EricBall
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Posts posted by EricBall
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Gods, I can't think of a single game which I put lots of quarters into. Probably because I usually didn't have that much to spend in the first place. Of course, with MAME I can put in as many vitual quarters as I want, which makes the older games which restart at the beginning that much more challenging.
Of course there are lots of games that suck. There are whole categories which I typically avoid (fighters, scrolling shooters). Unfortunately, those seem to be largely the ones which are in the arcades these days. I guess that's why I avoid the arcades and spend my virtual quarters playing MAME.
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Traditionally SC games are coded as #1. For Leprechaun I plan on using load #0 for the main game w/ the first level, then #1 for the first level, #2 for the second, etc. On a CD I'd probably store each level as a separate track. (To better support Glenn's joy2serial auto-load fob idea.)
One thing to consider is how the various emulators & RAMcarts handle multi-load games. i.e. for CC2 each load is a separate file with the load # as part of the filename, but for Stella & Z26 all of the loads are concatenated into a separate file. (Which means #2 probably won't work with either.) (CC1 will be just like SC, KK doesn't support SC.)
For your audio idea, why not just read one bit per kernel line? That's ~24 bytes/frame with a frequency bandwith of 7850Hz. Although it would probably be possible to sync the frame to the data, how would you restart the data stream?
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Even with those options you will need to do some pre-selection so you know what monitor orientation you want and what controls you will need.
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7800?
in Atari 7800
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7800?
in Atari 7800
At the risk of just another 7800 vs NES (or any other 8-bit console, for that matter) war, I'll refer you to 7800 compared to the NES.
Yes, the 7800 may have been superior on paper and in potential to the NES. Unfortunately, the 7800's superior sprite capabilities ended up taking considerable CPU horsepower. And the more sprites, the more CPU horsepower required, but also the more CPU time which the GPU would steal to draw those sprites on the screen. Meanwhile, the NES GPU didn't steal CPU time and creating NES graphics required considerably less CPU horsepower. Plus, the NES had much better background tile capabilities than the 7800.
Not to mention that Atari held back the 7800 release and scrimped on funding wherever possible.
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During the active screen the 7800's GPU (MARIA) HALTs the 6502 CPU and reads the Display List List and Display List from RAM and the character & graphics data from ROM (or RAM). Once MARIA has finished creating the current raster data, it releases the CPU. MARIA can also exert NMI when it completes a DLL with the Display List Interrupt bit set.
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I always liked the story of the pack-rat who was finally hounded by his wfie to cart off all the junk he had in the basement like empty boxes and pieces of rope. Of course, wouldn't you know that the next weekend he needs to send a package...
Fortunately, Tempest was a popular enough machine in it's day that the number of cabinets still in existance outnumber the availability of working guts.
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You might want to put something on Craigslist, rec.games.video.arcade.collecting, or arcadecontrols.com. I'm sure someone in your area would be more than happy to take it off your hands. I'd hope that you'd be nice enough to include the CP so whomever doesn't have to bend their own.
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Rather than developing a custom cartridge, I'd strongly recommend supporting the two solutions which already exist - the 7800 High Score Cartridge (which is emulated by the CC2), and the AtariVox/MemCard.
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Currently < US$200, which is a steal since the uprights regularly have BINs of US$1000+.
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Who the heck is talking about shape tables? I'm talking about basic drawing commands. You know,PLOT x,y Draws a dot at location x,y
HLIN x1,x2 at y Draws a horizontal line from x1,y to x2,y
VLIN y1,y2 at x Draws a vertical line from x,y1 to x,y2
Various points are filled in using routines like these, such as the stars, ground, and score table. Modern libraries (and even several on other systems at the time) have much more complex routines that allow for diagonal lines, filled primitives, and other fun features. (Which again, are vector in nature, but are rasterized to the screen.)
So the stars are bitmaps? The scoreboard? The ground? I find that highly unlikely.
Like I said, it's not true vector graphics. But I don't know what else to call it in comparison to the full sprite versions of the Sega and 7800 versions.
Umm... let me guess that you're not a 6502 coder and have never done anything with any kind of assembly. Any 2-D graphics library is designed to provide maximum flexibility, not speed. So it will spend huge amounts of time drawing a line point by point using Bresenham's algorithm, each point requiring multiple shifts to set the right bit in the byte. Contrast that with a simple load/store loop of a pre-rendered sprite from ROM to screen RAM. Or, even better, updating a GPU register or two if the console supports sprites.
