discussion that this game displayed more colors than possible ? Well, what you see on my screen-shots IS what I captured on my PC running Z26. There is NOTHING changed in the screenshots. I only took the 320x200 bitmaps to do quick captures and provide information faster. Those who know me can trust me: this is NOT a fake. The thing is, I absolutely HATE those lame ebay resellers who abuse of people's possessions, and enjoy reselling what they buy to make more money on people's back. For this reason, I don't want to hear about any ebay resale of this game. I paid to acquire this prototype, and therefore, don't see why some people would give themselves the right to "short-circuit" me and make the money I deserve. As I said, I WILL do cartridge because I want to share with you the interest we have on this game, but this requires some permissions (copyrights, etc), some investment in cartridge cases and such, and this will take some time. I WILL try to provide some proofs of authenticity to 2600 programers, but will NOT provide any binary image. Please understand this. 2) Hardware The prototype came as a small 2-eprom board holding two 2716 eproms. There is NO sarah chip on the board. Just 1 or 2 extra TTL chips for the chip selection (lower 2K / higher 2K). So, maybe this game wil let you discover another trick to display more colors ??? I hope so !!!

Errr, a typo... Atari Super PONG TEN is C-180, not C-160. Model C-160 is Atari PONG IV, supposedly same as PONG DOUBLES C-120. This could explain why I have never seen any C-120 unit (though I have seen it listed in a 1976 Popular Electronics issue). David Winter http://www.pong-story.com

Hey all, Having read many messages asking for prices, I thought I could share my experience since I'm a long time PONG collector with over 400 unique PONG models and over 750 machines including other non-PONG systems. Here again, BEWARE OF THOSE "NEVER USED" SALES. Most games have been used, and some are indeed very well preserved. This is not for such that these games should be listed as "never used". Therefore, "never used" in this list will mean "a specimen taken out of an unsold stock". Atari PONG C-100, Sears PONG: under $30 for a loose one, up to $200 if never used. Average: $120 boxed. Don't pay a lot for it. There is often one in excellent condition for sale on ebay, and there are definitely more of them than you think ! Atari PONG DOUBLES C-120 (NOT Sears): extremely rare. $50 loose. $200 never used. Average: $75/$100 boxed. Seas PONG IV: $20/$30 loose, up to $150 never used. Average: $50 boxed Atari Super PONG C-140, Sears Super PONG: Atari version is ultra common, almost listed daily. $10 loose (Atari), $20 loose (Sears), $100 never used. Average: $50 boxed. Sears Super PONG IV: $20/$30 loose, up to $100 never used. Average: $50 boxed. Atari Super PONG TEN (C-160): $30/$40 loose, up to $150 never used. Average: $75 boxed. Atari Super PONG PRO/AM and PONG PRO/AM TEN: RARE. $50 loose, up to $175 never used. Average: $100 boxed. Atari Ultra PONG and Ultra PONG Doubles: ultra common, almost listed weekly. $10/$20 loose, up to $75 never used. Average $30 boxed. Sears PONG Sports II and PONG Sports IV: same as above but more common and listed almost every day. $10 loose, up to $40 never used. Average: $20/$25 boxed. Sears HOCKEY/PONG: $25 loose, up to $50 never used. Average: $30 boxed. Uses GI AY-3-8500 chip, so it's not really an Atari game. Ok, I hope I didn't forget any model. I didn't include the Sears-only games since they were not made by Atari, except for the HOCKEY/PONG unit. Prices are based on my DAILY ebay checkings since late 1995 (yes, late 1995 back when it was called Auction Web). You might find some prices cazy low: sorry if this is the case but I don't put ebay prices !!! I never pay much for my complete/boxed PONG games, so expensive ones are indeed rare, and they are not many. David Winter http://www.pong-story.com

Well, there are two models: Atari Stunt Cycle and Sears Motocross. The latter has 16 PONG games that the former doesn't play. They are, in my opinion, worth around $75 in virtually unused condition (so absolutely complete in box without damages). I have personally paid $45 for each of them on ebay, and they are complete in their boxes. No styrofoam packing, but what the heck, they are indeed much rarer in better condition. Now, a small advice for the collectors: please avoid those silly high priced auctions where sellers insist that the games are ultra rare and possibly seen for the last time. I have been collecting since late 1995 and own over 750 machines as I write this message, and I can certify that Stunt Cycle and Motocross games are not impossible to find in excellent condition. Be patient, you'll pay less.... David Winter http://www.pong-story.com

Well, Ultra PONG and Ultra PONG Doubles are the most common models I have seen in the whole Atari range. They also exist under the Sears label as PONG Sports II and PONG Sports IV. I wouldn't rate them as rare. I paid around $20 for my PONG Sports II and PONG Sports IV, both complete in box and in virtually unused condition. Atari versions shouldn't be rated too high. About $30 each. Let's say up to $40 if sealed (beware of those fake auctions where the game has been used but "re-sealed"). Remember: there are VERY VERY FEW "never used" games. All have been used, and some have been very well preserved. David Winter http://www.pong-story.com

Radofin made several models between 1976 and 1983. Your model is the "Tele-Sports Mini", a hand-held PONG game in two parts. This is a quite common model. I do have one dated 1983, though I have seen others from 1977/1978. Note that this particular model has also been sold by DMS under "Tele-Action Mini", and Coleco has even sold it by sticking their label ofer the Radofin label on the box. This same game was also sold in the UK by Ingersoll, Grandstand and Prinztronic. So, at the end... a quite common model, but amazing for its shape. David Winter http://www.pong-story.com