There's a reason that games of that generation were custom written in assembly and typically didn't use BIOS routines for anything they could do themselves - flat out speed. Even a JSR/RTS (GOSUB/RETURN equivalent) on the 6502 requires 12 cycles. On the 2600 that's 16% of the time it takes for the TV to draw a single line, and the Apple ][ wasn't clocked that much faster.
Personally, I find it amazing the Apple ][ had so many good games with it's whacked-out screen RAM layout and color quirks combined with a CPU without any 16 bit address registers.
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However, could you explain the graphics modes a bit? The Frogger is certainly interesting, but how does it actually compare to the 5200 hi-res mode? Choplifter, Microgammon SB, and Mini-Golf were all very detailed vector art. (They were also ported from the Apple II, so it's no wonder they all used this mode.) Can the 7800 do the same thing?First, on the 7800, everything is a sprite or a character (which is really just a row of indirect sprites). The 7800 GPU (MARIA) reads sprite data from ROM (although RAM could be used, just not enough of it) based upon a list stored in RAM. So imagine a list for a set of rasters which says "draw sprite stored at $aaaa at X position A, then draw sprite stored at $bbbb a X postition B". Very flexible but not that efficient to update.
For actual graphics modes, there are two 160 pixel/line modes and four 320 pixel/line modes. (Although the 320 modes have are restricted to 160 pixel positioning and have other quirks, including color-aliasing.) The 7800 has a palette of 25 colors (8 sets of 3 + background/transparent) out of 256 (16 brightness shades of 16 colors). Sprites in the basic 160 mode may be one of the 8 sets of 3 colors + background. For the other modes see http://atari7800.xwiki.com/xwiki/bin/view/Main/GraphicsModes, although there seem to be some strange quirks with 320B & 320D.
What do you mean by vector art? I always thought SpaceWar! 7800 (which uses 320 resolution) did a decent job of emulating vector graphics. Microgammon SB & Miniature Golf simply duplicate the look of the B&W arcade originals, which were raster based.
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I've seen Star Wars Trilogy in a couple of places at least. You may want to check it out before you get your hopes up. I wasn't that impressed when I played it. For one thing the joystick sux - the auto-centering makes it very difficult to get very far away from center. The skill level is also very uneven, I cruised through the Hoth FPS but had difficulty with the Yavin & Endor levels.
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Where are you getting 256 bytes from? A SuperCharger game has 6K of RAM/ROM (plus the 128 bytes of system RAM). Or are you thinking of the Atari Super Chip which had 128 bytes of RAM mapped to the ROM space. CBS RAM+ and M-Networks had on-cart RAM.
The 7800 is able to show a lot more colors in 160-pixel mode than the 400/800/5200 really can, but the 400/800/5200 can have high-resolution sprites in front of a low-resolution background, something the 7800 cannot do.True, although the 7800 can change resolutions (via a DLI) on different parts of the screen. It is also possible to change between color modes on a per-sprite basis.
IMHO, the 7800 would have been a graphically-superior machine if instead of the lame 320-pixel modes it had simply offered a variation of 160-pixel mode where the left half of each pixel would be controlled by one color register and the right half by another. The color registers could have been programmed to mimic a 320-wide 4-color mode, but could also do 320-3 color plus 7 other colors at 160 resolution, or 320-2 color plus 12 other colors at 160, or 'limited' 320-2 color (e.g. white on black and yellow on black, but no white on yellow or yellow on white) plus 9 other colors, etc.My guess is that all of the graphics modes (other than the base 160A four color mode) were afterthoughts after they had comitted to the 2x800 bit line RAM needed for 160A.
The 7800 also has two line buffers. One for write (from memory), one for read (to screen). It does not, however, buffer each display list so must read it for each line in the zone.
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Can't help you much with the monitor I'm afraid. The gurus on BYOAC might be able to assist or point you in the right direction. I agree, if you can save the sideart, great. Otherwise make it as presentable as possible.
Unfortunately, many operators can't see beyond the bottom line. If something can be reused and save them money, then that's what they will do no matter what damage they have to do.
I'm betting that the vector monitor failed, so the op stuck in the cheapest game he could find. Heck, he even took the time & expense to retrofit the control panel (I bet it's the original CP with holes drilled in it) and marquee, then paint the sides and put on a sticker which matches the game.
I'd bet even the hard-core restorers on BYOAC would think that MAME-ing it would be an improvement.
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http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=6314.0
3M Safest Stripper
(I was fortunate that my sideart hadn't been painted over, just some minor marks and grime.)
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I've stopped reading wishlist topics because that's all they are. I've said it before, and I'll say it again:
As much as I would love to see homebrew ports of well known & loved games, wishing for them isn't going to make it happen. The only way any of these will be created is if you make them for yourself. No one else is going to do it for you because no one else has the same passion about your favorite game. So come join the fun; all you have to lose is your free time.I also agree with the value of making an original (or even semi-original) game. One problem with ports is they will always be compared to the original. It's much more rewarding to do something new which will be judged on it's own rather than being compared.
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I assume you are referring to the Atari color vector classic rather than the modern Sega raster game. If so, Jimmy's got it about right. (Although SW used 4 POKEYs for sound, which aren't that rare. But I'm sure that there's other PCB parts which didn't come from the Atari parts bin or off the shelf.)
IIRC the sit-down cab had a larger vector monitor, which makes it that much rarer & more expensive.
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Although Tempest is considered a classic game, restoring one is a fool's game if it isn't nearly complete (i.e. has a working boardset & monitor, and the cab has decent sideart). So you're much better off working (i.e. MAME) with what you've got and making the best of it.
Based on the pix on klov, LTFG is a single joystick game, so you could use that as a base for a custom one player CP. (I'd stick in a 49-way joystick & a GP-Wiz49.) Going back to the original controls (or equivalent reproductions) is an option, although it will greatly limit the number of games you can play.
LTFG is also a horizontal game, so you could either stick with that or go back to a vertical monitor. (I managed to squeeze a decased 21" Sony PC monitor in mine vertically, although I had to cut a hole in the rear door.) It's up to you whether you want to stick with the arcade monitor (might need a different video card to handle the low 15KHz horizontal refresh), or go with a PC monitor or even put in a TV.
Keep whatever original artwork exists. If the sideart has been painted over you might want to try to strip it off. Worst case you just have to paint it over again.
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I have a Tempest cabinet w/ the original controls running MAME on a 21" vertical high-res monitor.
I have started on building a 3 sided cocktail cabinet with modular controls, but I need time & nice weather to make more sawdust with my router in the backyard.
I'd love to build a cockpit cabinet with a Star Wars yoke for playing everything Star Wars, Spy Hunter and lots of other 270 wheel games.
And maybe a candy cab for Neo Geo games.
Oh, and pinball games. My wife would flip over a pinball game.
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I hope that you're not sacrificing some unique cab, but some generic Dynamo cab or something which has been converted beyond all recognition.
Anyway. First, do you want to have a dedicated game? Do you enjoy playing that particular game? If so, then you have two choices:
1. Find / buy an empty cab to put it in. Depending upon the game there may be some incentive to find a matching original cabinet.
2. Build a cab from scratch. Depending upon what kind of tools you have already and your skill with them, this may be cheaper than buying an empty cab. (Then again, some people seem to be able to pick up used cabs for cheap/free.)
You can weigh that versus the value that the parts (either as a single lot or as individual lots) on eBay.
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Get thee to Build Your Own Arcade Controls and see what people have done there. Even if you do end up later buying one pre-built, you will be an educated buyer and probably get more for your money.
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Would those be considered "cabaret" style cabinets, or are they shorter than that? Are they really 2-sided, 2-player games? Does the control panel have an overhang to allow the players legroom underneath? -Sort of like cockpit style cabinets but without actual cockpit seating or enclosure, seating to be provided by the location manager? Is there another name for this cabinet style?Cabaret cabinets are typically short upright cabinets without the marquee. What NE146 is showing are typically known as "Candy" cabs. They are typically made out of some kind of plastic and have massive 25-27" monitor (often rotatable). The control panel is cantelivered out and may be one or two player.
It should be noted that there are two popular cocktail cabinet styles. Particularly in Australia (and I think Japan) the main style is often referred to as "school desk" because the trapazoidal cabinet body is suspended between or perched on two chrome I legs. (see the KLOV entry for Space Invaders) In North America cocktail cabinets were more like wood cubes (see the KLOV entry for Pac-Man).
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7800/2600 dual-boot cart possible?
in Atari 7800 Programming
Posted
It's impossible to make a 24 pin / 4K (2600 style) cartridge which will execute 7800 code with a standard NTSC BIOS. From the Keith Henrickson/Daniel Boris disassembly: at $F8E7 the BIOS runs a full RAM test which fails because the 2600 cart is shadowed at $1800-$1F00. Once the cart is detected as 2600 the BIOS locks the 7800 into 2600 mode which disables all of the 7800 extensions with no way to put it back to 7800 mode.
My original plan for SpaceWar! 7800 was to leverage AA's existing 4K 2600 PCBs.